Donald Trump running for president

ax1 said:
I don't think so, for the most part. Some support the lesser of evils. I like some things he says but this is just an interesting time in America.

Do you support the 2nd amendment?
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Yes, with a few caveats.

I think people interpret the 2nd Amendment in different ways, which is understandable given the language barriers of the antiquated language.

I also think that the time period played an important role in the crafting of the amendment. The world was a much "smaller" place than it was in 1791, not to mention the fact that the founding fathers had no idea or concept of the weapons that are currently available to the general public.

I think the real problem is much deeper than just the 2nd Amendment. In my opinion, guns have become so central in our culture and violence has been at times applauded so often that we have lost sight of what "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" even means any more.

However, humans will always kill humans, unfortunately. If I had my way, no human being would ever kill another human being and weapons wouldn't have any use. But I know that's impossible. I just want my family to be safe without having to own a firearm.

Don't get me wrong, it has been fun to shoot a gun in the past. I just don't feel a "need" to own something that has no other real purpose than to inflict harm or death on something or someone. Owning a gun honestly doesn't cross my mind until someone talks about it, honesty. There are much better and productive things to think about, IMO.The bottom line to me is this: To each their own, as long as you don't put myself or my family in harm's way.

I also really dislike it when people say, "If it hadn't been a gun-free zone, that many people wouldn't have died.", when referring to mass shootings. That's a horse**** statement, IMO. That's another issue though, so I'll leave it at that for now :)
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, with a few caveats.

I think people interpret the 2nd Amendment in different ways, which is understandable given the language barriers of the antiquated language.

I also think that the time period played an important role in the crafting of the amendment. The world was a much "smaller" place than it was in 1791, not to mention the fact that the founding fathers had no idea or concept of the weapons that are currently available to the general public.

I think the real problem is much deeper than just the 2nd Amendment. In my opinion, guns have become so central in our culture and violence has been at times applauded so often that we have lost sight of what "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" even means any more.

However, humans will always kill humans, unfortunately. If I had my way, no human being would ever kill another human being and weapons wouldn't have any use. But I know that's impossible. I just want my family to be safe without having to own a firearm.

Don't get me wrong, it has been fun to shoot a gun in the past. I just don't feel a "need" to own something that has no other real purpose than to inflict harm or death on something or someone. Owning a gun honestly doesn't cross my mind until someone talks about it, honesty. There are much better and productive things to think about, IMO.The bottom line to me is this: To each their own, as long as you don't put myself or my family in harm's way.

I also really dislike it when people say, "If it hadn't been a gun-free zone, that many people wouldn't have died.", when referring to mass shootings. That's a horse**** statement, IMO. That's another issue though, so I'll leave it at that for now :)
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Again as quoted earlier, FBI stats show less than 9000 people murdered by guns last year, 21,000 or so committed suicide with guns. So there total numbers are less than 35,000 being generous.

Planned parenthood killed 300,000+ babies last year. 1,000 people per day die at the hands of doctors **** ups. It's not as bad as you think or Obama wants you to believe.
 
youngandfree said:
Again as quoted earlier, FBI stats show less than 9000 people murdered by guns last year, 21,000 or so committed suicide with guns. So there total numbers are less than 35,000 being generous.

Planned parenthood killed 300,000+ babies last year. 1,000 people per day die at the hands of doctors **** ups. It's not as bad as you think or Obama wants you to believe.
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Do you have a child?
 
youngandfree said:
Again as quoted earlier, FBI stats show less than 9000 people murdered by guns last year, 21,000 or so committed suicide with guns. So there total numbers are less than 35,000 being generous.

Planned parenthood killed 300,000+ babies last year. 1,000 people per day die at the hands of doctors **** ups. It's not as bad as you think or Obama wants you to believe.
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And how many would die if there were no doctors?
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, with a few caveats.

I think people interpret the 2nd Amendment in different ways, which is understandable given the language barriers of the antiquated language.

I also think that the time period played an important role in the crafting of the amendment. The world was a much "smaller" place than it was in 1791, not to mention the fact that the founding fathers had no idea or concept of the weapons that are currently available to the general public.

I think the real problem is much deeper than just the 2nd Amendment. In my opinion, guns have become so central in our culture and violence has been at times applauded so often that we have lost sight of what "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" even means any more.

However, humans will always kill humans, unfortunately. If I had my way, no human being would ever kill another human being and weapons wouldn't have any use. But I know that's impossible. I just want my family to be safe without having to own a firearm.

Don't get me wrong, it has been fun to shoot a gun in the past. I just don't feel a "need" to own something that has no other real purpose than to inflict harm or death on something or someone. Owning a gun honestly doesn't cross my mind until someone talks about it, honesty. There are much better and productive things to think about, IMO.The bottom line to me is this: To each their own, as long as you don't put myself or my family in harm's way.

