does god exist

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Zero V said:
I wanted to hit and run because I could end up wasting way to much time on this thread. I will do my best to anwser questions then, but what good does it do to anwser the mumbles of the deaf with good english? The anwser to that is there may just be a fine fellow walking by who can hear, and may just learn a thing or two.

I will post around for a bit, but people always say the same things that are secular...We christians at least learn, study, and find new. Secular....stays....the same.
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I am not going to direct this towards christians only, but what exactly do theists learn? It seems that any theists' beliefs are entirely the same
 
b unit said:
here's another question that i've never had an answer to

- what was the marital status of Joseph and Mary at the time of Jesus' birth?

God was the father right?
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my understanding is that they were infact married, however imagine being joseph, also seeing an angel telling him its ok as it was god who fathered the child. My goodness I would still not be pleased
 
Reaper329 said:
my understanding is that they were infact married, however imagine being joseph, also seeing an angel telling him its ok as it was god who fathered the child. My goodness I would still not be pleased
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Actually, they were betrothed. Kinda like a modern engagement. They were not suposed to be having sex together at this time.

So, either way, its embarassing for them :)
 
Zero V said:
For the moon part of this, its orbit will continually slow. Evolution is hard to back with any kind of facts because they have found that the only change to genes are "mutation" and mutation is what cancer is, desease is, and the end of species. There are no benificial mutations, so then nothing could evolve because it would only be negative. And if we evolve, and man has been around so long, why havent we? 3000 years isnt long enough for even a simple change? Not even an extra anything? And doesnt evolution support bigger faster stronger?
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That's just crazy talk. Have you ever been to a biology class? Modern Humans have been around for about 200,000 years. Our lineage from chimpanzees separated millions of years ago. You actually don't believe that humans have been around for only a few thousand years? That's just ignorant.

Mutation is the reason for our evolution. Some mutation may cause disease, but other provide an advantage over others of the same species. That's survival of the fittest my friend.
 
Zero V said:
Lol, thanks, and sorry for the grammer. I am up way to late, had finals today, brain is off. So tired...

The reason I wanted to avoid this thread was because I would post rapidly to questions because the amount of info on each one is alot. And when I do not take the time to type, it gets real ugly.


Good luck on your path as well.

I admit I will be 100% biased lol, sorry. When you feel God and see healings, and feel an infection being drawn out of your body and the pain going away... you understand science is illogical lol.
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I have seen Pagan Reiki masters heal individuals, what is your opinion on that?

Science is logical in fact, the thing is they don't yet see the entire picture.
We as a race have not explored developing the vast abilities we are capable, we have focused on the physical or the tangible. If you cannot hold it in your hand it is fake. You cannot simply dissect everything and have it work perfectly, at least not until you fully understand ALL the underlying mechanisms.
I do believe at some point science and religion shall meet.
 
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Zero V said:
God would want some form of tangible rule. Angels are beings that are now without the same kind of free will we have. WE are given the Freedom of Choice. God didnt mess up, kind of like part of a plan. Without Satan humans wouldnt be temped or blinded from God. So God can in a sense find those who are willing to have faith and trust him, and in a sense weed out thos who would be easily swayed, such as followers of satan.
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How do you know God would want some form of tangible rule?
God would know who is on his side as he is all knowing, or are you saying he is flawed and weak?
 
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i dont think this thread should step on anyones toes. if you cant accept other people views and cant argue you points without getting into fanatic religious statements, all will be fine. i do enjoy some of the fanatic remarks though, gives me a good laugh.
 
i feel its time to ask my next question: im an atheist, with most of my focus being on the corruptive and destructive power of religion. i also am a firm believer in science, evolution and logic. now if one were to believe in god, ignoring all the religious influences, and went thru life never interatcing with god because he handled all obstacles in life in stride. would this kind of person go to heaven?? from all the post, god seems like the most important thing is to believe in him, regaurdless of religion. muslims have there god, jews, catholics, etc. man has corrupted god in texts to suit mans needs. god must understand this and take a kind look to those who shun religion but not him. like i said im an atheist, but if it is as simple as just believing in god, i am more inclined to understand that.
 
