Enclomiphene, Superior to Clomid?

[AnabolicPitbull]

Is Enclomiphene superior to clomid? My friend was telling me it was an isomer of clomid that was better with less side effects. I need a PCT for my cycle and wanted to try it. I am taking YK 11, S-Drol, Masteron in my stack and there is another but I'm forgetting off the top of my head.
Can anyone recommend a protocol for me to take? I'm not taking huge doses.
I'm experienced with PEDS but I failed to use PCT for a long time.

 

[Whisky]

Is Enclomiphene superior to clomid? My friend was telling me it was an isomer of clomid that was better with less side effects. I need a PCT for my cycle and wanted to try it. I am taking YK 11, S-Drol, Masteron in my stack and there is another but I'm forgetting off the top of my head.
Can anyone recommend a protocol for me to take? I'm not taking huge doses.
I'm experienced with PEDS but I failed to use PCT for a long time.

the studies all seem to be from the last few years and although certainly interesting I’d personally want more data before moving from a tried and tested method (from the quick glance I had it seems to be ‘as effective in increasing testosterone with less side effects than clomid’ so superior only in the sense of less sides).

but my personal view (given it’s been used short term for pct) is to stick with clomid. We know it works and I don’t seem much benefit in switching in that context (if we were talking for long term medication of low testosterone that might be a different matter).

just my uneducated opinion anyway bro

 

[Hyde]

Why are you only taking DHT derivatives?? That’s a **** cycle for growth & hard on the body to boot without any estrogen.

Yeah it’s supposed to be better than Clomid but nobody ever seems to get ahold of it so people just use Nolva or Clomid or Torem because they work fine.

 

[Whisky]

Why are you only taking DHT derivatives?? That’s a **** cycle for growth & hard on the body to boot without any estrogen.

Yeah it’s supposed to be better than Clomid but nobody ever seems to get ahold of it so people just use Nolva or Clomid or Torem because they work fine.

I never even looked at the compounds - good spot

 

[Renew1]

I never even looked at the compounds - good spot

Did you look at the fact that he's on a cycle consisting of 4 compounds, but can only remember what 3 of them are?
... Blows my mind.

 

[AnabolicPitbull]

Thanks whisky, I'll take that into consideration.

Did you look at the fact that he's on a cycle consisting of 4 compounds, but can only remember what 3 of them are?
... Blows my mind.

I'm not on the cycle yet, I'm starting it in a month.

Why are you only taking DHT derivatives?? That’s a **** cycle for growth & hard on the body to boot without any estrogen.

Yeah it’s supposed to be better than Clomid but nobody ever seems to get ahold of it so people just use Nolva or Clomid or Torem because they work fine.

I don't know as much about PEDS as I'd like to. I ran my first cycle when I was 18 and got steady into steroids when I was 21.
My personal hero who coached me through my fitness/PED journey is now pretty much dead. I don't want to get into it but I've lost my fountain of knowledge and am alone and trying to figure out how to properly cycle.
I've seen sourcing on this site even though the rules specifically say no sourcing.
My cycle used to be purchaseable on ebay, it's an oral capsule from a trusted lab.
I am desperate for some advice and will appreciate constructive input.

Please don't flame me guys, don't be a fucking child on the internet. I'm intelligent and capable, just lost.

 

[Renew1]

Thanks whisky, I'll take that into consideration.


I'm not on the cycle yet, I'm starting it in a month.


I don't know as much about PEDS as I'd like to. I ran my first cycle when I was 18 and got steady into steroids when I was 21.
My personal hero who coached me through my fitness/PED journey is now pretty much dead. I don't want to get into it but I've lost my fountain of knowledge and am alone and trying to figure out how to properly cycle.
I've seen sourcing on this site even though the rules specifically say no sourcing.
My cycle used to be purchaseable on ebay, it's an oral capsule from a trusted lab.
I am desperate for some advice and will appreciate constructive input.

Please don't flame me guys, don't be a fucking child on the internet. I'm intelligent and capable, just lost.

When you get the name of the last compound, post it here.
It'll help for input

 

[Whisky]

Yeah that forth compound is gonna make or break this cycle. I’ve only just seen sdrol and mast are in there (yk 11 is largely pointless with sdrol in the mix)

im hoping the 4th compound is test tbh. Aside from trest (which if your not on trt is best avoided) is probably the only thing that’s gonna make sdrol tolerable.

how lean are you? Mast only really worth it if your pretty lean and cutting as it’ll give that dry look but doesn’t really do anything for muscle growth.

