Donald Trump running for president

[dixonk]

It costs roughly $3500 per day for a premature baby to stay in the ICU. Assuming no complications, a typical stay can be anywhere from 1-10 weeks, depending on how premature.

So for a week, that costs roughly $24,500. It would be exponentially more if there are complications.

How many people could afford that?

Kids are expensive. Why are they bringing a child into this world if they can’t afford it? If they can’t afford to bring a child into this world why should I be expected to shoulder the burden of said costs of having the child? I have my own fucking problems to deal with. Not sure why people can’t get this.

Why can I do see a doc in the Philippines for 10 bucks without insurance and walk away with a prescription for a couple bucks but with my dumbass govt commanded policy it’s more money? Why? Because the govt can only **** things up. They never fix things and they can’t fix things. Anyone that thinks a govt can fix a problem is an imbecile. Free markets and competition drive down cost. That’s a fact.

 

[ax1]

Kids are expensive. Why are they bringing a child into this world if they can’t afford it? If they can’t afford to bring a child into this world why should I be expected to shoulder the burden of said costs of having the child? I have my own fucking problems to deal with. Not sure why people can’t get this.

Why can I do see a doc in the Philippines for 10 bucks without insurance and walk away with a prescription for a couple bucks but with my dumbass govt commanded policy it’s more money? Why? Because the govt can only **** things up. They never fix things and they can’t fix things. Anyone that thinks a govt can fix a problem is an imbecile. Free markets and competition drive down cost. That’s a fact.

ICU should be run like plastic surgery clinics, little to no government bureaucracy, highly competitive, incentives to offer the best customer service and far more affordable than traditional medical surgeries.

 

[ax1]

How much of a price would you expect to pay under your system for the same care?


Here's a narrative you can use to build your costs: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/cost-saving-tiniest-lives-nicus-versus-prevention/2008-10

Im willing to bet a boatload of money the Journal of Ethics board is a load of hypocritical shyt-tards who vote in big government goblins promising America's babies everything but then turn their heads when the very people they voted in drop bombs of compassion on thousands middle eastern babies and just call it collateral damage, even if those bombs were dropped directly on natal hospitals filled with ICU babies who were already deprived of oxygen tanks and basic medicine because of sanctions and policies that have completely destabilized the joints for decades.

 

[Jiigzz]

Kids are expensive. Why are they bringing a child into this world if they can’t afford it? If they can’t afford to bring a child into this world why should I be expected to shoulder the burden of said costs of having the child? I have my own fucking problems to deal with. Not sure why people can’t get this.

Why can I do see a doc in the Philippines for 10 bucks without insurance and walk away with a prescription for a couple bucks but with my dumbass govt commanded policy it’s more money? Why? Because the govt can only **** things up. They never fix things and they can’t fix things. Anyone that thinks a govt can fix a problem is an imbecile. Free markets and competition drive down cost. That’s a fact.

In some cases, the ICU bill is near a million. Could you afford that cost if that were to happen to you?

The Phillipines healthcare is govt. funded, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

[dixonk]

In some cases, the ICU bill is near a million. Could you afford that cost if that were to happen to you?

The Phillipines healthcare is govt. funded, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

I’ve never been to a govt run healthcare provider in all my years living and going there.

As for the ICU I stand firm in that I don’t expect people to pick up my burden so they shouldn’t expect me to pick up theirs. I am firmly and completely against govt subsidies or any sort of govt program that belongs in the private sector. The govt only knows how to make things worse and there is never a time they have made anything better.

 

[Jiigzz]

Im willing to bet a boatload of money the Journal of Ethics board is a load of hypocritical shyt-tards who vote in big government goblins promising America's babies everything but then turn their heads when the very people they voted in drop bombs of compassion on thousands middle eastern babies and just call it collateral damage, even if those bombs were dropped directly on natal hospitals filled with ICU babies who were already deprived of oxygen tanks and basic medicine because of sanctions and policies that have completely destabilized the joints for decades.

Lol. Ok bud.

 

[ax1]

Lol. Ok bud.

Im serious, its the Journal of Hypocrisy.

Anyways yeah sure medical costs are outrageous here, there are reasons for that stated its really ridiculous but the solution is to get government mostly out of the medical system outside of perhaps consumer protections. Journal of Hypocrisy does not provide any real fiscal solutions.

 

[Jiigzz]

Im serious, its the Journal of Hypocrisy.

Anyways yeah sure medical costs are outrageous here, there are reasons for that stated its really ridiculous but the solution is to get government mostly out of the medical system outside of perhaps consumer protections. Journal of Hypocrisy does not provide any real fiscal solutions.