bigironkiller said:
i feel its time to ask my next question: im an atheist, with most of my focus being on the corruptive and destructive power of religion. i also am a firm believer in science, evolution and logic. now if one were to believe in god, ignoring all the religious influences, and went thru life never interatcing with god because he handled all obstacles in life in stride. would this kind of person go to heaven?? from all the post, god seems like the most important thing is to believe in him, regaurdless of religion. muslims have there god, jews, catholics, etc. man has corrupted god in texts to suit mans needs. god must understand this and take a kind look to those who shun religion but not him. like i said im an atheist, but if it is as simple as just believing in god, i am more inclined to understand that.
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Well, you know my answer already, I believe there is no "hell" in the sence religion teaches and there's nowhere else to go but back to God, to Oneness and we are born here with free will to believe in anything we want, the end result is still the same.
Of course religion says otherwise, but again who says you can't accept Jesus after you die?
 
thats a good question. if there is a hell, what does god do when you accpet him while in hell?? does he say to late or does he bring you up to him???
 
Dadof2 said:
Dmitri, were you ever a part of the church? It seems as though you have had some experiences either with your family or some other exposure. Regardless it has left you pretty bitter and with little understanding of Christianity.
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No, not really, man. My parents are Lutherans, I was never forced to go to church or anything. I used to go to church on my own when I got older, just so I could learn about God from the Bible. And many messages were great, music and everything else. But at the same time I was reading many spiritual book, because I wasn't gonna close my mind on the bible and believe it blindly. Then I simply came to conclusion, that there is no way I can believe in "bible god", some kind of judgmental, vengeful, God who judges people and punishes them for disobeying his commands, some kind of hypocrite, who first gives people free will and then tell them "you better follow my commands or i will condemn you for eternity".

P.S. I can see how I come out bitter about religion, but many negative things I say, I mean more about not today religion, but earlier days when it's all started, when church and the state were together, etc. Most churches these days mean well, it's just sad that they based all of it on nothing more than a Bible. I simply can not understand that. I asked this question few times in this thread, but nobody answered... What else do you have besides Bible? Personal knoledge that comes straight from God, different books you've read, something else? Question to everyone, not just to Dadof.
P.S.S. I actually have a lot of respect to you, Dadof, you have many valid points regarding your believes. :)
 
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Ribo68 said:
I've had that chat w/ DmitryWI before. His god isn't the God of the Bible as his words and belief system are at odds with the Word. His choice, as it is a choice that is presented to all.
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You are right. See my post above.
May be to you it's a Word, to me it's nothing more then another book I've read and I've read a lot of them.
And what about "no-no", talking to God, right? You are right, religion tells you, it's not possible and if someone claims then that person must be trafficking with devil. I wonder why they teach you that? May be because if people would be able to communicate with God, then they would not need church and this is exactly what church tried to avoid at all costs. (You know what they did to Jesus and many many other people).
Funny though how bible talks about many people who were able to communicate with God or Angels and bible itself, if you claim came from God, I'm pretty sure didn't fall from the sky. Someone wrote those messages from God.
So how is it a big no-no to talk to God? I'm confused...
 
bigironkiller said:
i feel its time to ask my next question: im an atheist, with most of my focus being on the corruptive and destructive power of religion. i also am a firm believer in science, evolution and logic. now if one were to believe in god, ignoring all the religious influences, and went thru life never interatcing with god because he handled all obstacles in life in stride. would this kind of person go to heaven?? from all the post, god seems like the most important thing is to believe in him, regaurdless of religion. muslims have there god, jews, catholics, etc. man has corrupted god in texts to suit mans needs. god must understand this and take a kind look to those who shun religion but not him. like i said im an atheist, but if it is as simple as just believing in god, i am more inclined to understand that.
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Depends on which religion you are talking about. Some have the belief of re-incarnation, so when you die you choose what lesson you want to learn (spiritual evolution) so when you come back you have knowledge of the previous life unless you can get into your subconscious (you will have to get past The Guardian of the Threshold). So you may have believed in religion in a previous life or may still believe in religion on a spiritual level however on a physical level you do not. Perhaps religion isn't the best word to use here, I am not really sure how to phrase this so it is the same as whats running in my head.
 
