Donald Trump running for president

Aleksandar37 said:
If you're saying science should stay out of religion, then I completely agree.
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I really dont mind applying science to trying to figure this all out, its partly what made me an atheist. I used to be catholic as a child to about 14 or 15.
 
Science cannot be applied to the supernatural. It is in the very definition of science, being "the study of the natural world". Topics studied in science must be testable, and as far as I know, there is no test to prove there is a deity.
 
ax1 said:
I really dont mind applying science to trying to figure this all out, its partly what made me an atheist. I used to be catholic as a child to about 14 or 15.
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have you patented this equation?
 
jswain34 said:
Science cannot be applied to the supernatural. It is in the very definition of science, being "the study of the natural world". Topics studied in science must be testable, and as far as I know, there is no test to prove there is a deity.
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or disprove, I might add!!!
 
jswain34 said:
Science cannot be applied to the supernatural. It is in the very definition of science, being "the study of the natural world". Topics studied in science must be testable, and as far as I know, there is no test to prove there is a deity.
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Of course you can, just because you think you cant prove something doesnt mean you cant apply science to prove or disprove the unknown. You can start with experiments in haunted houses, cemeteries and prisons that have been reported for years with scientific instruments and analysis and see if there are supernatural things that pop up and take it from there which should lead you 1 step closer to proving the possibility of the existence of a deity. Thats just one quick example. Doesnt mean you will find answers but its still science imo.
 
ax1 said:
Of course you can, just because you think you cant prove something doesnt mean you cant apply science to prove or disprove the unknown. You can start with experiments in haunted houses, cemeteries and prisons that have been reported for years with scientific instruments and analysis and see if there are supernatural things that pop up and take it from there which should lead you 1 step closer to proving the possibility of the existence of a deity. Thats just one quick example.
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you have free will, people are free to believe in whatever they want.

are you saying there are no unexplainable things?
 
thebigt said:
you have free will, people are free to believe in whatever they want.

are you saying there are no unexplainable things?
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I was hoping from that statement you quoted you can see Im very open minded about it and support scientific investigative research to both disprove AND prove unexplainable things.

Ive had crazy things happen to me that science will never prove, so yeah Im an atheist but that doesnt mean I dont think its possible there is far more ahead of what we scientifically already know.
 
ax1 said:
I was hoping from that statement you quoted you can see Im very open minded about it and support scientific investigative research to both disprove AND prove unexplainable things.

Ive had crazy things happen to me that science will never prove, so yeah Im an atheist but that doesnt mean I dont think its possible there is far more ahead of what we scientifically already know.
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I am happy that you are keeping an open mind...

I am going out on a limb to say that the more scientists discover the more they realize they don't know.
 
thebigt said:
I am happy that you are keeping an open mind...

I am going out on a limb to say that the more scientists discover the more they realize they don't know.
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Yeah I agree with that, they get somewhere to only be like f' wish I didnt do that now my life is really lost!!!! ROFL!

There are to many stories historically to the modern times that I believe that can potentially prove there is much more than just this life.

Scientifically the way I understand it, nothing comes from nothing and nothing can become nothing. Doesnt make sense that mind comes from a stick or a stone, or some big bang. To me mind always was and always will be there, its energy just like every atom on the planet has an infinite continuity. Now whether individual consciousness itself carries on over to something else I really dont know for sure. What I do know for sure is that everything and everything lasts forever, it cannot become nothing it can only become something else. I wish I knew for sure what that something else is.

Quick rant dont even feel like re-reading that lol
 
ax1 said:
Of course you can, just because you think you cant prove something doesnt mean you cant apply science to prove or disprove the unknown. You can start with experiments in haunted houses, cemeteries and prisons that have been reported for years with scientific instruments and analysis and see if there are supernatural things that pop up and take it from there which should lead you 1 step closer to proving the possibility of the existence of a deity. Thats just one quick example. Doesnt mean you will find answers but its still science imo.
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There is no scientific instrument that can detect supernatural things. If there were, those "things" wouldnt be supernatural. In your example, you could detect random influxes of electromagnetic fields (i think thats what they test for when trying to find "ghosts", im not positive though"), but theres no way to definitely attribute those random things to a supernatural being. Therefore, it isnt really testable to go into one of those environments and say "I think there are supernatural beings in here. Im going to design a test to prove it", these are things that have to be able to be done for it to fall under the term "science". If you said "i think there are random electromagnetic fields that pop up in this environment" then you could test it, but you still cant say those findings are due to ghosts/paranormal activity/whatever.

thebigt said:
I am happy that you are keeping an open mind...

