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Donald Trump running for president

ax1 said:
Word, I can relate to that. Also, being black or gay isnt an accomplishment either.
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I agree to a certian point. With being gay that can be depending on the adversity that you had to overcome because of being gay. Although, nowadays there really isn't adversity of being gay anymore. It definitely can be a struggle still for sure but it can definitely be an easier way as well.

Edit. But being gay within its self isn't an accomplishment just like being white black Mexican etc
 
rtmilburn said:
I agree to a certian point. With being gay that can be depending on the adversity that you had to overcome because of being gay. Although, nowadays there really isn't adversity of being gay anymore. It definitely can be a struggle still for sure but it can definitely be an easier way as well.

Edit. But being gay within its self isn't an accomplishment just like being white black Mexican etc
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The thing is why gay diversity is far more significant that military diversity? Why is black slavery remembered, but Irish slavery ignored?

I can understand having a Martin Luther kind day and remembering the heart of the civil rights movement, but black history month? You know they condition you to view yourself as separate people, every year in school we had these assemblies and they would put all the "black" people on stage as if they were like some alien breed that us white folks must understand them better.

Its just constant division.

I support gay rights by the way to the fullest, dont take my points the wrong way.
 
ax1 said:
The thing is why gay diversity is far more significant that military diversity? Why is black slavery remembered, but Irish slavery ignored?

I can understand having a Martin Luther kind day and remembering the heart of the civil rights movement, but black history month? You know they condition you to view yourself as separate people, every year in school we had these assemblies and they would put all the "black" people on stage as if they were like some alien breed that us white folks must understand them better.

Its just constant division.

I support gay rights by the way to the fullest, dont take my points the wrong way.
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No that not what I meant 100% agree with you
 
ax1 said:
The thing is why gay diversity is far more significant that military diversity? Why is black slavery remembered, but Irish slavery ignored?

I can understand having a Martin Luther kind day and remembering the heart of the civil rights movement, but black history month? You know they condition you to view yourself as separate people, every year in school we had these assemblies and they would put all the "black" people on stage as if they were like some alien breed that us white folks must understand them better.

Its just constant division.

I support gay rights by the way to the fullest, dont take my points the wrong way.
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Nothing will ever change until people stop seeing themselves different from other people because of color, gender, and sexual orientation.

Once we all realize that we are all human beings and stop trying to categorize/judge/etc people with those thing the world can change.

It's ok to be different but don't use race gender or sexual orientation to do so.
 
Gutterpump said:
You see, the difference is that, for example, gay people have to overcome great adversity (hate, bigotry, homophobia, years and years of hate/shame/injustice). They are proud because of the adversity they have overcome (and still to this day must overcome). This is the same for any minority group.
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here we go again...so you have to be in a minority group in order to be proud of what you are?

what if you are a white gay, then can you say you are proud to be white?
 
I need to do a lot of reading to catch up, but honestly, as the 'white race', what are you guys proud of?

Are you proud of white privilege? I honestly still don't get what anyone in here is proud of, accomplishment wise, in a racial way. Why are you guys even making pride a race thing? Like y'all whites have it bad or something? White people have so much adversity that we all gotta stick together and be proud?

You proud of your privilege? Please make comments about what makes you "proud of the white race". Not what makes you proud in general.
 
I completely understand black pride, etc. But "white pride"? Seriously guys?

If you're gonna talk about this. Be specific. Not "I'm proud of my mom" etc. not being condescending, just looking for actual facts/arguements that back up your "white pride".
 
Gutterpump said:
I completely understand black pride, etc. But "white pride"? Seriously guys?

If you're gonna talk about this. Be specific. Not "I'm proud of my mom" etc. not being condescending, just looking for actual facts/arguements that back up your "white pride".
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WHITE PRIDE IS A POOR EXCUSE FOR RACISM AND IGNORANCE. Black pride is only a cry for freedom and the end to oppression.
Duh, everyone knows that.
 
I'm being serious in here. If people want to say this type of $hit, I want to hear real reasons. Not "I'm proud of my mom n pops, and where I come from". So far nobody has given specific reasons for their "white pride" that has anything to do with the white race as a whole.
 
Gutterpump said:
I'm being serious in here. If people want to say this type of $hit, I want to hear real reasons. Not "I'm proud of my mom n pops, and where I come from". So far nobody has given specific reasons for their "white pride" that has anything to do with the white race as a whole.
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So what is black pride about then?
 
