ECA, ECAY, Albuterol or clen

jtbull

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OK guys.

Couple questions about fat loss supplements. I have ran ECA way back when ephedrine was legal in the 90s.

OK after I got back into lifting 5 years ago or so I started to lose some weight. I started at 400lbs and now am about 300lbs and last bf befor covid 19 was 18.5 at 320 so i figure i am about 16-16.5%.

I have used ECA and ECA Y again and have found decent results. I have clen but have never ran it and what I read about it seems like there is a science in taking it like 2 weeks on 2 off, 5 days on and then 2 days off and various other things with one ifbb pro on youtube saying he just runs it 60 or 90 days straight through.

Dont know the first damn thing about albuterol. Seems even with what is read there are various opinions and while they will differ here I have found the answer.

So what do you guys think of each? Particularly do any give less jitters but good results. I was wondering more if say clen is more effective than albuterol and i understand it us, how much more? Just a little or alot?

I am on trt and planned on starting my next blast this week but in china, where this started, people eating some weird animal instead of a cheesburger and using viagra to get the inch high private eye up. It now looks like i will be lucky if i can start by june and may only be able to run a test only cycle, but i will probably run one of the comments mentioned above with it.
 
HIT4ME

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Wow. Just wow. First off - great job on the 100 pound fat loss!! Second - how tall are you? If you don't mind my asking, are you natural? Because 320 pounds at even 20% bodyfat is just huge. Just insanely huge. I am skeptical but not here to call you on that, you have questions :)

Personally, I wouldn't do Clen or Albuterol. Albuterol should be slightly safer, but a lot of the data available that suggests it is safer IRL is also confounded by the typical use in humans - asthma. Most asthmatics inhale it, very little of it ever goes systemic, etc. Clen is probably safe for some, but it's a roll of the dice I really don't feel is worth it.

ECA on the other hand, if there is a gold standard, this is it. It has both safety and effectiveness data behind it. It works, it is unlikely to cause any long term issues when used within reason. Is it magic? Nope. But does it work? The science says it does.

Adding in the Y, if you can tolerate it, is not a bad idea. I personally hate how Y makes me feel. The insomnia for me is the worst. Rauwolscine works much better for me - but either can be a good/cheap addition. SNS Yohimbine or Evomuse Alpha-Burn are great options.
 
Smont

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Clen is a last resort in my opinion, that and t3. Stick with what you know. Just curious how tall are you?
 
booneman77

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Curious on that height too haha. Hyde is right that 300+lb at just about any height under 20% bf is gonna be a huge human...

I also agree that ECA/ECY is the way to go... especially since the cardiac sides from something like clen are a risk factor and with your dramatic weight loss I have to think that cardiac issues are already on your radar... Clen can be wicked to those with any existing issues.

For me, ECY is my go-to cutting stack as its cheap as dirt, effective as they come, and gets better over time... hard to beat that
 

jtbull

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Thanks guys

First off I say i am 6ft but some say i am 5'11". I have always been a big guy even before weights and i was always told i had huge legs. In high school i was called a "prep" because i wore the pleated dockers pants. Part of why was how my legs were and how they fit with my pants.

This could give some context on weight. IN high school i graduated at 240lbs and 5'10". I got into my first relationship and when we broke up i was miserable and would not eat and I think i got down to like 190 or 200lbs. In between going to my freshman year for football at a Div II school in Kansas after taking a year off as i only had a partial scholarship and my loans were messed up I went there and that is where i discovered weights. I did lift in high school some, but not like now and really new nothing about nutrition. In Kansas EVERYONE thought I was on steroids as i got "Really big really fast" after a couple months i think i was up to 220 and I had girls tell me when seeing me in a tank top "Damn i did not know you were built like that" as i was always kind of shy.

Way too many things occurred that I left there and transferred to a school in Alabama. There i really got into weight lifting and won some powerlifting comps and really hit hard and dieted while i was at home as that was while i could afford to be on a diet. My peak shape i left college in may at 270 and by the end of the summer i was 215-219 and was told 8.9% bodyfat. The trainer who did the calipers did take a meassure on my thigh with i had the teardrop and always had a "very lean back" You could tell abs were there, but more of a four pack than six pack. I was told that i possilby was closer to 10% likely.

so 17 years go by as that was my start of my junior year and after football was over I got into rodeo and was so sore i did not lift weights and did not against from 23 until 38 years old when i got to 400lbs.

Like I mentioned last BF % was done was 320 and i think it was 18.5% or 19% and I had nto had one run since as the trainer/nutritionist is a friend sort of and just does them. I am not a client so I do not get them often. He has won his weight class that would get him a pro card today but back when he did the various shows you had to win the overall. he is very knowlegable. Big difference is he does not take a leg caliper measurement.