I am going out on a limb to say that the more scientists discover the more they realize they don't know.
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This is 100% correct! No need to even go out onto a limb there. And most scientists welcome this fact as it is what keeps science progressing. With every discovery there are MANY (I wont even try to quantify it) things that can be studied based on the new discovery.
 
jswain34 said:
There is no scientific instrument that can detect supernatural things. If there were, those "things" wouldnt be supernatural. In your example, you could detect random influxes of electromagnetic fields (i think thats what they test for when trying to find "ghosts", im not positive though"), but theres no way to definitely attribute those random things to a supernatural being. Therefore, it isnt really testable to go into one of those environments and say "I think there are supernatural beings in here. Im going to design a test to prove it", these are things that have to be able to be done for it to fall under the term "science".
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So the primary focus would be to further advance technology then, we have quite a ways to go and grow. Doesnt mean we should just give up, and I dont think we ever will the curious species we are. Of course thats all up to an individual scientist to want to be in this field.

I personally dig alien research a bit more.
 
ax1 said:
Scientifically the way I understand it, nothing comes from nothing and nothing can become nothing. Doesnt make sense that mind comes from a stick or a stone, or some big bang. To me mind always was and always will be there, its energy just like every atom on the planet has an infinite continuity. Now whether individual consciousness itself carries on over to something else I really dont know for sure. What I do know for sure is that everything and everything lasts forever, it cannot become nothing it can only become something else. I wish I knew for sure what that something else is.
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"Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it is simply transformed from one form to another". First law of thermodynamics.

I believe it is Hinduism (?) which falls best in line with this. It has been a while since i have watched the show "story of God with Morgan Freeman" though. They had a cool episode where they talked about this sort of thing.
 
ax1 said:
Yeah I agree with that, they get somewhere to only be like f' wish I didnt do that now my life is really lost!!!! ROFL!

There are to many stories historically to the modern times that I believe that can potentially prove there is much more than just this life.

Scientifically the way I understand it, nothing comes from nothing and nothing can become nothing. Doesnt make sense that mind comes from a stick or a stone, or some big bang. To me mind always was and always will be there, its energy just like every atom on the planet has an infinite continuity. Now whether individual consciousness itself carries on over to something else I really dont know for sure. What I do know for sure is that everything and everything lasts forever, it cannot become nothing it can only become something else. I wish I knew for sure what that something else is.

Quick rant dont even feel like re-reading that lol
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judging from this post I think you are more agnostic than atheist...
 
jswain34 said:
"Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it is simply transformed from one form to another". First law of thermodynamics.

I believe it is Hinduism (?) which falls best in line with this. It has been a while since i have watched the show "story of God with Morgan Freeman" though. They had a cool episode where they talked about this sort of thing.
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maybe Taoism?
 
thebigt said:
judging from this post I think you are more agnostic than atheist...
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Actually I just looked up the word "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable."

Now I look at it you might be right because I fit into the second part of that definition.

As you know I hate labeling things....freaking atheist my azz lol

So yeah maybe Im agnostic, I have no problem with that. I still may define myself as atheist in case you see me post that in the future again....maybe "open minded atheist" makes me feel better :)
 
Misfit28 said:
I know what you are saying, but I also think it is more likely that neither of the explanations for the existence of life that you presented are correct.
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Come on...georgio says it’s true.

In all seriousness, there is a wide array of options. Aliens is just one. The god of the OT/NT is another.
 
thebigt said:
maybe Taoism?
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Hey did you hear? Lomanchenko is fighting Rigondeaux the match I though should happen but never happen. Wow...Im rooting for Loma, Ringo is a bit boring but what these are two of the best fighters in all of boxing fighting each other. Too bad it wont earn more money than Gayweather/Conner bullcrap.

Also, Wilder just hooked up with Luis Ortiz which I predict Ortiz knocking out Wilder and taking the title. Nobody wanted to ever fight Ortiz.

I had GGG up a couple rounds over Canelo by the way, 116-113.
 
thebigt said:
lol...I meant that science can neither prove nor [DISPROVE] the existence of something that is beyond the laws of nature.
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How do we know for sure that something is beyond the laws of nature? Specifically when our minds can’t comprehend those laws?
 
AE14 said:
Come on...georgio says it’s true.