Gutterpump said:
I completely understand black pride, etc. But "white pride"? Seriously guys?

If you're gonna talk about this. Be specific. Not "I'm proud of my mom" etc. not being condescending, just looking for actual facts/arguements that back up your "white pride".
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Then for you to call them racist, are you for real?

I for one am proud to be English, you can be white, black, asian or even a martian and be proud to be born English there are no bars to this but what happens over here is when a white person expresses this they are generally referred to being racists, xenophobics etc by the likes of you, calling those that voted to leave 'Right Wing Nationalists'

White Power is a completely different issue!
 
Gutterpump said:
I completely understand black pride, etc. But "white pride"? Seriously guys?

If you're gonna talk about this. Be specific. Not "I'm proud of my mom" etc. not being condescending, just looking for actual facts/arguements that back up your "white pride".
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So it's ok to be proud to be black, but not white? Why is that?

The second you proclaim one is greater than the other you are going to cause conflict. Many people use "white pride" as a means of devaluing a black person's life and not for the purpose of equality. That becomes a racial issue whereas simply being proud of who you are and where you come from is completely OK.

My british heritage is that of conquest, exploration, invention, etc. and sure it has its negatives but it also has positives. My NZ heritage is one of the only countries where the indigenous people's rights have been greatly respected and where they often gain privilege for 'being here first'. I'm proud that my heritage has that and that as a nation, we allow people certain privileges.

Can germans be proud of being German for Hitlers influence?

Can Norweigans be proud of their heritage for vikings who raped and pillaged different nations?

Italians for their role in slavery?

Egyptians and slavery?

You can name almost any race and find problems, but at the same time those great empires served to shape the modern world. Every single person on this planet has somehing to be proud of, simply being who you are. Who are you to take that away from anyone?
 
Gutterpump said:
I'm being serious in here. If people want to say this type of $hit, I want to hear real reasons. Not "I'm proud of my mom n pops, and where I come from". So far nobody has given specific reasons for their "white pride" that has anything to do with the white race as a whole.
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If we're running strictly with the definition(s) from Merriam Webster,
a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people
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people of every color should have pride. A white person shouldn't feel like they deserve less respect or should think less of themselves (or their accomplishments) because of the color of their skin any more than a black person should (and shouldn't be expected to carry some sort of "white guilt"). In this case, I would say that having pride in general is good, white or black.

The second definition is where we start running into trouble,
a feeling that you are more important or better than other people
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as this sort of pride is bad. Period. Equality isn't being better than someone else, it's being treated the same, as equals.

One problem I see is that people inherently assume that black/gay/minority pride always falls under the first definition, while white pride always falls under the second definition. In reality, it isn't so black and white (pun somewhat intended).
 
With the first definition ("good" pride) in mind, one can reasonably see why gays/blacks/minorities put more of an emphasis on their respective "pride," as they feel that they aren't being (or haven't been) respected by other people. With that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a white person also feeling that they deserve respect from others. Are they more likely to already be getting it? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it wrong.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
With the first definition ("good" pride) in mind, one can reasonably see why gays/blacks/minorities put more of an emphasis on their respective "pride," as they feel that they aren't being (or haven't been) respected by other people. With that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a white person also feeling that they deserve respect from others. Are they more likely to already be getting it? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it wrong.
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Feeling 'respectful' and feeling 'prideful' are two very very different things, regardless of what the dictionary says.
 
Gutterpump said:
Feeling 'respectful' and feeling 'prideful' are two very very different things, regardless of what the dictionary says.
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According to YOU. Who are you to tell us that your definition of pride is the only correct one? You are the only one who can be correct. My definition of pride is wrong, and so is the dictionaries. Aren't we all so fortunate to be in the presence of the all-knowing gutterpump!

Take gay pride for example. Society has often made people essentially feel ashamed to be gay; that it is wrong, and, as a result, gay people were/are often ashamed of being gay and/or hid the truth from others. They didn't respect themselves at times, and many times other people didn't respect them. Now, with people advocating gay pride, I would say it's movement to help gay people respect themselves (and not feel ashamed of being gay or that it's something bad/wrong) and that they deserve the same respect from society as a whole. I don't think it's something akin to the same type of pride you would get from winning the Mr. Olympia for example, as being gay is not an accomplishment. There can be multiple definitions of pride...
 
