Donald Trump running for president

Woody said:
Did he say that? You can't have ANY gun? I don't think he has.
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He is certainly making it harder for people to own a gun in the first place. Its getting worse, for example he just announced he wants the 47,000 people on the "No Fly List" banned from owning guns. There are alot of innocent people on that list, no due process which is unconstitutional. Most shouldnt be on there. Kids are on that list. U.S. Marines, congressmen, journalists, nuns, as well as federal air marshals are on that list. Its crazy I know, but Obama is a crazy blood thirsty war mongering power hungry dictator.
 
ax1 said:
He is certainly making it harder for people to own a gun in the first place. Its getting worse, for example he just announced he wants the 47,000 people on the "No Fly List" banned from owning guns. There are alot of innocent people on that list, no due process which is unconstitutional. Kids are on that list. U.S. Marines, congressmen, journalists, nuns, as well as federal air marshals are on that list. Its crazy I know, but Obama is a crazy blood thirsty war mongering power hungry dictator.
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Are you under the impression I am a die-hard Obama supporter?

I've not once stood up for any of his policies. I've just pointed out fallacies in arguments against him. I'm being objective.
You can't equate wanting to ban assault rifles and people on the know fly list to banning ALL fire arms. They are not the same. It is an argument that makes you look stupid.
 
ax1 said:
He went to school in Indonesia which may have influence in regards to that. Indonesia is the biggest Muslim country in the world.

As far as his religious beliefs, his lack of human ethics in his Presidency leads me to believe even if he thought he was a christian, he is not a christian.
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Last sentence = 99% of self proclaimed.

Aside from Carson, which repub candidate actually acts like a Christian they claim to be? If you can't see that the republicans monopolization of so-called Christianity is a scam to earn the votes. Please logically show me the biblical policies they endorse minus abortion. Wake up "actual" Christians, this party is manipulating you. Without you they're nothing.
 
Woody said:
Yep.
I live in Texas. I was born and raised around them. I do not, however, hunt. Too damn early for me.
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I thought you might have been a non-gun guy. Good to hear you're not. We're all entitled to our opinions, and mine is that some of his ideas are a gateway to stricter legislation, with confiscation as the end goal. Maybe a ridiculous fear, but one that I have.

I used to do a lot of hunting in my younger days. Any more, I'm just not into killing animals (but have zero problems with those who want to). Still do a bunch of target shooting. You can sleep as late as you want!
 
The party who wants to have less guns, less war, help the poor, accept human beings, exhibit tolerance, earth/environment living, etc. has been twisted into the antichrist. While the party of the rich, intolerant, war mongering, gun loving, xenophobes has been sold to you as the party of Jesus Christ himself. What a freaking joke.

Both parties are a scam, but Jeezus Krist, I can't even make the logical connection. Religion and politics and logic are molded to what groups want them to be. Fuk logic goes right out the window.
 
Woody said:
.......... It is an argument that makes you look stupid.
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I think that's a little uncalled for. Here we are, having an intelligent debate on opinions and that becomes your argument? I had expected better from you.
 
Oh, say can you see by the dawn’s early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O’er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
‘Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


Francis scott key 1814
 
Dma378 said:
The party who wants to have less guns, less war, help the poor, accept human beings, exhibit tolerance, earth/environment living, etc. has been twisted into the antichrist. While the party of the rich, intolerant, war mongering, gun loving, xenophobes has been sold to you as the party of Jesus Christ himself. What a freaking joke.

Both parties are a scam, but Jeezus Krist, I can't even make the logical connection. Religion and politics and logic are molded to what groups want them to be. Fuk logic goes right out the window.
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/^^^^^\ this made my day !!!!
 
Woody said:
Are you under the impression I am a die-hard Obama supporter?

I've not once stood up for any of his policies. I've just pointed out fallacies in arguments against him. I'm being objective.
You can't equate wanting to ban assault rifles and people on the know fly list to banning ALL fire arms. They are not the same. It is an argument that makes you look stupid.
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Stop taking things so personal here and counter with personal insults. Stick to the debate.