DmitryWI said:
You are right. See my post above.
May be to you it's a Word, to me it's nothing more then another book I've read and I've read a lot of them.
And what about "no-no", talking to God, right? You are right, religion tells you, it's not possible and if someone claims then that person must be trafficking with devil. I wonder why they teach you that? May be because if people would be able to communicate with God, then they would not need church and this is exactly what church tried to avoid at all costs. (You know what they did to Jesus and many many other people).
Funny though how bible talks about many people who were able to communicate with God or Angels and bible itself, if you claim came from God, I'm pretty sure didn't fall from the sky. Someone wrote those messages from God.
So how is it a big no-no to talk to God? I'm confused...
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I don't think people would just run away from the church because they can communicate with God on their own but they would realize they don't have to go through all bs of the organizational portion of the religion and leave because of that. There are religions that encourage you to connect on your own, to join one you must be invited and the other members must approve of you joining then you must learn more and go through a dedication ceremony. The whole process takes over a year, they aren't hurting for members.
 
bryan4980 said:
Depends on which religion you are talking about. Some have the belief of re-incarnation, so when you die you choose what lesson you want to learn (spiritual evolution) so when you come back you have knowledge of the previous life unless you can get into your subconscious (you will have to get past The Guardian of the Threshold). So you may have believed in religion in a previous life or may still believe in religion on a spiritual level however on a physical level you do not. Perhaps religion isn't the best word to use here, I am not really sure how to phrase this so it is the same as whats running in my head.
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Basically before you born on earth you block all your knowledge about previous lives and ultimate reality, so you could experience life, learn different kind of lessons, that would not be possible, if you had all the knowledge being One with God, or Heaven, what ever you wanna call it. Right?
 
well, back to if god exists. what evidence would be accepted by believers that god truly did exist. i know theyve found some evidence of the name jesus, but what hard proof would be required???
 
DmitryWI said:
No, not really, man. My parents are Lutherans, I was never forced to go to church or anything. I used to go to church on my own when I got older, just so I could learn about God from the Bible. And many messages were great, music and everything else. But at the same time I was reading many spiritual book, because I wasn't gonna close my mind on the bible and believe it blindly. Then I simply came to conclusion, that there is no way I can believe in "bible god", some kind of judgmental, vengeful, God who judges people and punishes them for disobeying his commands, some kind of hypocrite, who first gives people free will and then tell them "you better follow my commands or i will condemn you for eternity".

P.S. I can see how I come out bitter about religion, but many negative things I say, I mean more about not today religion, but earlier days when it's all started, when church and the state were together, etc. Most churches these days mean well, it's just sad that they based all of it on nothing more than a Bible. I simply can not understand that. I asked this question few times in this thread, but nobody answered... What else do you have besides Bible? Personal knoledge that comes straight from God, different books you've read, something else? Question to everyone, not just to Dadof.
P.S.S. I actually have a lot of respect to you, Dadof, you have many valid points regarding your believes. :)
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I don't have any experience that proves the existence of God just really shows there is a lot more that our minds are capable of and perhaps it is supernatural honestly I don't know. But here it is, when I was like 11 or somewhere around there I asked my parents did something happen in this spot(this spot being a section of carpet in the living room I looked just the same as the rest of the carpet but something felt different)? So they told me "That's where your father's father died, he cracked his head open after he fell down the stairs and pretty much died right there in your father's arms. So I went on "Really, when it happened wasn't it dusk at the time and didn't he have his dog with him? I then described how both he and his dog looked and I got from my Dad the deer caught in headlights look because I was dead on. Also he had never talked about this before nor did he have any pictures of any family.
 
bryan4980 said:
I don't think people would just run away from the church because they can communicate with God on their own but they would realize they don't have to go through all bs of the organizational portion of the religion and leave because of that. There are religions that encourage you to connect on your own, to join one you must be invited and the other members must approve of you joining then you must learn more and go through a dedication ceremony. The whole process takes over a year, they aren't hurting for members.
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Well, yea, but again I'm talking more about earlier times, when people basically were forced to go to church to confess their "sins" and give donation, etc. If you take extremes, like catholic church, some of them till these days tell people it's a "sin" if you miss Sunday service.
Of course most people today go to church voluntarily, to gain knowledge, to meet people, etc., not from fear of God, but there are always exceptions. Look at T-Bones post at the beginning of this thread. Perfect example.
 