I also really dislike it when people say, "If it hadn't been a gun-free zone, that many people wouldn't have died.", when referring to mass shootings. That's a horse**** statement, IMO. That's another issue though, so I'll leave it at that for now :)
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Thank you for taking the time to put all that out!
 
youngandfree said:
Again as quoted earlier, FBI stats show less than 9000 people murdered by guns last year, 21,000 or so committed suicide with guns. So there total numbers are less than 35,000 being generous.

Planned parenthood killed 300,000+ babies last year. 1,000 people per day die at the hands of doctors **** ups. It's not as bad as you think or Obama wants you to believe.
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I also find it interesting that right wing gun enthusiasts think that it is OK to infringe upon the reproductive rights of women, but when it comes to guns, they go insane.
 
youngandfree said:
Again as quoted earlier, FBI stats show less than 9000 people murdered by guns last year, 21,000 or so committed suicide with guns. So there total numbers are less than 35,000 being generous.

Planned parenthood killed 300,000+ babies last year. 1,000 people per day die at the hands of doctors **** ups. It's not as bad as you think or Obama wants you to believe.
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And think about what you just said. You are basically saying that it is acceptable for 30,000 people to die by being shot with a gun. Oh, and the doctors you mentioned killing people? I'm pretty sure they didn't intend for that to happen.
 
Misfit28 said:
Thanks! I took a few minutes to think about and craft that, so it made me a little irritated when that other guy just re-posted some stats :mad:

LOL.
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Don't get irritated. This thread has been primarily heavy duty debating so the mindset is still there for that lol.
 
ax1 said:
Don't get irritated. This thread has been primarily heavy duty debating so the mindset is still there for that lol.
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This thread pissed me off my first few days in it. But after I realized I wasn't converting anybody or anything, I have used it to actually learn other perspectives and hopefully show some perspectives as well.
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, with a few caveats.

I think people interpret the 2nd Amendment in different ways, which is understandable given the language barriers of the antiquated language.

I also think that the time period played an important role in the crafting of the amendment. The world was a much "smaller" place than it was in 1791, not to mention the fact that the founding fathers had no idea or concept of the weapons that are currently available to the general public.

I think the real problem is much deeper than just the 2nd Amendment. In my opinion, guns have become so central in our culture and violence has been at times applauded so often that we have lost sight of what "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" even means any more.

However, humans will always kill humans, unfortunately. If I had my way, no human being would ever kill another human being and weapons wouldn't have any use. But I know that's impossible. I just want my family to be safe without having to own a firearm.

Don't get me wrong, it has been fun to shoot a gun in the past. I just don't feel a "need" to own something that has no other real purpose than to inflict harm or death on something or someone. Owning a gun honestly doesn't cross my mind until someone talks about it, honesty. There are much better and productive things to think about, IMO.The bottom line to me is this: To each their own, as long as you don't put myself or my family in harm's way.

I also really dislike it when people say, "If it hadn't been a gun-free zone, that many people wouldn't have died.", when referring to mass shootings. That's a horse**** statement, IMO. That's another issue though, so I'll leave it at that for now :)
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I respect your views and I agree its way deeper then just guns. I believe religions and statism has made so we forget that we are all human, kids are being indoctrinated into cults(both statism and religion) and grow up believing people are evil if they live somewhere else or believe in a different religion.

Also gun free zones only create victims, logically speaking and I believe statistically too.

Misfit28 said:
And think about what you just said. You are basically saying that it is acceptable for 30,000 people to die by being shot with a gun. Oh, and the doctors you mentioned killing people? I'm pretty sure they didn't intend for that to happen.
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I believe he is just stating that if people really focused on people kills people they should look at PPH not guns, a bit of a right wing stawman IMO.
 
Misfit28 said:
And think about what you just said. You are basically saying that it is acceptable for 30,000 people to die by being shot with a gun. Oh, and the doctors you mentioned killing people? I'm pretty sure they didn't intend for that to happen.
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I know you haven't read the whole thread so I won't bother rehashing again. My dad died needlessly by the lazines of the doctors working in him when he was taken to the ER.

If you just want to save 1 person, then why don't you or anyone else look at what's killing the most people every year.
 
Dma378 said:
This thread pissed me off my first few days in it. But after I realized I wasn't converting anybody or anything, I have used it to actually learn other perspectives and hopefully show some perspectives as well.
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Yup...if it wasn't for those things what's the point? End of the day it's about elevating knowledge in one way or another.
 
CJNator said:
I respect your views and I agree its way deeper then just guns. I believe religions and statism has made so we forget that we are all human, kids are being indoctrinated into cults(both statism and religion) and grow up believing people are evil if they live somewhere else or believe in a different religion.

