Dinosaur Muffin's Cruise/TRT

[DinosaurMuffins]

Hi all, Again,

I am starting a new log as my blast cycle is over. I learned a lot from that cycle. I learned I don't have many sides with AAS, which is what I experience prior when I cycled a few times about a decade ago. Getting blood work done from cycle to see where I land but a few markers I got back from giving blood came back looking good. Here is my cycle log: High Test / Low Tren / Tbol V.2 - AnabolicMinds.com

I have to comment on how I got here. So I had been planning a cycle for about a year (Nov 22) when I got sick. Bad sick. Like almost died in the hospital. I also am 38 so at a mid-way through the point in life. I think I have been through and still going through a midlife crisis. I took a cycle behind my wife's back since the beginning of the year. It's been really good and really bad for our relationship. Bringing out some fight in me in a good way. I have been fighting for what I need and want out of life and working on it but it has also caused a lot of issues too. Lots of fighting. I am now starting to see a therapist about my relationship and my wife will be joining in the coming weeks. The reason I start with this is that I want to outline that I am doing this for myself. I am doing this for myself and it's about time. I have always put everyone else before me and it hasn't really been returned, so this is me putting myself first. I am proud of who I am now, I am standing up for myself and for what I want. Maybe my relationship is destroyed in the process but I'd rather be fighting for my happiness than sitting back and just waiting for the grave. Gear has given me back a lot of drive and passion and so for that reason, I plan to stay on a cruise.

As of my next injection, I am on a cruise. I will be running 200mg Test E with 800 iu HCG weekly. Both of these split into 2 pins. I will be hiding this from my wife. I feel pretty confident in my ability to do this. My exit strategy is going for 2-3 -5 years (whatever) getting off for a few months and getting my levels checked. At that point, I have the excuse to get on "TRT" either through a clinic or through my PCP. This would be where my wife would approve and be cool with it.

I am excited to see what this brings.

 

[Smont]

Not for nothing but there's a reason they call tren divorce in a bottle. I don't think it necessarily brings out the worst in ppl. I do think that sometimes it makes you bite back when you normally wouldn't and that can be a good thing. But it definitely destroys some people's relationships

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Not for nothing but there's a reason they call tren divorce in a bottle. I don't think it necessarily brings out the worst in ppl. I do think that sometimes it makes you bite back when you normally wouldn't and that can be a good thing. But it definitely destroys some people's relationships

Yeah I do realize that was/has been a factor but man did I need it. My wife is controling and I have been pretty second class citizen in the relationship. I haven't been happy for a while and kind of gave up. I am just dropping down to test and will ramp up from time to time by adding various compounds but I am going to take the cruise to help me keep the good parts of the drive.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Alright... So Day 1 of cruising.

I finally figured out how to get my 1ml insulin 29g needles to work with the oil I have. Man I wish I would have figured that out during the cycle. I have decided since I can get that to work, that I am going to move to MWF injections, totaling 200mg Test E a week. I will mainly inject in the shoulders. I will also be using 400iu of HCG x 2 a week the day prior to test injection. I had a vasectomy about 4 months ago (that I regret but my wife kind of forced my hand) so more kids just aren't in the cards. I am using HCG to hide shrunken nuts from her. So far they are like 70% of normal size after my cycle but she said she thinks that is just because of less fluid from the vasectomy. So I am pretty square here.

My goal over the next 6 months is to slowly lean out while maintaining my gains. I have some plans to include clen here and there and some Proviron this summer. I'm not looking to change the world and make a ton of progress/gains. Just maintain for now, lean out, have positive mental effects, and **** like a teenager.

I plan to do a blast around Thanksgiving but still figuring out what that looks like.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Update on log:

Weight at about 195. I am slowly cutting. Feeling good. I do however have high blood pressure now. 140/80. This is likely from the end of the tren, test, tbol, clen, T3 blast I did. I imagine this will level off before long but I am going in to see my PCP and will be likely transparent with her. She has been cool so far and thinks she is willing to assist in harm reduction and bloodwork billed through insurance. So like guiding me so I don't **** my **** up.