As far as drugs supplements. I was totally natural all through college. My big go to supps were creatine, vanadyll and glutamine in the form of the EAS stak of phosphagen, v2g and gkg along with the eca stack. I used perfect rx- or met-rx 3 times per day and at least 1 shot of designer protein ( it had a better profile back then) When i was home in the summer my diet was anywhere from 85-90% clean with most nutrition coming from shakes, Egg beater omelletes with turkey and fat free cheese and chicken and rice.

I forge the age, but i think i was in my 30s and my wife and i were looking to have a baby and went through fertility. I had a hard time getting the "big blast" so they sent me to a urologist. Since i was trying to get her pregnant they gave me clomid and arimidex. clomid was 50mg x3 a week and 1mg arimidex everyday which crashed my estrogen. and i adjusted along the way. I got to the point where .5 twice a week got me to a good range. Test seemed to get from 200s naturaly to high 500s with clomid. Along the way before i got on testosterone, which i will get to about 2 years ago i did run a 10mg lgd and 20mg cardarine sarms stack for 12 weeks and a 1-andro cycle at 300mg for 1 month at different times.

Unfortunately we spent about 10k on fertility treatments for her and some iui treatments and we did have one miscarriage which still haunts me. The urologist said he would just keep me for test treatment Since i was with him already for low t. He said i had been on clomid for 7 years and that is about as long as he wants people on it so we went to testosterone cypionate. I did ask about enanthate but he does not use it at all.

My first script of test was 200mg every 10 days and yes i know that is too far between shots that was February 2019 I forget how my counts were but i know they were high 800s. I saw him in late September this year and I asked him if we could bump me to 200mgs a week which he said he did not have a problem with. I just got blood work March 24th this year and will be asking how to pass blood drug tests for my doctor as i dont want my test to come in too high. I did my last shot the friday before and then the next friday the blood work. Not sure how to upload bloods as i was going to ask for help with them as some are high
Testosterone level ( just total not free) 1229 HIGH. I was told this means i am responding VERY WELL?
Hemoglobin 19.8 HIGH
Hemocrit 59.7 High
HEPATIC FUNCTION PANEL was all normal ( i am guessing this is my liver things)?
ESTRADIOL 62 said it was HIGH

Now I quit taking arimidex at all back in like april or so, but how is my estrogen?
I have not donated blood. The doc did not mention anything major about the blood issues but i was told that donating blood would be a good idea, but i do know its possible that my hemoglobin and hemocrit accounts might keep me from it. Is there a way to lower it for the blood draw?

Now i have ran two cycles. Each one was in addition to my trt dose just so you are aware. I initially did not include them when i was figuring in the amount of tests i was on.

First cycle in was 12 weeks 300mg ( plus trt) of sustanon ( its all i could get) i think in april, may june months. I do not have my cycle calendar now.

Second cycle was in september after my bloods were drawn. I was then on 200mg a week trt and my cycle was approx 450-500mg sustonan ( had a hard time reading the syringes but did not go to 600). I had planned on running for 16 weeks but cut it at 14 weeks as there were some issues working out since i was traveling so i figured i would not get max benefit.

Hope this answers the questions people were wondering.

Now with this covid 19 crap plans have changed. Perfect world I was planning on counting my trt dose and was going to run 450-500mg test and 600mg eq ( maybe 500) for 16 weeks. I will probably not be able to do that now. The trainer at the gym told me deca will not blow me up as bad as may are saying if i keep it 300-400, but he did say stay off dbol until i am under 10% bf.

SO i figure assuming everything is back to normal and i get to the gym in middle may that i will use npp at 300-400 mg a week for 8-10 weeks and then 500mg in total for 10-12 weeks. Thoughts?
 
Smont

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You might wanna double check your bf, 16/17% bodyfat at 5"11 320lbs would mean you got more muscle then Ronnie Coleman in his prime
 

jtbull

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You might wanna double check your bf, 16/17% bodyfat at 5"11 320lbs would mean you got more muscle then Ronnie Coleman in his prime
I was more like 20% then and again I had a it taken by a professional practically. I wont name names, but like i said he won the weight class 198? like 3 times but could not win the overall. Ronnie also started out much smaller than me before drugs. i have not even had the chance yet. I am curious how much muscle i can put on . The problem is my wife is not very supporting of the drugs so i have to sneak some things. I am going to have to have growth hormone ( for example) sent to a friends and have it labeled glutamine peptide.
 
booneman77

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I've gotta agree with what Smont said... the bf and ht/wt numbers throughout your story don't make any sense... if you're really 320 @ 20% bf, that means you have ~64lb of fat and assuming ~25lb of bones and organs and such, we're talking 230lb of MUSCLE ALONE. At 5'11 w/230lb of lean tissue, you would literally be one of the most muscular humans on the planet. Figure most pro bb's (on umpteen steroids for how many years) typically carry less or very close to that kind of mass... I have to think your bf measuring bro is not very good.

