Donald Trump running for president

so...those addicts will then have legal access to all the opioids they ever hoped for....oh boy!!!
Because they don’t have access to opioids now? Opioids that are laced with other more deadly drugs. You act like people who got hooked on opioid scripts just said “well, I’ll just stop using them cold turkey since they’re illegal.” Right...

Because nobody drank during prohibition, right? And nobody smoked weed when it was/is illegal, right! Outlawing drugs doesn’t stop people from using them...
 
so...those addicts will then have legal access to all the opioids they ever hoped for....oh boy!!!

You would run self funded clinics and people will have less dangerous effects of shared needles and dirty drugs. These clinics would be open 24/7 and not cost a single tax dollar. You would encourage people through education to not do drugs and offer medical help should you make the wrong choices.
 
hey man, I got all the exclamation marks you could ever hope for, lol....

for one minute think about society with legal drugs of all kind.
You sound like a damn liberal. “Think about the children/society/etc!” That’s not a logical argument; it’s an appeal to emotion.

Do you want to actually address my points, or should I spell them out again for you?
 
addictions come with a high price, to families and to society...not to mention the health issues they bring, trust me I have personal experience with this....

And every one of those addictions were caused by people breaking the law to get their hands on drugs....besides the opioid crisis where addictions originated from legal prescriptions but thats another story.
 
It’s absolutely a felony lol that’s what I was getting at. Substituting a high for a high doesn’t help in any regard. But, I’m NOT the one to say they cant use it... your body, do as you will but don’t entice anyone around you with semantics to try a “legal” drug
The problem with legal drugs is that they may not be legal tomorrow lol.
 
But they are illegal and some 2 trillion dollars have been spent on the war on drugs after 45 some years drug use is getting worse...illegally. Making them illegal just isnt working, why continue the status quo and put that money into health care rather than policies that dont work and empower gangs, criminals, CIA and even the Federal Government.

Nobody is going to do drugs because they are legal. If someone wants to do drugs its easier for a high school kid to get illegal cocaine or extasy than legal alcohol, at least from my youth in a small good area.

I am not for making another addicting drug easier to access. doctors have tightened up on prescribing opiates for minor to moderate pain, this will cause a lot of discomfort for many but MOST will just deal with the discomfort...IF THEY WERE LEGAL-----?????

drugs of all kind were very easy to access back in my day. most of the guys I grew up with are dead from drugs in one way or another, and what lives they did have were pretty miserable, imo.
 
You sound like a damn liberal. “Think about the children/society/etc!” That’s not a logical argument; it’s an appeal to emotion.

Do you want to actually address my points, or should I spell them out again for you?

dude, I just don't want to pay for the high cost legalization of drugs would bring!!!!!!

not to mention driving under the influence.



I have neither the time or the crayons to spell this out for you!!!
 
I am not for making another addicting drug easier to access. doctors have tightened up on prescribing opiates for minor to moderate pain, this will cause a lot of discomfort for many but MOST will just deal with the discomfort...IF THEY WERE LEGAL-----?????


Thats a doctor and pharmaceutical lobby issue along with doctors who typically learn through experience the hard way when it comes to drugs and improving medical education.

drugs of all kind were very easy to access back in my day. most of the guys I grew up with are dead from drugs in one way or another, and what lives they did have were pretty miserable, imo.

And the war on drugs and making everything illegal has made it only worse from drug use to crime.

The government grows the opium in Afghanistan, they use our troops to help the farmers, protect them and protect the smugglers. This is all on record. The government is also the one who made drugs illegal, why do you think that is? Why doesnt Dump tell Americans the truth?



 
The problem with legal drugs is that they may not be legal tomorrow lol.

you mean like cigarettes....the health cost is so high they are being taxed out of existence.....the same would be true if opiate drugs were legalized.



legalizing drugs sounds like it would solve problems in the short term, but long term who is going to pay for the medical cost all those addicts would bring?



eventually just like cigarettes, taxes on drugs would get so high there would become a black market for stolen tax free drugs just like there is beginning to be with cigarettes...BOOM back to square one with a society full of addicts.
 
dude, I just don't want to pay for the high cost legalization of drugs would bring!!!!!!