Also gun free zones only create victims, logically speaking and I believe statistically too.



I believe he is just stating that if people really focused on people kills people they should look at PPH not guns, a bit of a right wing stawman IMO.
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I'll have to look at the gun free zone thing, but I absolutely agree with everything else you said. Thanks for being respectful :)

I really try to look at other perspectives as well, but I guess some people get on my nerves with their style of presentation :D
 
youngandfree said:
I know you haven't read the whole thread so I won't bother rehashing again. My dad died needlessly by the lazines of the doctors working in him when he was taken to the ER.

If you just want to save 1 person, then why don't you or anyone else look at what's killing the most people every year.
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Sorry to hear about that. I'll try to look back at the thread and read the story.
 
youngandfree said:
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One of the main reasons that the department I am working in at my job exists: EHR improvement.

I'm actually a medical anthropologist by training, and I work on projects interviewing patients about various issues: information needs of patients, care coordination, diabetes patient adherence, cardiovascular illness recovery, etc.
 
The bad part is my dad was taken to the best ER in SW Virginia. I could count the number of patients in the 50+ bed facility on 2 hands that night.

I know a guy that almost died when he needed a heart valve replacement at same hospital. Luckily he was able to atrang r a transfer to UVA medical center to finally have procedure done. A second co-worker had a mother in law they found had a leaky valve, at same hospital. He called first guy to ask if it was the same issue he had, and guy said get her out of there. He didnt. She had a valve replacement done and has been in a coma for 60 days. She finally mumbled 1 word last week. She should have been up walking in 2 days.

The real ****ty part is that both my parents retired with 40 years of service in non clinics jobs. It's the largest employer in my hometown. If I thought it wouldn't tear apart my family, I would be pursuing a wrongful death case.
 
New_Jedi said:
No they were not. They did it because they are greedy. Under single payer we could cut them out completely. We don't need that expense. It's profit for a service that we don't need. In other nations they cap what payments the insurance companies get. That's why their cost is a 3rd of ours. Obamacare was far from perfect, but it was a right wing idea, single payer is what's next.

Just because members of The Iranian government dislike us, doesn't mean we're going to war. Heck, we have members of Congress calling for war with Iran. Doesn't mean we will attack them,

Take a history class, see what the Reagan administration did to the Iranian people. The CIA overthrew a Democratically elected government to install a dictator (yea, great idea.), it's called the Iranian arms contra. We did it to fund illegal wars in South America. We encouraged Saddam to kill millions of Iranians. It's no wonder some hate us.

You know, Patriotism doesn't mean excepting your nations flaws, it means recognizing them and fixing them. Conservatives like to pretend American can do no wrong, but the truth is, we've done a lot of ****ty to other nations.
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Amen, if I was religious ;)
 
just as a hypothetical......what if shop owners in ferguson had hired armed security for their businesses....what if when those crooks and thieves had come to loot and burn the armed guards would have opened fire on them......with the national guard standing by they would have to choose a side-I wonder whose side they would have chosen?
 
thebigt said:
just as a hypothetical......what if shop owners in ferguson had hired armed security for their businesses....what if when those crooks and thieves had come to loot and burn the armed guards would have opened fire on them......with the national guard standing by they would have to choose a side-I wonder whose side they would have chosen?
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thebigt said:
just as a hypothetical......what if shop owners in ferguson had hired armed security for their businesses....what if when those crooks and thieves had come to loot and burn the armed guards would have opened fire on them......with the national guard standing by they would have to choose a side-I wonder whose side they would have chosen?
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Its very true. Shop owners in Koreatown LA were jacked to the teeth during the LA riots and were some of the very few that kept their business safe, and that was FAR worse than Furguson.

Its easy to blow down gun rights when in a position in comfort, but during a crisis of social unrest or a war not having proper military grade assault weapons available to the citizens will certainly be far more costly to everyones families.

This is real shyt. Its a powerful statement for the defense of the 2nd amendment.

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thebigt said:
just as a hypothetical......what if shop owners in ferguson had hired armed security for their businesses....what if when those crooks and thieves had come to loot and burn the armed guards would have opened fire on them......with the national guard standing by they would have to choose a side-I wonder whose side they would have chosen?
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Actually, I clearly remember an live interview with gun shop owners in Ferguson hanging out of their stores loaded up and businesses around them were being looted, but nobody was trying to loot the gun shop! lol!!!

Of course, only alternative media will cover this, CNNIA would find this to be bad coverage for the agenda that is needed to take place.
 
ax1 said:
Its very true. Shop owners in Koreatown LA were jacked to the teeth during the LA riots and were some of the very few that kept their business safe, and that was FAR worse than Furguson.

