Answered DMZ v M1T

Sheriff Morri

Sheriff Morri

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I'm after info on the next cycle I'm going to try. I've ran a few sarms, t-bol and t-bol with 4AD cycles.

I have lost around 13kg in weight since February due to a marathon I'm training for in 5 weeks time however I'm keen to start lifting properly again. My wife even commented that she prefers me bigger lol.

So I'm really interested in DMZ or M1T. Just curious as to what brands are decent and g2g (I'm in the UK) and what the difference is in what to expect from either compound. I have a great diet/eating plan already in place and my training is on point with 2hour sessions 4/5 days a week. Any insight, information or suggestions are always welcomed guys.
 
Mathb33

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I think the only person that should think about using m1t are people blast and cruising or people on trt imo!
 
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Sheriff Morri

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My only issue with pinning is my wife is 100% against me doing it and has said we would be single if I did (trust me, I thought of the pros and cons of that situation). I have got away with taking sarms and AAS orally as they are easily enough to conceal and I don’t have any prep or anything to discard afterwards.
 

TMloc

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My only issue with pinning is my wife is 100% against me doing it and has said we would be single if I did (trust me, I thought of the pros and cons of that situation). I have got away with taking sarms and AAS orally as they are easily enough to conceal and I don’t have any prep or anything to discard afterwards.
I can respect that..Not to pry or anything like that but what's her big issue with you pinning? Do you discuss with it'd be a lot more healthier for you in the long run..I'll admit pinning process is a bit of a hassle at times..
 

Nac

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Theres obviously alot of irrational misconceptions regarding pinning. Theres a fair bit of hypocrisy, too (its "ok" to take illegal drugs orally, but not to inject them?)

Buuuut...youre dealing with a woman. And it doesnt matter one fuking bit if *we* think she might be thinking irrationally, cos if she's made up her mind on something, you fukked lol

%99 of the time the initial major mental hurdle with pinning is injecting is obviously associated with crap like heroin. Its just an unfortunate innevitability. Getting her head around it is all in the approach: for example, heroin is mainlining, straight into a vein. Inj AAS is intramuscular, so its actually more like a vaccine admin. Not quite so bad when you look at it like that.
 
Sheriff Morri

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@Nac i will happily set a meeting up with you and my wife and you can fight for my right to pin buddy hahaha.

@TMloc i have asked her about her feelings on pinning and steroids in general. She just doesn’t get the reasons behind doing it and has told me she doesn’t want me doing any of it. I have always had to conceal my t-Bol, sarms and prohormones.

Ironically she loved the way I looked while I was using and before I lost a lot of size due to my marathon training, yet if I told her how i aided myself getting there she would hate it. There’s no rationality with our beloveds unfortunately.
 
ValiantThor08

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Do you think the compound is way too strong for just an oral cycle?
If you were to use it to kickstart a mild oral, then it has a good purpose. M1t could be used by itself, but is very strong, and you wouldn't run it for too long. It would be better to use in the beginning for a few weeks and bridge into something mild that you can run longer.
 
Jinsun

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Using a harsh oral, to kick start a milder oral cycle, just doesn't sit right with me. I mean after 3 to 4 weeks of M1T your liver kinda needs a break, throwing Tbol in it, is kinda reckless and you probably wouldn't feel to good.

M1T is a starter for an injectable cycle.

But anyway, SM isn't talking about using it as kickstart. He just want's to use it solo and to that I say, sure, why not. It wont be any different from doing drol or SD or any other strong compound for 4 weeks: he won't keep much of the gains.
 

niklasericson

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I'm after info on the next cycle I'm going to try. I've ran a few sarms, t-bol and t-bol with 4AD cycles.

I have lost around 13kg in weight since February due to a marathon I'm training for in 5 weeks time however I'm keen to start lifting properly again. My wife even commented that she prefers me bigger lol.

So I'm really interested in DMZ or M1T. Just curious as to what brands are decent and g2g (I'm in the UK) and what the difference is in what to expect from either compound. I have a great diet/eating plan already in place and my training is on point with 2hour sessions 4/5 days a week. Any insight, information or suggestions are always welcomed guys.
DMZ is banned in the UK but you can get it anyway in at least one UK store but I don't know if it's legit or not.
M1T is also rare, PN, BC, PmS are not selling it anymore.
You can buy "Core Xlabs" products from stores in Germany or Poland, their stuff is legit.
 

