ax1
Legend
Well, he did have some of the best doctors on the planet and full access to all kinds of patients with Russian agents pointing a gun to their heads while they were treating him.
Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
- Start date
Well, he did have some of the best doctors on the planet and full access to all kinds of patients with Russian agents pointing a gun to their heads while they were treating him.
ax1
Legend
Your twisting what some of us (well, Im speaking for myself from here and forward) are saying. Its not that we dont care, some of us think its a responsibility to protect individual rights that may never be recovered again and also feel the "cures" are worse than the problem. Some of us are also providing pro-active solutions to combating the virus, so its truly not that we dont care. Also there is a very legitimate point that this isnt the dark ages and bubonic plauge, its not. Its a problem is shyt in hell no is a true "crisis."
dixonk
Well-known member
Well that’s on top of the fact that there was a 99.9% chance he survived.
ax1
Legend
Its not at all, why havent you been going apeshyt over the 18,000 children that just died today? Why are then not even up for a discussion when it comes having dialogue about the real current crisis?
I dont want anybody to die, but lets not be naive here. Someone probably just slit their wrists and bled to death because their job was shut down by government and the wife left or is dead on the street from a heroin overdose because they lost their homes and fell into a deep depression.
You dont prevent death by creating another crisis, a artificial crisis that can have far more negative impact to people and life than the one politicians are pretending to solve.
Jiigzz
Legend
How weird, that's the same % of chance Biden has of being President. Sounds like fate
ax1
Legend
247,000 people wished they could upvote this
Thats 13 days of children that could have been saved but people are too self centered and ignorant to care about and go along with the crisis their puppet masters tell them to worry about.
Iwilleattuna
Well-known member
Ah yes, the videos are the beacons of truth
Why are they being taken down than? Obviously trying to hide the truth
Jiigzz
Legend
Yeah, obviously.
Iwilleattuna
Well-known member
But it is true. Didn't you read about the "sharpie votes" in AZ, dead people being used as viable voters, mail in vote corruption, etc?
Iwilleattuna
Well-known member
They have made every attempt to get rid of standard voting so they can manipulate the results
Jiigzz
Legend
Now that you mention it, I did hear something about a Trump supporter requesting a ballot for one of her dead parents and getting arrested for it?
ax1
Legend
People are phony.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Yeah, too bad we couldn't have prevented anyone with the virus from entering the country before this became a problem. It should get better once Biden opens the borders even more and we have more super spreader protests.
I am heavily conservative, and I am for individual freedoms but I do wish the typical conservative wouldn't fall into the trap of "don't tell me to wear a mask" and "this virus doesn't matter". These lines are exactly what allowed the dems to turn this into a political weapon. They never cared about protecting people, only using this for their own benefit. Like Obama did, never let a good controversy go to waste. But where was Pelosi and her crew when they were trying to slow flights from China? Calling Trump an xenophobe. Interesting that now states have to prevent people from other states from entering, so it isn't like this isn't an acceptable strategy. And where was Pelosi when Americans needed a stimulus? Oh yeah, getting ice cream out of her freezer while vacationing.
But yes, I believe the tragedy is real and I think leaders have a tough road - how to protect while not trampling freedoms and constitutional rights. Those freedoms are worth millions of lives to be honest, but we should try to avoid that coming to that and it shouldn't be necessary if people had a little education and respect for others.
Biden's proposed chief of staff admits that Obama/Biden royally f'd up H1N1 - the guy has a history if failure. Things are about to get worse on the medical side, while also increasing social unrest because the guy is not a leader. He has never worked a job in his life, and is out of touch with America.
sillycibin
New member
No one likes idiots who ignore warnings that things are bad and getting worse. What's your actual medical experience? What's your experience with the virus? Do you even pay attention to the escalating numbers? Or even pay attention? Or are you locked into your echo chamber? No one is "flailing" or being chicken little. It's QUITE SIMPLE. Wear your f'ing mask. Respect the virus, don't be stupid, and wait for the vaccines to roll out in a few months. Can you people wake up and just pull in the same direction for a while? Your glorious leader is on his way out for thinking he could out fox reality. Really, what IS being asked of you? Wear a mask when out? For a few more months? How horrible. I guess your freedom to be a deutsche is worth 1500+ daily deaths... 45,000 deaths in a month. annualized 540,000 deaths... seems worth it.
