jtterrible
Active member
The 5x5's are progressive sets. Due to a possible strain in my lower abdominal strain I will be doing lower weights with the squats/deads until I have recouped. 5 minute cardio at the start of each day.
Drew up a new routine, comments? critique?
- Thread starter jtterrible
- Start date
The 5x5's are progressive sets. Due to a possible strain in my lower abdominal strain I will be doing lower weights with the squats/deads until I have recouped. 5 minute cardio at the start of each day.
jtterrible
Active member
is it balanced enough?.. or am I hitting too much?.. too many reps??
jtterrible
Active member
that's what I was thinking.. but with the progressions it would stress more weight on each group.. so I'm not sure..
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Too much direct arm work.
Not enough pulling work.
Poor leg exercise selection (squats last, deadlifts right after squats). Where is the hamstring work: rumanian deadlifts
Would like to see more bilateral exercises (dumbbell work, single leg squat work).
Need to work the core, external shoulder rotators, scapula retracters/depressors, hip abductors, etc.
Br
Not enough pulling work.
Poor leg exercise selection (squats last, deadlifts right after squats). Where is the hamstring work: rumanian deadlifts
Would like to see more bilateral exercises (dumbbell work, single leg squat work).
Need to work the core, external shoulder rotators, scapula retracters/depressors, hip abductors, etc.
Br
jtterrible
Active member
Which day needs more pulling?
did you mean Unilateral movements?.. because I have more Bilateral movements than Unilateral in here
Aren't the scapula retractors/depressors worked during the Rowing movements?
Abs would be core thought.. it's more than crunches I do a variation on the Ab Ripper X routine.
Thank you for the input
I appreciate it. here is the revision.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Yes, unilateral, sorry. Been a long day.
You have 7-8 pushing movements between chest presses/flyes and over head presses/dips/lateral raises.
However, you only have 4 pulling movements.
You need more middle trapezius/rhomboid and rear delts to balance all this out. Right now your back work is very lat/teres dominated. While the rowing will work these areas, more is needed to balance out the scapula protraction movements.
Wide overhand grip rows to the chest keeping the elbows out will take care of a majority of it. Some face pulls or band pulls will be good too.
For the lower trapezius scapula depressions and scapations will work. 2-3 sets of each once or twice a week.
Finally, you should be doing external rotations to balance out all the internal rotator (pecs and lats) work at the shoulder joint. 2 sets of 12-15 reps 2-3x a week with resistance bands or a cable.
There is a lot more to your core than your abdominals. In fact, the majority of abdominal movements done in teh bodybuilding community actually work the hip flexors and if not matched with hip flexor stretching and glute activation, will do more harm then good. Add in some medicine ball slams, side med ball slams, wood choppers/other rotational, as well as bridging work to work the local core.
Finally, I think performing leg extensions before your large movements on a regular basis will do more harm then good. You will not be able to handle as much weight, and will not reap the same benefits (over load and the hormonal response) from these large movements such as squats. I still think you would be better off to choose 1-2 major leg exercises (squats and rdl type movement) and do those first with 5 or 6 sets, then fill in the rest with 2-3 sets of unilateral movements.
Thanks for being open to constructive criticism..its refreshing to haveone someone ask for advice then not become defensive and condescending when they aren't told exactly what they want to hear.
br
You have 7-8 pushing movements between chest presses/flyes and over head presses/dips/lateral raises.
However, you only have 4 pulling movements.
You need more middle trapezius/rhomboid and rear delts to balance all this out. Right now your back work is very lat/teres dominated. While the rowing will work these areas, more is needed to balance out the scapula protraction movements.
Wide overhand grip rows to the chest keeping the elbows out will take care of a majority of it. Some face pulls or band pulls will be good too.
For the lower trapezius scapula depressions and scapations will work. 2-3 sets of each once or twice a week.
Finally, you should be doing external rotations to balance out all the internal rotator (pecs and lats) work at the shoulder joint. 2 sets of 12-15 reps 2-3x a week with resistance bands or a cable.
