Does it matter if you take a pre-bed protein shake at night?

Cheeky Monkey

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In the long run, does it offer any kind of additional benefit in terms of muscle growth or faster recovery or better metabolism? Have you guys noticed any difference in taking a protein shake before going to bed?

Thanks!
 
Afi140

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If I’m bulking and my macros permit I’ll add a pre-bed shake. Overall daily protein intake is more important than timing but I always enjoy a pre-bed shake (as long as I’m not peeing all night )
 

_Endure_

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You are going to get answers across the board. I personally feel I sleep better and recover better with some light protein before bed like cottage cheese or Greek yogurt. I also include cinnamon for the blood sugar stabilization and sleep benefits thereof. Others are going to say you shouldn’t eat anything two hours before bed,
 
Resolve10

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As mentioned overall protein total throughout the day is most important.

Considering I evenly split things for the most part I end up usually eating some 1-2 hours before bed pretty much always.

I don't think it is "needed", but also think it makes sense to have some at least somewhere near when you sleep as long as it doesn't seem to hinder sleep quality.
 

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It's best to not eat before bed. Allowing the intestines time to rest and activate the MMC overnight is wise.
I personally do intermittent fasting; I stop eating at 1PM and fast until the next morning and eat again at around 4-5AM.
Growth hormone and ghrelin will be secreted in an optimal fashion. You'll make better progress in the gym.
 
Cheeky Monkey

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It's best to not eat before bed. Allowing the intestines time to rest and activate the MMC overnight is wise.
I personally do intermittent fasting; I stop eating at 1PM and fast until the next morning and eat again at around 4-5AM.
Growth hormone and ghrelin will be secreted in an optimal fashion. You'll make better progress in the gym.
Sorry, what's MMC?

Also, you fast from 1pm?! Geez bro, how do you last so long?
 
The Solution

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Another great article by SbS for those interested more in learning about meal timing and prebed nutrition.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/chrononutrition/
For those that dont want to read

  1. Circadian biology plays a fundamental role in human health.
  2. Research has shown that nutrient ingestion can impact our “body clocks” in peripheral tissues around the body, suggesting that when we eat our meals can have implications for health via influencing circadian rhythms.
  3. In addition, it has been hypothesized that having a restricted feeding window (time-restricted feeding) can have beneficial impacts on body composition and health, likely via circadian effects at least in some part.
  4. A related hypothesis suggests that the distribution of calories over the day (majority eaten early vs. late) can also have health impacts.
  5. My personal interpretation of the current literature available leads me to tentatively conclude that, in general, the following heuristics would be beneficial for many people to follow: 1) avoid eating during biological night, 2) avoid meals, particularly those high in fat and/or carbohydrates, close to DLMO (or say, at least ~2-3 hours pre-sleep), 3) bias more calories to earlier in the day (i.e. don’t eat a high proportion of your daily calories in the late evening), 4) have consistent meal times and meal frequency from day-to-day, 5) have some restricted feeding window (start with <12 hours per day, but no ideal is yet known), 6) get daylight exposure early in the day and avoid artificial light (blue and green wavelengths of light specifically) as much as is pragmatically reasonable at night.
  6. There are several caveats and exceptions to the above heuristics. Implications may be different for athletes, for those trying to gain weight, for those who such heuristics undermine adherence to nutrition fundamentals, and in situations where social interactions and fun should be prioritized.
 

bcruder

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In the long run, does it offer any kind of additional benefit in terms of muscle growth or faster recovery or better metabolism? Have you guys noticed any difference in taking a protein shake before going to bed?

Thanks!
Timing is FAR more important than total daily intake. When Canadian studies compared those who consumed all of their daily protein for breakfast and those who spread it out throughout the day, the latter deposited measurably more muscle FROM THE SAME TOTAL GRAMS.

That is because animals have NO place to store amino acids except as temporary lean tissue and that process is rate-limited. If one dumps in more protein than can be utilized, the excess is wasted by conversion into glucose. THAT is why the "bros" at the gym claim that they NEED hundreds of grams of protein. The most that one is really going to accumulate per week is 1 kg/2 pounds of lean tissue and that utilizes ONLY 24 grams per day or 1 gram per hour.

EVERY gram that does not become tissue is BURNED, usually by being first converted into glucose.

Growth continues for perhaps 3 days. EVERY hour in which more than one gram is supplied produces NO additional growth. Every hour in which one gram is NOT supplied is a permanent loss.

The same Canadian research found that most dinner intake did not last to the next morning and NEITHER did fast-digesting whey shakes, even 40-60 grams at a serving. Casein consumed at bed time DID deliver the 1-2 grams throughout the night and required only 10-20 gram intake. In the best case, one might require even less.

It also found that full-fat cottage cheese digested more slowly than casein powder and proved far more cost-effective.

Too much protein or carbohydrate DOES raise insulin and reduce GH release BUT muscle growth depends on the isoform of IGF=1 generated within the muscle and it is independent of GH.

Muscle growth is powered by a LOT of glucose, not a lot of protein.
 
ValiantThor08

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Timing is FAR more important than total daily intake. When Canadian studies compared those who consumed all of their daily protein for breakfast and those who spread it out throughout the day, the latter deposited measurably more muscle FROM THE SAME TOTAL GRAMS.