And no, I have no idea if you like Obama or not, I just dont like him. If you dont like him as much as I dont like him, Im going to try to convince you he is worse than you originally thought, lol.

He wants to severely restrict alot of people and ban them from owning ALL fire arms. We have 47,000 he already plans to restrict them of their Constitutional rights and ban them from owning ALL firearms.

He said it out of his own mouth Sunday night. “To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a No-Fly List is able to buy a gun,”

So if you think I look stupid because Im equating the a gun ban to the no fly list so be it, but its Obama's fault. I know its not nation wide but incrementally stripping our constitutional rights is never a good thing
 
I'm not taking things personal. I suppose its hard to convey tone on a forum.

If you believe a ban on assault rifles is the same as a ban on all guns, I don't feel bad for calling you stupid. It is not the same. You can own pistols. You can own rifles. You can own shotguns. Those are firearms. Which you can own. Despite 'ALL' being banned.

Sure, regulation of any kind can lead to more and more regulation. The same can be said about deregulation. Having ZERO gun control is a bad idea. In fact, it is a down right terrible idea. Can you get guns on the black market? Sure. You can buy a liver on the black market. You can buy heroin. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate government interest.

As far as the do not fly list. There are also a lot of suspected terrorists on the list.
 
Woody said:
I'm not taking things personal. I suppose its hard to convey tone on a forum.

If you believe a ban on assault rifles is the same as a ban on all guns, I don't feel bad for calling you stupid. It is not the same. You can own pistols. You can own rifles. You can own shotguns. Those are firearms. Which you can own. Despite 'ALL' being banned.

Sure, regulation of any kind can lead to more and more regulation. The same can be said about deregulation. Having ZERO gun control is a bad idea. In fact, it is a down right terrible idea. Can you get guns on the black market? Sure. You can buy a liver on the black market. You can buy heroin. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate government interest.

As far as the do not fly list. There are also a lot of suspected terrorists on the list.
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I don't think you realize how hard the government has made it to get a concealed carry license.
 
Maybe it's time for a break. We should all go back to guessing the next PES Select flavor.
 
Woody said:
I'm not taking things personal. I suppose its hard to convey tone on a forum.

If you believe a ban on assault rifles is the same as a ban on all guns, I don't feel bad for calling you stupid. It is not the same. You can own pistols. You can own rifles. You can own shotguns. Those are firearms. Which you can own. Despite 'ALL' being banned.

Sure, regulation of any kind can lead to more and more regulation. The same can be said about deregulation. Having ZERO gun control is a bad idea. In fact, it is a down right terrible idea. Can you get guns on the black market? Sure. You can buy a liver on the black market. You can buy heroin. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate government interest.

As far as the do not fly list. There are also a lot of suspected terrorists on the list.
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But how can God's war and will be fought without assault rifles in the hands of the most unqualified gullible clowns? As long as there is a religious backing to fear, war and hate, there will be no end.

Get me an atheist in office ASAP.
 
I am an LGBT supporter. I am also a gun owner. I believe in prison reform, education reform, and welfare reform. I don't think Muslims and Muslim extremist are the same. I believe we have been at war with Islam since forever, and you cannot kill an ideology going back thousands of years with far. That being said, i believe ISIS should be eradicated.
 
Woody said:
I am an LGBT supporter. I am also a gun owner. I believe in prison reform, education reform, and welfare reform. I don't think Muslims and Muslim extremist are the same. I believe we have been at war with Islam since forever, and you cannot kill an ideology going back thousands of years with far. That being said, i believe ISIS should be eradicated.
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Christianity did this through the inquisition. Believe or die. End up beheaded with your head on a stake in the town square, burn your families house down. Yeah I'd convert too.