The other notable thing is I am feeling the tren leave my system (17 days out now I believe). I didn't understand fully until now the difference I was feeling from what I thought was just a blast and what was the tren. The tren did make me more impulsive. I amplified my sex drive. I can see how people get in trouble with it. If I didn't have self-control I probably would have raped my wife several times over the cycle. Not in the haha funny way but in the like, I met you in an alleyway and your panties are ripped and around your ankles way. I'm not that person so it's weird saying and admitting that. I am starting to feel a leveling out of my high sex drive but a clearer mind.

I will likely use Tren again but my number 1 focus before that would be getting my relationship to 90% or above through counseling prior to that. I'll be looking for some good compounds to add next time. Open to thoughts.

 

[Nac]

It seems trite to say it but all these AAS can be so person-dependant in terms of how they affect us mentally, and physically...

Most dudes say dbol gives them "highs" and well-being but Ive never got that off dbol.

Some dudes say deca gives them anxiety. Ive never got that from nandrolones.

Most guys say sdrol ends up making them feel sh1tty. I could run it for 8wks and feel fine.

Some AAS are more likely to make you feel a certain way, for sure, but ultimately we each have to experiment to find what drug gives us what we want.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Update on log:

Weight at about 195. I am slowly cutting. Feeling good. I do however have high blood pressure now. 140/80. This is likely from the end of the tren, test, tbol, clen, T3 blast I did. I imagine this will level off before long but I am going in to see my PCP and will be likely transparent with her. She has been cool so far and thinks she is willing to assist in harm reduction and bloodwork billed through insurance. So like guiding me so I don't **** my **** up.

The other notable thing is I am feeling the tren leave my system (17 days out now I believe). I didn't understand fully until now the difference I was feeling from what I thought was just a blast and what was the tren. The tren did make me more impulsive. I amplified my sex drive. I can see how people get in trouble with it. If I didn't have self-control I probably would have raped my wife several times over the cycle. Not in the haha funny way but in the like, I met you in an alleyway and your panties are ripped and around your ankles way. I'm not that person so it's weird saying and admitting that. I am starting to feel a leveling out of my high sex drive but a clearer mind.

I will likely use Tren again but my number 1 focus before that would be getting my relationship to 90% or above through counseling prior to that. I'll be looking for some good compounds to add next time. Open to thoughts.

Masteron or primo and some gh

 

[Smont]

If tren made me feel the way you described I would never touch it again

 

[Hyde]

I would look at Masteron and/or Var for your next blast as an additional anabolic over test. Masteron is healthier (Var usually hits HDL hard) and will give you the biggest libido increase of anything likely (after Tren).

If you didn’t need Ralox or Tamox to prevent gyno on your last test/Tren run, I would look at Deca or Trest if you are looking to grow.

But based on your goals being more recomp-focused, I’d go Mast. You will need more mg of it than Tren, at least double.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

So I will be coming up Sunday on the end of week two of TRT. Slow cutting. I am down to 191.5. Still taking T3 as I am weening off slowly. I feel good all around. I need to dial in my estrogen. At 600mg with the Tren I was using 25mg a week split dosage and that was money. I tried only 6.5 a week now and I don't think that was enough. Slight break out on back. Not feeling as strong for erections. Will try 12.5mg split. I will be going to my PCP tomorrow and seeing how she can work with me on managing labs to help with harm reduction. She seems cool so promising.

I was thinking about my next ramp up and I was wondering about thoughts on this. Take off 8 weeks of anything but my cruise. (so in 6 weeks) then add Run RAD 140 @ 15-20mg for 6-8 weeks. I would add some clen 40 -80mcg and still be on maintenance T3. My goal is to get to 12% BF. Im not big on Sarms. I tried Ostarine once and felt good until week 4 and then felt like ****. Cardarine makes my thyroid hurt. Then in the fall run another blast, not sure of the compounds.