But your ok with this broke country paying to illegalize it? The War On Drugs Costs The U.S. Over $78B A Year. How much do you think decriminalization cost? How about putting funds into better police training to help enforce driving under influence and you still have 10s of billions left over.
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legalizing drugs sounds like it would solve problems in the short term, but long term who is going to pay for the medical cost all those addicts would bring?

It would be self funded at the clinics and you can use some of the 78 billion a year resources for extra medical care if you have to. And people for a change can actually get help which is the real problem...drug addiction is a medical problem not a crime problem.
 
It would be self funded at the clinics. And people for a change can actually get help which is the real problem...drug addiction is a medical problem not a crime problem.

you mean like the legal pot 'clinics', lol....sooner or later the tax would get so high it would be much cheaper to pursue drugs from illegal tax free dealers...BOOM back to square one!!!


much, much, more crime happens while under the influence than not, and not just alcohol.
 
But your ok with this broke country paying to illegalize it? The War On Drugs Costs The U.S. Over $78B A Year. How much do you think decriminalization cost? How about putting funds into better police training to help enforce driving under influence and you still have 10s of billions left over.
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i'm not sure how much we spend on healthcare...but I am positive the cost would rise significantly if we become a country of addicts. do you know how much it costs to send 1 person thru a clinic to quit drugs? it aint cheap and success rate is not very good.
 
much, much, more crime happens while under the influence than not, and not just alcohol.

Im not disagreeing with your that more crime happens under influence (pot is another story imho,) but why do you think crime it already is out of control while it being illegal anyways?
 
i'm not sure how much we spend on healthcare...but I am positive the cost would rise significantly if we become a country of addicts. do you know how much it costs to send 1 person thru a clinic to quit drugs? it aint cheap and success rate is not very good.

We already are a country of addicts. Your too late, lol

It would cost nothing if the clinics sold the drugs 100% tax exempt and 100% went to finance their own medical care. Id bet they have a surplus and use it to improve education in schools about drugs.
 
It would be self funded at the clinics and you can use some of the 78 billion a year resources for extra medical care if you have to. And people for a change can actually get help which is the real problem...drug addiction is a medical problem not a crime problem.

what do you think is the success rate for quitting drugs at a clinic?

what do you think the cost is for that clinic?

who do you think will pay the cost for 1 person to go thru clinic repeatedly and still use?
 
dude, I just don't want to pay for the high cost legalization of drugs would bring!!!!!!

not to mention driving under the influence.



I have neither the time or the crayons to spell this out for you!!!
I’ll address you point by point...

Why wood legalization drive up costs? I already said that criminalization doesn’t stop people from using them, it only makes them more dangerous to use. Almost half of all opioid deaths involved fentanyl, which is essentially only found in laced street drugs. I also provided the examples of alcohol during prohibition and weed in modern America to demonstrate that criminalization didn’t stop a myriad of people from using them, so the same thing should be expected here.

And DUI? Why the hell would they increase if drugs were legalized? Alcohol is legal, it’s still illegal to drink and drive. People who do legal drugs wouldn’t be legally allowed to drive while on them. And since we already established that criminalization doesn’t stop use, the people will still use them, and the people who use them when they’re illegal are more likely to drive on them then people who use them legally, as they’re by definition already criminals.

You claim I’m the one who needs crayons but you’re the one making fallacious arguments and not addressing my points...
 
i'm not sure how much we spend on healthcare...but I am positive the cost would rise significantly if we become a country of addicts. do you know how much it costs to send 1 person thru a clinic to quit drugs? it aint cheap and success rate is not very good.

Just to add, I dont support socialized medicine so I simultaneously 100% support taking every penny of the load off the tax payer. Problem solved.
 
You posted about the minority of idiots on social media in the Parkland incident way after it was over.

Justhere recently posted complaining about the Catholic kids too.

But clearly I’m the only one who is getting riled up and who needs to “harden the hell up?” If I do, so do both of you...