sillycibin
New member
Just because YOU can't see the flames doesn't mean there's no fire. The fires are at the hospitals where the really sick people go. And the healthcare systems are now getting stretched and starting to put other patient's health at risk. Do you risk your lives on daily basis caring for people with a highly contagious disease? No? But you like criticizing from your arm chair?
ax1
Legend
I really havent seen any evidence that both Demicans and Republicrats have had any interest in preserving our freedoms in the first place, or ever... soooo, so much for that.
thebigt
Legend
damn, man...when did you become so anti-america?
HIT4ME
Well-known member
As another case I have dug up so far of the 90% effect - Illinois. Shocking because there's no suspicion of corruption in that state I thought 
Cook County - 1,684,658 registered voters. 1,890,000 votes - this is data I pulled myself, it is real.
Having said that, the voter registration data published by the state could be outdated and perhaps there was an almost 20% increase in the polls in this one county since they were published.
Still, that would be a 100% voter turnout in Cook County - unless there was around a 25% increase (for instance) in registrations, in which case you're still over 90% turnout.
Biden took more than 900,000 votes more than Trump in this county and won about 73% of the total vote. In the handful of other districts he took in the state, he never broke 57% of the vote. These 900,000 votes led to a 200,000 vote lead in the entire state for Biden.
I have not been able to calculate voter turnout for the other districts in the state, but I would wager no other district had 90% turnout or even close to it. It is very strange that these single districts with unusually high turnouts in comparison to the rest of their state, region or the US as a whole, are turning these states.
My extremely liberal friend who lived a county over from Cook noted that Cook County is known for corruption.
Cook County - 1,684,658 registered voters. 1,890,000 votes - this is data I pulled myself, it is real.
Having said that, the voter registration data published by the state could be outdated and perhaps there was an almost 20% increase in the polls in this one county since they were published.
Still, that would be a 100% voter turnout in Cook County - unless there was around a 25% increase (for instance) in registrations, in which case you're still over 90% turnout.
Biden took more than 900,000 votes more than Trump in this county and won about 73% of the total vote. In the handful of other districts he took in the state, he never broke 57% of the vote. These 900,000 votes led to a 200,000 vote lead in the entire state for Biden.
I have not been able to calculate voter turnout for the other districts in the state, but I would wager no other district had 90% turnout or even close to it. It is very strange that these single districts with unusually high turnouts in comparison to the rest of their state, region or the US as a whole, are turning these states.
My extremely liberal friend who lived a county over from Cook noted that Cook County is known for corruption.
ax1
Legend
I noticed that people are wearing a mask more than ever before and the virus is spiking. Perhaps they are a false sense of security after all. Nobody really wear real masks anyways. All the air comes in and out the sides and people fiddle with the insides all the time and handle them extraordinarily improperly. You even see the people telling you to wear the mask on tv bring it up and rub the insides, its ridiculous.
Government has utterly failed to get the right message. The message should be, if your high risk, stay home. If you must go out, wear a N95 mask. If you wear a mask here is how to properly handle it and be sure to wash your hands at all costs and use paper when turning a sink off.
If people did that, then people wont get sick, rights of people wouldnt be trampled......but nevermind, Groper won lets mass gather and group hug in Times Square then later on blame Dump rally's for the spread.
The entire thing is a joke and people keep begging people who truly dont give a crap about anybody and lack ethical integrity to take care of their problems.
And Im not saying nothing at all should be done, we can be pro-active with high risk groups should they voluntarily want help.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Well, maybe not the professional politicians, but Trump didn't really trample any state or individual rights in his response. He tried to stop it from getting here to begin with. He tread a fine line of shutting down but keeping enough open. I'm not a big believer that movie theaters, restaurants, gyms, etc. are constitutional rights. Those are niceties that didn't even exist 100 years ago. Go back then and ask someone to go out to eat and they would probably think you were extravagant or crazy. Do it every night like most Americans today?? What???