DmitryWI said:
Basically before you born on earth you block all your knowledge about previous lives and ultimate reality, so you could experience life, learn different kind of lessons, that would not be possible, if you had all the knowledge being One with God, or Heaven, what ever you wanna call it. Right?
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How would it not be possible? The point here is the purpose of life is to learn and experience. I'm not saying you would have infinite knowledge, the only knowledge you would have is that which you have learned over your lives. Nothing is given it is all learned, it is not the destination but the journey.
 
bryan4980 said:
I don't have any experience that proves the existence of God just really shows there is a lot more that our minds are capable of and perhaps it is supernatural honestly I don't know. But here it is, when I was like 11 or somewhere around there I asked my parents did something happen in this spot(this spot being a section of carpet in the living room I looked just the same as the rest of the carpet but something felt different)? So they told me "That's where your father's father died, he cracked his head open after he fell down the stairs and pretty much died right there in your father's arms. So I went on "Really, when it happened wasn't it dusk at the time and didn't he have his dog with him? I then described how both he and his dog looked and I got from my Dad the deer caught in headlights look because I was dead on. Also he had never talked about this before nor did he have any pictures of any family.
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I've had many things like that happen to me too. I just would know things and I would have no clue how I know it.
Google "indigo children"
 
DmitryWI said:
Well, yea, but again I'm talking more about earlier times, when people basically were forced to go to church to confess their "sins" and give donation, etc. If you take extremes, like catholic church, some of them till these days tell people it's a "sin" if you miss Sunday service.
Of course most people today go to church voluntarily, to gain knowledge, to meet people, etc., not from fear of God, but there are always exceptions. Look at T-Bones post at the beginning of this thread. Perfect example.
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Yes, back then not going to every mass could make things difficult, you might of even been killed for it. I wonder what it would have been like if the Roman Catholics hadn't done their best to kill off the Pagan religions and let them coexist? I'm talking about the good ones not the Demonic worship or Santeria type of religions.
 
bryan4980 said:
How would it not be possible? The point here is the purpose of life is to learn and experience. I'm not saying you would have infinite knowledge, the only knowledge you would have is that which you have learned over your lives. Nothing is given it is all learned, it is not the destination but the journey.
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I don't know, may be I'm just not good of explainer. But what purpose would you have by remembering all the previous lives or the ultimate truth? I mean there would be no journey, if you knew everything there is to know. This is what you do in between lives and I believe this is why people get reborn here on earth so you can block all your knowledge and start all over again. Is it what the purpose of our life is? Or may be it's just a crazy talk LOL Everyone decides for them self.

P.S. This is my 2000's post. WooHoo. Pretty crazy one. Ay?
 
bigironkiller said:
speaking of jesus and his return to earth, with all the scepticism do you think it would even be possible in this day and age that people believe that christ truly has returned. you always here of people claiming to be christ but they are immediatley labled as nuts or cult leaders. what if christ does return and no one believes it him???
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When he does return, it won't be such an easily looked over thing. He is said to come with trumpets sounding through all the land, and when he does so, he will call up all the believers currently on the earth into the sky with him. It won't be anywhere close to what you're describing. The bible actually speaks against people that will come along and say these types of things in the end times, you konw, claiming that they are Christ and all that what-not.
 
DmitryWI said:
I've had many things like that happen to me too. I just would know things and I would have no clue how I know it.
Google "indigo children"
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Well that explains a lot, and I was diagnosed with ADD.
Perhaps the next evolutionary step or the culmination of past lives knowledge. Back to what I was saying earlier on the re-incarnation, I would equate the forgetting of the past lives to that amnesia. The knowledge is still there you just can't quite see it clearly. I do know I don't have all the answers or even most of them I just am willing to listen, learn and change my beliefs if they appear to be inaccurate.
 
bigironkiller said:
i dont think this thread should step on anyones toes. if you cant accept other people views and cant argue you points without getting into fanatic religious statements, all will be fine. i do enjoy some of the fanatic remarks though, gives me a good laugh.
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Yeah, it's a good way to identify the psychopaths.
 