There is a lot more to your core than your abdominals. In fact, the majority of abdominal movements done in teh bodybuilding community actually work the hip flexors and if not matched with hip flexor stretching and glute activation, will do more harm then good. Add in some medicine ball slams, side med ball slams, wood choppers/other rotational, as well as bridging work to work the local core.
Finally, I think performing leg extensions before your large movements on a regular basis will do more harm then good. You will not be able to handle as much weight, and will not reap the same benefits (over load and the hormonal response) from these large movements such as squats. I still think you would be better off to choose 1-2 major leg exercises (squats and rdl type movement) and do those first with 5 or 6 sets, then fill in the rest with 2-3 sets of unilateral movements.
Thanks for being open to constructive criticism..its refreshing to haveone someone ask for advice then not become defensive and condescending when they aren't told exactly what they want to hear.
br
jtterrible
Active member
so I should add a wide grip cable row and perhaps a standing barbel row to back day. And you think I should cut the reps from the 5x5 progression and just do a 3x5 or perhaps a 5/3/1?
and move the leg extensions to after the large movements? perhaps, if you find time, could you pm me a variation of my workout that you think would be balanced enough, but with explanations of the changes. I just am here to learn more, you really seem to know what you're talking about and I'm glad to have you helping
It'd be stupid to post a routine with requests for pointers if you already think it's perfect and are determined to defend it to the death lol..
and the chin ups on Bi day because they use more Bicep involvement and I'm hoping I recover enough to do the pull ups the following day. Else I might just need to swap the days around like back monday tri's/delts tuesday chest/bi's thursday and legs friday. I'd rather not use a large group of muscles like that and a small group on the same day because of how much it taxes your whole system.. back day, if done right, is really taxing on my your body.
and move the leg extensions to after the large movements? perhaps, if you find time, could you pm me a variation of my workout that you think would be balanced enough, but with explanations of the changes. I just am here to learn more, you really seem to know what you're talking about and I'm glad to have you helping
It'd be stupid to post a routine with requests for pointers if you already think it's perfect and are determined to defend it to the death lol..
and the chin ups on Bi day because they use more Bicep involvement and I'm hoping I recover enough to do the pull ups the following day. Else I might just need to swap the days around like back monday tri's/delts tuesday chest/bi's thursday and legs friday. I'd rather not use a large group of muscles like that and a small group on the same day because of how much it taxes your whole system.. back day, if done right, is really taxing on my your body.
rankbull
Member
Pretty much all basic/foundation bodybuilding exercises are either a push or a pull. I like to think of my split more as a push day (chest/tri's), pull day (back/bi's), and a leg/shoulder day. Then when I get tired of it, I switch it up for only a short period. Then go back to the same basic concept because I believe it's really the right way to workout (and because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to)...
Try to build your routine around these concepts. Biceps on chest day?? That's almost unheard of where I'm from, but hey, to each his own I guess...
jtterrible
Active member
The problem I've had with trainer's is that each has their own bias as to what has worked for them. They then use it on their clients and it works as well, but they don't seem to look into alternatives because of the whole "if it's not broke don't fix it" thing. They may have a point, but other things work just as well and they haven't really ventured out of the box. Some do, but most don't and have great understanding in the thing they love, but little in other fields of training.
I've been doing chest/bi split for a few months and I love the pumps I'm getting. I've never read much on a push/pull split base, but I will now thank you. lol.
I like my split a lot actually I've gotten great gains on the Blood and Guts routine, but now I hit a wall and I need to change up a bit so I figured I'd try on my own. I am aiming for Mass more than strength, but strength is nice too.
rankbull
Member
I agree that if you're looking for definition and mass, a more mixed routine is better... And, I've been looking at that blood and guts routine for my next mix-up, I really like the way it's set up and think it would be good for a post-bulk workout regime.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Via personal experience, experience working with 100's of clients, reading what others have talked about, and by reading and critiquing of primary scientific research, i suggest each muscle should be trained at least once every 5 days.
There are several ways to do this, but I think the easiest is through an upper/lower split, emphasizing one movement plane on one day and another on the other day.