100% the one that told you 8.9% when you had only a "maybe" 4 pack was not even close. Typically that's reserved for 12-15%.

I would speculate you're likely closer to 25-30% bf and even at that you still have a ton of muscle (which is great if true). If you can post up a pic, we could give a better estimate, but right now its nearly impossible to believe that your numbers are correct. You're basically defying the laws of physics ha
 
Smont

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Put this all aside, couple things I want to touch on. Hiding gear never goes over well. You either get caught because she finds it or because it looks obvious your on something sooner or later.

And gh on its own don't do much. Definitely burns a little fat and has some anti-aging benifits but not remotely worth the cost. Gh for some ppl is like a supercharger for steroids once your on them. But even some people on steroids get subpar results with gh. could be non-responders or also could just be because most GH is severely underdosed or completely fake.
 
Smont

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I completely missed the part where you said you were going on cycle. I gotta go back and read that post you made, I skimmed through it and missed a lot.
 
Rocket3015

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In to see where this go's ??
 
StarScream66

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I'm about to an Albuterol + Thyroid of some type cycle and I recommend Albuterol above Clen anyday. Read this article for all the information about it:

Hope that help,
-SS
 
Rocket3015

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I'm about to an Albuterol + Thyroid of some type cycle and I recommend Albuterol above Clen anyday. Read this article for all the information about it:

Hope that help,
-SS
Very informative !
 

Johnny86

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Regarding albuterol...does anybody have any experience with Theophylline?

I’ve got some salbutamol that also has Theophylline. Been weary of taking it bc I’ve read your serum levels have to be monitored bc of build up??? This true? Also I consume a lot of caffeine throughout the day, not sure how it interacts with caffeine?
 
StarScream66

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Regarding albuterol...does anybody have any experience with Theophylline?

I’ve got some salbutamol that also has Theophylline. Been weary of taking it bc I’ve read your serum levels have to be monitored bc of build up??? This true? Also I consume a lot of caffeine throughout the day, not sure how it interacts with caffeine?

Theophylline is not really a good fat burner. You are going to see mediocre to no results with that. It does interact with caffeine.

You can make yourself a coffee in the morning and add dark chocolate in and you'll get caffeine and theobromine, a similar chemical.


Although technically, it's a bronchial dialater like Clen or Albuterol, you would think that it would work, but I don't believe it have the same lipolysis properties because it doesn't target the B2 receptors like Albuterol/Clen does.

Mechanism of Action

Theophylline has two distinct actions in the airways of patients with reversible obstruction: smooth muscle relaxation (i.e., bronchodilation) and suppression of the response of the airways to stimuli (i.e., non-bronchodilator prophylactic effects). While the mechanisms of action of theophylline are not known with certainty, studies in animals suggest that bronchodilation is mediated by the inhibition of two isozymes of phosphodiesterase (PDE III and, to a lesser extent, PDE IV) while non-bronchodilator prophylactic actions are probably mediated through one or more different molecular mechanisms that do not involve inhibition of PDE III or antagonism of adenosine receptors. Some of the adverse effects associated with theophylline appear to be mediated by inhibition of PDE III (e.g., hypotension, tachycardia, headache, and emesis) and adenosine receptor antagonism (e.g., alterations in cerebral blood flow).

Theophylline increases the force of contraction of diaphragmatic muscles. This action appears to be due to enhancement of calcium uptake through an adenosine-mediated channel.
Source
So, as you can see from the clinical pharmacology of the drug, Theophylline acts on a totally different pathway than Albuterol/Clen.It works on the PDE III and IV receptors.
PDE3 inhibitors are indicated as inotropics for the therapy of acute heart failure if catecholamines are ineffective.[2] Well controlled studies have shown that these drugs generally increase mortality,[3] when used for the therapy of acute heart failure, so they have to be applied under close observation.[1]
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Rocket3015

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I am always amazed at the info available on this forum !!
 

Johnny86

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Star scream thanks for the response! I was really wondering more on the safety aspect of the theophylline bc I have albuterol pills with theophylline together. 4mg albuterol/200mg theophylline.
 
Whisky

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Hey bro. Late to this thread but couple of things:

- clen gives way more jitters than eca. For me personally clen is also more effective and I enjoy the jitters - but I also limit my useage to once a year for 8 weeks (2 on 2 off).

- never used albuterol but everything I’ve seen suggests it’s less effective than clen

- totally agree with the fellas above that the height, weight and body fat percentages are way out. Just being true with you. I lost 140lbs myself and loose skin is a fucker. You will have a lot more sub q fat than you think. Callipers aren’t great for us. You need a dexa really. I can have parts of my body looking 10% but other parts clearly not - my guess is loose skin could be an issue here?
 
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