Now, a lot of states took their own actions which went even further, but those are state issues and he was right to let them make their decisions. At one point he said it was his decision to decide when to re-open, they called him on it and said it was a state decision and he reversed and said, fine. And that was probably the right call.
ax1
Legend
This is one local idiot politicization whore who is a mask mandate goblin, piece of crap joke.
The first picture is after the recent election, the lower picture is how this idiot wears a mask on the street. Total moral and power hungry goblin who truly doesnt give a crap about the virus spreading, just wants all the power. And he was one of the big "Dump Xenophobe" people.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Thinking you are somewhat right, but going a little too far - which is fine, people go too far in the other direction too - but what do you have against female Germans? Not even sure what they have to do with this?
ax1
Legend
He is the lesser of evils when it comes to trampling our freedoms, I think people have been really desensitized and the standards lowered. He has signed off on multiple trillion dollar stimulous package, and that there was direct theft from my savings accounts....and thats as low as you can get. Then he signed off a 1/2 trillion mega socialist package just to take from whitey and give it to black people, thats another topic but just venting here.
He did allow Governors to take control of their destiny as they should, and Governors became little cry babies when they went bankrupt overnight because these big government spending goblins didnt save money for a rainy day and we all have to suffer for it, especially here in NY.
Movie theaters, restaurants, gyms are mostly all on private property, so it is absolutely a Constitutional right. Im a little suprised you would claim otherwise. Its not for Government to step into our establishment and tell grown adults what they can or cant do on their premises. If they want to hold a massive million dollar Poker tournament during a viral crisis, it is within people's rights to not only do so but not have the government come in and steal a piece of the pie either. Im not saying its a smart idea, lol...Im not going.
But yes when it comes from the perspective of CCP-Virus handling, Dump has been far less intrusive than Demican ideology, but you know if Dump was more hardcore Demicans would be all about preserving people's rights.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Your assessment of who is a risk is backwards though. The person who creates the biggest risk isn't the elderly or those with pre-existing disease. The people who pose the biggest threat are the healthy people - they are the spreaders. The elderly are more likely to just get sick, fall fast, end up in a hospital and die without much outside contact. Most of the people who are highest risk already have limited contact with others. They pose hardly any risk to others.
The people who are young, in shape, etc. - pose an enormous risk to others. They can get this, have few symptoms and go infect a large number of people with this highly infectious disease and not even know.
The idea that the people who could die from this should just stay home is like telling people that if they don't want me to shoot them, they should just stay out of the way of my gun. If my gun goes off, I'm not at any risk so it shouldn't be my problem. No, it's my gun, it's my responsibility to not point it at people.
My real fear is that the conservatives fight this too hard, and the liberals finally pass laws to make it illegal to spread disease. So, if you get the flu and go to work and someone dies....you could be liable. That's too far but it is an area that they will push for if there isn't a reasonable discussion about personal responsibilities.
Ultimately though, what this virus is showing is that the government has NO control over keeping us safe - people as individuals wield far more power in that regard - and we need to avoid giving the government more power by wielding our own power responsibly; because the alternative is scary AF.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
This is just not true. There are numerous laws and regulations about how businesses are run. I am working with an automotive repair person right now looking for a place to conduct their business. They think they can just buy a bay space and move right in and use it. They will be shut down faster than you can imagine. There are all kinds of laws, mostly local, around where these repair shops can be located because we have drinking water issues and runoff from these businesses (oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, cleaners, etc.) will get into our water supply and poison our entire area (we have 1 major body of drinking water that supplies a large area). So they can't just open for business anywhere.
There are laws around ADA compliance, what businesses go where, what hours they can be open. There are definitions of what their businesses actually are, and if they step outside those definitions they are no longer the business they claim to be. Some of these laws do go too far, some are understandably necessary, and yes there probably are too many of them.
And a fully private property is different than a commercial enterprise where you are inviting the public in. If you limit access with membership and act as a club, maybe that's a different story. I mean, I can invite my buddy over to my house to work on his car and no one will care. But if I put up a sign on my front lawn and start fixing anyone's car who drives by, I'm gonna have issues.