I thought you were done? Bringing up the reaction to the Parkland shooting is relevant because I'm talking about how it relates to another issue that happened days ago. You're on here like Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling. Oh no, the liberals! Oh no, random strangers on social media! Oh no, one random professor hurt my feelings one time! So yes, harden the hell up. Give it a shot.
 
I’ll address you point by point...

Why wood legalization drive up costs? I already said that criminalization doesn’t stop people from using them, it only makes them more dangerous to use. Almost half of all opioid deaths involved fentanyl, which is essentially only found in laced street drugs. I also provided the examples of alcohol during prohibition and weed in modern America to demonstrate that criminalization didn’t stop a myriad of people from using them, so the same thing should be expected here.

And DUI? Why the hell would they increase if drugs were legalized? Alcohol is legal, it’s still illegal to drink and drive. People who do legal drugs wouldn’t be legally allowed to drive while on them. And since we already established that criminalization doesn’t stop use, the people will still use them, and the people who use them when they’re illegal are more likely to drive on them then people who use them legally, as they’re by definition already criminals.

You claim I’m the one who needs crayons but you’re the one making fallacious arguments and not addressing my points...

#1.dui=driving under the influence...drugs are also included
#2. legalizing will cause many more to use, that would not if they were illegal
#3. you talked about this forum having many guys who use AAS's, well I am not one of them. the risk is far too great for me to OBTAIN illegal substances. many times people ask why do you use otc AI's when prescription AI's are easy to get---because otc's are LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I was in the navy before drug testing started, we could walk into a pharmacy in Europe and buy valium and ionamin without a script. many guys brought freezer baggies full of these things onboard ship. speed all day then chill out and sleep like a baby....then drug testing started, this put an end to this behavior real quick when guys started getting captains mast and rank stripped and money withheld from paychecks. you would not believe how much improvement the ships crew showed when we went to gitmo for evals.
 
I thought you were done? Bringing up the reaction to the Parkland shooting is relevant because I'm talking about how it relates to another issue that happened days ago. You're on here like Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling. Oh no, the liberals! Oh no, random strangers on social media! Oh no, one random professor hurt my feelings one time! So yes, harden the hell up. Give it a shot.
You and justhere are doing the same thing too... maybe we all need to “harden the hell up?” When did I say the sky was falling? I said it’s something that’s happening, and that it’s not a good thing. I never said it’s the end of the world... emotional much? This is asinine...
 
I was in the navy before drug testing started, we could walk into a pharmacy in Europe and buy valium and ionamin without a script. many guys brought freezer baggies full of these things onboard ship. speed all day then chill out and sleep like a baby....then drug testing started, this put an end to this behavior real quick when guys started getting captains mast and rank stripped and money withheld from paychecks. you would not believe how much improvement the ships crew showed when we went to gitmo for evals.

These concepts also work in a regular work place. A private company should have the right to randomly drug test as a part of an agreement for hire. This brings up a good point as people can be incentivized to stay away from drugs.
 
Just to add, I dont support socialized medicine so I simultaneously 100% support taking every penny of the load off the tax payer. Problem solved.
ax1 then you definitely don't want to support legalization of drugs....healthcare costs of drug abusers/addicts has got to be way more than those not addicted....and addicts have a hard time holding jobs, and when they lose job guess what, they want to use even more. and guess what, an addict can qualify as a disabled and collect disability-now what do you think about that?



your taxes get to pay for someone to sit on their azz all day doing drugs and collecting disability, and when they get sick you can pay for that too, lol---aint life grand!!!
 
You and justhere are doing the same thing too... maybe we all need to “harden the hell up?” When did I say the sky was falling? I said it’s something that’s happening, and that it’s not a good thing. I never said it’s the end of the world... emotional much? This is asinine...

Give a single example of me doing it.
 
You and justhere are doing the same thing too... maybe we all need to “harden the hell up?” When did I say the sky was falling? I said it’s something that’s happening, and that it’s not a good thing. I never said it’s the end of the world... emotional much? This is asinine...