Jstrong20

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m1t is a lot stronger. If you want to gain fast as possible it’s the way to go. It comes down to preference. Some people feel horrible on it. I used to run it solo with no test base and it worked great but makes you really tired by week 3.
 

Jstrong20

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m1t is a lot stronger. If you want to gain fast as possible it’s the way to go. It comes down to preference. Some people feel horrible on it. I used to run it solo with no test base and it worked great but makes you really tired by week 3.
 
Sheriff Morri

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If you were to use it to kickstart a mild oral, then it has a good purpose. M1t could be used by itself, but is very strong, and you wouldn't run it for too long. It would be better to use in the beginning for a few weeks and bridge into something mild that you can run longer.
Yeah I get what you mean buddy and that’s a very interesting idea that I hadn’t thought of.
 
Jinsun

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Are the gains not maintainable once the cycle is complete or are you saying this as I’m not pinning? I read that M1T was dry gains and retainable
Well idk really why this is the case with short cycles tbh.

You wont be able to run it for long, at a moderate dose at least, as it's really toxic and that will make you lethargic and sick. M1T holds water, more so then SD for example, and that will make it seem like you made/lost gains. @Old Witch, among others, can tell you more about it.

I would however, preferably run SD over M1T.

But again, short 3 to 4 week cycles are really special, as in, they have to be utilised smartly in regards to your programming and goals. Maybe you want to bust through a plateau, or you want to push extra hard in your last messocycle, or maybe you need it for a meet. If it's just for hypertrophy, you might find it hard to gain a lot of keepable tissue. I mean, don't have big expectations. You can probably, realistically speaking, keep 2 to 4 pounds of tissue, after all is said and done, two months after pct is over. YMMV though...
 
Jinsun

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To add to the above... I did a cycle 3 months ago and afterwards, lost to much gains bc of summer, to little kcals, basically went into a cut (I started skating and that really surprised me in regards to the caloric burn), etc. I'm going to do a short SD cycle in a month, to regain 2 - 4 pounds. I lost min 4 pounds of bf after pct and adding 2 - 4 pounds of tissue will be great now.

Then I'll do a proper cycle in December till March. Winter is the best time to cycle imo, as it's depressing and cold.
 
Jinsun

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Oh, and another thing hehe
Maybe you can help yourself with GHRH's or GHRP's after the short cycle in order to preserve tissue. Or just start the cycle with mk677 and keep it 2 months after the cycle is over.
 

Jstrong20

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Are the gains not maintainable once the cycle is complete or are you saying this as I’m not pinning? I read that M1T was dry gains and retainable
M1t is very anabolic and muscle is muscle. You will lose glycogen and water but it wiill build real muscle and fast.
 
Mathb33

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M1t is very anabolic and muscle is muscle. You will lose glycogen and water but it wiill build real muscle and fast.
Still, muscle buillt very quickly are a lot harder to maintain than slow and steady gains. A 10 lbs of muscle gain in 2-3 weeks of m1t will be extremely harder to keep for someone pcting than let’s say 10lbs of muscle in a 6-8week cycle.
 
Hyde

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M1T for what you want. DMZ is better for recomp or stacking with moderate doses of Msten or M1A if bulking. (I have used M1T twice and DMZ 3-4x).

I AM going to give you some food for thought though: you need to evaluate what this really means to you, how important this is. These oral cycles are going to mandate HRT at some point later on (which I’ve heard is actually much tougher to get in the UK than the US despite private gear use being legal there). Are you going to be able to get that care when your natural levels become unbearable, and will she accept that then?

What does it say to you that you are comfortable lying to her about your current oral usage? And that she has said she will leave you if she finds out you are using steroids? Is this worth losing your wife? Is it worth being in a relationship with a woman who does not support your life decisions to trade longevity for gains, for that matter?

I have always been transparent with girlfriends about hormone usage, and the woman I have now married was on board with my lifestyle from the very beginning of dating, so I have never been in your dilemma. When she married you, you were natty - so it is YOU who flipped the script, and the burden of responsibility for this is on you. It’s the difference between marrying a fat woman where you know exactly what you’re getting into vs. marrying someone lean who decides to completely let herself go later on.

If it were me, I would talk to her and try educate her why this is reasonably safe if done moderately and why it’s so important to me. If she cannot get on board with it though, I would not go behind her back. It undermines the strength of your marriage.

But yeah, M1T > DMZ
 

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M1T for what you want. DMZ is better for recomp or stacking with moderate doses of Msten or M1A if bulking. (I have used M1T twice and DMZ 3-4x).