Open to thoughts.

 

[Hyde]

What is your estimated bodyfat currently?

Rad is pretty damn mild man, at least at that dosage. Not sure it would even be worth the lipid hit for 20mg oral.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

What is your estimated bodyfat currently?

Rad is pretty damn mild man, at least at that dosage. Not sure it would even be worth the lipid hit for 20mg oral.

17% but like real 17% not the whole I think I am and I am 20%+

I have visible top abs and a really pronounced V with veins.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

What is your estimated bodyfat currently?

Rad is pretty damn mild man, at least at that dosage. Not sure it would even be worth the lipid hit for 20mg oral.

What would be a better suggestion. Gost of RAd 140 shipped for me at 20mg for 6 weeks would be $93.

What other compounds would you suggest? DHB? 200mg?

I don't want to run tren again for a while.

 

[Hyde]

What would be a better suggestion. Gost of RAd 140 shipped for me at 20mg for 6 weeks would be $93.

What other compounds would you suggest? DHB? 200mg?

I don't want to run tren again for a while.

I appreciate that you don’t understand this, but you just asked me if instead of a pocket knife you should go with a bazooka…

No, you should NOT use DHB. It is not remotely ideal for a casual cut. Or most any cut, unless you want to hate your life from the low blood sugar and hanger you’ll inflict on everyone around you.

I would look at running the RAD at a higher dosage, and/or injectable (injectable did not give me the acid reflux oral always does). It has a long half life so eod shots are fine. I would look at something like 50mg eod injected or 45mg daily oral. MA Research has both oral liquid preparations and a sterile oil-based vial.

You could also look at something like 50mg Anavar.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

I appreciate that you don’t understand this, but you just asked me if instead of a pocket knife you should go with a bazooka…

No, you should NOT use DHB. It is not remotely ideal for a casual cut. Or most any cut, unless you want to hate your life from the low blood sugar and hanger you’ll inflict on everyone around you.

I would look at running the RAD at a higher dosage, and/or injectable (injectable did not give me the acid reflux oral always does). It has a long half life so eod shots are fine. I would look at something like 50mg eod injected or 45mg daily oral. MA Research has both oral liquid preparations and a sterile oil-based vial.

You could also look at something like 50mg Anavar.

I hear where you are coming from for sure.

Anavar fucked my lipids so hard. Harder than anything I ever experienced. I also feel my lipids never came back as strong as they where after. I know people love them some Anavar but I'll never touch it again.

Totally appricate where you are coming from on the Rad. Will check out MA. Thanks!

 

[Nac]

Why even go the oral/SARM route? I thought Hydes and Mikes suggestions above of masteron or primo worth considering. I mean if youre genuinely looking at a recomp phase, Id think we'd be talking at least 3 months. Recomps are sloooow, esp at lower bodyfats. Mast or primo would fit the bill nicely.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Primo is just too pricy for me. 10ml vial $110 - 200mg Primo E. Just can't swing it for that price.

Masteron yes am considering it. Sarms.. agreed after looking at the cost to benefit it's not worth it when I have access to real gear.

 

[Nac]

I prefer mast over primo myself. Much better all-rounder.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Primo is just too pricy for me. 10ml vial $110 - 200mg Primo E. Just can't swing it for that price.

Masteron yes am considering it. Sarms.. agreed after looking at the cost to benefit it's not worth it when I have access to real gear.

For the same price as primo i can get Mast and generic gh

 

[Hyde]

For the same price as primo i can get Mast and generic gh

And this is a sick combo for leaning out, for me it was

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Just got back form my PCP. She is super fucking cool.

Basically, I'm putting myself on TRT, which will run the next year (really a cruise). She said then I can come off. Tank my levels under 300 and then she will send me to urology and put me on prescribed TRT through insurance. She is ok with my blast and cruise for next year as long as my current blood work comes back decent. She ran all of it through insurance.

After that, I will have my script and just need to navigate between checkups for any blasts. Short esters and 8 weeks, stuff like that.

