Does Tudca cancel out effects of other supplements or drugs?

John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
I read somewhere it clears the liver and anything taken around that time it reduces a bit. Like Im taking two prescriptions , both for skin, and take them with tudca, one twice am, and pm, and one three times. Obviously don't believe everything you read, I don't see why it would cancel out or lessen effects. I'm still taking them together
 
John Smeton said:
I read somewhere it clears the liver and anything taken around that time it reduces a bit. Like Im taking two prescriptions , both for skin, and take them with tudca, one twice am, and pm, and one three times. Obviously don't believe everything you read, I don't see why it would cancel out or lessen effects. I'm still taking them together
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What is the biochemical rational for an interaction? Mitochondrial biogenesis/increases survival leading to increased metabolic “clearing” capacity of compounds? I hate when people make unfounded claims...cause then we start weeks of discussion on it lol.
 
I had read that as well about any kind of liver detoxifying supplement. With things like methylated compounds, because the liver can't break it down during the first pass, that's why it's not only potent, but also why it's toxic. In the case of something like that, I believe when you take something to assist your liver the theory is it process that quicker, but like I said I haven't seen any studies to actually prove it either.
 
The problem with general statements about liver detox and such is that the liver is not some simple junk goes in clean goes out. There are a lot of pathways, some with completely different mechanisms of action. Some depend on enzymes from the nucleus some depend on mitochondria some depend on oxidative status etc etc. so just because one pill is said to make the liver “work better”, that gives no detail as to the specific pathway being enhanced, which is what we need to know to be able to determine if an interaction is even theoretical
 
Does anyone know if there is a big “liver pathways” thread on the forum? If someone would start that and post different pathways and such we could really make some analytical headway on true interactions. I know someone on this forum is up for the challenge!
 
nubioso said:
I had read that as well about any kind of liver detoxifying supplement. With things like methylated compounds, because the liver can't break it down during the first pass, that's why it's not only potent, but also why it's toxic. In the case of something like that, I believe when you take something to assist your liver the theory is it process that quicker, but like I said I haven't seen any studies to actually prove it either.
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I would actually expect the opposite, for TUDCA to accelerate absorption of methylated compounds into circulation if the person taking TUDCA was experiencing cholestasis.

Now, that might also increase clearance, but with most drugs the AUC is similar, and not having cholestasis is a good thing.
 
The point of most methylated steroids isn't to be more effective by grinding the liver to a halt and drawing out their absorption over time.

The point of most methylated steroids is to survive that first pass metabolism at all.
 
De__eB said:
The point of most methylated steroids isn't to be more effective by grinding the liver to a halt and drawing out their absorption over time.

The point of most methylated steroids is to survive that first pass metabolism at all.
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You realize that's what I said right? That it can't survive the first pass which extends the life of the substance. Didn't say it had to do with it shutting down the liver, it's the fact that since the liver can't metabolize it, this is what generally makes these compounds liver toxic, from what I understand of course.

As far as your first quote, not sure why it'd increase it though, but again, I have no studies to back it up, nor am I posting my own personal beliefs, just going by what I've also heard.

However, if I'm taking something that's extremely liver toxic, I"ll take the TUDCA or anything else because ultimately, you only have one liver and all. Not like it's going to 100% negate the effects of any AAS or PH.
 
nubioso said:
You realize that's what I said right? That it can't survive the first pass which extends the life of the substance. Didn't say it had to do with it shutting down the liver, it's the fact that since the liver can't metabolize it, this is what generally makes these compounds liver toxic, from what I understand of course.

As far as your first quote, not sure why it'd increase it though, but again, I have no studies to back it up, nor am I posting my own personal beliefs, just going by what I've also heard.

However, if I'm taking something that's extremely liver toxic, I"ll take the TUDCA or anything else because ultimately, you only have one liver and all. Not like it's going to 100% negate the effects of any AAS or PH.
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Because you'd be clearing that first pass faster. The goal is to get as much of a hormone into circulation as possible.

Cholestasis slows down absorption of substances that reach circulation through the hepatic portal vein.
 
De__eB said:
Because you'd be clearing that first pass faster. The goal is to get as much of a hormone into circulation as possible.

Cholestasis slows down absorption of substances that reach circulation through the hepatic portal vein.
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Okay, but I was under the impression that you DONT want it clearing the first pass faster as that just means you'll metabolize it quicker which translates into it out of your system faster. I forgot you started to mention cholestasis though in regards to absorption. I was just commenting purely on TUDCA and it's effects, if any, on AAS and PH.

I'm certainly no genius in organic chemistry though, so I'm just going by what little I do understand.
 
Thank you for commenting everyone

bigdavid said:
What is the biochemical rational for an interaction? Mitochondrial biogenesis/increases survival leading to increased metabolic “clearing” capacity of compounds? I hate when people make unfounded claims...cause then we start weeks of discussion on it lol.
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I dislike it as well. Causes confusion and a lot of mis information out there. id like to see studies on taking tudca, or milk thistle , then take a methl yated like msten.