This is the Islam inquisition. Time for the rest of the world to put it in check. I'm also a liberal, but I see all religion as the problem. Extremist or moderate. They potentiate extremism, therefore pose a threat.
 
SFreed said:
I know I'll regret it, but to whom are you referring?
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Unqualified people basically. I don't know you or your level of common sense, intelligence, or anything. But can you tell me that you don't think there are a few thousand guns in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them? Legally.

I'm not anti gun. I'm anti idiot.
 
Woody said:
I'm not taking things personal. I suppose its hard to convey tone on a forum.

If you believe a ban on assault rifles is the same as a ban on all guns, I don't feel bad for calling you stupid. It is not the same. You can own pistols. You can own rifles. You can own shotguns. Those are firearms. Which you can own. Despite 'ALL' being banned.

Sure, regulation of any kind can lead to more and more regulation. The same can be said about deregulation. Having ZERO gun control is a bad idea. In fact, it is a down right terrible idea. Can you get guns on the black market? Sure. You can buy a liver on the black market. You can buy heroin. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate government interest.

As far as the do not fly list. There are also a lot of suspected terrorists on the list.
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Government consistently infringes our rights, if you let them incrementally take them away there are plenty of polititions that would love to take them all away like Dian Feinstein of Cali. It wouldnt suprise me if Obama would love to take them all away too, he is a pathetic liar and always has a hidden agenda.

Obama is incriminating people with his No fly list and his secret "Kill List" without due process and should be removed from office for abusive powers. I dont care if the both lists have only 1 person, thats too much.

Its not guilty until proven innocent, its innocent until proven guilty. I could care less about the no fly list unless there are actual prosecuted criminals on it. Let law enforcement and the FBI do their job the old fashioned way. If they suspect someone is planning an attack they can go to a judge and request a warrant.

We are guaranteed due process under the Constitution, so if Obama wants to strip the guaranteed Constitutional rights of 1 person to me its the same has stripping it from 300 million. Just 1 person that Obama is stripping of their guaranteed rights is a violation of his oath and calls for immediate impeachment.
 
123abcabcabc said:
I don't think you realize how hard the government has made it to get a concealed carry license.
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Yeah...I would love to carry a concealed. Actually I support citizen open carry. Here in NY its impossible for me to get a concealed carry for self defense unless I decide to join law enforcement or something along those lines. Its plain wrong.
 
Dma378 said:
Unqualified people basically. I don't know you or your level of common sense, intelligence, or anything. But can you tell me that you don't think there are a few thousand guns in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them? Legally.

I'm not anti gun. I'm anti idiot.
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Ok.....I can go along with that. The problem is, who decides who gets to and who doesn't? Because it's not ALL going to be black and white. Much like the No Fly List. If you look at SOME of the people on it, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy a gun? Unfortunately, it's an all or nothing deal that I have issues with.
 
SFreed said:
Ok.....I can go along with that. The problem is, who decides who gets to and who doesn't? Because it's not ALL going to be black and white. Much like the No Fly List. If you look at SOME of the people on it, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy a gun? Unfortunately, it's an all or nothing deal that I have issues with.
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You're right it has to be the right set up. But we have no problem for stripping constitutional rights for someone who made a mistake in life. I'm a felon. But I'm not an idiot. I made some mistakes earlier in life that have stripped me of my rights. A fully functioning, opinionated, member of society would-be voter, if I could. I'd also like to own a hand gun to protect my home and family legally. But I can't. You see it's an "all or nothing" mindset for felons.
 
Dma378 said:
You're right it has to be the right set up. But we have no problem for stripping constitutional rights for someone who made a mistake in life. I'm a felon. But I'm not an idiot. I made some mistakes earlier in life that have stripped me of my rights. A fully functioning, opinionated, member of society would-be voter, if I could. I'd also like to own a hand gun to protect my home and family legally. But I can't. You see it's an "all or nothing" mindset for felons.
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If its a felon who didnt commit a violent act, I see no problem allowing full 2nd amendment rights. If a violent criminal we would have to look things over before forming an opinion and look into individual cases.

