do high doses of bcaas really decrease recovery time?

[dsohei]

poliquin recommends an absurd amount of bcaas to increase recovery speed - is this true? what kind of dosing system are we talking about here? please include pre peri and post workout dosages... as well as if it's bcaas in general or primarily leucine? what products are best? thanks

 

[Celorza]

poliquin recommends an absurd amount of bcaas to increase recovery speed - is this true? what kind of dosing system are we talking about here? please include pre peri and post workout dosages... as well as if it's bcaas in general or primarily leucine? what products are best? thanks

I would say Pre and Post workout would be best.

Pre-Workout in a fasted scenario (30 minutes to 2 hours prior to workout) to help with mTOR activation and also for muscle-sparing effects.
Post Workout and with a high leucine content (followed by a Post Workout Meal) to help with protein synthesis and optimize the benefits of the Insulin spike, given that carbs are in order.

Yes they do help increasing recovery speed, many studies on it have proven muscle soreness decreased on the supplemented groups as opposed to the control groups. I personally like 4:1:1 and 8:1:1 ratios. Though for an 8:1:1 ratio it's pretty much better to go with Leucine by itself anyway, look into SNS Bulk Leucine if you want the best Bang for Buck on Leucine, if not the 8:1:1 alternative would be USPowders Bulk Modern BCAA...and for fasting purposes and good recovery also check AI Sports Nutrition RecoverPro.

 

[bolt10]

poliquin recommends an absurd amount of bcaas to increase recovery speed - is this true? what kind of dosing system are we talking about here? please include pre peri and post workout dosages... as well as if it's bcaas in general or primarily leucine? what products are best? thanks

I feel they do but be careful with Poliquin recommendations...some of his ideas are pretty extreme.

 

[Celorza]

I feel they do but be careful with Poliquin recommendations...some of his ideas are pretty extreme.

What is this thing you speak of brother?

 

[bolt10]

What is this thing you speak of brother?

Not sure if sarcasm...

Charles Poliquin is a uhhh I guess I'd call him a guru now. Some of the stuff is interesting to say the least.

I'd link but he sells supps on his site at some pretty crazy prices.

 

[dsohei]

I would say Pre and Post workout would be best.

Pre-Workout in a fasted scenario (30 minutes to 2 hours prior to workout) to help with mTOR activation and also for muscle-sparing effects.
Post Workout and with a high leucine content (followed by a Post Workout Meal) to help with protein synthesis and optimize the benefits of the Insulin spike, given that carbs are in order.

Yes they do help increasing recovery speed, many studies on it have proven muscle soreness decreased on the supplemented groups as opposed to the control groups. I personally like 4:1:1 and 8:1:1 ratios. Though for an 8:1:1 ratio it's pretty much better to go with Leucine by itself anyway, look into SNS Bulk Leucine if you want the best Bang for Buck on Leucine, if not the 8:1:1 alternative would be USPowders Bulk Modern BCAA...and for fasting purposes and good recovery also check AI Sports Nutrition RecoverPro.

what kind of dosages are we talking about here? for both bcaa and just plain leucine. also, what if you miss the immediate post workout window? can you just drink a bunch of leucine as soon as possible after? do bcaas/leucine do anything pre workout if you ARE NOT doing a fasted workout?

 

[heavylifter33]

I would need to see said study to validate the protein intake of the groups. With adequate protein intake the need for BCAAs for recovery diminishes greatly. This is speaking for your typical gym bout. No endurance athlete or multiple training sessions per day. Your overall protein balance for the day is your biggest factor for recovery. If you're already ingesting 1g+ pro per body pound... mega dosing BCAAs seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[heavylifter33]

what kind of dosages are we talking about here? for both bcaa and just plain leucine. also, what if you miss the immediate post workout window? can you just drink a bunch of leucine as soon as possible after? do bcaas/leucine do anything pre workout if you ARE NOT doing a fasted workout?

What post workout window? You mean where the body stays anabolic for over 24 hours post bout? I think you'd have trouble missing that window lol.

 

[Celorza]

Not sure if sarcasm...

Charles Poliquin is a uhhh I guess I'd call him a guru now. Some of the stuff is interesting to say the least.

I'd link but he sells supps on his site at some pretty crazy prices.

Haha it was serious, I usually ask things that way. Interesting...I'll look it up :/ can't be crazier than Datbtrue though...(I have heard some of his posts are a bit mental...)

what kind of dosages are we talking about here? for both bcaa and just plain leucine. also, what if you miss the immediate post workout window? can you just drink a bunch of leucine as soon as possible after? do bcaas/leucine do anything pre workout if you ARE NOT doing a fasted workout?