DmitryWI said:
I don't know, may be I'm just not good of explainer. But what purpose would you have by remembering all the previous lives or the ultimate truth? I mean there would be no journey, if you knew everything there is to know. This is what you do in between lives and I believe this is why people get reborn here on earth so you can block all your knowledge and start all over again. Is it what the purpose of our life is? Or may be it's just a crazy talk LOL Everyone decides for them self.

P.S. This is my 2000's post. WooHoo. Pretty crazy one. Ay?
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Well you wouldn't remember the ultimate truth, but you would remember the past lives so you can evaluate what you have learned and what you need to learn to continue to grow. If you had the ultimate truth there would not be a point to continue with re-incarnation. I view the creator as a parent and a teacher helping you learn and guiding you where to find the answers but refusing to tell you the answers.
 
bryan4980 said:
Yes, back then not going to every mass could make things difficult, you might of even been killed for it. I wonder what it would have been like if the Roman Catholics hadn't done their best to kill off the Pagan religions and let them coexist? I'm talking about the good ones not the Demonic worship or Santeria type of religions.
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Well, this is my biggest issue with religion. My religion is the right one, no mine, no you go to hell, no you will. 99% wars, I believe, happened because of that.
When spirituality teaches everyone to respect each other's believes, no matter what they are. And this is exactly what I'm trying to learn myself.
 
bigironkiller said:
thats a good question. if there is a hell, what does god do when you accpet him while in hell?? does he say to late or does he bring you up to him???
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Once people are in hell, they fully know that God does exist (for one, they would've just faced judgment from Him, so they would have to know he was real), the bible says that even the demons know He exists, so a realization of this in the afterlife is meaningless.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Once people are in hell, they fully know that God does exist (for one, they would've just faced judgment from Him, so they would have to know he was real), the bible says that even the demons know He exists, so a realization of this in the afterlife is meaningless.
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Sh*t. Stop scaring people. LOL
 
bryan4980 said:
If you had the ultimate truth there would not be a point to continue with re-incarnation.
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Why not? Wouldn't you get extremely bored? Wouldn't you wanna go back and experience physical things, learn lessons all over again, have fun talking about God at AM.com? :)
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Once people are in hell, they fully know that God does exist (for one, they would've just faced judgment from Him, so they would have to know he was real), the bible says that even the demons know He exists, so a realization of this in the afterlife is meaningless.
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so if demons know god exists, do you think their is a sect in hell that believes in god?? maybe those in hell are awaiting the day god will return them to heaven, just like humans in this life do.
 
Wow!I got that tense anxious feeling just opening this thread,but it's going realy well!(i'm on page one though)Untill people start "fist fighting," this thread should remain open.I hate being classified in the form of religion.Another said that atheist means without belief in god.Well thats still saying you theirs a god technically.And if you do,why wouldn't you believe in him?It's like the whole devil worshipping thing.........Why!That being said I don't believe in any religion myself.I don't know how I got here and no one does.As mentioned earlier,it's all beliefs and faith.To keep it simple and short with while hopefully not offending anyone,I don't see how it's possible.I wish I believed to tell you the truth.It would make life easier and I feel kinda guilty for not going to church with my family......You can't help the weay you are though.
 
DmitryWI said:
who says you can't accept Jesus after you die?
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Exactly!If he's there,I love him and am thankfull for everything he's done for me!I almost said I'm sorry for not believing,but that would be lying.Everyone has their own beliefs and truly believes they are right.If not they clearly wouldn't have those beliefs.
 
i suggest everyone in this thread watch "what the bleep do we know?" it's fvckin awesome and will really make you think. me personally, i am on the fence about this subject. IMO god and the bible alike are only here to keep people in line. make them fear that doing naughty things will put them in hell in the after life. my main argument to religious people is: if ther IS a god, then where the hell(no pun intended) did he come from? something cannot just always exist. on the other hand, perhaps our puny little human brains are not capable of comprehending the fact that something CAN always be and not have a beginning.