 

[Nac]

And this is a sick combo for leaning out, for me it was

Generic? How many IUs per day did you run and over what time period was that?

 

[Hyde]

Generic? How many IUs per day did you run and over what time period was that?

Generic. GH is GH if it’s dosed honestly.

2ius about 5-6 days a week over a couple months. Using it with L-Carnitine before fasted cardio (with a cap of Alpha-Y, Green Tea, 20mcg Clen, 5mg GW, coffee, Keto lytes {sodium or insulin is necessary for carnitine transport}). I would do that before LISS while fasting at least 3 days a week and every time it was like it was torching fat. The other 2-3 days of GH use were pre-bed for training recovery in a deficit.

I was on 180 test, 80 mast e, and initially 50mg S4, then later 30/30mg of an injectable Rad140 & S23 blend to use up junk I won’t re-buy. But the recomp was significant. I would advise someone to skip the lipid-smashing SARMs and just run ~250/250 test/mast, do the precardio supps, do the work & diet.

Also, the Clen was specifically 3x a week precardio, not basal.

 

[Nac]

Generic. GH is GH if it’s dosed honestly.

2ius about 5-6 days a week over a couple months. Using it with L-Carnitine before fasted cardio (with a cap of Alpha-Y, Green Tea, 20mcg Clen, 5mg GW, coffee, Keto lytes {sodium or insulin is necessary for carnitine transport}). I would do that before LISS while fasting at least 3 days a week and every time it was like it was torching fat. The other 2-3 days of GH use were pre-bed for training recovery in a deficit.

I was on 180 test, 80 mast e, and initially 50mg S4, then later 30/30mg of an injectable Rad140 & S23 blend to use up junk I won’t re-buy. But the recomp was significant. I would advise someone to skip the lipid-smashing SARMs and just run ~250/250 test/mast, do the precardio supps, do the work & diet.

Also, the Clen was specifically 3x a week precardio, not basal.

Cheers man.

Re gh is gh....I initially found the reasoning here pretty compelling and intuitive. But theres a podcast where Scott Stevenson states there are different chains of endogenous gh, and each amino chain has different effects in the body. Im grossly oversimplifying but his claim was that these different amino chains, whilst still all technically "gh", would account for some of the individual disparity in results and why some users are adamant some generic can come with more sides than pharma. Further complicating this is the disparity amongst users in regards to receptors and a whole host of other enzymes.

 

[Mikereyn513]

And this is a sick combo for leaning out, for me it was

It's working just fine as we speak..I did sprinkle in a like tren ace...full transparency

 

[Mikereyn513]

Cheers man.

Re gh is gh....I initially found the reasoning here pretty compelling and intuitive. But theres a podcast where Scott Stevenson states there are different chains of endogenous gh, and each amino chain has different effects in the body. Im grossly oversimplifying but his claim was that these different amino chains, whilst still all technically "gh", would account for some of the individual disparity in results and why some users are adamant some generic can come with more sides than pharma. Further complicating this is the disparity amongst users in regards to receptors and a whole host of other enzymes.

The generic I have checks out..I'm rotate 2iu one day/ 3iu the next so a vial lasts me 4 days and a kit will last 40. I have t4 and clen on hand but I need to order some gw and injectable l carnatine

 

[Nac]

The generic I have checks out..I'm rotate 2iu one day/ 3iu the next so a vial lasts me 4 days and a kit will last 40.

Yeah I think thats where Ill ultimately end up. Cant see myself pushing 4iu per day. And those big bolus infrequent doses guys like Chase Iron have suggested, nah.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Got back blood work. Waiting on the doctor to call. Definitely have some liver damage going on. I figured this..... So not surprised.

Alanine Aminotransferase	129 U/L	<50 U/L
Aspartate Aminotransferase	95 U/L	16 - 63 U/L

So not good but still have the Tren coming out of my system im sure for another week. Everything else looks good. No other issues in fact some blood markers look better which is kind of funny.