I only looked at the pct question first time round, need a full cycle layout to properly give advice bro. Hyde is bang on about that combo thus far

 

[AnabolicPitbull]

OH ****. OK, ok, ok.
DMZ 18 mg
M-STEN 10 mg
D-DROL 12 mg
YK11 8 mg

 

[Whisky]

OH ****. OK, ok, ok.
DMZ + M-STEN + D-DROL + YK11

sorry, for leaving that out. I'll get the doses too, I can't find it on the internet. I need to find the bottle in my nightstand. BRB

oh **** no bro. Seriously no. Don’t run that cycle

I’m assuming d-drol is sdrol but no, for the love of god (and your liver) don’t run it

 

[Renew1]

OH ****. OK, ok, ok.
DMZ + M-STEN + D-DROL + YK11

sorry, for leaving that out. I'll get the doses too, I can't find it on the internet. I need to find the bottle in my nightstand. BRB

Do you understand that this is Nothing like the cycle you posted?

 

[AnabolicPitbull]

Do you understand that this is Nothing like the cycle you posted?

Yes 100%.
Sorry, I guess now you can flame? now feeling incredibly dumb

 

[Whisky]

OH ****. OK, ok, ok.
DMZ 18 mg
M-STEN 10 mg
D-DROL 12 mg
YK11 8 mg

ju

Do you understand that this is Nothing like the cycle you posted?

It’s worse.....

all dht derivatives, nothing that converts to estrogen, basically 4 compounds that all do the same thing (dmz and sdrol are really similar)

you can only add so much muscle at any time no matter how many strong orals you take. Just pick one of those, add test (or a test base pro) and run that.

 

[Renew1]

ju


It’s worse.....

all dht derivatives, nothing that converts to estrogen, basically 4 compounds that all do the same thing (dmz and sdrol are really similar)

you can only add so much muscle at any time no matter how many strong orals you take. Just pick one of those, add test (or a test base pro) and run that.

^^^ what Whisky said ^^^ .
... And I HIGHLY recommend running everything past the guys here, as you get it ready to go.
... It's a good way to make sure you didn't forget something.

 

[AnabolicPitbull]

I'm not on S-Drol. My dumb ass meant D-Drol
Nothing that converts to estrogen, do I want it to? What is an example of a test base pro (assuming you mean prohormone)?

 

[AnabolicPitbull]

Why are these compounds sold together in a stack if they are such junk?
You would recognize the name of the lab it came from.

 

[Hyde]

Why are these compounds sold together in a stack if they are such junk?
You would recognize the name of the lab it came from.

I recognize the product: Punisher by Aggressive Labz. That’s not a UGL product and you can post about it here. It’s sold legally(ish) lol.

Super DMZ 2.0 with half doses of Mithras & Yk added for good measure. Harsh, sure, but you’ll be fine for 4 weeks with no other drugs or alcohol, lots of water & NAC, and a clean diet.

You still want something wet for better growth (IGF1), lipids (gonna take a big hit on this stack regardless), joints, and max muscle size.

Ideally you will use this in conjunction with a larger testosterone-based cycle. If only doing 4 weeks, add some Dermacrine or 4 Andro transdermal which will convert to testosterone and estrogen (amongst other derivatives).

I don’t really believe 4 week cycles are worth it if you aren’t already on TRT. It takes longer to get right with PCT than the time you got to spend on cycle.

 

[Whisky]

I'm not on S-Drol. My dumb ass meant D-Drol
Nothing that converts to estrogen, do I want it to? What is an example of a test base pro (assuming you mean prohormone)?

tbh d-drol just as bad.

estrogen is essential for growth and to feel decent. Low estrogen is horrific.

plenty of companies put out horrible blends because people see it and think ‘**** yeah, 4 strong steriods all combined must be better than 1‘ then they buy it and the company banks money. It’s all marketing bro, cigarette companies used to claim smoking was good for you in adverts.....

exactly as Hyde said, 4 week cycles are largely pointless and the risk vs return doesn’t stack up but running that combo for longer isn’t smart either.

run proper doses of one of those for 6-8 weeks with a decent test base (so yeah a prohormone that converts to test, demecrine, 4ad, 4 andro etc) and you’ll be much better off

 

[StarScream66]

So, getting back to the original question, Enclomiphene sounds like a very interesting compound, but it's still a research drug and hasn't been approved by the FDA, it's not being prescribed, and it's still in human trials. So, I would agree with @Whisky here and say stick with Clomid.

Enclomiphene Citrate Improves Hormone Levels While Preserving Sperm Production in Men With Secondary Hypogonadism

Use of 12.5-mg and 25-mg enclomiphene citrate significantly increased total testosterone levels in hypogonadal men, with an efficacy that was comparable to topical testosterone.

www.endocrineweb.com

Here's some info on PCT Clomid and Nolvadex for you, once you get your cycle in order from all these guys trying to help you get your cycle setup properly.