Hell, I know landscapers who aren't even allowed to park their trucks at their house because it becomes a commercial staging area if their employees have to go pick up the vehicles and it creates disturbances in the neighborhood when they're backing up at 6 in the morning or at 9 at night.
But more to the point, I'm for individual rights - and that requires individual responsibilities. Why would you want to go somewhere where there are a bunch of other people right now - like a gym? It's not really necessary. Again, go back 100 years and talk bout going to a gym with someone. They'll laugh, why would you do that? Like Back to the Future when Marty goes back to the 1800's and Doc is talking at the bar - "Run for fun? Why would anyone do that??"
In reality, guys like Dixon - as much as he may initially disagree - don't need gyms. He probably has a hundred pounds of equipment and enough knowledge of how to keep in shape without a gym that he could put us all to shame without a single plate of iron. Yesterday I saw a vet on the news who walked 22 miles with his ruck sack on for veterans. Guy was a beast; I bet less than 5% of the people on this board could do that and this board is presumably in better shape than the average American by a long shot.
Going to a restaurant? Guess what, that's barely been limited. They increased the limitations on the number of people at a time. I still don't go. I know a lot of restaurant owners who have told me this has turned out to be one of their best years ever - but that's because we are on Cape Cod, a seasonal area that is suddenly a little less seasonal because no one wants to be in Boston anymore....so these people have been staying in the area. Their second home has become a year-round thing for now.
Ultimately, yes, I'm for freedoms - but some things people think are necessary are just weak. I can cook my own meal (and take out is another option anyway). I can watch netflix and avoid the theater. I'm soft AF and this stuff still doesn't phase me.
ax1
Legend
Its hard to go along with the Demican line, want to run your Salon? Go to jail, want to mass and celebrate Groper Joe defeating dump in the middle of a city where cases have just dramatically tripled where a mass mandating goblin politicization shows up not wearing a mask? Ok your good to go.
Im not saying being an idiot is the proper pushback but watching this from my side where I dont belong to either group this is certainly a comedy story.
thebigt
Legend
my city in indiana borders with illinois, everyone i've ever talked to hates chicago and it's grasp on the entire state....chicago politic's have a very long history of corruption...btw-that was obama's city-chicago, he started as a community organizer and i bet he still has strong connections.As another case I have dug up so far of the 90% effect - Illinois. Shocking because there's no suspicion of corruption in that state I thought
Cook County - 1,684,658 registered voters. 1,890,000 votes - this is data I pulled myself, it is real.
Having said that, the voter registration data published by the state could be outdated and perhaps there was an almost 20% increase in the polls in this one county since they were published.
Still, that would be a 100% voter turnout in Cook County - unless there was around a 25% increase (for instance) in registrations, in which case you're still over 90% turnout.
Biden took more than 900,000 votes more than Trump in this county and won about 73% of the total vote. In the handful of other districts he took in the state, he never broke 57% of the vote. These 900,000 votes led to a 200,000 vote lead in the entire state for Biden.
I have not been able to calculate voter turnout for the other districts in the state, but I would wager no other district had 90% turnout or even close to it. It is very strange that these single districts with unusually high turnouts in comparison to the rest of their state, region or the US as a whole, are turning these states.
My extremely liberal friend who lived a county over from Cook noted that Cook County is known for corruption.
thebigt
Legend
tell your friend to work with chamber of commerce and small business organisations in his city---i would have been lost without their help working around various ordinances and permits required.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I can agree with this - and it's the type of extremism of, "It's ok if it's my guy doing it but not your guy" that we need to avoid. It's hard to argue that it's ok not to wear a mask and then complain when BLM protesters are gathering and not wearing masks - just like it's hard to argue that it's OK for them to riot and gather when business owners providing services cannot make a living because they are not allowed to gather.
Don't get me too wrong. I think things go way to far in either direction. Ideally we'd have another option better than shut downs, or even distancing - but for the moment we don't and it would be better for people to accept that then to allow the government to force it on us. We are basically giving them fuel to legislate.
