Do you take creatine while your on a cycle?
- Thread starter pman
- Start date
pman
Member
Good insight...thats kind of what i was thinking too...you'll need all the help you can get but when i read some peoples logs they include creatine as a everday supplement.
Hank Vangut
Well-known member
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pman
Member
Good read man...thanks
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
Why not just do both. I usually take my creatine for 8-10 weeks, and some times 12, at a time then take 2 weeks off. Most oral cycles last 4-6 weeks with 4 weeks p.c.t Thats 10 weeks total and should work great IMO
Hank Vangut
Well-known member
:goodpost:
and yep, make sure you cycle your creatine by taking 2-3 wks off occasionally. just maybe try and time your off cycle so it doesn't coincide with your pct.
good article on cycling creatine:
Are you cycling your creatine? Find out why you may want to.
Title:
Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.
Researchers:
Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.
Source:
Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37
Summary:
These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.
Discussion:
The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.
Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it�s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.
All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation.
The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.
and yep, make sure you cycle your creatine by taking 2-3 wks off occasionally. just maybe try and time your off cycle so it doesn't coincide with your pct.
good article on cycling creatine:
Are you cycling your creatine? Find out why you may want to.
Title:
Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.
Researchers:
Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.
Source:
Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37
Summary:
These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.
Discussion:
The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.
Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it�s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.
All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation.
The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.
btech
New member
Touche.:bruce1:
pman
Member
I see its still a debatable subject and i see the benefits doing it both ways which leads me to my "master plan"...My cycles are only 4 weeks so the first 3 weeks i will cycle off creatine and my final week of my cycle i will start loading creatine and run it all the way through off cycle until i'm on again...how dos the "master plan" sound???
brittishbulldog
Member
i take creatine sometimes when on cycle and other times of cycle,
i normally take CEE for 4 weeks then have a few weeks of. The only time i wont take it on cycle is when im taking a steroid that causes a lot of water retention,
i normally take CEE for 4 weeks then have a few weeks of. The only time i wont take it on cycle is when im taking a steroid that causes a lot of water retention,
Tom 185
Well-known member
i wish i could find the article that says cycling creatine is pointless unless you are an endurance athlete. I've been consistent with creatine for 6 years now on and off cycle. Just makes more sense to me to not cycle off and keep your bodys levels higher than natural. Although I may need to look into it more.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
I have a buddy who see's no reason to cycle off either, He's probably refering to the same article you speak off.
One of the main reseaons I like to cycle off is to drop the water weight to see where Im at in apperance. I tend to hold water easily with some sort of sodium problem with my body, it makes me hold more water than the regular person. O and its great to get that great burst of power again
Insidious1
Member
Ok then... but there are PLENTY of different kinds of creatine folks....
Are we all talking Creatine Mono... CEE..... etc etc etc..?
Some tend to bloat more than others and some people respond differently to each kind. I've heard that Mono is fine to continuously run.... but that OTHER forms of creatine may need to be cycled... i will look for the article... I THINK it was more due to the fact that those other forms tend to have other stuff in them in order to boost results....
Are we all talking Creatine Mono... CEE..... etc etc etc..?
Some tend to bloat more than others and some people respond differently to each kind. I've heard that Mono is fine to continuously run.... but that OTHER forms of creatine may need to be cycled... i will look for the article... I THINK it was more due to the fact that those other forms tend to have other stuff in them in order to boost results....
Down By Law
New member
your kidneys are under enough stress already with the methyls you are taking so why tax it even more with creatine. The liver is a lot more resilient than your kidneys, something to think about.
zpnq
New member
Creatine places extra stress on the kidneys, its nothing to worry about in normal circumstances, but during a cycle your kidneys are allready under pressure. I think its best not to place that extra stress on the kidneys.
People are always worried about the liver, "dont drink alcohol" "take liver cleansing this and that" Why isnt there as much love for the Kidneys?
People are always worried about the liver, "dont drink alcohol" "take liver cleansing this and that" Why isnt there as much love for the Kidneys?
diminuendo
Board Supporter
Creatine is not hard on your kidneys. It causes elevated levels of creatanine which is a marker of kidney distress IF you are NOT taking creatine.
xarjun
New member
As I understand the mechanisms mentioned in the articles, muscle 'sensitivity' to ingested creatine is heightened when creatine is cycled. So, if you're supplementig with creatine, you will get more of a result if you cycle creatine.
Also, AAS create ideal conditions for uptake and use of creatine, thereby increasing the benefits of an AAS cycle.
However, creatine supplementation is also of great benefit when starting PCT, giving you a better chance of keeping your gains.
So, in a 4 week AAS cycle, why not cycle off creatine before starting your AAS cycle and then add creatine in week 3 of your AAS cycle? Then continue using creatine through the first 2 weeks of your PCT. This will allow you to use creatine during the last 2 weeks of your AAS cycle and the first 2 weeks of your PCT.
Of course, as noted above, you will have to pay greater attention to the welfare of your kidneys.
Does this sound reasonable?
Also, AAS create ideal conditions for uptake and use of creatine, thereby increasing the benefits of an AAS cycle.
However, creatine supplementation is also of great benefit when starting PCT, giving you a better chance of keeping your gains.
So, in a 4 week AAS cycle, why not cycle off creatine before starting your AAS cycle and then add creatine in week 3 of your AAS cycle? Then continue using creatine through the first 2 weeks of your PCT. This will allow you to use creatine during the last 2 weeks of your AAS cycle and the first 2 weeks of your PCT.
Of course, as noted above, you will have to pay greater attention to the welfare of your kidneys.
Does this sound reasonable?
UKhardgainer
New member
Ok how about this then.
Creatine, to load not to load that is the question?
I have seen no more gains by loading creatine than not loading creatine!!
Creatine, to load not to load that is the question?
I have seen no more gains by loading creatine than not loading creatine!!