Go on with your white pride then. Stand strong, stand proud! Stand united! You guys in here look like real tools now with this, especially with the way y'all are defending it, without even answering exactly what makes you proud of "the white race".
 
Gutterpump said:
Go on with your white pride then. Stand strong, stand proud! Stand united! You guys in here look like real tools now with this, especially with the way y'all are defending it, without even answering exactly what makes you proud of "the white race".
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You are a real piece of work
 
Taking a break from this thread. We went from a bunch of guys putting differences aside to debate peacefully to becoming biased, prejudiced, racists. Let's get it back on track.
 
Gutterpump said:
Go on with your white pride then. Stand strong, stand proud! Stand united! You guys in here look like real tools now with this, especially with the way y'all are defending it, without even answering exactly what makes you proud of "the white race".
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If we are not meant to be proud, then what are we meant to be? "White Pride" is only negative when you make it to be as such.
 
Jiigzz said:
If we are not meant to be proud, then what are we meant to be? "White Pride" is only negative when you make it to be as such.
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Gutter tends to make everything out to be negative, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised
 
BamBam0319 said:
Gutter tends to make everything out to be negative, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised
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Not at all. Even when bigT tried answering my questions about what he's proud about, I replied in a pretty positive way to him.

Unfortunately, while his reasons to be proud were great, none of them pertained to race/skin color.

Nobody has answered a simple question that I posed: what makes you proud of your white skin color, what makes you proud to specifically be part of the white race? It's not a difficult question to understand but so far it's been dodged by everyone claiming "white pride".
 
Gutterpump said:
Not at all. Even when bigT tried answering my questions about what he's proud about, I replied in a pretty positive way to him.

Unfortunately, while his reasons to be proud were great, none of them pertained to race/skin color.

Nobody has answered a simple question that I posed: what makes you proud of your white skin color, what makes you proud to specifically be part of the white race? It's not a difficult question to understand but so far it's been dodged by everyone claiming "white pride".
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Well why should someone be proud to black, mexican, Asian or any other race then, seriously?

Middle eastern and Africans have the longest history of oppression, slavery, prejudism, and racism. No one mentioned that at all.

Muslim still are and have always killed and put everyone in slavery if they weren't apart of the same religion. Hell even if you were Muslim but from a different tribe they do.

Thb I'm KINDA on your side by not in the way you are. I think no one should he proud of their skin color nor ashamed of it. Once he stop seeing color things can change. However if someone wants to be proud to be what they are there isn't an issue within that, at all. As long as they aren't using that as an excuse to be a bigot/racist. I'm proud of who I'm, but it has nothing to do with my skin color.
 
Gutterpump said:
Can you give me a list of reasons? I've asked several times what makes people proud of their white skin color / white race. Since this is about race, keep your answers about race.
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And before that, I asked you multiple times why we shouldn't be proud of being white. If every other skin color can be proud of the way they were born, why can't we? I'm still waiting on YOUR answer to that.
 
Gutterpump said:
Go on with your white pride then. Stand strong, stand proud! Stand united! You guys in here look like real tools now with this, especially with the way y'all are defending it, without even answering exactly what makes you proud of "the white race".
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This is pretty negative. And you can't deny that a majority of your posts include negative remarks and subtle as well as blatant insults.
 
Gutterpump said:
Can you give me a list of reasons? I've asked several times what makes people proud of their white skin color / white race. Since this is about race, keep your answers about race.
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If people in here who claim "white pride" can answer this in an intelligent way that makes sense, then I believe this conversation would then be over right? There would be no reasons to get nasty, I won't argue with sound reasoning. I've posed a question. I'm not making statements. If people answer me then I do believe the convo would be over.
 
BamBam0319 said:
And before that, I asked you multiple times why we shouldn't be proud of being white. If every other skin color can be proud of the way they were born, why can't we? I'm still waiting on YOUR answer to that.
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Like I said before, I answered this before you even asked it, in a previous post yesterday. Actually, over a couple of posts even. I don't wish to go in circles. My posts are there.
 