I know those two are pretty high. So I'll see what she says but considering I'm like 17 days off from my last Tren E injection/Tbol 50mg/clen, I figured they would be high. Hopefully, not too much damage done. I knew what I was getting into

 

[Mikereyn513]

Yeah I think thats where Ill ultimately end up. Cant see myself pushing 4iu per day. And those big bolus infrequent doses guys like Chase Iron have suggested, nah.

Yea when I saw chase irons fo that I was like wtf!? I usually like his ideas. Yea I say start at 2 and go from there. Work your way up to 4. I dint think there's any reason to go higher than that especially in the beginning

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

* guess its only the Aspartate Aminotransferase that is bad. The other is good.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

OK folks since recent developments of what my doctor offered me as solutions. Longterm TRT through insurance.... I have been able to refigure out my spend and am trying to think long term gains/ harm reduction. So there are a few options (critic please as I am still learning). Goal is to continue to recomp/ cut. Today I was 191. So still cutting and working

225mg Test E cruise as a base but would likely bump to 300 during the additions

Option 1
200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Mast E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

Option2
200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Tren E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

Might be able to swing this as a 3rd option

200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Tren E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)
100mg Mast E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

I also have 60 tabs of 25mg of Turinabol.

Yes yes, I know Tren again. It's just so damn cheap and powerful. Light dose though?

HGH does work because I have to refrigerate that stuff. I already have to have hcg in a corkcicle water bottle on ice to preserve it since the wife isn't on board until I go legit prescription

lastly Cytomel. So I got back my labs this is on 50mcg t4 and 50mcg t3. I am going to ask her if I can stay on 50mcg t4 and 25mcg t3 because if you look at free t3 I am not that far out of range. If I halved it to 25mcg I'd probably be in rance and TSH would probably be in range or close. Again I hypothyroid/hasimotos, so these numbers are not easy for me to get down. I will take some t4 always.

 

[Mikereyn513]

In all seriousness,if you're really about health and longevity, instead of spending money on primo and mast, get some gh and a coach

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

In all seriousness,if you're really about health and longevity, instead of spending money on primo and mast, get some gh and a coach

You misinterpret longevity. Not living longer, **** that noise. I would fucking hate being 80+. My father in law is 80 and although he is a nice dude and I love him. I would off myself. The joy in his life is going down to the YMCA and playing sodoku with some other old farts once a week. **** that noise man. I am talking about not fucking my liver kidneys and heart and dying at 55. Big difference

It's like a car. I am a car guy. I don't want a car to send me to point a to b. I want to have fun along the way and if that means supercharging my engine and wearing down the pistons and rings some, then fine. Fucking damn right it's worth it being pushed back in your seat or driving a curving road while the tires are hugging. All worth the wear on rings and pistons but if I can make sure I don't boost too much and I get all my regular maintenance done. Probably will last longer.

Not interested in a coach honestly. As I explained unless I want an instant divorce from honey what is human growth hormone doing in our fridge.. its not an option right now or really even in the future.

 

[Mikereyn513]

You misinterpret longevity. Not living longer, **** that noise. I would fucking hate being 80+. My father in law is 80 and although he is a nice dude and I love him. I would off myself. The joy in his life is going down to the YMCA and playing sodoku with some other old farts once a week. **** that noise man. I am talking about not fucking my liver kidneys and heart and dying at 55. Big difference

It's like a car. I am a car guy. I don't want a car to send me to point a to b. I want to have fun along the way and if that means supercharging my engine and wearing down the pistons and rings some, then fine. Fucking damn right it's worth it being pushed back in your seat or driving a curving road while the tires are hugging. All worth the wear on rings and pistons but if I can make sure I don't boost too much and I get all my regular maintenance done. Probably will last longer.

Not interested in a coach honestly. As I explained unless I want an instant divorce from honey what is human growth hormone doing in our fridge.. its not an option right now or really even in the future.