You clearly do not understand how Journals work. Do you know how many others have that same published piece?

The authors submit to the journals, the journals themselves arent writing the pieces.

Cmon man

 

[Jiigzz]

I’ve never been to a govt run healthcare provider in all my years living and going there.

As for the ICU I stand firm in that I don’t expect people to pick up my burden so they shouldn’t expect me to pick up theirs. I am firmly and completely against govt subsidies or any sort of govt program that belongs in the private sector. The govt only knows how to make things worse and there is never a time they have made anything better.

Ok, but it is govt subsidized for 94% of all their citizens.

On average, a person there makes 7,800NZD per year. So healthcare is cheap, only because you get more for your dollar than they do.

It's expensive for them, which makes it relative.

 

[dixonk]

Ok, but it is govt subsidized for 94% of all their citizens.

On average, a person there makes 7,800NZD per year. So healthcare is cheap, only because you get more for your dollar than they do.

It's expensive for them, which makes it relative.

Lol. Wiki doesn’t seem to have a grasp of the situation there.

 

[Jiigzz]

Lol. Wiki doesn’t seem to have a grasp of the situation there.

I got that from the Phillipine Stats Authority.

 

[dixonk]

I got that from the Phillipine Stats Authority.

You mean the same country that still paper forms and hand writes everything and hasn’t updated a website in 10 years? And propaganda to make people think the govt is taking care of them? My wife’s family may say otherwise...

 

[Jiigzz]

You mean the same country that still paper forms and hand writes everything and hasn’t updated a website in 10 years? And propaganda to make people think the govt is taking care of them? My wife’s family may say otherwise...

Median salary and earning potential are 2 very different things. You might know people who make much, much more than that. The top 10% earn NZD equivalent of 26k. I couldnt even afford to breathe on that.

But that's still what they consider the median.

 

[dixonk]

Median salary and earning potential are 2 very different things. You might know people who make much, much more than that. The top 10% earn NZD equivalent of 26k. I couldnt even afford to breathe on that.

But that's still what they consider the median.

I’m not talking about their incomes. I am talking about the false claim that the govt is helping 94% of its citizens lol. That’s laughable.

 

[ax1]

Ok, but it is govt subsidized for 94% of all their citizens.

On average, a person there makes 7,800NZD per year. So healthcare is cheap, only because you get more for your dollar than they do.

It's expensive for them, which makes it relative.

How much is your healthcare and NZ taxpayers paying for millions of illegal immigrants?

 

[ax1]

How much is your healthcare and NZ taxpayers paying for millions of illegal immigrants?

Let me guess, the US pays for far more illegal criminals health care than the entire population of NZ combined? And we the taxpayer have IRS with guns knocking on our doors if we refuse to pay for criminals?

Do you see how the problems of the US are far different than NZ?

 

[Jiigzz]

How much is your healthcare and NZ taxpayers paying for millions of illegal immigrants?

I pay $15 for a doc visit and $5 for meds.

I had hip dysplasia when I was 8, and stayed for a week in hospital where I had to learn to walk again. Cost my family nothing.

 

[ax1]

I pay $15 for a doc visit and $5 for meds.

I had hip dysplasia when I was 8, and stayed for a week in hospital where I had to learn to walk again. Cost my family nothing.

I meant how much are you paying for illegal immigrants?

On another note what is your taxes like because $15 a visit is a completely deceptive number.

 

[Jiigzz]

Let me guess, the US pays for far more illegal criminals health care than the entire population of NZ combined? And we the taxpayer have IRS with guns knocking on our doors if we refuse to pay for criminals?

Do you see how the problems of the US are far different than NZ?

You strawmanned the heck out of that.

Nowhere have I ever said anyone should pay for illegal immigrants.

 

[ax1]

You strawmanned the heck out of that.

Nowhere have I ever said anyone should pay for illegal immigrants.

Now you understand why we don’t want socialized medicine.

 

[Jiigzz]

I meant how much are you paying for illegal immigrants?

On another note what is your taxes like because $15 a visit is a completely deceptive number.

We use a progressive tax system, so you get taxed at the amounts shown for each dollar you earn above the amount.

So if you earn $100,000, the first $14000 is taxed at 10%, between 14001 and 48000 you get taxed at 17.5%, between 48001 and 70000 you get taxed at 30% and 33% on the dollar above 70,001.

 

[Jiigzz]

Tax spending NZ vs US.