Gutterpump said:
Go on with your white pride then. Stand strong, stand proud! Stand united! You guys in here look like real tools now with this, especially with the way y'all are defending it, without even answering exactly what makes you proud of "the white race".
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I told you, but my definition of pride isn't good enough for you. Saying that all white people should harbor some sort of white guilt is nonsense, and I don't feel this guilt or shame over being white, therefore I can be proud to be white, according to my given (dictionary) definition.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I told you, but my definition of pride isn't good enough for you. Saying that all white people should harbor some sort of white guilt is nonsense, and I don't feel this guilt or shame over being white, therefore I can be proud to be white, according to my given (dictionary) definition.
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Look, I'm not making statements here about guilt nor have I whatsoever.

I'm asking a simple question: what makes you proud of your white skin color and race, specifically? It's not a difficult question but it seems to be posing trouble in here. If you have "white pride", simply stating "well I'm allowed to be proud" is not an answer. That's not a reason.
 
Gutterpump said:
Can you give me a list of reasons? I've asked several times what makes people proud of their white skin color / white race. Since this is about race, keep your answers about race.
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No one should feel the need be proud of their colour / race / gender etc they just should not have to / be made to feel ashamed of it, pride really should be about achievements.

My issue is with people (generally bleeding heart liberals) who for instance accuse others who fly the George flag on St Georges Day of being racist for celebrating it but it appears to be ok to celebrate St Patrick's, St Andrew's and St David's Day.
 
If people post their reasons, I won't argue it or be disrespect. I truly want to know, and your reasoning is your own reasoning. I'm going to be civil about this, not here to argue anyone's reasons.
 
mickc1965 said:
No one should feel the need be proud of their colour / race / gender etc they just should not have to / be made to feel ashamed of it, pride really should be about achievements.

My issue is with people (generally bleeding heart liberals) who for instance accuse others who fly the George flag on St Georges Day of being racist for celebrating it but it appears to be ok to celebrate St Patrick's, St Andrew's and St David's Day.
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I completely agree!!
But for those who do claim "white pride", I truly want to know their reasons.
 
Gutterpump said:
Look, I'm not making statements here about guilt nor have I whatsoever.

I'm asking a simple question: what makes you proud of your white skin color and race, specifically? It's not a difficult question but it seems to be posing trouble in here. If you have "white pride", simply stating "well I'm allowed to be proud" is not an answer. That's not a reason.
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I told you that having "a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people" is one definition of pride I prescribe to.

Gay people can have gay pride; they should not be ashamed to be gay, and they deserve other people to respect them and treat them as equals (isn't that exactly what they want)?

If you're talking pride as in a feeling of satisfaction from an accomplishment, why would one be proud to be gay? Isn't it completely out of their control?
 
But if people feel the need to be proud of their skin colour (regardless of what this is) or their race, creed or sexual orientation then should be allowed to be as long as it is not in a hostile or threatening manner to others, however expressing this pride when you are white you are labelled racist and that is a fact
 
Gutterpump said:
Look, I'm not making statements here about guilt nor have I whatsoever.

I'm asking a simple question: what makes you proud of your white skin color and race, specifically? It's not a difficult question but it seems to be posing trouble in here. If you have "white pride", simply stating "well I'm allowed to be proud" is not an answer. That's not a reason.
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I think you are being a little dense on this matter.

Did you know that not all black people have had ancestors who suffered through slavery? You're viewing 'blacks' through the lens of African Americans, but ignoring other majorities elsewhere. I honestly despise using the terms 'black' and 'white' to identify people - in America, they are Americans.

You can be proud of whatever reason you can think of and you don't need someone else's approval to make that so. Again, who are you to say why someone can or cannot be proud?
 
mickc1965 said:
But if people feel the need to be proud of their skin colour (regardless of what this is) or their race, creed or sexual orientation then should be allowed to be as long as it is not in a hostile or threatening manner to others, however expressing this pride when you are white you are labelled racist and that is a fact
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This. The only sort of pride that is really bad is the sort where you feel that you are better than or superior to anyone else.
 
Gutterpump said:
If people post their reasons, I won't argue it or be disrespect. I truly want to know, and your reasoning is your own reasoning. I'm going to be civil about this, not here to argue anyone's reasons.
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If I identify myself as black can I be proud then and free myself from this guilt?
 
In saying that, a lot of 'whites' were part of the movement to abolish slavery as well.
 
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