I know exactly what you mean by longevity that's why I don't understand the tren. That should honestly only be used if you're doing some sort of completion or something if it's just to look good naked than you don't need it. Test mast diet and cardio with hellos mixed in every once in awhile

 

[Hyde]

Cheers man.

Re gh is gh....I initially found the reasoning here pretty compelling and intuitive. But theres a podcast where Scott Stevenson states there are different chains of endogenous gh, and each amino chain has different effects in the body. Im grossly oversimplifying but his claim was that these different amino chains, whilst still all technically "gh", would account for some of the individual disparity in results and why some users are adamant some generic can come with more sides than pharma. Further complicating this is the disparity amongst users in regards to receptors and a whole host of other enzymes.

First, I have always enjoyed & appreciated Dr Scott’s work - I go out of my way to read and listen to content from/with him, for many years now. Always find little gems of knowledge, or at least make me think about something new/cool.

I didn’t go into it, but something I feel helped me shed fat over months also was using a Synephrine/Naringin/Hesperidin combo he specifically turned me onto.

That understood, everything he’s saying about different chains of endogenous GH and related enzymes, to my bro knowledge, is true. BUT, if you are taking Recombinant HGH, that is always specifically the 191 amino acid (aa) sequence. It doesn’t matter if you bought it from big pharma or in a back alley, if it is typical HGH we’re using the 191aa product.

* guess its only the Aspartate Aminotransferase that is bad. The other is good.

You didn’t do permanent damage, but those elevations reflect the stress Tren & Turinabol caused. You don’t need to worry, but you should consider a bottle of NAC or something to help recover your levels faster (like a bottle of Swanson 1g caps, taken once daily).

OK folks since recent developments of what my doctor offered me as solutions. Longterm TRT through insurance.... I have been able to refigure out my spend and am trying to think long term gains/ harm reduction. So there are a few options (critic please as I am still learning). Goal is to continue to recomp/ cut. Today I was 191. So still cutting and working

225mg Test E cruise as a base but would likely bump to 300 during the additions

Option 1
200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Mast E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

Option2
200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Tren E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

Might be able to swing this as a 3rd option

200mg Primo E (weeks 1 -20)
100mg Tren E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)
100mg Mast E ( weeks 1 - 20) or 200mg weeks (10-20)

I also have 60 tabs of 25mg of Turinabol.

Yes yes, I know Tren again. It's just so damn cheap and powerful. Light dose though?

HGH does work because I have to refrigerate that stuff. I already have to have hcg in a corkcicle water bottle on ice to preserve it since the wife isn't on board until I go legit prescription

lastly Cytomel. So I got back my labs this is on 50mcg t4 and 50mcg t3. I am going to ask her if I can stay on 50mcg t4 and 25mcg t3 because if you look at free t3 I am not that far out of range. If I halved it to 25mcg I'd probably be in rance and TSH would probably be in range or close. Again I hypothyroid/hasimotos, so these numbers are not easy for me to get down. I will take some t4 always.

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No amount of Tren is healthy. Do not use Tren for 20 weeks. Better to use 200mg for the last 10 weeks than 100mg for 20 weeks, because while it’s the same total drug exposure you will spend 2.5 less months with skewed lipids and a stressed liver. Taking 100mg Dbol daily for 10 days is healthier than taking 10mg Dbol for 100 days straight, said another way.

I prefer option 1, with 200mg Mast added the last 10 weeks. This is the mildest solution but it will have minimal health impacts compared to the Tren. You don’t want to be someone who has to use Tren every cycle to make progress because you don’t know how to do anything other than lean on the drugs. What you learn progressing while going without it will set you up awesomely for the next Tren go next year.

I am no doctor, but I would agree that you should try to stay on 25mcg T3 for a month or so, if only to mitigate a fat rebound while you taper your diet and then check levels again before considering whether to drop it entirely or not.

 

[Nac]

It sounds like youre goal is to gradually improve body composition over the course of 20 or so weeks?