I didnt really get how you overdid your point or see what the big deal was :)
 
ax1 then you definitely don't want to support legalization of drugs....healthcare costs of drug abusers/addicts has got to be way more than those not addicted....and addicts have a hard time holding jobs, and when they lose job guess what, they want to use even more. and guess what, an addict can qualify as a disabled and collect disability-now what do you think about that?



your taxes get to pay for someone to sit on their azz all day doing drugs and collecting disability, and when they get sick you can pay for that too, lol---aint life grand!!!

No, because as I repeatedly say, profits of the drugs would be tax exempt and go to drug treatment and medical care without the cost of the tax payer or our socialized health care system.

People make bad choices break the law and buy illegal drugs, and of course they would have a hard time holding jobs that is seen today with addicts especially when they get a criminal record. These consequences clearly show that the war on drugs is a complete catastrophe and resources and trillions have gone into the wrong places. And even with the war on drugs, it has failed to prevent addicts from qualifying for disability, so if you want to continue the status quo you wont be solving the problems. Illegal does not = prevention, how do I know? Because it is already illegal.

And as I said, I dont support socialism, so why blame me for people voting for polititions both democrats and republicans who support socialism? I want to abolish both socialism and the war on drugs so problem solved.
 
I gotta an idea, how about making breaking the law illegal, and then people wouldnt buy illegal drugs anymore because they would be breaking the law then, or maybe now they broke the law twice so twice the charges = problem solved. Who would break the law twice in 1 shot? Nobody. It will work 100% of the time, drug prevention at its finest guaranteed to work just like Dump is going to promise to eradicate ISIS completely and guarantee to bring peace to Israel and Palestine :)
 
Cute. Of me trying to validate an imaginary issue with no significant evidence except a few personal, infrequent incidents.
An imaginary issue? It’s a trivial issue, but it’s not an imaginary issue. The fact that evidence was shown from TV news/media, social media, and personal experience shows that it’s not an imaginary issue. I fully admit it’s a trivial issue that doesn’t have any meaningful impact on my day to day life, but it’s not imaginary. I also complained about it here because this thread is 90% or more just people saying whatever is on their mind. I never said it’s making me terribly upset or that I think it’s the end of the world lol.

I’m sorry I complained about a trivial issue that someone else brought up before me. I’ll make sure to only complain about life or death issues going forward. Or I’ll make sure to clarify that if I complain it’s just random venting and not something I’m losing sleep over. Cool?
 
so...those addicts will then have legal access to all the opioids they ever hoped for....oh boy!!!

From wiki real life example how decriminalization and treating consumers as patients and not as a criminals does not = Armageddon. And these are results in a 3rd world country, we can do far better than this.
----------------------------------------------------
The drug policy of Portugal was put in place in 2001, and was legally effective from July 2001. The new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, the offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than a ten-day supply of that substance.[1]

In April 2009, the Cato Institute published a White Paper about the "decriminalization" of drugs in Portugal,[2] paid for by the Marijuana Policy Project [3] Data about the heroin usage rates of 13-16-year-olds from EMCDDA were used to claim that "decriminalization" has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates. However, drug-related pathologies - such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage - have decreased dramatically.[2][4][5] In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of HIV amongst injecting drug users in the European Union. The number of newly diagnosed HIV cases among drug users has decreased to 13.4 cases per million in 2009 but that is still high above the European average of 2.85 cases per million.[1] There were 2,000 new cases a year, in a country of 10 million people. 45% of HIV reported AIDS cases recorded in 1997 originated among IV drug users,[6] so targeting drug use was seen as an effective avenue of HIV prevention. The number of heroin users was estimated to be between 50,000 and 100,000 at the end of the 1990s.[7] This led to the adoption of The National Strategy for the Fight Against Drugs in 1999. A vast expansion of harm reduction efforts, doubling the investment of public funds in drug treatment and drug prevention services, and changing the legal framework dealing with minor drug offenses were the main elements of the policy thrust.