for me anyway, i say i'll live my life however i want to and do whatever i want to. if there is a god and the bible is true, then when each of us die, we will be asked by some being/god/whatever if we acept him/her/it as our savior. for me, i WILL say "hell yea, you're right in front of me, i cannot deny that. you are da man and my savior." :lol:
 
It makes me so happy to see you posting bass!Just wanted to let you know that.I guessed right about you by the way.(when I seen you were the last post I said hmmmm,hows bass feel about this?)
 
bigironkiller said:
so if demons know god exists, do you think their is a sect in hell that believes in god?? maybe those in hell are awaiting the day god will return them to heaven, just like humans in this life do.
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That's not how it is. If you assume there is a God, and that He is the God mentioned in the Bible, then that's just not what's going to happen. Once in hell, always in hell.
 
bassgod272 said:
i suggest everyone in this thread watch "what the bleep do we know?" it's fvckin awesome and will really make you think. me personally, i am on the fence about this subject. IMO god and the bible alike are only here to keep people in line. make them fear that doing naughty things will put them in hell in the after life. my main argument to religious people is: if ther IS a god, then where the hell(no pun intended) did he come from? something cannot just always exist. on the other hand, perhaps our puny little human brains are not capable of comprehending the fact that something CAN always be and not have a beginning.

for me anyway, i say i'll live my life however i want to and do whatever i want to. if there is a god and the bible is true, then when each of us die, we will be asked by some being/god/whatever if we acept him/her/it as our savior. for me, i WILL say "hell yea, you're right in front of me, i cannot deny that. you are da man and my savior." :lol:
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bassgod i have seen this film and loved it. really eye opening.
 
hypothetical situation:

what if you were to isolate a group of new borns with in the most extreme sense, non-religious care givers. all thru life you taught them all that science had to offer and explained how the world works. of course including evolution, physics, and deep spiritual teachings(non-god related). would these subjects grow up to believe in a god, or live by the facts, logical explanations they came to understand and live by??
 
i have something else to add here. ozarka please elaborate. so, what about all of these african/indian/brazilian/etc tribes that live in the middle of nowhere in tiny little communities or buddhists/polytheistic people/others that do not believe in jesus christ and the bible? because they were raised in a different setting and taught to believe different things, they are going to hell? wtf? if god really is god, then he'd understand the situation and not just say "too bad, you're going to hell."

also, how can you denounce the theory of evolution? lol. i mean do all of the bones lined up in chronological order that CLEARLY show that we evolved from apes, not prove it to you? i am so glad the OP decided to create this thread. i have much to say and discuss regarding this subject :) reps!
 
bigironkiller said:
hypothetical situation:

what if you were to isolate a group of new borns with in the most extreme sense, non-religious care givers. all thru life you taught them all that science had to offer and explained how the world works. of course including evolution, physics, and deep spiritual teachings(non-god related). would these subjects grow up to believe in a god, or live by the facts, logical explanations they came to understand and live by??
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not sure they'd believe in god as in the father of jesus christ, but they WOULD look up and believe in some higher being i would imagine. any time a tragedy occurs, whether it be a close friend/family member passing away, 9/11, Katrina, etc. it is human nature to get scared and feel helpless. you wonder "why the fvk did this have to happen? i don't want it to be like this. what caused this? this cannot be real." in moments of despair, grievance, confusion, sadness, depression, etc. we all know that at some point in their life, these kids would face a great tragedy of some sort.

it is MUCH easier to get through these hard times to think "god took them from me to a better place." or "god made this happen for a reason." as opposed to dealing with it without believing in anything and going through the normal stages of getting over it. there are actual stages that humans go through. the first sage is denial if i remember correctly. there are 7 stages i think. it's been a while since i've read about psychology.
 
I was always taught as a youngster that its what you truly believe.Then things like babies will go to heaven cause they're not old enough to know about god and choose religion or disregard it.So in that sence,others would be fine.Thats why I honestly don't believe that if chritianity is true that I'll be sent to hell for not thinking it exist.Due to my reasoning/belief of it being impossible.
 
pantera101 said:
It makes me so happy to see you posting bass!Just wanted to let you know that.I guessed right about you by the way.(when I seen you were the last post I said hmmmm,hows bass feel about this?)
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you know me too well bro. i'm torn between things that cannot be explained and actual science and logic.
 
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