Recomping is tricky because it can be difficult to sustain over longer periods. Easy to accomplish, relatively, when you are in an initial transition say between a dietary change or drug change/increase. Your body wants to fight against sh1t and reach homeostasis, though. So to keep recomposition rolling, you need to be constantly adapting (diet, and/or the drugs).

If drugs stay the same across the time period, youll prolly need to increase the kcal deficit to sustain the fat loss you want....but at the detriment of now adding muscle. Or, you stick to the same kcal deficit, fatloss slows, you might sustain the muscle increase, but more than likely you plataeu out.

Alternatively you increase the drug intake over time to keep the recomp going. And this is the cost of long term recomping. You have to modify *some* input to keep it happening. Otherwise, adaptation and homeostasis.

So recomping is possible, but it will require modifying one of the inputs (drugs) at some point if you want to sustain both the fatloss *and* the muscle gain. If increasing the drugs is not an option, do what Phil Viz does with his competitors when they begin prep: start off with a small modest kcal deficit and ride that out for as long as possible. When fat loss stalls, like genuinely stalls, switch to a properly focused fatloss phase and decrease kcals as you normally would. But obviously, this strategy assumes your current goal or focus is less body fat and not maximal lean tissue gains.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

OK so after doing some research, I feel like I am starting to go down the right paths.

For the record, I'll do Tren again someday but not too soon.

I will save to do a primo 20+ week at 600mg next year sometime but between now and then I want to do some low and slow gains. but it's like a grand to run that for 25 weeks.

I was thinking after I have a full rest from my last blast. another 8 weeks (10 weeks off) I'd like to do something like this.

Weeks 1 - 20 300mg Test E (split 3x a week)
Weeks 1- 20 150mg - 200mg NPP (split 3x times a week)
T3 continues at 25 mcg
T4 50mcg prescribed
Clen cycled on and off.

My biggest questions are dosage and if the length is too long even if that is low.
Should I do 150 or 200?
I read it's not that bad on lipids or liver...... Is that accurate?

 

[Hyde]

It’s not unsafe, but dosage should be determined by how you respond. You might feel like a water buffalo on that, or you may love how you look & feel. It may aggravate gyno, or make your dick soft. Or you may have crazy libido and sexual performance. You can’t know until you try it.

Be easy on the Clen. It can make your heart grow over time and promote cardiac dysfunction. It’s not something to use a ton of.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

It’s not unsafe, but dosage should be determined by how you respond. You might feel like a water buffalo on that, or you may love how you look & feel. It may aggravate gyno, or make your dick soft. Or you may have crazy libido and sexual performance. You can’t know until you try it.

Be easy on the Clen. It can make your heart grow over time and promote cardiac dysfunction. It’s not something to use a ton of.

My thought is to eat around maintenance again. Do you feel that would help with water weight? See I heard that about NPP but I heard the opposite too. Also I will take it really easy on the clen.

 

[Hyde]

My thought is to eat around maintenance again. Do you feel that would help with water weight? See I heard that about NPP but I heard the opposite too. Also I will take it really easy on the clen.

Nandrolone is going to increase aromatization, and like all of the 19-Nor family have significant impacts renin-aldosterone system.

So how much it makes your test convert to estrogen, how your body handles that, and how much it impacts mineral retention is going to be specific to you.

You can take more AI to limit that conversion, and you can take an ARB like Telmisartan to prevent that steroid-mediated mineral hyper-retention (which will also greatly mitigate BP increases), but whether you will need or want to do that vs just using something else will come down to how you respond and what you desire.

For me, Test & Deca only was making me a smooth Michelin man with a soft pecker by week 3, hadn’t even reached stable levels of my 300/200 weekly dosage. Dropped Nandrolone for Mast and everything resolved nicely. Other people LOVE Test & Nandrolone, and it’s definitely the superior bulking stack. But it depends on how you respond.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Nandrolone is going to increase aromatization, and like all of the 19-Nor family have significant impacts renin-aldosterone system.

So how much it makes your test convert to estrogen, how your body handles that, and how much it impacts mineral retention is going to be specific to you.

