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Do you think preworkout sups are eorth it?

those numbers mean nothing, I dont know about anyone else, but I would have to see the actual data and the means by which those percentages were calculated.
It is very easy to skew what the actual data is showing in order to make a product look more appealing. too many financial intrest for me to just take some numbers quoted in a study.


lol. Who you gonna believe, then, your local tarot card reader? Here's cold, hard numbers:

[h=1]Citrulline malate enhances athletic anaerobic performance and relieves muscle soreness.[/h]Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Medicine, University of Córdoba, Córdoba, Spain. [email protected]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]The purpose of the present study was to determine the effects of a single dose of citrulline malate (CM) on the performance of flat barbell bench presses as an anaerobic exercise and in terms of decreasing muscle soreness after exercise. Forty-one men performed 2 consecutive pectoral training session protocols (16 sets). The study was performed as a randomized, double-blind, 2-period crossover design. Eight grams of CM was used in 1 of the 2 training sessions, and a placebo was used in the other. The subjects' resistance was tested using the repetitions to fatigue test, at 80% of their predetermined 1 repetition maximum (RM), in the 8 sets of flat barbell bench presses during the pectoral training session (S1-4 and S1'-4'). The p-value was 0.05. The number of repetitions showed a significant increase from placebo treatment to CM treatment from the third set evaluated (p <0.0001). This increase was positively correlated with the number of sets, achieving 52.92% more repetitions and the 100% of response in the last set (S4'). A significant decrease of 40% in muscle soreness at 24 hours and 48 hours after the pectoral training session and a higher percentage response than 90% was achieved with CM supplementation. The only side effect reported was a feeling of stomach discomfort in 14.63% of the subjects. We conclude that the use of CM might be useful to increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic exercises with short rest times and to relieve postexercise muscle soreness. Thus, athletes undergoing intensive preparation involving a high level of training or in competitive events might profit from CM.

PMID: 20386132 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Gonna blow that off? What about this:

Invalid Link Removed 2009 Oct;107(4):1144-55. Epub 2009 Aug 6.[h=1]Dietary nitrate supplementation reduces the O2 cost of low-intensity exercise and enhances tolerance to high-intensity exercise in humans.[/h]Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
[h=3]Source[/h]Exeter Univ., Sport and Health Sciences, St. Luke's Campus, Heavitree Rd., Exeter, EX1 2LU UK.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]
Pharmacological sodium nitrate supplementation has been reported to reduce the O2 cost of submaximal exercise in humans. In this study, we hypothesized that dietary supplementation with inorganic nitrate in the form of beetroot juice (BR) would reduce the O2 cost of submaximal exercise and enhance the tolerance to high-intensity exercise. In a double-blind, placebo (PL)-controlled, crossover study, eight men (aged 19-38 yr) consumed 500 ml/day of either BR (containing 11.2 +/- 0.6 mM of nitrate) or blackcurrant cordial (as a PL, with negligible nitrate content) for 6 consecutive days and completed a series of "step" moderate-intensity and severe-intensity exercise tests on the last 3 days. On days 4-6, plasma nitrite concentration was significantly greater following dietary nitrate supplementation compared with PL (BR: 273 +/- 44 vs. PL: 140 +/- 50 nM; P < 0.05), and systolic blood pressure was significantly reduced (BR: 124 +/- 2 vs. PL: 132 +/- 5 mmHg; P < 0.01). During moderate exercise, nitrate supplementation reduced muscle fractional O2 extraction (as estimated using near-infrared spectroscopy). The gain of the increase in pulmonary O2 uptake following the onset of moderate exercise was reduced by 19% in the BR condition (BR: 8.6 +/- 0.7 vs. PL: 10.8 +/- 1.6 ml.min(-1).W(-1); P < 0.05). During severe exercise, the O2 uptake slow component was reduced (BR: 0.57 +/- 0.20 vs. PL: 0.74 +/- 0.24 l/min; P < 0.05), and the time-to-exhaustion was extended (BR: 675 +/- 203 vs. PL: 583 +/- 145 s; P < 0.05). The reduced O2 cost of exercise following increased dietary nitrate intake has important implications for our understanding of the factors that regulate mitochondrial respiration and muscle contractile energetics in humans.

Or this:

Invalid Link Removed 2010 Jul;109(1):135-48. Epub 2010 May 13.[h=1]Dietary nitrate supplementation enhances muscle contractile efficiency during knee-extensor exercise in humans.[/h]Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
[h=3]Source[/h]School of Sport and Health Sciences, University of Exeter, Heavitree Rd., Exeter EX1 2LU, UK.

