Dropping mass in pct

[guoshuang]

So I just finished a 16 week cycle of sarms with test e, should’ve taken 250 iu hcg twice a week at the last 6weeks, but when I reconstituted hcg the solution leaked out and eventually I didn’t do last week of hcg protocol before my pct. Now I’m first week into pct and noticing muscle size loss, also some testes shrinkage, before pct my weight is 97kg now its 90kg. How is it possible for me to drop 7kg in a week?! Current pct protocol is 40-10mg nolvadex and 25-12.5mg enclomiphene,

 

[Smont]

It's not muscle, it's water and glyogen in the muscle. When you go on cycle your muscles supersaturate with glycogen and water and it looks like muscle but it's not. If your eating the same amount of calories you were on cycle then the only weight your going to loose during those first few weeks is the bloat and glycogen. What ever is left after you drop that bloat is the muscle you gained. Muscle absolutely cannot dissapear over night. It takes weeks and months of being off before you loose it all.

Average gains on cycle for a average genetics person is probably 5lbs of muscle or so. You might gains 20-30 and it look like muscle, but it's not actually muscle tissue. It's just a inflated muscle. Think about letting the air out of a tire. The tire will flatten out and appear smaller but there's still the same amount of tire there, it's just that the stuff that was pumping that tire up is gone now

 

[Smont]

Also, you need to eat and train just as hard in pct and off cycle to keep those gains. Don't let ppl fool you into thinking you need to back off. Maybe you might need to do 1 set less here and there but if you wanna keep the muscle you need to do the stuff that built the muscle. Especially with the food. Food=mass/weight.

 

[mTOR25]

So many people lose motivation coming off cycle and they stop being strict with diet and training and the facts are when you come off is the most important time to be as strict and consistent as possible!!!

That said your going to lose the intracellular sacroplasmic fluid that has built up especially if your diet goes to **** and you stop training as hard! You got to really push yourself when coming off in PCT!

I like to add in as many supplements as I possibly can! Creatine, taurine, glycol mono stearate, hmc's, betaine, beta alanine, citrulline malate, agamatine sulfate, and anything else that has been clinically shown to be effective you can try to throw in... BUT at the end of the day your going to lose intracellular volumetric mass and I wouldn't lose sleep over it! If you do the right things you will retain most of the actual muscle tissue which is all that's important. Don't get addicted to the cell volumizing effects of steroids or your going to end up unhealthy both physically AND mentally!!!

 

[guoshuang]

Also, you need to eat and train just as hard in pct and off cycle to keep those gains. Don't let ppl fool you into thinking you need to back off. Maybe you might need to do 1 set less here and there but if you wanna keep the muscle you need to do the stuff that built the muscle. Especially with the food. Food=mass/weight.

wouldn't you have to reduce calories during pct？Because with the excess calories of a bulking cycle you‘d just gain fat during pct

 

[Smont]

wouldn't you have to reduce calories during pct？Because with the excess calories of a bulking cycle you‘d just gain fat during pct

Reducing calories in pct is a terrible idea, it's beyond counterproductive. Calories are what maintains your muscle/weight. If you started the cycle at 200lbs and finish the cycle at 220lbs then you should be eating to maintain 220lbs. How do you expect to maintain your new weight if your not eating maintenance calories to support your new weight?

 

[Mikereyn513]

Reducing calories in pct is a terrible idea, it's beyond counterproductive. Calories are what maintains your muscle/weight. If you started the cycle at 200lbs and finish the cycle at 220lbs then you should be eating to maintain 220lbs. How do you expect to maintain your new weight if your not eating maintenance calories to support your new weight?

This! This!!! THIS!!!

 

[Smont]

Also, I should have mentioned this because many people do not know this. Adequate calories are required for hormonal production. When you go through PCT in a caloric deficit you make it harder for your body to produce it's hormones. When you don't have enough calories to even maintain your bodyweight then you have no extra cholesterol to use for testosterone production. The longer it takes to produce your natural testosterone, the longer pct takes, the more muscle you loose.

You need to treat pct like it's part of your cycle

 

[gphagan1]

It's not muscle, it's water and glyogen in the muscle. When you go on cycle your muscles supersaturate with glycogen and water and it looks like muscle but it's not. If your eating the same amount of calories you were on cycle then the only weight your going to loose during those first few weeks is the bloat and glycogen. What ever is left after you drop that bloat is the muscle you gained. Muscle absolutely cannot dissapear over night. It takes weeks and months of being off before you loose it all.