Rand Paul was pushing to restor Constitutional rights for felons back in 2013. Invalid Link Removed
 
ax1 said:
If its a felon who didnt commit a violent act, I see no problem allowing full 2nd amendment rights. If a violent criminal we would have to look things over before forming an opinion and look into individual cases.

Rand Paul was pushing to restor Constitutional rights for felons back in 2013. Invalid Link Removed
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And to what standard do you hold those individual cases?
 
Nice talk people, hitting the sack you all have a nice and safe night!
 
Dma378 said:
And to what standard do you hold those individual cases?
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I dont know to be honest. Id want to think it over I just dont have an answer, its not easy. I think people can be rehabilitated, but this is damn complicated, lol.

Have a good night!
 
bighulksmash said:
Thats a good question. Attempted murder Conviction vs drug interactions. Thats a good debate.
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And similar considerations, mental health, behavioral past/patterns, a fuuking reference or two, can't be made for anybody else looking to buy a gun? Especially high powered guns. I really don't care if Joe-Bob has a shot gun or 30/30. But if he wants an AR-15 he needs to show that he's capable to some standard and consideration.
 
Dma378 said:
You're right it has to be the right set up. But we have no problem for stripping constitutional rights for someone who made a mistake in life. I'm a felon. But I'm not an idiot. I made some mistakes earlier in life that have stripped me of my rights. A fully functioning, opinionated, member of society would-be voter, if I could. I'd also like to own a hand gun to protect my home and family legally. But I can't. You see it's an "all not nothing" mindset for felons.
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Which also needs to be evaluated by case. I don't know you, but I've read enough of your posts to know that you're not an idiot. Unfortunately, we have people who are in charge that are idiots, and too many people who are afraid of felons, or blacks, or rednecks, or muslims, and feel that they need protected from them. I prefer to make my own decisions based on a persons actions, and can protect my family myself.
 
Just like I can't drive a diesel without a cdl. Why not? I'm a good driver. I can drive a stick. Drive a trailer. I promise. Come on just let me.
 
Dma378 said:
And similar considerations, mental health, behavioral past/patterns, a fuuking reference or two, can't be made for anybody else looking to buy a gun? Especially high powered guns. I really don't care if Joe-Bob has a shot gun or 30/30. But if he wants an AR-15 he needs to show that he's capable to some standard and consideration.
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Exactly! !!
 
SFreed said:
Which also needs to be evaluated by case. I don't know you, but I've read enough of your posts to know that you're not an idiot. Unfortunately, we have people who are in charge that are idiots, and too many people who are afraid of felons, or blacks, or rednecks, or muslims, and feel that they need protected from them. I prefer to make my own decisions based on a persons actions, and can protect my family myself.
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Good point!
 
Dma378 said:
And similar considerations, mental health, behavioral past/patterns, a fuuking reference or two, can't be made for anybody else looking to buy a gun? Especially high powered guns. I really don't care if Joe-Bob has a shot gun or 30/30. But if he wants an AR-15 he needs to show that he's capable to some standard and consideration.
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Which is why people should love CCW permits. For most states (all but 7), you have to pass an extensive background check (state and federal in some states) and submit fingerprints, as well as demonstrating marksmanship skills and pass classroom testing. They know who you are and what you have. I have possessed a Concealed Carry Permit for 22 years.
 
SFreed said:
Which is why people should love CCW permits. For most states (all but 7), you have to pass an extensive background check (state and federal in some states) and submit fingerprints, as well as demonstrating marksmanship skills and pass classroom testing. They know who you are and what you have. I have possessed a Concealed Carry Permit for 22 years.
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Totally ok with this. It should be hard. But the qualified, qualify.
 
And I know plenty of people with firearms that shouldn't even have a BB gun. Most of them are people who own one for "self defense", but have rarely if ever shot it.
 
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