Observations
Ambox current red.svg

There is little reliable information about drug use, injecting behaviour or addiction treatment in Portugal before 2001, when general population surveys commenced. Before that, there were the indicators on lifetime prevalence amongst youth, collected as part of the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs (ESPAD), and some other (less reliable) data available through the EMCDDA.[18]

Thorough studies on how the various efforts have been implemented were not conducted. Thus, a causal effect between strategy efforts and these developments cannot be firmly established.[12] There are, however, statistical indicators that suggest the following correlations between the drug strategy and the following developments, from July 2001 up to 2007:

  • Increased uptake of treatment (roughly 60% increase as of 2012.)[12]
  • Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%[19] and a general drop of 90% in drug-related HIV infection
  • Reduction in drug related deaths, although this reduction has decreased in later years. The number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented.[12][19] However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.[20]
  • Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%[19] It has been proposed[by whom?] that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.[20] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use was decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal [20][21] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe.[22][23] The increase in drug use observed among adults in Portugal was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug laws.[24]
  • Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.[20]
  • Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased.[20]
  • Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly
  • The number of drug related deaths has reduced from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008.[25] As of 2012, Portugal's drug death toll sat at 3 per million, in comparison to the EU average of 17.3 per million.
  • Homicide rate increased from 1.13 per 100 000 in 2000 to 1.76 in 2007, then decreased to 0.96 in 2015 [26][27][28]

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An imaginary issue? It’s a trivial issue, but it’s not an imaginary issue. The fact that evidence was shown from TV news/media, social media, and personal experience shows that it’s not an imaginary issue. I fully admit it’s a trivial issue that doesn’t have any meaningful impact on my day to day life, but it’s not imaginary. I also complained about it here because this thread is 90% or more just people saying whatever is on their mind. I never said it’s making me terribly upset or that I think it’s the end of the world lol.

I’m sorry I complained about a trivial issue that someone else brought up before me. I’ll make sure to only complain about life or death issues going forward. Or I’ll make sure to clarify that if I complain it’s just random venting and not something I’m losing sleep over. Cool?

You're falling into youngandfree tactics here and avoiding the question just as you accused bigt of doing. You made a statement about me and I'm asking you to provide an example to back it up. You can vent about imaginary stuff all day long as it's an open forum. I'll even get you a doll and you can point to where the bad liberal professor hurt you. Again, what's a single example of me doing what you accused me of doing?
 
You're falling into youngandfree tactics here and avoiding the question just as you accused bigt of doing. You made a statement about me and I'm asking you to provide an example to back it up. You can vent about imaginary stuff all day long as it's an open forum. I'll even get you a doll and you can point to where the bad liberal professor hurt you. Again, what's a single example of me doing what you accused me of doing?
Trivial, not imaginary. ;)

I’m going back to the original issue man. You said I need to toughen up because I think the say is falling, but I never said I think it’s a huge issue, just that it’s a thing I felt like mentioning, and later admitted is trivial. This is really getting to the point of insanity. Me simply mentioning that it’s a thing and providing an example doesn’t mean that it’s disrupting my life or it’s something I think is a huge issue. This whole debate stemmed from that. I should have clarified that it’s a trivial issue to begin with.
 
I said “they.” You asked who they is. I said who it is, and admitted it’s a minority. You then told me not to worry about it and that the CNN lady was a one-off. At this point I should have told you that I’m not worried about it, I was just venting, but instead I decided to provide an example in my life to show that, while it’s still a minority, it’s not just one person doing it, and it’s not just the media.

I responded in a way that made it seem like I was more upset than I really was, hence your telling me to toughen up. Rest assured I know it’s not anything to lose sleep over.

Cool?
 
From wiki real life example how decriminalization and treating consumers as patients and not as a criminals does not = Armageddon. And these are results in a 3rd world country, we can do far better than this.
----------------------------------------------------
The drug policy of Portugal was put in place in 2001, and was legally effective from July 2001. The new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, the offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than a ten-day supply of that substance.[1]