Average gains on cycle for a average genetics person is probably 5lbs of muscle or so. You might gains 20-30 and it look like muscle, but it's not actually muscle tissue. It's just a inflated muscle. Think about letting the air out of a tire. The tire will flatten out and appear smaller but there's still the same amount of tire there, it's just that the stuff that was pumping that tire up is gone now

I think this is the biggest misunderstanding in anabolic use. So many people really don’t understand that anabolics shuttling glycogen into the muscle is most of the size on a cycle, but if they understand that is a part of how it helps build real muscle. Along with that flood of glycogen muscle cells expand, nutrients are shuttled in, helping to build and repair, oxygenated blood, all contribute to building actual muscle. So many get confused when the water comes off, they think they lost their gains…no now that the water is out of the way you see what you gain. That’s why we preach muscles are built in the kitchen with food and proper training.
So it will continue to take food and proper training to maintain anything gained. Anabolics only enhance the fuel you add to your body and the training your doing.

 

[Smont]

I think this is the biggest misunderstanding in anabolic use. So many people really don’t understand that anabolics shuttling glycogen into the muscle is most of the size on a cycle, but if they understand that is a part of how it helps build real muscle. Along with that flood of glycogen muscle cells expand, nutrients are shuttled in, helping to build and repair, oxygenated blood, all contribute to building actual muscle. So many get confused when the water comes off, they think they lost their gains…no now that the water is out of the way you see what you gain. That’s why we preach muscles are built in the kitchen with food and proper training.
So it will continue to take food and proper training to maintain anything gained. Anabolics only enhance the fuel you add to your body and the training your doing.

Yep, if you want the most accurate possible way to tell how much muscle you really gained you need to go through a whole process of bulking and then cutting because even after that water weight drops off that is still not how much muscle you gained.

Say I start my cycle 200 lb and I'm 10% body fat and then I finish my cycle and I'm 220 lb once that water weight comes off, and I dye it back down to 10% body fat again that'll show me how much muscle I built. And you can't just dye it right away either you need to spend some time maintaining that new size before you go on a diet and get back to that initial body fat percentage. That's why when you see professional bodybuilders on stage it took them 10 years to add that hundred pounds of muscle, even though they gained 40 or 50 pounds and every one of their bulking phases.

You might see bodybuilder Joe schmo compete at 235 this year, after his contest he goes into his off-season and bulks up to 280. Then he goes into his maintenance phase and then he starts contest prep, at his next show he can teach at 241. That 55 lb he gained in his off-season left him with 6 lb of real muscle tissue.

The problem is no one wants to go through that process and I'm including myself neither do I. And that's why none of us make real progress from year to year. Because we're not doing what it really takes. We blow up on cycle and then we shrink back down where we started because we didn't go through the proper processes to make that muscle tissue stick

 

[Smont]

Sorry I was using talk to text LOL diet, not dye it*

Lots of typos in there, I apologize but I think you get the point

 

[gphagan1]

Yep so many see competitive bodybuilders and think they only got built like that from steroids. Wrong, it took dedication, discipline, and following a long term plan that takes time. Steroids were just a part of the process. That’s why truly competing in bodybuilding is way harder than most understand.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Yep so many see competitive bodybuilders and think they only got built like that from steroids. Wrong, it took dedication, discipline, and following a long term plan that takes time. Steroids were just a part of the process. That’s why truly competing in bodybuilding is way harder than most understand.

Oh my god I hate so much when people are like “I could do that if I took steroids”. Um, no, you definitely can’t.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Yep so many see competitive bodybuilders and think they only got built like that from steroids. Wrong, it took dedication, discipline, and following a long term plan that takes time. Steroids were just a part of the process. That’s why truly competing in bodybuilding is way harder than most understand.

It is by far one of the hardest things to do. The duration of the physical and mental grind is borderline psychotic. It's the definition of masochism. Most people can't even last 6 months let alone 6 years

 

[Mikereyn513]

Oh my god I hate so much when people are like “I could do that if I took steroids”. Um, no, you definitely can’t.