De__eB said:
Without knowing what drugs you're taking, I'd call it pretty highly unlikely you have an issue with TUDCA/drug absorption.
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taking a run of phera at 30 mgs , doxycycling 200 mgs for gums, teeth, and skin, and and Valacyclovir-3 grams daily-this is a short two weeks run for some bumps that showed up under my neck, Doctor told me the name but I forget

also take a lot of supplements, niacin in form of nicotinic acid, AI Sports cycle support-hawthorn, nac, milk thistle, vit c 3 grams daily, multi, alpha lopiac acid 250 mgs, zinc, mag, kelp iodine, selenium, bcaa's, clomid and trt

nubioso said:
However, if I'm taking something that's extremely liver toxic, I"ll take the TUDCA or anything else because ultimately, you only have one liver and all. Not like it's going to 100% negate the effects of any AAS or PH.
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agreed Tudca is worth it while runnign something 17 alpha methalated like phera

nubioso said:
Okay, but I was under the impression that you DONT want it clearing the first pass faster as that just means you'll metabolize it quicker which translates into it out of your system faster. I forgot you started to mention cholestasis though in regards to absorption. I was just commenting purely on TUDCA and it's effects, if any, on AAS and PH.

I'm certainly no genius in organic chemistry though, so I'm just going by what little I do understand.
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Im not either Im trying to make sense of some of thse big words in this thread.anyways the theory here is that once tudca protects the liver the supplements or drugs taking wont be as effective for a couple hours afterwards because the tudca is preventing this from happening, whether its 10 % or 80 %.

I honestly dont know. I dont think its a big deal though and still think supplements or drugs would till work. As far as discussion, if I see a study that makes sense yes, otherwise, people that have theories, unless proven, could really keep them to themselves to avoid confusion lol
 
A great TUDCA supplement is from CEL. Cost effective and properly dosed.
 
De__eB said:
Because you'd be clearing that first pass faster. The goal is to get as much of a hormone into circulation as possible.

Cholestasis slows down absorption of substances that reach circulation through the hepatic portal vein.
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You are absolutely correct De__eB. TUDCA should (in theory) increase the efficiency and bioavailability of orals steroids, especially methyl's.
 
lol, I'm so damn confused....I'm just going to keep taking my TUDCA and PPC when taking the methyls.

It's good for the liver and it doesn't stop anything from happening so much they don't work, so whatevs! :D
 
nubioso said:
lol, I'm so damn confused....I'm just going to keep taking my TUDCA and PPC when taking the methyls.

It's good for the liver and it doesn't stop anything from happening so much they don't work, so whatevs! :D
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Good for the liver and also great for breaking down fats. I plan on taking TUDCA off-cycle too for general health. Wish the price would come down though, it's relatively expensive.
 
unitas27 said:
You are absolutely correct De__eB. TUDCA should (in theory) increase the efficiency and bioavailability of orals steroids, especially methyl's.
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Cant find the damn thread but I remember Coop saying the same thing.
 
I would love to know the correct answer on this ... better to take methyls with tudca or not at same time?
 
rkmich said:
I would love to know the correct answer on this ... better to take methyls with tudca or not at same time?
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Prob the only thing that can answer this is trying it both ways. Same compound different cycles one with one without tudca? Hard to find information on this that isn’t theoretical. Obviously human perception is skewed and biased but idk how else to answer the question. Honestly I’d say the difference is prob negligible in terms of gains. How much could it actually attenuate the anabolic results either way? Maybe a lb or two? Who knows.
 
And any differences between the two could certainly be equalized by being just a little more anal retentive and working out just a little bit harder at the gym and eating a little bit better... catch my drift? Lol
 
If alcohol can be used as a measuring stick (absolutely no idea - way out my wheelhouse), I would take it after a cycle.

Most critically, these benefits were seen with co-incubation or adminstration of them both at the same time.[62][61] When pre-loaded before ethanolic insult, they have been shown to exacerbate damage to liver cells.[61] These effects may be secondary to alterations in the lipid membrane of cells with TUDCA/UDCA exposure.[63]

Might alleviate alcohol's adverse effects on the liver, but appears to be needed to be taken after drinking and may be damaging if taken before
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Since orals are ingested everyday, co-ingesting the TUDCA might also be considered pre-loading for the next day?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
If alcohol can be used as a measuring stick (absolutely no idea - way out my wheelhouse), I would take it after a cycle.

Since orals are ingested everyday, co-ingesting the TUDCA might also be considered pre-loading for the next day?
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The mechanism by which TUDCA can either prevent or excarberate alcohol-related liver damage is significantly different from how it would inhibit or accelerate steroid absorption into circulation.
 
I never drink on cycle , not even a drink, as obviously one shouldnt , if they are serious and want to most out of the cycle
 
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