In all seriousness, there is a wide array of options. Aliens is just one. The god of the OT/NT is another.
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georgio would tell you they are the same.
 
AE14 said:
How do we know for sure that something is beyond the laws of nature? Specifically when our minds can’t comprehend those laws?
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unwittingly you have made my point...or else it was intentional?

you can't prove or disprove something you can't comprehend, at least I don't think so, lol.
 
ax1 said:
Hey did you hear? Lomanchenko is fighting Rigondeaux the match I though should happen but never happen. Wow...Im rooting for Loma, Ringo is a bit boring but what these are two of the best fighters in all of boxing fighting each other. Too bad it wont earn more money than Gayweather/Conner bullcrap.

Also, Wilder just hooked up with Luis Ortiz which I predict Ortiz knocking out Wilder and taking the title. Nobody wanted to ever fight Ortiz.

I had GGG up a couple rounds over Canelo by the way, 116-113.
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I've got no problem with 116-113 ggg....agree with loma, but you knew I would, lol....disagree about wilder though, I think he is going to have a good showing!!!

loving all these great matchups, about freaking time!!!
 
thebigt said:
I've got no problem with 116-113 ggg....agree with loma, but you knew I would, lol....disagree about wilder though, I think he is going to have a good showing!!!

loving all these great matchups, about freaking time!!!
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Im rooting for Wilder though btw...Im hoping he is our next great American heavyweight and in a year or two we see him in a Megamatch with Anthony Joshua, hoping he does well too.
 
ax1 said:
Im rooting for Wilder though btw...Im hoping he is our next great American heavyweight and in a year or two we see him in a Megamatch with Anthony Joshua, hoping he does well too.
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if wilder improves defense and doesn't get careless he has a good chance, imo.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
That's why there is faith. People shouldn't have to prove what they personally believe in. If people want to start pushing their beliefs on others or into science classrooms, then I speak up. If you try explaining supernatural concepts with natural science, you're going to find they don't mix. You can't prove anything about a religion with psychology. You can show why one person might have faith and another doesn't or how religion affects one person or a group of people, but you're not going to prove the existance of something that is beyond the laws of nature.
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Why wouldn't they mix? Just because modern mainstream science hasn't got to it doesn't mean it isn't real. Plus religion isn't supernatural, it's only perceived that way because it can't be explained as of now.
 
jswain34 said:
Science cannot be applied to the supernatural. It is in the very definition of science, being "the study of the natural world". Topics studied in science must be testable, and as far as I know, there is no test to prove there is a deity.
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Religion isn't supernatural, it's man made. God(or the idea of God) would be supernatural.
 
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On another note this is a interesting experiment.

Juicedeez utz said:
You guys should smoke some DMT. It gives you a completely different perspective of "being" haha
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I've heard some wild things from DMT, yet I've haven't gotten to it. Imo psychedelics aren't for everyone, not everyone has the will power to transcend into their consciousness and/or into the metaphysical world. They can turn a sane man mad.
 
CJNator said:
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On another note this is a interesting experiment.



I've heard some wild things from DMT, yet I've haven't gotten to it. Imo psychedelics aren't for everyone, not everyone has the will power to transcend into their consciousness and/or into the metaphysical world. They can turn a sane man mad.
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This forces you to transcend haha you don't have a choice, you leave your body and hit *the next plane*. I've never heard of anyone going mad from DMT. I think people already have to have something misfiring and psychedelics just push them over the edge. I've had some terrifying/other worldly trips on LSD and shrooms but I'm still here and perfectly normal..... I think
 
CJNator said:
Why wouldn't they mix? Just because modern mainstream science hasn't got to it doesn't mean it isn't real. Plus religion isn't supernatural, it's only perceived that way because it can't be explained as of now.
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I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that people should be able to say "I believe in a higher power" and not have to justify that with scientific evidence. If you start down that path to neededing evidence to back up your beliefs, you tend to end up agnostic or atheist.
 
youngandfree said:
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I've been gone for a while. :)
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You do realize that Trump Tower is a building and Paul Manafort is a man who has been under investigation long before Trump ever decided to run for President right? Unless the FBI has time traveling abilities, I don't see the contradiction.
 