Now, I'm for pushing on the legislation. MA has a 10 PM curfew and I've told a number of people that while I'm boring and rarely go out after 10 PM, they're going to have to throw me in jail if I am out after 10 PM and they think they can just fine me and it will be paid. I'm not going to be out partying or doing something stupid; but I'm not going to be limited in doing what I NEED to do either.
And Biden is going to F this up just like Obama said Biden is good at doing.
thebigt
Legend
nailed it!!!
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Good advice - I'm a commercial real estate broker, which is why they came to me. We will find something, but it won't be as easy as they imagine. This happens a lot with new small business owners - they have no idea of the rules involved and the challenges they are about to face.
thebigt
Legend
to quote obama....'joe is good at f*cking things up' that is a actual quote.
thebigt
Legend
the laws are one thing it's the local ordinances that will kill you starting out....chamber of commerce and local small business organizations are indispensable, imo.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I believe it would have been much more effective if it didn't face such opposition, and I do believe it probably slowed the spread dramatically, although that is hard to prove now. We don't know what would have happened if thousands of people were flooding in from China without interruption. But I can guess.
I think avoiding people is a much more effective strategy for avoiding the virus than wearing a mask. I think washing your hands is a more effective strategy than wearing a mask. I think wearing a mask IS still courteous and possibly effective - but it is not the best defense and as Ax1 said it may provide a false sense of security - especially when others are too stupid to even wear a mask properly.
Still, somehow the dems have latched onto the least effective of those strategies and resisted the most effective means - avoidance - and somehow still positioned themselves as the protectors of everyone. I think if we kept everyone who had the virus out of this country, obviously it would have been the safest measure. If we limited to 100+ cases - obviously that would have been the next best thing. The reality is, that probably wasn't possible unless you had 100% shutdown and strong border security - but why fight that and encourage an economic shutdown on our own side?
Bottom line, 100+ cases with an R0 of as high as 5 is much easier to handle and possibly irradicate than 10,000 cases with an R0 of as high as 5.
ax1
Legend
There are laws and regulations, then there is the United States Constitutions. You can easily make a case that many of these laws and regulations violate people's Constitutional Rights.
You seem to be a fierce defender of the laws and regulations. I am a fierce defender of the Constitution, that is our clash.
People I know go see a mechanic who runs out of his own garage, government has no business to tell grown adults who can or cannot fix or go see to fix a car on someones personal property.
Should there be licensed outlets to inspect cars that go on public roads? Sure there is a case for a law or regulation for that.
Should there be regulations in direct areas that can effect other people's water supply? Maybe you have a case there but where do we draw the line and who is to say a non-regulated one is safer than a regulated one? I dunno, Ive seen unregulated individuals make better decisions than regulated ones. Some mega-companies just pay the fines because they can afford to pollute and its more cost effective to do so. I dunno, we need to draw the line here.
And a fully private property is different than a commercial enterprise where you are inviting the public in. If you limit access with membership and act as a club, maybe that's a different story. I mean, I can invite my buddy over to my house to work on his car and no one will care. But if I put up a sign on my front lawn and start fixing anyone's car who drives by, I'm gonna have issues.
And why should that be? Because the current unconstitutional government told you so? I dont buy the current definition of commercial. If you want to put up a sign inviting the public to have your car fixed, please do so, so I dont need to spend time on craigslist looking for one.
But more to the point, I'm for individual rights - and that requires individual responsibilities. Why would you want to go somewhere where there are a bunch of other people right now - like a gym? It's not really necessary. Again, go back 100 years and talk bout going to a gym with someone. They'll laugh, why would you do that? Like Back to the Future when Marty goes back to the 1800's and Doc is talking at the bar - "Run for fun? Why would anyone do that??"
It requires individual voluntary responsibilities. What is not really necessary is not unconstitutional. Your just making a case for the definition of dumb, but dumb is not illegal. There was a gym on the Titanic, did you know that? Im sure if you were in shape and muscular and ripped your shirt off 100 years ago, people wouldnt be laughing at you anymore. Ask Eugene Sandow. ACtually, I take that back, people still talk shyt because they are jealous, LOL!!!!