That is because animals have NO place to store amino acids except as temporary lean tissue and that process is rate-limited. If one dumps in more protein than can be utilized, the excess is wasted by conversion into glucose. THAT is why the "bros" at the gym claim that they NEED hundreds of grams of protein. The most that one is really going to accumulate per week is 1 kg/2 pounds of lean tissue and that utilizes ONLY 24 grams per day or 1 gram per hour.

EVERY gram that does not become tissue is BURNED, usually by being first converted into glucose.

Growth continues for perhaps 3 days. EVERY hour in which more than one gram is supplied produces NO additional growth. Every hour in which one gram is NOT supplied is a permanent loss.

The same Canadian research found that most dinner intake did not last to the next morning and NEITHER did fast-digesting whey shakes, even 40-60 grams at a serving. Casein consumed at bed time DID deliver the 1-2 grams throughout the night and required only 10-20 gram intake. In the best case, one might require even less.

It also found that full-fat cottage cheese digested more slowly than casein powder and proved far more cost-effective.

Too much protein or carbohydrate DOES raise insulin and reduce GH release BUT muscle growth depends on the isoform of IGF=1 generated within the muscle and it is independent of GH.

Muscle growth is powered by a LOT of glucose, not a lot of protein.
Very interesting info
 

bcruder

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Very interesting info
It turns out that the workout is powered by glucose, not protein. Muscle fibers contain damaged proteins BUT all of the same amino acids that they contained before workout. That means recovery is powered by glucose, not protein. Tissue synthesis does not require much protein BUT requires a LOT of energy that must come from glucose, probably 5-10 grams of glucose for each gram of new tissue protein.

One can certainly consume a LOT of protein just to have the expensive protein convert into the equivalent of cheap starch. The problem is that the nitrogen, sulfate and phosphate from that protein must be excreted. The kidneys survive a lot longer with 10% or less of calories from protein. Again, only a few grams per day are needed to replace shed cells. Perhaps 20-30 grams are used to build muscle in the best case. Every other gram is burned.

High-protein diet is bad for kidney health: unleashing the taboo | Nephrology Dialysis Transplantation | Oxford Academic
 
ValiantThor08

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It turns out that the workout is powered by glucose, not protein. Muscle fibers contain damaged proteins BUT all of the same amino acids that they contained before workout. That means recovery is powered by glucose, not protein. Tissue synthesis does not require much protein BUT requires a LOT of energy that must come from glucose, probably 5-10 grams of glucose for each gram of new tissue protein.

One can certainly consume a LOT of protein just to have the expensive protein convert into the equivalent of cheap starch. The problem is that the nitrogen, sulfate and phosphate from that protein must be excreted. The kidneys survive a lot longer with 10% or less of calories from protein. Again, only a few grams per day are needed to replace shed cells. Perhaps 20-30 grams are used to build muscle in the best case. Every other gram is burned.

High-protein diet is bad for kidney health: unleashing the taboo | Nephrology Dialysis Transplantation | Oxford Academic
Can you link the Canada study?
 
Resolve10

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Timing is FAR more important than total daily intake. When Canadian studies compared those who consumed all of their daily protein for breakfast and those who spread it out throughout the day, the latter deposited measurably more muscle FROM THE SAME TOTAL GRAMS.

That is because animals have NO place to store amino acids except as temporary lean tissue and that process is rate-limited. If one dumps in more protein than can be utilized, the excess is wasted by conversion into glucose. THAT is why the "bros" at the gym claim that they NEED hundreds of grams of protein. The most that one is really going to accumulate per week is 1 kg/2 pounds of lean tissue and that utilizes ONLY 24 grams per day or 1 gram per hour.

EVERY gram that does not become tissue is BURNED, usually by being first converted into glucose.

Growth continues for perhaps 3 days. EVERY hour in which more than one gram is supplied produces NO additional growth. Every hour in which one gram is NOT supplied is a permanent loss.

The same Canadian research found that most dinner intake did not last to the next morning and NEITHER did fast-digesting whey shakes, even 40-60 grams at a serving. Casein consumed at bed time DID deliver the 1-2 grams throughout the night and required only 10-20 gram intake. In the best case, one might require even less.

It also found that full-fat cottage cheese digested more slowly than casein powder and proved far more cost-effective.

Too much protein or carbohydrate DOES raise insulin and reduce GH release BUT muscle growth depends on the isoform of IGF=1 generated within the muscle and it is independent of GH.

Muscle growth is powered by a LOT of glucose, not a lot of protein.
Before I even start, are you trying to say 24g of Protein is all you need? Links to study. And your second post is trying to assert higher protein intake is detrimental for kidney health?

Just wondering because these are some pretty strong claims right now. :)
 
jaycuda

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I am a firm believer that 25-30g of protein, and up to 40g on PED, per sitting is the most you can optimally consume.

Contrary though, what The Solution posted is substantial and something worth reading and taking note of.

I stop eating 90 minutes, or longer, before sleep, and take a 10 hour window of no eating from that point(counting the 90 minutes before sleeping, and the hours slept as well).
 

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