When I hear that now I just laugh. Like you couldn't be anymore ignorant than that. I've said thus before I've offered to pay for someone's cycle and then the excuses come flying out. I'll be like but you said you could like like me if you had what I had well I have a vial of test a vial of deca and about 3 weeks worth of anadrol right here in my gym bag so what's up

 

[match]

When I hear that now I just laugh. Like you couldn't be anymore ignorant than that. I've said thus before I've offered to pay for someone's cycle and then the excuses come flying out. I'll be like but you said you could like like me if you had what I had well I have a vial of test a vial of deca and about 3 weeks worth of anadrol right here in my gym bag so what's up

That's awesome man.

 

[KvanH]

When I hear that now I just laugh. Like you couldn't be anymore ignorant than that. I've said thus before I've offered to pay for someone's cycle and then the excuses come flying out. I'll be like but you said you could like like me if you had what I had well I have a vial of test a vial of deca and about 3 weeks worth of anadrol right here in my gym bag so what's up

I'm ready to try. Where your gym bag at?

 

[gphagan1]

I'm ready to try. Where your gym bag at?

Yep, might as well give it a shot since the offers on the table……All in the name of science of course.

 

[Smont]

Yep, might as well give it a shot since the offers on the table……All in the name of science of course.

What are we trying? I missed it. LSD, DMT?

 

[gphagan1]

When I hear that now I just laugh. Like you couldn't be anymore ignorant than that. I've said thus before I've offered to pay for someone's cycle and then the excuses come flying out. I'll be like but you said you could like like me if you had what I had well I have a vial of test a vial of deca and about 3 weeks worth of anadrol right here in my gym bag so what's up

What are we trying? I missed it. LSD, DMT?

Mike’s offer.

 

[KvanH]

What are we trying? I missed it. LSD, DMT?

Those + Anadrol + max squat

 

[Gandalfthegreg]

Those + Anadrol + max squat

LSD+Anadrol+Squat= Cures Cancer/AIDS/ and the clap

 

[Wobmarvel]

On the subject of still working out as hard. I have found that recovery ability definitely takes a hit. I've only ever done oral cycles but I discovered that if I was training 6 days a week on cycle then I needed to back off to a three on one off or a 4 day a week split. Still train balls to the wall but extra days off to recover. I would start to feel overtrained after a couple of weeks. Could be a placebo effect from knowing I was no longer on anything but I would definitely be able to maintain what I had easier with extra rest days. Diet remains 90% of the work though.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I'm ready to try. Where your gym bag at?

Doesn't count you've done gear and don't claim nonsense lol..I like your tenacity tho lol

 

[Mikereyn513]

LSD+Anadrol+Squat= Cures Cancer/AIDS/ and the clap

Not gonna lie doing a speedball with anadrol is the best pre-workout I've ever done...man the days of being an amateur bodybuilder in san Diego lol

 

[Smont]

Not gonna lie doing a speedball with anadrol is the best pre-workout I've ever done...man the days of being an amateur bodybuilder in san Diego lol

Yeah it's great if you don't have a heart attack LOL

 

[Jeremyk1]

Doesn't count you've done gear and don't claim nonsense lol..I like your tenacity tho lol

Wait, we can’t all just share your stash? Damn.

 

[brofessorx]

It's not muscle, it's water and glyogen in the muscle. When you go on cycle your muscles supersaturate with glycogen and water and it looks like muscle but it's not. If your eating the same amount of calories you were on cycle then the only weight your going to loose during those first few weeks is the bloat and glycogen. What ever is left after you drop that bloat is the muscle you gained. Muscle absolutely cannot dissapear over night. It takes weeks and months of being off before you loose it all.

Average gains on cycle for a average genetics person is probably 5lbs of muscle or so. You might gains 20-30 and it look like muscle, but it's not actually muscle tissue. It's just a inflated muscle. Think about letting the air out of a tire. The tire will flatten out and appear smaller but there's still the same amount of tire there, it's just that the stuff that was pumping that tire up is gone now

All correct.
Wanna look bigger? loose body fat.
Then your muscles will appear full and round.

 

[Mikereyn513]

All correct.
Wanna look bigger? loose body fat.
Then your muscles will appear full and round.

So true I've gotten more comments about how big I've been getting over the last 3 weeks right when I started to do cardio. I haven't even dropped my carbs yet