[h=3]Erratum in[/h]
  • J Appl Physiol. 2010 Sep;109(3):943.
[h=3]Abstract[/h]
The purpose of this study was to elucidate the mechanistic bases for the reported reduction in the O(2) cost of exercise following short-term dietary nitrate (NO(3)(-)) supplementation. In a randomized, double-blind, crossover study, seven men (aged 19-38 yr) consumed 500 ml/day of either nitrate-rich beet root juice (BR, 5.1 mmol of NO(3)(-)/day) or placebo (PL, with negligible nitrate content) for 6 consecutive days, and completed a series of low-intensity and high-intensity "step" exercise tests on the last 3 days for the determination of the muscle metabolic (using (31)P-MRS) and pulmonary oxygen uptake (Vo(2)) responses to exercise. On days 4-6, BR resulted in a significant increase in plasma [nitrite] (mean +/- SE, PL 231 +/- 76 vs. BR 547 +/- 55 nM; P < 0.05). During low-intensity exercise, BR attenuated the reduction in muscle phosphocreatine concentration ([PCr]; PL 8.1 +/- 1.2 vs. BR 5.2 +/- 0.8 mM; P < 0.05) and the increase in Vo(2) (PL 484 +/- 41 vs. BR 362 +/- 30 ml/min; P < 0.05). During high-intensity exercise, BR reduced the amplitudes of the [PCr] (PL 3.9 +/- 1.1 vs. BR 1.6 +/- 0.7 mM; P < 0.05) and Vo(2) (PL 209 +/- 30 vs. BR 100 +/- 26 ml/min; P < 0.05) slow components and improved time to exhaustion (PL 586 +/- 80 vs. BR 734 +/- 109 s; P < 0.01). The total ATP turnover rate was estimated to be less for both low-intensity (PL 296 +/- 58 vs. BR 192 +/- 38 microM/s; P < 0.05) and high-intensity (PL 607 +/- 65 vs. BR 436 +/- 43 microM/s; P < 0.05) exercise. Thus the reduced O(2) cost of exercise following dietary NO(3)(-) supplementation appears to be due to a reduced ATP cost of muscle force production. The reduced muscle metabolic perturbation with NO(3)(-) supplementation allowed high-intensity exercise to be tolerated for a greater period of time.

Sure, skewed. All of it.
 
Nope!!! Its all the same damn bull**** in a nice $50 jug. Caffeine and arginine. Actually, I'd dare to say just about anything with "N.O." on its label is overpriced ****ing garbage!! Try this for me, the next time your on the way to the gym, grab yourself a black coffee from Starbucks and tell me which works better

I challenge you to try Fierce, then tell me it's the same as your Starbucks junk/swill/puke. How about this, send me your address, and if you're in the US, I'll get you a sample, on the condition you report back here.

BTW, Starbucks is utter crap.

<<<coffee roaster by profession
 
Im a big fan of a cup of joe for pre-workout. It's great! But starbucks sucks. Make your own strong java roast. Save money.
 
Dorian Yates.. NOXPUMP, will blow your socks off!! High potency stim in this.... Feels like god damn amphetamines!! Too much for me. I prefer jack3d, just enough to get motivated and train hard. Pre workouts are helpful at times, but it's also healthy to exercise your natural mental drive and determination without using stims.
Mad pump from NOXPUMP too.
 
I can promise you SAN Fierce will obliterate SP250 in EVERY way: strength, endurance, energy, pumps, taste, cost, whatever standard you choose, Fierce is infinitely better. Simply no comparison, and few preworkouts on the market are it's equal..

Don't waste you money on junk. Buy Fierce instead.

Haven't tried Fierce but it looks good. I really like SPMAX for strength workouts though.

Wut? Amino's, carbs, and caffeine DO NOT trump creatine, beta alanine, citrulline, and any number of other ingredients most pre's contain.

Ideally one would feature all of them.
 
Never gets mentioned around these parts, but Muscle Marinade is a favorite of mine. Gotta cycle off of it every so often so it doesn't lose its edge (the caffeine is fine, it's the dmaa that is really of concern). Haven't tried anything better yet, let alone seen any single supplement that looks better for the same price, though TF had 3lbs of Black Powder a year ago for 30, so if you double dosed that it would compete well.
 
Pre-workout formula's enhance my focus, drive and motivation to get it done. Especially after long hours of school and work, they make me feel like I am fully rested and ready for war. Pre-workouts = win
 
No ****. However, the Rage I just took is making me queasy, not a great start preworkout. The rest may go in the trash.
 
I think they are more than worth it. So much worth it that if I could only buy one supplement outside of the normal vitamins/fish oil it will always be a preworkout. (stim or not)


agreed.

each his own,like yourself pre workouts are worth their weight in gold for me. Only having 2-3 hrs to sl eep a day makes me crazy as is,if I don't get a decent workout in then I feel even worse.

which is also why I can honestly say focusXT is my favorite,use it pre workout a lot now plus during day to keep me going. for some that might not be optimum.
 
No ****. However, the Rage I just took is making me queasy, not a great start preworkout. The rest may go in the trash.

well it shaped up to be a good workout. Intensity and focus were great, and that was on a half serving. Which leads me to why I won't buy it, personally: it has 300mg caffeine per serving. Of course I can take a half serving, and get excellent, and economical focus, but it'll be very lacking in ergogenic effects. And that's why I'm not a fan of concentrated formulas. Not knocking Rage at all: extreme, crash-free energy and focus are fine, and if that's your thing, this is your product. But I honestly prefer Universal's own Shock Therapy to Rage, more good stuff with a more reasonable level of stims (for my purposes).
 
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