The response I gave you was merely based on a normal dosage (for the study made on muscle soreness and recover). The rest was given on part research/part experimentation on MY end.
For me 20g BCAA Preworkout (either 4:1:1 and specially 8:1:1) have resulted excellent on a bulk. The preworkout dose can be taken even if it is not fasted, I merely mentioned a popular approach people (and I ) like to take for the Intermittent Fasting route; it will still help in protein Synthesis and mTOR signaling to take it pre-workout if fed nonetheless.

What is this "immediate post workout window" you speak of? Your body gets increased nutritent absorption rates as far as 8 hours post workout, so any time is fine I would recommend it prior or with a Post workout MEAL however. Dosages for optimal Leucine Post workout IMO would be 10-15g (2-3 scoops) for a BULK and if you are gonna do a BIG meal. However Pre-workout I don't see the need for more than 10g of Leucine.

If you do not have Leucine, same can be done for BCAA's just figure out the ratios of Leucine in your BCAA (IE 4:1:1 or 8:1:1) and dose according to need.

 

[Celorza]

I would need to see said study to validate the protein intake of the groups. With adequate protein intake the need for BCAAs for recovery diminishes greatly. This is speaking for your typical gym bout. No endurance athlete or multiple training sessions per day. Your overall protein balance for the day is your biggest factor for recovery. If you're already ingesting 1g+ pro per body pound... mega dosing BCAAs seems like a waste of money to me.

Oh hi Rhadam! I'll find the link, it was a previous article posted on the main page. I do agree though, with a sufficient protein intake should be enough to keep good NO levels and the Amino Acid Pool of the body well fed.

What post workout window? You mean where the body stays anabolic for over 24 hours post bout? I think you'd have trouble missing that window lol.

Haha thought the same, though I had thought there was an article posted on the main page about it being 8 hours of "Immediate PWO window" and then still 24hrs of anabolism.

 

[bolt10]

Haha it was serious, I usually ask things that way. Interesting...I'll look it up :/ can't be crazier than Datbtrue though...(I have heard some of his posts are a bit mental...)

I don't always have the best internet decipher abilities.

People at my gym obsess over Poliquin so that is probably why I may be a little shaded. :soapbox:

 

[Celorza]

I don't always have the best internet decipher abilities.

People at my gym obsess over Poliquin so that is probably why I may be a little shaded. :soapbox:

Beats going to a gym where the followed lepper-messiah is a gee en ce guy...Though I have been winning the masses little by little with supplement and nutrition advice...

 

[bolt10]

Beats going to a gym where the followed lepper-messiah is a gee en ce guy...Though I have been winning the masses little by little with supplement and nutrition advice...

Ya I feel you. Also I think I meant jaded not shaded...not sure if what I wrote even makes sense.

 

[Celorza]

Ya I feel you. Also I think I meant jaded not shaded...not sure if what I wrote even makes sense.

"Hey...Ja-ja-jaded! You got your mamma's style but you're yesterday's child to me!"

 

[dsohei]

Ya I feel you. Also I think I meant jaded not shaded...not sure if what I wrote even makes sense.

shaded is a term now. "to throw shade" means to give attitude towards, so your original typo actually makes sense haha

 

[dsohei]

Haha it was serious, I usually ask things that way. Interesting...I'll look it up :/ can't be crazier than Datbtrue though...(I have heard some of his posts are a bit mental...)

The response I gave you was merely based on a normal dosage (for the study made on muscle soreness and recover). The rest was given on part research/part experimentation on MY end.
For me 20g BCAA Preworkout (either 4:1:1 and specially 8:1:1) have resulted excellent on a bulk. The preworkout dose can be taken even if it is not fasted, I merely mentioned a popular approach people (and I ) like to take for the Intermittent Fasting route; it will still help in protein Synthesis and mTOR signaling to take it pre-workout if fed nonetheless.

What is this "immediate post workout window" you speak of? Your body gets increased nutritent absorption rates as far as 8 hours post workout, so any time is fine I would recommend it prior or with a Post workout MEAL however. Dosages for optimal Leucine Post workout IMO would be 10-15g (2-3 scoops) for a BULK and if you are gonna do a BIG meal. However Pre-workout I don't see the need for more than 10g of Leucine.

If you do not have Leucine, same can be done for BCAA's just figure out the ratios of Leucine in your BCAA (IE 4:1:1 or 8:1:1) and dose according to need.

thanks for the clarification - i am building up to training everyday (high frequency training due to circus arts, with supplemental lifting sessions) and i really just need every recovery technique in the book right now. i get about 200g of protein a day at 180lbs bodyweight. i eat breakfast on mornings when i train in circus because i perform better that way, and i take 24g peptopro with some sugar and vitamin c post workout, then have a big meal about an hour or 2 later.
like i said, i need to be able to recover in 24 hours (which is probably laughable but don't let me know that)