In April 2009, the Cato Institute published a White Paper about the "decriminalization" of drugs in Portugal,[2] paid for by the Marijuana Policy Project [3] Data about the heroin usage rates of 13-16-year-olds from EMCDDA were used to claim that "decriminalization" has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates. However, drug-related pathologies - such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage - have decreased dramatically.[2][4][5] In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of HIV amongst injecting drug users in the European Union. The number of newly diagnosed HIV cases among drug users has decreased to 13.4 cases per million in 2009 but that is still high above the European average of 2.85 cases per million.[1] There were 2,000 new cases a year, in a country of 10 million people. 45% of HIV reported AIDS cases recorded in 1997 originated among IV drug users,[6] so targeting drug use was seen as an effective avenue of HIV prevention. The number of heroin users was estimated to be between 50,000 and 100,000 at the end of the 1990s.[7] This led to the adoption of The National Strategy for the Fight Against Drugs in 1999. A vast expansion of harm reduction efforts, doubling the investment of public funds in drug treatment and drug prevention services, and changing the legal framework dealing with minor drug offenses were the main elements of the policy thrust.

Observations
Ambox current red.svg

There is little reliable information about drug use, injecting behaviour or addiction treatment in Portugal before 2001, when general population surveys commenced. Before that, there were the indicators on lifetime prevalence amongst youth, collected as part of the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs (ESPAD), and some other (less reliable) data available through the EMCDDA.[18]

Thorough studies on how the various efforts have been implemented were not conducted. Thus, a causal effect between strategy efforts and these developments cannot be firmly established.[12] There are, however, statistical indicators that suggest the following correlations between the drug strategy and the following developments, from July 2001 up to 2007:

  • Increased uptake of treatment (roughly 60% increase as of 2012.)[12]
  • Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%[19] and a general drop of 90% in drug-related HIV infection
  • Reduction in drug related deaths, although this reduction has decreased in later years. The number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented.[12][19] However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.[20]
  • Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%[19] It has been proposed[by whom?] that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.[20] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use was decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal [20][21] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe.[22][23] The increase in drug use observed among adults in Portugal was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug laws.[24]
  • Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.[20]
  • Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased.[20]
  • Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly
  • The number of drug related deaths has reduced from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008.[25] As of 2012, Portugal's drug death toll sat at 3 per million, in comparison to the EU average of 17.3 per million.
  • Homicide rate increased from 1.13 per 100 000 in 2000 to 1.76 in 2007, then decreased to 0.96 in 2015 [26][27][28]

Invalid Link Removed

look at san Francisco....they have turned a blind eye towards drug enforcement....google 'drug problems in san Francisco'.
 
look at san Francisco....they have turned a blind eye towards drug enforcement....google 'drug problems in san Francisco'.

I know about that, and you would want to look at issues in that other liberal ces pool Portland too. There is also an growing invasion in NYC parks of heroin addicts, needles are found everywhere where kids play but NYC is a police state ses pool when it comes to the war on drugs. These problems are growing across the country and its really sad but its not because of big brother trying to regulate what or what not people can put into their bodies. There is much more too it but illegal didnt stop any of these people of doing it in the first place.

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Its so bad in NYC they are installing kiosks to put needles in at public parks.
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look at san Francisco....they have turned a blind eye towards drug enforcement....google 'drug problems in san Francisco'.

Keep in mind BigT, want to be clear...we both have a healthy debate on the drug issue, our solutions may be different along as what some of the causes may be, but we do BOTH have the same hatred and disgust for drugs and the same level of concerns on working solve the problem. We really are on the same team, just different solutions :)

I think you know that already but just wanted to say so myself and make sure you know I respect you on this one.
 
I know about that, and you would want to look at issues in that other liberal ces pool Portland too. There is also an growing invasion in NYC parks of heroin addicts, needles are found everywhere where kids play but NYC is a police state ses pool when it comes to the war on drugs. These problems are growing across the country and its really sad but its not because of big brother trying to regulate what or what not people can put into their bodies. There is much more too it but illegal didnt stop any of these people of doing it in the first place.

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Its so bad in NYC they are installing kiosks to put needles in at public parks.
Invalid Link Removed

that sounds like lack of enforcement....here in my small city they don't have enough space in the one jail, drugs would never be enough to land you in jail here. hell, this girl just killed 3 high school kids while driving drunk and they OR'ed her the next day.


this is small city Indiana, meth is everywhere...I could point to 3 different houses where they cook meth on regular basis...i'm sure the cops know about them too, but not worth the risk to bust them then see them on the street the next day.
 
that sounds like lack of enforcement....here in my small city they don't have enough space in the one jail, drugs would never be enough to land you in jail here. hell, this girl just killed 3 high school kids while driving drunk and they OR'ed her the next day.


this is small city Indiana, meth is everywhere...I could point to 3 different houses where they cook meth on regular basis...i'm sure the cops know about them too, but not worth the risk to bust them then see them on the street the next day.