 

[ax1]

We use a progressive tax system, so you get taxed at the amounts shown for each dollar you earn above the amount.

So if you earn $100,000, the first $14000 is taxed at 10%, between 14001 and 48000 you get taxed at 17.5%, between 48001 and 70000 you get taxed at 30% and 33% on the dollar above 70,001.

View attachment 200026

Damn, imagine making $47k a year and then hearing your boss saying your about to get a little payraise? Id tell the boss to Fuq off!!!! LOL

 

[ax1]

Tax spending NZ vs US. View attachment 200027View attachment 200028

Thats an incredibly big budget for the medical system, obviously your doctor visits arent $15 and they still charge you if you never go. At least you dont have 10s of millions of illegal people entering your border draining your tax dollars and ROI.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thats an incredibly big budget for the medical system, obviously your doctor visits arent $15 and they still charge you if you never go. At least you dont have 10s of millions of illegal people entering your border draining your tax dollars and ROI.

You guys spend an almost equitable amount, percentage wise, on healthcare as most developed nations do who have universal healthcare.

 

[ax1]

We use a progressive tax system, so you get taxed at the amounts shown for each dollar you earn above the amount.

So if you earn $100,000, the first $14000 is taxed at 10%, between 14001 and 48000 you get taxed at 17.5%, between 48001 and 70000 you get taxed at 30% and 33% on the dollar above 70,001.

View attachment 200026

So what happens if your a NZer and struggling and the government is stealing 17% of your measly 18k of income and you tell the government, Fuq off its my money, my body, my labor I want to opt out of health care and not pay into it and take my own risks? I will choose what to do with my money, and I think its better for my health to eat well rather than paying into something I dont think Ill need anytime soon?

 

[Jiigzz]

Damn, imagine making $47k a year and then hearing your boss saying your about to get a little payraise? Id tell the boss to Fuq off!!!! LOL

Well only the amount above 48 is taxed at 30%.

 

[ax1]

You guys spend an almost equitable amount, percentage wise, on healthcare as most developed nations do who have universal healthcare.

The whole system here is a giant con job and our government is more corrupt than anything the past 10000 years history of the entire universe.

 

[Jiigzz]

So what happens if your a NZer and struggling and the government is stealing 17% of your measly 18k of income and you tell the government, Fuq off its my money, my body, my labor I want to opt out of health care and not pay into it and take my own risks? I will choose what to do with my money, and I think its better for my health to eat well rather than paying into something I dont think Ill need anytime soon?

 

[ax1]

Well only the amount above 48 is taxed at 30%.

Oh I get it, thats much more fair and I see you did posted that, my fault.

 

[Burnfire]

 

[ax1]

View attachment 200031

So you dont have auto insurance in NZ? Its a simple concept, drive and get insurance.

I was in an accident a few years ago and my auto policy completely covered it and my rehab. Thats free market. Although I had to see several doctors I was getting kicked out of them just because they didnt want to take on accident claims, totally screwed up but thats another story.

 

[Jiigzz]

So what happens if your a NZer and struggling and the government is stealing 17% of your measly 18k of income and you tell the government, Fuq off its my money, my body, my labor I want to opt out of health care and not pay into it and take my own risks? I will choose what to do with my money, and I think its better for my health to eat well rather than paying into something I dont think Ill need anytime soon?

Minimum wage is $17.70, so a full timer will get at least 38k before tax.

 

[Jiigzz]

So what happens if your a NZer and struggling and the government is stealing 17% of your measly 18k of income and you tell the government, Fuq off its my money, my body, my labor I want to opt out of health care and not pay into it and take my own risks? I will choose what to do with my money, and I think its better for my health to eat well rather than paying into something I dont think Ill need anytime soon?

And the first 14k is taxed at 10%, not 17.5%

 

[ax1]

And the first 14k is taxed at 10%, not 17.5%

Being I know what its like to be poor I can still say its immoral to steal ones labor. Its slavery.

 

[Jiigzz]

So you dont have auto insurance in NZ? Its a simple concept, drive and get insurance.

I was in an accident a few years ago and my auto policy completely covered it and my rehab. Thats free market. Although I had to see several doctors I was getting kicked out of them just because they didnt want to take on accident claims, totally screwed up but thats another story.

That's not an NZ post, it's about someone saying they dont need healthcare because they are young and then needing a GoFundMe because they cant get cover for their injuries lol.

And I didn't even go looking for a relevant meme, they're at the front page of any file sharing website. I just opened up one and it was literally near the top

 

[ax1]

That's not an NZ post, it's about someone saying they dont need healthcare because they are young and then needing a GoFundMe because they cant get cover for their injuries lol.