Just because you dont need a gym doesnt mean that government can write a law and regulation and trample on peoples rights to keep their gym open, as after all any business than provides income to take care of the bills and put meals on the table is an essential business.
Even if you make a case that going to a gym is not essential, non-essential is not unconstitutional and its not the right for the Government to infringe on a grown adults choice to do so and go to what is essentially an essential business that provides the right to life and liberty of the individual operating it.
ax1
Legend
I wanted to quote this on its own.
You have a right to your own definition of freedom, express it at your own liberty and make your own choices.
You dont have the right to take it from someone else just because you or anyone thinks so.
This is the difference between Conservatives and the ideas US Constitution. Conservatives, athough not on the level of liberals still want to micromanage your life and regulate the living crap out of people.....unconstitutionally. Constitutionalists go the other way and defend the documents, freedom, life liberty and protection from tyranny to the core.
Last edited:
ax1
Legend
How the fuq do you stop spreading a virus at 10:30 PM, LMFAO
Now people need to get everything done beforehand increasing density=fail.
thebigt
Legend
this is very true...i will never understand how my state doesn't require helmets for motorcycles and yet just started a click it or ticket campaign requiring even huge pickup trucks to have a mandatory seat belt law????
i think this is bullshyt---but yet i do it because i believe in law and order---and because i don't like paying fines, lol.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Man, I am never going to get any work done today - good talk....
I'm not a defender of laws - I'm actually advocating that laws and regulations are created when people don't take responsibilities and I don't want more laws and regulations, I want more responsibilities (they go hand-in-hand with freedoms).
For instance, you have a gun, I have a gun. Great. All for that. We shouldn't have laws limiting our rights to defend ourselves. I am for that.
But if everyone who had a gun just walked around in public firing their weapon without taking any responsibility - we would have a major problem. Those people SHOULD be arrested and dealt with. The more people who do that, the bigger the problem becomes, the more the government will try to combat it - and the more regulations/laws we will have. I don't want that. Now, you're right, I'm basically saying it would be nice if people just weren't stupid and that isn't realistic. So there is going to be a balance and that balance should be struck by people who advocate for laws, and people who fight against laws and for personal responsibility (you and me).
And, since you are a libertarian - my basic summation of libertarianism, which actually is what I believe conservatism really stands for - is that individuals rights should basically only be limited when their actions impose on the rights of another person.
So, are you a property owner? Do you drink water from your tap? Should your neighbor be able to start blasting loud music at 5 AM or back up his truck with horns at 5 AM? Should he be able to contaminate your property with oil and transmission fluid because he's trying to make a buck fixing cars? Should he be able to pile junk all over his yard and devalue your property? Sure, great, he can do whatever, but those consequences effect other people and he should be responsible for them.
And fully private property should be different than commercial enterprises because you are inviting the public into your property. For instance, do you have a ramp on the front of your house so that handicapped people can get in? No. Because if you want someone who is handicapped to be in your house you will be responsible for that. But should you be able to prevent that person from coming into your store and buying things you offer to everyone else, for your own enrichment, by not placing a ramp there? Probably not.
And if you work on your car, or your friends car, fine. The amount of fluids being put in the ground are probably harmless. But if you're doing 30-40 cars a month and storing 55 gallon drums of oil, etc. - the impact is a little different.
And as you so rightly point out, it's a cost of doing business. These actions create a cost, and the businesses should pay for those costs in some way - not put it on others. If it costs more to find a spot that doesn't pollute the drinking water, or an area that is allowed so that you only have the potential of contamination among other similar uses where it can be better managed, then you go to those locations and bear that cost - whether it be in the form of money or convenience, etc.
If you can't afford to do that, then you can't run the business. You don't get to subsidize your business at the cost of others ....unless you are a liberal.
ax1
Legend
A bunch of Republicrats signed off on the un-Safe Act, and Republicrats on paper are generally anti-gun. They pretend to be pro-2A.
I learned a new term the other day. FUDD. A typical Republicrat is a FUDD.
If you support the 2A go Gold.
thebigt
Legend
i am a firm believer in capitalism, but i think the past provided us with ample examples of why there needs to be regulations---facebook, twitter, amazon and google are todays examples, imo.