For example:
Lower 1: Squat emphasis (5x5), squat ancillary 1 (pitcher squat or split squat) 3x8, squat ancillary 2 (single leg rumanian deadlift, lying leg curl alternating legs) 3x10, core and stabilizer work
Upper 1: Vertical Emphasis: Over head press and pull ups (5x5 ish), shrugs (3x5ish), horizontal ancillary work (resisted push ups and supine rows), shoulder ancillary work (rotator cuff, lateral rasies,scapula depressions)
Lower 2: Deadlift emphasis (5x5), deadlift ancillary 1 (lunges, either traveling or stationary) 3x8-10, deadlift ancillary 2 (glute ham raise, glute hip barbell bridge, hip pull through) 3x10, core and stabilizer work
Upper 2: Horizontal emphasis: chest press and bent over barbell/t-bar rows (over hand grip) 5x5, vertical ancillary work (pull downs, single arm Over head presses) 3x8, shoulder ancillary work (scaptions, external rotations, face pulls, etc.) 3 x12
Br
There are several ways to do this, but I think the easiest is through an upper/lower split, emphasizing one movement plane on one day and another on the other day.
For example:
Lower 1: Squat emphasis (5x5), squat ancillary 1 (pitcher squat or split squat) 3x8, squat ancillary 2 (single leg rumanian deadlift, lying leg curl alternating legs) 3x10, core and stabilizer work
Upper 1: Vertical Emphasis: Over head press and pull ups (5x5 ish), shrugs (3x5ish), horizontal ancillary work (resisted push ups and supine rows), shoulder ancillary work (rotator cuff, lateral rasies,scapula depressions)
Lower 2: Deadlift emphasis (5x5), deadlift ancillary 1 (lunges, either traveling or stationary) 3x8-10, deadlift ancillary 2 (glute ham raise, glute hip barbell bridge, hip pull through) 3x10, core and stabilizer work
Upper 2: Horizontal emphasis: chest press and bent over barbell/t-bar rows (over hand grip) 5x5, vertical ancillary work (pull downs, single arm Over head presses) 3x8, shoulder ancillary work (scaptions, external rotations, face pulls, etc.) 3 x12
Br
jtterrible
Active member
well... without scrapping my whole routine.. ?.. lol
jlm25
New member
I don't feel like it is very valid to say that it is the "right way" to work out. I do not see the point in training triceps on chest day nor biceps on back day. If you've done 3-4 chest exercises and did them to the maximum capability. Then your triceps are going to be completely burnt out. How are they suppose to grow? Beating a dead horse doesn't do much.
jtterrible
Active member
so I guess that I'll be doing the revision of it... wish me luck.. this will be intense
rankbull
Member
I think you misunderstood me a bit.
Chest/tri's or Back/bi's is different for me than a chest AND tri routine or a back AND bi routine. A back/bi routine means (for me) training both muscle groups at the same time with different compound exercises. I am a firm believer that targeting muscle groups as a whole is MUCH more efficient than targeting certain muscle groups individually.
If you train your back/bi's with a routine involving barbell rows, deads, lat pulldowns, t-bar wide/narrow grip etc... and you still have enough strength at the end to do some curls your either not lifting enough weight or you have incorrect form...
Why are you worried this kind of routine will "burn out" your muscles so badly? It does exactly that and that's why it works.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Yes! You got it. It's about training movements not muscles. This is a major concept in most advanced bodybuilding/strength routines and a staple of collegiate and professional strength coaches, as you eluded to earlier saying: "because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to"
.
I would actually argue the opposite. Yes, biceps play a role in those movements, however, if they are "burned out" after, you may not be pulling with the back musculature (lats, teres, traps and rhomboids), but rather the limbs (biceps, brachialis, brachiodoralis, etc.). This is not to say the arms do not get heavily worked, but you should still be able to manage a few sets of curls after..which in fact, is all you need.
Or...you are just poorly conditioned.
Br
rankbull
Member
What I'm trying to say is, why finish with curls when you can finish with close-grip underhand pull-ups or close-grip seated cable rows?
Curls => GTL
ZiR RED
Well-known member
hahaha...agreed