I AM going to give you some food for thought though: you need to evaluate what this really means to you, how important this is. These oral cycles are going to mandate HRT at some point later on (which I’ve heard is actually much tougher to get in the UK than the US despite private gear use being legal there). Are you going to be able to get that care when your natural levels become unbearable, and will she accept that then?

What does it say to you that you are comfortable lying to her about your current oral usage? And that she has said she will leave you if she finds out you are using steroids? Is this worth losing your wife? Is it worth being in a relationship with a woman who does not support your life decisions to trade longevity for gains, for that matter?

I have always been transparent with girlfriends about hormone usage, and the woman I have now married was on board with my lifestyle from the very beginning of dating, so I have never been in your dilemma. When she married you, you were natty - so it is YOU who flipped the script, and the burden of responsibility for this is on you. It’s the difference between marrying a fat woman where you know exactly what you’re getting into vs. marrying someone lean who decides to completely let herself go later on.

If it were me, I would talk to her and try educate her why this is reasonably safe if done moderately and why it’s so important to me. If she cannot get on board with it though, I would not go behind her back. It undermines the strength of your marriage.

But yeah, M1T > DMZ

Agreed. Im thankful my wife has an open mind about it and is ok with it knowing im getting the bloodwork, following good safe use guidelines, making good judgements and not being reckless.
 

danielvp

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One thing I thought I'd mention is that it is going to be blatantly obvious you are on gear with M1T. When you gain 10 lbs in a week and need to buy new clothes I would anticipate your wife figuring it out. Just food for thought.
 
Mathb33

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M1T for what you want. DMZ is better for recomp or stacking with moderate doses of Msten or M1A if bulking. (I have used M1T twice and DMZ 3-4x).

I AM going to give you some food for thought though: you need to evaluate what this really means to you, how important this is. These oral cycles are going to mandate HRT at some point later on (which I’ve heard is actually much tougher to get in the UK than the US despite private gear use being legal there). Are you going to be able to get that care when your natural levels become unbearable, and will she accept that then?

What does it say to you that you are comfortable lying to her about your current oral usage? And that she has said she will leave you if she finds out you are using steroids? Is this worth losing your wife? Is it worth being in a relationship with a woman who does not support your life decisions to trade longevity for gains, for that matter?

I have always been transparent with girlfriends about hormone usage, and the woman I have now married was on board with my lifestyle from the very beginning of dating, so I have never been in your dilemma. When she married you, you were natty - so it is YOU who flipped the script, and the burden of responsibility for this is on you. It’s the difference between marrying a fat woman where you know exactly what you’re getting into vs. marrying someone lean who decides to completely let herself go later on.

If it were me, I would talk to her and try educate her why this is reasonably safe if done moderately and why it’s so important to me. If she cannot get on board with it though, I would not go behind her back. It undermines the strength of your marriage.

But yeah, M1T > DMZ
Very well said. So true...
 
Hyde

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One thing I thought I'd mention is that it is going to be blatantly obvious you are on gear with M1T. When you gain 10 lbs in a week and need to buy new clothes I would anticipate your wife figuring it out. Just food for thought.
Yeah this is no exaggeration. I ran M1T to kick a cycle last winter, and I was up 8lbs in 6 days. By 2 weeks I was shopping with my wife for new big boy clothes to fit the bloat into. M1T is a violent experience that will be impossible to hide when you aren’t fitting into your clothes and can’t walk across the park without stopping to take a break.
 
chem.jr.

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Yeah this is no exaggeration. I ran M1T to kick a cycle last winter, and I was up 8lbs in 6 days. By 2 weeks I was shopping with my wife for new big boy clothes to fit the bloat into. M1T is a violent experience that will be impossible to hide when you aren’t fitting into your clothes and can’t walk across the park without stopping to take a break.
Agreed /\.

Also, since you're looking to get bigger over a longer period of time and nit ruin your lipids or liver (i would think) and not loose the old lady, then how about sr9009 or GW and s23 and/or rad140, plus mk677. That would be a great bulk along with stamina and the sr along w proper diet will help you keep lipids from going to shyt and mk will get ya a little more swole off the start and the others more so later on. Just a thought. Esp since you can do your own research. Just my 2c.
The m1t is super harsh and it really will make u bjg as hell in not time. Dmz, hdrol, etc would get ya back where wifey likes ya but will shut ya down good and mess w liver n lipids. The sarms are probably safest option if you keep dosages on the lower end and run some nolva for pct or at least something like mtest.
Hope this helps. Best of luck. And maybe think about breaking it to her that you have taken certain "supplements" to get size previously so you dont want her freaking out if she were to find something this time?
 