Its easy to blow down gun rights when in a position in comfort, but during a crisis of social unrest or a war not having proper military grade assault weapons available to the citizens will certainly be far more costly to everyones families.

This is real shyt. Its a powerful statement for the defense of the 2nd amendment.

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hell yeah...best argument for guns ever!!!
 
youngandfree said:
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One of the problems is dealing with who decides if your are "mentally incompetent" or not. And what is their definition of mentally incompetent. Go back to obamacare, and the doctors that started asking patients if you owned guns. Now a doctor can report you as unstable to the FBI with no recourse. Brandon Raub was kidnapped after some Facebook posts and held for says with ZERO CHARGES ever filed. As another part of this, if a veteran or physically disabled person has a fiduciary to handle their finances because it's just a pain in the ass due to physical injuries, say a couple missing legs, the VA declares them mentally incompetent. Which now gets imported over to the NCIS and a citizen can now be denied their right to purchase a firearm. In Cali, the new law says anyone can report a family member that you "think" is unstable and has guns, and the police are required to come confiscate your guns. Remember the due process of facing your accusers? Gone.

That's just a single part of the problem with his whole charade.
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No doctor has ever asked me if I own a gun. I have yet to get the pat down or microwave scanner at the airport, guy has just waved me right through the metal scanner. Not saying it's not a problem. These things exist and that's bad enough. Just has not hit me yet.
 
Otheridstaken said:
No doctor has ever asked me if I own a gun. I have yet to get the pat down or microwave scanner at the airport, guy has just waved me right through the metal scanner. Not saying it's not a problem. These things exist and that's bad enough. Just has hit me yet.
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Ive been through both....I used to do the opt out and twice they crushed my testicles with their hands. I mean, crushed, like hurt I almost yelled. Balls were sore for a while too.

Federalization of doctors is only incrementally going to happen over time, not all will necessarily comply thats for sure, docs got morals too.
 
I keep thinking about those Koreans and the LA riots....:numbered::numbered:
 
thebigt said:
I keep thinking about those Koreans and the LA riots....:numbered::numbered:
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Koreatown gunman

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Loaded "Bucketman" at LA riots and the world of Social Justice Warriors

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I know that the Native Americans from there want them out. I certainly can't blame them, as the area being occupied by the ranchers was their land before we took it from them.
 
Misfit28 said:
I know that the Native Americans from there want them out. I certainly can't blame them, as the area being occupied by the ranchers was their land before we took it from them.
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Everytime people throw that Native American softball in I have no defense, lol. I say better them than the Fed.
 
Misfit28 said:
I know that the Native Americans from there want them out. I certainly can't blame them, as the area being occupied by the ranchers was their land before we took it from them.
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my wife says she wants Obama gone more than the ranchers!!!!
 
On a relevant note regarding the ranchers....

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I know this occurred in 2002, but look at the difference it makes when you are not white.
 
Misfit28 said:
Well, since he was elected she will just have to deal with it until next January :P
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yes, and she is not happy about the last minute things Obama is trying to get passed...she dislikes Obama even more than me!!!
 
Misfit28 said:
On a relevant note regarding the ranchers....

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I know this occurred in 2002, but look at the difference it makes when you are not white.
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my wife is Cherokee!!!
 
Gutterpump said:
Ahhh I mixed it up from what you were saying before, you lived there for a while instead :)
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I was married to a philapina for a short time, but it was annulled....philipine law dictates you can only be married once and she had been married before. I have led an interesting life, to be sure, lol!!!
 
On the topic of weapons, anyone here use compound bows? I've been thinking of joining up at this big archery club in Brooklyn.

I'm more of a fan of classic weaponry (knife throwing, archery, etc), and less of guns. I have a friend who works at an axe throwing club too lol. Fun times when you feel like channeling your inner viking :D
 
Gutterpump said:
On the topic of weapons, anyone here use compound bows? I've been thinking of joining up at this big archery club in Brooklyn.

I'm more of a fan of classic weaponry (knife throwing, archery, etc), and less of guns. I have a friend who works at an axe throwing club too lol. Fun times when you feel like channeling your inner viking :D
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if you mistakenly miss and hit someone with an arrow Obama will be looking to outlaw bows too, lol!!!

oh my...don't let Obama find out you are throwing axes!!!:shocked:
 
Gutterpump said:
On the topic of weapons, anyone here use compound bows? I've been thinking of joining up at this big archery club in Brooklyn.

I'm more of a fan of classic weaponry (knife throwing, archery, etc), and less of guns. I have a friend who works at an axe throwing club too lol. Fun times when you feel like channeling your inner viking :D
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Oh my, you must hate children...and women too!
 
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