And I didn't even go looking for a relevant meme, they're at the front page of any file sharing website. I just opened up one and it was literally near the top

Well if you drive you are forced to get auto insurance which covers personal medical expenses. Its the law. If they didnt have auto insurance and driving they are breaking the law and need to own up to their crimes.

 

[thebigt]

It costs roughly $3500 per day for a premature baby to stay in the ICU. Assuming no complications, a typical stay can be anywhere from 1-10 weeks, depending on how premature.

So for a week, that costs roughly $24,500. It would be exponentially more if there are complications.

How many people could afford that?

st.jude hospital treats kids for free...my wife and i are on a monthly donation plan. danny thomas started st.judes years ago and daughter marlo serves as national outreach director-even though marlo is a liberal activist respect to her for following up with st.judes...

 

[ax1]

That's not an NZ post, it's about someone saying they dont need healthcare because they are young and then needing a GoFundMe because they cant get cover for their injuries lol.

And I didn't even go looking for a relevant meme, they're at the front page of any file sharing website. I just opened up one and it was literally near the top

Also on another note, if we had a free market health care system medical costs would be a fraction of the cost it is today, it wouldnt be so much of a burden. And if you didnt punish people just for breathing and didnt steal with the power of a gun people would have more money accessible to pay for these types of bills. Also, regardless if auto insurance or not, insurance would be far more affordable for most if it was insurance and not some redesigned health care plan on the guise of the label insurance. Insurance is there just in case something serious like this happens. Its not like Im suggesting there shouldnt be insurance but as far as health care in the USA, there is no "insurance" and thats why its unaffordable for most.

 

[ax1]

st.jude hospital treats kids for free...my wife and i are on a monthly donation plan. danny thomas started st.judes years ago and daughter marlo serves as national outreach director-even though marlo is a liberal activist respect to her for following up with st.judes...

There used to be alot more of that all over the country until government started intervening to save everybody and all these places were either regulated out of business or made it fiscally impossible for them to operate in a charitable manner.

I remember years ago when I was poor I could just go to my local doctors with almost no money and they just said pay what you can and Id pay some $20-$40 for a visit just half what they are asking for. Now a few years ago I showed up for a checkout at the very same place and I got kicked out just because I was in a car accident and they said because I hadnt been there in years I was considered a "new patient." So I was punished for taking good care of myself, wtf??? Eventually I had to admit myself to the ER because no doctors around would accept me....the medical bills ended up in the easy thousands just over stupid shyt. I was hit and the one who hit me their auto insurance covered it of course but what a waste!

 

[thebigt]

There used to be alot more of that all over the country until government started intervening to save everybody and all these places were either regulated out of business or made it fiscally impossible for them to operate in a charitable manner.

I remember years ago when I was poor I could just go to my local doctors with almost no money and they just said pay what you can and Id pay some $20-$40 for a visit just half what they are asking for. Now a few years ago I showed up for a checkout at the very same place and I got kicked out just because I was in a car accident and they said because I hadnt been there in years I was considered a "new patient." So I was punished for taking good care of myself, wtf??? Eventually I had to admit myself to the ER because no doctors around would accept me....the medical bills ended up in the easy thousands just over stupid shyt. I was hit and the one who hit me their auto insurance covered it of course but what a waste!

on a side note--there was a vet about 40 miles from indy in bean blossom, who would treat animals at cost...he would just look at the animal and diagnose based on many years of experience-no labs. he would give meds at cost. people used to drive many miles and wait all day...well the other vets were losing business so they lobbied to shut him down.

no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Jiigzz]

st.jude hospital treats kids for free...my wife and i are on a monthly donation plan. danny thomas started st.judes years ago and daughter marlo serves as national outreach director-even though marlo is a liberal activist respect to her for following up with st.judes...

That's awesome!

 

[Jiigzz]

FWIW, insurance companies (or any publicly traded company for that matter) has priority first and foremost to it's shareholders.

I just don't believe a for-profit industry has your best interests at heart.

 

[HIT4ME]

Good discussion.

My thoughts. Insurance is a casino. The house always wins.

And of course we have high costs if a third person is paying - if I want to sell Jiggzz a roll of toilet paper and everyone had toilet paper insurance - I would just charge $500/roll. Jiggzz wouldn't give a crap because he is happy that he gets toilet paper for $5 through his insurance, regardless so what does he care what I charge? He buys it. The insurance negotiates and pays me $5 and I get $10 a roll. When someone shows up on my doorstep and starts crapping everywhere, I give them a roll and charge them $500 because that is what I "charge" insurance. They don't pay and I get a tax right off that is huge.