Sheriff Morri

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Agreed /\.

Also, since you're looking to get bigger over a longer period of time and nit ruin your lipids or liver (i would think) and not loose the old lady, then how about sr9009 or GW and s23 and/or rad140, plus mk677. That would be a great bulk along with stamina and the sr along w proper diet will help you keep lipids from going to shyt and mk will get ya a little more swole off the start and the others more so later on. Just a thought. Esp since you can do your own research. Just my 2c.
The m1t is super harsh and it really will make u bjg as hell in not time. Dmz, hdrol, etc would get ya back where wifey likes ya but will shut ya down good and mess w liver n lipids. The sarms are probably safest option if you keep dosages on the lower end and run some nolva for pct or at least something like mtest.
Hope this helps. Best of luck. And maybe think about breaking it to her that you have taken certain "supplements" to get size previously so you dont want her freaking out if she were to find something this time?
Loads to think about there buddy thanks for that man.

I’m gonna have a chat with the good lady tonight and see where we go.
 
Hyde

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Loads to think about there buddy thanks for that man.

I’m gonna have a chat with the good lady tonight and see where we go.
This is the way to do it. If you keep this hush hush and she later finds out about it, while you might know it was just some legally purchased supplements - what is she to think? What gals have you been out shagging that you weren’t telling her about if you were lying about this? It’s not about the hormones, it’s about trust and respect.
 
Mathb33

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This is the way to do it. If you keep this hush hush and she later finds out about it, while you might know it was just some legally purchased supplements - what is she to think? What gals have you been out shagging that you weren’t telling her about if you were lying about this? It’s not about the hormones, it’s about trust and respect.
Yep. Especially on a subject that you know she’s upset about. She’s going to respect you a lot for talking about it and being truthful about your desire. Gotta be honest to your girl if you want to expect the same.
 
Mathb33

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Also, most of the girls that have the "if you do roids I’m done with you" attitude are just uneducated on the subject and follow the bandwagon they heard since they’re young that steroiids are bad mmmkay. They are bad. But not worse than drinking 5 times a week or other stuff like that. Maybe if you show her all you plan to do to stay healthy while doing it, that if anything goes wrong you’re willing to stop everything cause it’s not like it was an addiction anyways, etc etc! Then maybe she’ll start to accept it a little. Or maybe not! But I still think you should tell her 1- to be honest and a good boyfriend and 2- to feel better because lying is stressful and it’s not a nice feeling.
 

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@Nac i will happily set a meeting up with you and my wife and you can fight for my right to pin buddy hahaha.

@TMloc i have asked her about her feelings on pinning and steroids in general. She just doesn’t get the reasons behind doing it and has told me she doesn’t want me doing any of it. I have always had to conceal my t-Bol, sarms and prohormones.

Ironically she loved the way I looked while I was using and before I lost a lot of size due to my marathon training, yet if I told her how i aided myself getting there she would hate it. There’s no rationality with our beloveds unfortunately.
I am sure glad my wife isn’t as strict as yours
on anabolics.
 
ChocolateClen

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My gf doesn’t want me too but I’m already on TRT so I’m gonna do it and she’s gonna be like “oh” and imma be like “I TOLD YOU SO” and then imma get slapped but it’ll be worth it
 

JoePaul39

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Well idk really why this is the case with short cycles tbh.

You wont be able to run it for long, at a moderate dose at least, as it's really toxic and that will make you lethargic and sick. M1T holds water, more so then SD for example, and that will make it seem like you made/lost gains. @Old Witch, among others, can tell you more about it.

I would however, preferably run SD over M1T.

But again, short 3 to 4 week cycles are really special, as in, they have to be utilised smartly in regards to your programming and goals. Maybe you want to bust through a plateau, or you want to push extra hard in your last messocycle, or maybe you need it for a meet. If it's just for hypertrophy, you might find it hard to gain a lot of keepable tissue. I mean, don't have big expectations. You can probably, realistically speaking, keep 2 to 4 pounds of tissue, after all is said and done, two months after pct is over. YMMV though...
If one is on trt can they keep more of their gains from an M1T cycle?
 

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I havent run M1T but Ive run Methyl tren and just about all other orals...and Id choose sdrol for when I want to run something grunty as fuk that "gives all te gainz!!" but isnt *too* side-heavy, relatively speaking.