NYC has a stronger police force and can probably take on most countries around the globe without help of our military or national guard, lol

After 9-11 they gave our police forces dianabol laced with deca laced with The Clear laced with megatons of pure test....well you know what I mean. They are crazy powerful in NYC and extremely sophisticated, no joke.
 
Keep in mind BigT, want to be clear...we both have a healthy debate on the drug issue, our solutions may be different along as what some of the causes may be, but we do BOTH have the same hatred and disgust for drugs and the same level of concerns on working solve the problem. We really are on the same team, just different solutions :)

I think you know that already but just wanted to say so myself and make sure you know I respect you on this one.

back at you!!!


I know you won't agree and that is ok, but I just can't put my mind around legalizing drugs...not with all the morons, freeloaders,and misfits we have already....I have enough issues with drunks, lol.
 
NYC has a stronger police force and can probably take on most countries around the globe without help of our military or national guard, lol

After 9-11 they gave our police forces dianabol laced with deca laced with The Clear laced with megatons of pure test....well you know what I mean. They are crazy powerful in NYC and extremely sophisticated, no joke.

but the police in NYC are harnessed by a liberal democrat mayor. think about it, if the police in NYC actually went to WAR on drugs and started locking up all drug offenders there would be no more drug problem in NYC in less than a week. if you know you are going to get arrested for using the dealers would be gone in no time.....
 
but the police in NYC are harnessed by a liberal democrat mayor. think about it, if the police in NYC actually went to WAR on drugs and started locking up all drug offenders there would be no more drug problem in NYC in less than a week. if you know you are going to get arrested for using the dealers would be gone in no time.....

It’s a huge city of 8 million people and then account for across the river in jersey which is an extension of NYC (where the
New Jersey Jets and Giants play) and an unbelievable amount of traffic coming in through multiple tunnels, many bridges, bus/train port along with sea ports and multiple airports....etc...

They can crack down hard on drugs but that would simply cause consolidation and demand vs. scarcity would increase price and further bring a heavy increase in incentives for people to take the risk including the police themselves who historically been easily bought out by the mob in NYC in the past since their salaries suck.

If they can’t keep drugs out of prisons I would guess NYC would be a slightly more difficult task to control and keep it under control costing countless tax dollars that would be taken away from much other endless needed areas.

Even if they enforced the death penalty people will still take that risk.

Mayor DeBul****io can kiss my ass lol
 
back at you!!!


I know you won't agree and that is ok, but I just can't put my mind around legalizing drugs...not with all the morons, freeloaders,and misfits we have already....I have enough issues with drunks, lol.

You don't have to agree with this as both drugs and guns are a complicated issue, but I find a lot of conservatives saying that more laws for guns won't stop bad people from killing with guns, that only good people follow the laws anyway. Why would it be different for drugs? There might be some people that are curious, but if people want to try drugs, they can and do. If heroin became legal tomorrow, I'm not going to do it just because it's legal.

Here in Seattle, you can purchase pot legally, but you have to do inside of your home. You can't do it outside and you can't build a public bar-type place for people to do it. I say make drugs legal, but increase punishment for crimes that occur as a result, such as assault or DUI. DUI should be attempted murder. Do the same for alcohol too. As for opioids, they can blame our borders all they want, but that's not the problem. Opioids, especially fentanyl, need to go back to only being used for cancer pain or for palliative purposes (keeping somebody comfortable as they are dying) in a controlled hospital setting. It's getting better, but it's still almost as hard for me to get pseudoephedrine for a stuffy nose as it is to get an opioid for back pain.
 
look at san Francisco....they have turned a blind eye towards drug enforcement....google 'drug problems in san Francisco'.