CJNator said:
Religion isn't supernatural, it's man made. God(or the idea of God) would be supernatural.
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Maybe if you actually read everything I wrote in the context that I wrote it, you'd realize I was talking about a deity (or the idea of). Which is supernatural. As you just said.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You do realize that Trump Tower is a building and Paul Manafort is a man who has been under investigation long before Trump ever decided to run for President right? Unless the FBI has time traveling abilities, I don't see the contradiction.
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Manafort had an office in Trump Tower that was apparently wire tapped.
 
youngandfree said:
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I've been gone for a while. :)
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FISA needs to be abolished, there is no due processe and the Constitution does not authorize secret courts. Government created it just to bypass the Constitution. Unfortunately there isnt any accountability and Dump isnt going to do anything to revert to Constitutional law.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that people should be able to say "I believe in a higher power" and not have to justify that with scientific evidence. If you start down that path to neededing evidence to back up your beliefs, you tend to end up agnostic or atheist.
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The Dalai Lama encourages it for Buddhism....but not to necessarily back up beliefs but to also he promotes changing the Buddhist scriptures where it is clearly wrong.

So if you need evidence to back up your beliefs, science is probably the wrong path unless your willing to be flexible with your beliefs.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You do realize that Trump Tower is a building and Paul Manafort is a man who has been under investigation long before Trump ever decided to run for President right? Unless the FBI has time traveling abilities, I don't see the contradiction.
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The real heading should be, "The US government is unconstitutionally spying on Americans and they all belong in the slammer!!!!"
 
Aleksandar37 said:
I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that people should be able to say "I believe in a higher power" and not have to justify that with scientific evidence. If you start down that path to neededing evidence to back up your beliefs, you tend to end up agnostic or atheist.
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Oh ok I understand what you mean and I agree people should be able to believe in a religion without having science backing/interrupting anything within any scriptures but our existence has done more to destroy religion then to spread it so it's already happening. I believe to use science to back up religion or at least the use of religion from a psychological perspective.

This video gives a good grasp on religion and it's importance in society. Invalid Link Removed
 
Juicedeez utz said:
This forces you to transcend haha you don't have a choice, you leave your body and hit *the next plane*. I've never heard of anyone going mad from DMT. I think people already have to have something misfiring and psychedelics just push them over the edge. I've had some terrifying/other worldly trips on LSD and shrooms but I'm still here and perfectly normal..... I think
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Lol you're probably more normalized with the universe rather then the world. What I mean by becoming a mad man is that without any direction in life psychedelics will open up so many doors of knowledge including knowing that you know nothing so if you're in the wrong place in life or have the wrong mindset then you'll appear mad/confused/not normal/etc... I may have a clue or two about psychedelics .
 
^never would have guessed....
 
CJNator said:
Lol you're probably more normalized with the universe rather then the world. What I mean by becoming a mad man is that without any direction in life psychedelics will open up so many doors of knowledge including knowing that you know nothing so if you're in the wrong place in life or have the wrong mindset then you'll appear mad/confused/not normal/etc... I may have a clue or two about psychedelics .
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Well this I completely agree with! Mindset is key, i spilt around 70-80 drops of some acid on me, I thought I was gonna lose my mind when I done it but clung to the right people and rode it out for 3 days, felt a bit weird after for a couple months but not lost haha To be honest I'm a lot more down to earth nowadays, like to listen to/learn from people and hear both sides of a story, I haven't touched anything since the spill! I'd love every politician to have a mandatory DMT or strong mushroom trip before they can be a part of a government so they have a wider perspective haha
 
Aleksandar37 said:
"apparently" huh? No, not based on what we know so far. You're connecting dots that aren't there.
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what would your opinion be if conversations between manafort and trump[while manafort was trump's campaign manager]were passed to the Obama AND Clinton team, and used to aid the Clinton election effort?

damn, I really, really want this to be true, lol.
 
Juicedeez utz said:
Well this I completely agree with! Mindset is key, i spilt around 70-80 drops of some acid on me, I thought I was gonna lose my mind when I done it but clung to the right people and rode it out for 3 days, felt a bit weird after for a couple months but not lost haha To be honest I'm a lot more down to earth nowadays, like to listen to/learn from people and hear both sides of a story, I haven't touched anything since the spill! I'd love every politician to have a mandatory DMT or strong mushroom trip before they can be a part of a government so they have a wider perspective haha
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Haah that would be great, I personally would prefer the common man that has had some usage and knowledge of psychedelics to get into politics. That's insane! Glad you had good people with you at the time and you came out normally.

I heard a story about some guy that had a bunch of tabs in his backpack while it was raining, so the acid absorbed into his spinal cord and he permanently thinks he's a giant glass of orange juice. Not sure how true the story is but if true that really sucks.
 
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