I dont find sdrol adds slabs of insta-muscle, but holy fuk itll recomp you just like inj tren. So yes, youll add *some* muscle but youll also lose some fat around the gut. And the veins. Ooh fuk. If youre currently sitting at around 12-15sh% bodyfat, youll get oarsum results.

Just my thoughts.
 
Jinsun

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I havent run M1T but Ive run Methyl tren and just about all other orals...and Id choose sdrol for when I want to run something grunty as fuk that "gives all te gainz!!" but isnt *too* side-heavy, relatively speaking.

I dont find sdrol adds slabs of insta-muscle, but holy fuk itll recomp you just like inj tren. So yes, youll add *some* muscle but youll also lose some fat around the gut. And the veins. Ooh fuk. If youre currently sitting at around 12-15sh% bodyfat, youll get oarsum results.

Just my thoughts.
Also my experience. SD is great at a cut and recomp. And that's only at 10mg's...
 
ChocolateClen

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If one is on trt can they keep more of their gains from an M1T cycle?
Theoretically yes because you won’t have to go through PCT and restart your balls etc. how much of a difference I couldn’t tell you but you should be able to keep at least a little bit more due to the fact that you’re back to “normal” instantly vs a few weeks
 
Jinsun

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TRT, MK677, you should keep most gains.
I don't believe that just mk would do that. Maybe mk in combination with other peptides. You would need to bring your IGF in the 400's (mk brings it for most around 250 - maks 300) or higher and even then,... it's a bit different mechanism.
 
ChocolateClen

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I don't believe that just mk would do that. Maybe mk in combination with other peptides. You would need to bring your IGF in the 400's (mk brings it for most around 250 - maks 300) or higher and even then,... it's a bit different mechanism.
You gotta understand that on TRT you aren’t coming off and dropping to low levels of test and GH etc. it’s going to stay elevated because you’re not trying to restart anything. Unless you’re well above what you can physiologically hold you’ll be able to keep what you put on assuming a good diet and training. All this simply because you’re cruising on normal levels of test
 
ValiantThor08

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I don't believe that just mk would do that. Maybe mk in combination with other peptides. You would need to bring your IGF in the 400's (mk brings it for most around 250 - maks 300) or higher and even then,... it's a bit different mechanism.
On TRT one should absolutely keep most gains in conjunction with MK677. On non TRT individuals it even prevents muscle wasting on a major calorie deficit. It increases GH, IGF, promotes positive nitrogen balance even on a deficit, it is not only anti catabolic, it is even mildly anabolic in action.
 
Jinsun

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I understand, I mentioned the factor of TRT in my previous comment. I don't have first hand TRT experience, as I am not on it, so this is all hypothetical on my part but ... Judging just from my experience of cycling: I never really lost most of the gains in PCT, that happened gradually in the first 2 - 3 months after the cycle (including pct).

It's not really that simple also. Not all cycles and all PCT's are the same. Some PCT's take longer, and some you're up and going in a weeks time! I would say for a 3 to 4 week cycle of M1T or SD ... you are up and running in a week. And let's not forget, that in PCT you usually have above the range, supraphysiological, levels of test. My normal TT levels are just below the upper range, add a SERM to that with an Ai (as I do in PCT) and my FT levels are 50% above labs range. This is thus greater then your TRT probably.

So it's really not clear cut as you two would have us think.

And it's not just the PCT that matters. What's really the problem, is the thing that makes you grow in the first place, and that is Volume and Intensity; both of which go up during the cycle and fall back down after. This is mostly the reason why you lose gains.

Peptides? Well yeah, ... but as I stated earlier, you need a bit more then just Mk to keep most of the gains IMO.
 
ChocolateClen

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If you’re on a 500mg/week cycle of test plus your TRT you have that much extra test in your system. If you aren’t on TRT the body is gonna suppress or even shut down its own test production so while it’s not exactly cut and dry, it’s not a whole gray area either
 
Jinsun

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While I understad what you've just said, I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion or how it furthers it?
 
Sheriff Morri

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Well gents I finally had a chat with my wife about supplements. Turns out she has always been ok with the orals I’ve taken (probably as I was a mad ecstasy popper in my 20’s when she met me) as I always had them in the cupboard out the reach of the kids and she knew they were powerful stuff. Her only issue is with me injecting as it doesn’t feel right with her. In saying that it’s now more open between us so who knows where it will lead. But won’t be pushing anything at this point.

So @Nac i will need you to have that chat with her about pinning and @Hyde thanks for laying down some knowledge man, looks like she isn’t all that fussed as long as I’m healthy.......and look buff af 🤣
 

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