Understanding Post Cylce "T" Recovery

Understanding Post Cylce "T" Recovery O.K. You have been on an awesome 4-month cycle of Sustanon and Dianabol. You’ve gained a massive 20 lbs, and are extremely pleased with your results.

web.archive.org

Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation

Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation Editors Note: I am extremely pleased to have Bill Llewellyn contributing an article for us this week. For those who are unaware,

web.archive.org

 

[NoAddedHmones]

So, getting back to the original question, Enclomiphene sounds like a very interesting compound, but it's still a research drug and hasn't been approved by the FDA, it's not being prescribed, and it's still in human trials. So, I would agree with @Whisky here and say stick with Clomid.

Enclomiphene Citrate Improves Hormone Levels While Preserving Sperm Production in Men With Secondary Hypogonadism

Use of 12.5-mg and 25-mg enclomiphene citrate significantly increased total testosterone levels in hypogonadal men, with an efficacy that was comparable to topical testosterone.

www.endocrineweb.com

Here's some info on PCT Clomid and Nolvadex for you, once you get your cycle in order from all these guys trying to help you get your cycle setup properly.

Understanding Post Cylce "T" Recovery

Understanding Post Cylce "T" Recovery O.K. You have been on an awesome 4-month cycle of Sustanon and Dianabol. You’ve gained a massive 20 lbs, and are extremely pleased with your results.

web.archive.org

Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation

Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation Editors Note: I am extremely pleased to have Bill Llewellyn contributing an article for us this week. For those who are unaware,

web.archive.org

It is literally just the trans-isomer of Clomiphene (which 62% is the trans-isomer and 28% cis-isomer). The cis-isomer is estrogenic and has a much longer half life then the trans-isomer.

Weighing up the benefits/drawbacks of using Enclomiphene is that it is purely an estrogen receptor antagonist and is more "selective" in its MOA vs Clomid. There is no washout period for the trans-isomer (detected for 30 days) which can potentially still impact natural HPTA function.

Drawback is it will have less benefical impact on lipids without the estrogenic cis-isomer.

 

[StarScream66]

It is literally just the trans-isomer of Clomiphene (which 62% is the trans-isomer and 28% cis-isomer). The cis-isomer is estrogenic and has a much longer half life then the trans-isomer.

Weighing up the benefits/drawbacks of using Enclomiphene is that it is purely an estrogen receptor antagonist and is more "selective" in its MOA vs Clomid. There is no washout period for the trans-isomer (detected for 30 days) which can potentially still impact natural HPTA function.

Drawback is it will have less benefical impact on lipids without the estrogenic cis-isomer.

I don't know where you found that info on it, but I didn't dig that deep into it. I just saw that first study I linked which showed an increase over a 3 month period in T, LH, & FSH. Granted, it didn't compare it to Clomid, it was a study comparing it to men using topical test and was looking at sperm production, but still it looked like a potentially positive compound. But, again, just in real world usage, why bother using it over Clomid when you can already get it for dirt cheap from research chem suppliers? This compound will probably be more expensive and hyped up like raloxifene. Just use Nolvadex. Anyway, that's my take on it.

What does MOA stand for?

 

[Rockslide]

Enclomiphene is the stereoisomer of clomid. I think clomid is actually racemic and with Enclomiphene it’s the isomer that’s selectively binds to the HPTA and stimulates a surge without the other salts that causes clomids estrogen like sides.

it was in human trials and I believe showed adequate safety and significant benefit. It however got denied by the FDA and the company that was making it (fertility company who was making it specifically for hypogondal men that wanted to delay testosterone injections due to fertility) stock went to zero. I read an article that said the FDA was worried about abuse of it as a PED and didn’t feel that it was better a raising test than clomid. (As if a med that helps hypogonadal men have kids without feeling like they are on a clomid cry fest is a bad thing for the world)

 

[StarScream66]

#DefundtheFDA

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I don't know where you found that info on it, but I didn't dig that deep into it. I just saw that first study I linked which showed an increase over a 3 month period in T, LH, & FSH. Granted, it didn't compare it to Clomid, it was a study comparing it to men using topical test and was looking at sperm production, but still it looked like a potentially positive compound. But, again, just in real world usage, why bother using it over Clomid when you can already get it for dirt cheap from research chem suppliers? This compound will probably be more expensive and hyped up like raloxifene. Just use Nolvadex. Anyway, that's my take on it.

What does MOA stand for?

Mechanism of action.

@Rockslide basically reiterated what I said. But yeah the drug didn’t get approved.

Here is a quote:


“The FDA stated that, based on recent scientific developments, the design of enclomiphene Phase 3 studies was no longer adequate to demonstrate clinical benefit and recommended that Repros conduct an additional Phase 3 study or studies to support approval in the target population. The FDA also noted concerns regarding study entry criteria, titration and bioanalytical method validation in the Phase 3 program.”

Any drug which promotes androgen production will be an incredibly tough thing to get approval, given the stigma attached to potential for abuse. Doesn’t mean the thing isn’t effective though. The data is great.