And if Jiggzz starts using too much toilet paper they just drop him from the insurance when they start losing money.

No one should ever be forced to gamble.

And the, it costs x amount and you cannot afford that argument is a farce. That is life. I really want a Lamborghini too and I can't afford it. So I don't buy it. If I have a heart attack and it will cost $1M to keep me marginally functional, I will do what all our grandpappy's did and go home without...wherever that home may be. Life ends. Nothing is free. People need to grow up and see reality.

On another note, has anyone researched this mRNA vaccine stuff? It seems pretty cool but I am concerned people with autoimmunity issues may need to be careful...or maybe even people with familial history of such disorders. But I am not trying to spread fear here, I really do not know...it is some pretty deep and crazy science.

 

[THOR 70]

Good discussion.

My thoughts. Insurance is a casino. The house always wins.

And of course we have high costs if a third person is paying - if I want to sell Jiggzz a roll of toilet paper and everyone had toilet paper insurance - I would just charge $500/roll. Jiggzz wouldn't give a crap because he is happy that he gets toilet paper for $5 through his insurance, regardless so what does he care what I charge? He buys it. The insurance negotiates and pays me $5 and I get $10 a roll. When someone shows up on my doorstep and starts crapping everywhere, I give them a roll and charge them $500 because that is what I "charge" insurance. They don't pay and I get a tax right off that is huge.

And if Jiggzz starts using too much toilet paper they just drop him from the insurance when they start losing money.

No one should ever be forced to gamble.

And the, it costs x amount and you cannot afford that argument is a farce. That is life. I really want a Lamborghini too and I can't afford it. So I don't buy it. If I have a heart attack and it will cost $1M to keep me marginally functional, I will do what all our grandpappy's did and go home without...wherever that home may be. Life ends. Nothing is free. People need to grow up and see reality.

On another note, has anyone researched this mRNA vaccine stuff? It seems pretty cool but I am concerned people with autoimmunity issues may need to be careful...or maybe even people with familial history of such disorders. But I am not trying to spread fear here, I really do not know...it is some pretty deep and crazy science.

mRNA is experimental. Serious side effects(like autoimmunity/cancer can/could manifest years down the road and not be able to be attributed to the vaccine. Think epigenetic.

 

[HIT4ME]

mRNA is experimental. Serious side effects(like autoimmunity/cancer can/could manifest years down the road and not be able to be attributed to the vaccine. Think epigenetic.

This is what I am thinking. For instance, your mom has lupus, you are fine...you take mRNA vaccine and have elevated IFN which triggers an aggressive reaponse....and then suddenly 4-5 years down the road you now have lupus and they just say...we don't know it was the vaccine or not. It looks like this platform, until 6 months ago, was considered as being a couple decades away from human usage.

 

[ax1]

FWIW, insurance companies (or any publicly traded company for that matter) has priority first and foremost to it's shareholders.

I just don't believe a for-profit industry has your best interests at heart.

There is nothing really bad with that, its supposed to be a profit company, thats why people are motivated to bring it to the market. As long as nobody enforces anybody to purchase these services consumers can opt to stay away or the insurance markets will correct itself to provide the consumers with the right market cost to risk ratio.

Governments role can be to simply be a consumer protection service perhaps minor regulations on contract clarity and scam protections, etc....

 

[thebigt]

FWIW, insurance companies (or any publicly traded company for that matter) has priority first and foremost to it's shareholders.

I just don't believe a for-profit industry has your best interests at heart.

what is scary is when government ran healthcare costs go so high that they have to start rationing out care....medicare/social security are on the verge of collapse and they want to put everyone including illegals on free medicare?

btw-medicare isn't free for seniors as it is and basic medicare doesn't cover many costs...totally free medicare for all is a disaster in waiting.

 

[sammpedd88]

I pay $15 for a doc visit and $5 for meds.

I had hip dysplasia when I was 8, and stayed for a week in hospital where I had to learn to walk again. Cost my family nothing.

Be glad you aren’t a German Shepherd in the US.

 

[ax1]

FWIW, insurance companies (or any publicly traded company for that matter) has priority first and foremost to it's shareholders.

I just don't believe a for-profit industry has your best interests at heart.

In America when you allow politicians to "give" health care, these elected officials have priority first and foremost to its insurance lobby, and we know where their priorities are.

All you have to do is look at Obobocare, that was all a huge insurance corporate takeover. So much for hope and change.