I don't know how they can still charge as much as they do for rent and real estate there. I've seen more people peeing and taking dumps out in the open there than any other city. The homeless population there is way overly aggressive too.
 
but the police in NYC are harnessed by a liberal democrat mayor. think about it, if the police in NYC actually went to WAR on drugs and started locking up all drug offenders there would be no more drug problem in NYC in less than a week. if you know you are going to get arrested for using the dealers would be gone in no time.....
The government went to WAR on alcohol HARD during prohibition, and that failed miserably, and gave rise to all manner of powerful and violent organized crime. I respect your views, but there is no clear cut answer, I’ll admit that.
 
You don't have to agree with this as both drugs and guns are a complicated issue, but I find a lot of conservatives saying that more laws for guns won't stop bad people from killing with guns, that only good people follow the laws anyway. Why would it be different for drugs? There might be some people that are curious, but if people want to try drugs, they can and do. If heroin became legal tomorrow, I'm not going to do it just because it's legal.

Here in Seattle, you can purchase pot legally, but you have to do inside of your home. You can't do it outside and you can't build a public bar-type place for people to do it. I say make drugs legal, but increase punishment for crimes that occur as a result, such as assault or DUI. DUI should be attempted murder. Do the same for alcohol too. As for opioids, they can blame our borders all they want, but that's not the problem. Opioids, especially fentanyl, need to go back to only being used for cancer pain or for palliative purposes (keeping somebody comfortable as they are dying) in a controlled hospital setting. It's getting better, but it's still almost as hard for me to get pseudoephedrine for a stuffy nose as it is to get an opioid for back pain.
Great post! Respect. Spot on with everything you said!
 
I’ve always said that any crime that carries the possibility of violence should be considered a violent crime. So if you get a DUI, it’s violent even if you didn’t kill anyone, since it inherently carries the possibility of becoming violent/deadly. Same with robbing a house. You can never really know if the house is empty, and therefore any robbery/burglary (I forget which is which haha) necessitates the inherent possibility of violence. That too should be a violent crime.
 
You don't have to agree with this as both drugs and guns are a complicated issue, but I find a lot of conservatives saying that more laws for guns won't stop bad people from killing with guns, that only good people follow the laws anyway. Why would it be different for drugs? There might be some people that are curious, but if people want to try drugs, they can and do. If heroin became legal tomorrow, I'm not going to do it just because it's legal.

Here in Seattle, you can purchase pot legally, but you have to do inside of your home. You can't do it outside and you can't build a public bar-type place for people to do it. I say make drugs legal, but increase punishment for crimes that occur as a result, such as assault or DUI. DUI should be attempted murder. Do the same for alcohol too. As for opioids, they can blame our borders all they want, but that's not the problem. Opioids, especially fentanyl, need to go back to only being used for cancer pain or for palliative purposes (keeping somebody comfortable as they are dying) in a controlled hospital setting. It's getting better, but it's still almost as hard for me to get pseudoephedrine for a stuffy nose as it is to get an opioid for back pain.

wow...that is a nice thought out response. legalizing drugs while increasing punishment for ensuing crimes that are bound to come with legalization is something I can agree with.


the only problem I see is people with 8 dui's still on the street. or the girl here in my town who killed 3 teenagers while drunk driving, they OR'ed her the next day.
 
wow...that is a nice thought out response. legalizing drugs while increasing punishment for ensuing crimes that are bound to come with legalization is something I can agree with.


the only problem I see is people with 8 dui's still on the street. or the girl here in my town who killed 3 teenagers while drunk driving, they OR'ed her the next day.

Im down with harder punishment. Personally, I wouldnt mind 1 strike and your out when it comes to dwi and dui's...or maybe long term 3-5 year suspensions. Id make it hard though, Im for that. I would indoctrinate the public the warnings so no excuses if your an idiot and make the wrong choice. Then if you get caught driving with a suspended license caused by a dui go to prison.
 
Yeah, any crime that has the potential to harm someone should be harshly penalized. DUI? Harsh penalty. Commit a crime with a gun even if you don’t shoot anyone? Jail. It inherently risks people’s lives, and you knew it.
 
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