You can take more AI to limit that conversion, and you can take an ARB like Telmisartan to prevent that steroid-mediated mineral hyper-retention (which will also greatly mitigate BP increases), but whether you will need or want to do that vs just using something else will come down to how you respond and what you desire.

For me, Test & Deca only was making me a smooth Michelin man with a soft pecker by week 3, hadn’t even reached stable levels of my 300/200 weekly dosage. Dropped Nandrolone for Mast and everything resolved nicely. Other people LOVE Test & Nandrolone, and it’s definitely the superior bulking stack. But it depends on how you respond.

Would running 300mg test for the next 6 months to year be better or worse than the NNP and test?

 

[Hyde]

Assuming you’re watching your CBC and Iron and making sure blood isn’t getting too thick, and being willing to donate or get therapeutic phlebotomy from your doctor if so, it’s probably fairly low risk.

Less drugs is always healthier, and also less anabolic. It just depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Assuming you’re watching your CBC and Iron and making sure blood isn’t getting too thick, and being willing to donate or get therapeutic phlebotomy from your doctor if so, it’s probably fairly low risk.

Less drugs is always healthier, and also less anabolic. It just depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

Yeah my doc said to keep donating every 2 months or so. I have another appointment schedule in 4 weeks. My Hemoglobin was 15.2 so not bad at all.

The goal is still essentially recomp but I would say more specifically next 3 months continue to cut. Get down to sub 15% maybe 12%, then slow bulk maybe add another 10lbs of muscle over 9 months while maintaining under 15%. Not sure if that is realistic. So 6 months 300mg Test E and then cruise on 200-225ish Test E until 1-year mark. Then will probably go legit TRT with help from doc. Not sure if that gain/loss is reasonable or not.

 

[Hyde]

Do not donate every 8 weeks unless your ferritin is staying high on bloodwork. That’s a terrific way to make yourself weaker and eventually anemic.

And 15 Hemoglobin is flat out low for the enhanced athlete. You don’t need to be donating until in the 17s. It took me 2 years of blast & cruise to ever break 18. Everyone is different, but do not blindly donate that often.

This is why bloods every 3-4 months is a good idea. Prevents anything from staying undetected for too long. A CBC & CMP out of pocket with lipids can be had privately for ~$100. Then if anything shows a big red flag, you can order more specific testing to drill in deeper.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Yeah my doc said to keep donating every 2 months or so. I have another appointment schedule in 4 weeks. My Hemoglobin was 15.2 so not bad at all.

The goal is still essentially recomp but I would say more specifically next 3 months continue to cut. Get down to sub 15% maybe 12%, then slow bulk maybe add another 10lbs of muscle over 9 months while maintaining under 15%. Not sure if that is realistic. So 6 months 300mg Test E and then cruise on 200-225ish Test E until 1-year mark. Then will probably go legit TRT with help from doc. Not sure if that gain/loss is reasonable or not.

It all depends on your diet and how hard/often you train

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

It all depends on your diet and how hard/often you train

5 days a week lifting for hypertrophy @ 65% max 6-8 sets of 12. 3 exercises per muscle group on average. Cardio now 5 times a week 45mins - elliptical. Eating 2000 calories. Macros about 220P/180C/50F

I believe my maintenance is only about 2000-2100 because of my thyroid. My fancy T-rex 2 says I burn about 800 calories over maintenance.

 

[Mikereyn513]

5 days a week lifting for hypertrophy @ 65% max 6-8 sets of 12. 3 exercises per muscle group on average. Cardio now 5 times a week 45mins - elliptical. Eating 2000 calories. Macros about 220P/180C/50F

I believe my maintenance is only about 2000-2100 because of my thyroid. My fancy T-rex 2 says I burn about 800 calories over maintenance.

That's going to be a brutal cut 1600 calories!? Say goodbye to carbs lol

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Oh, I don't plan on subtracting calories. I am adding calories burned. I will do more cardio and more walking to get the deficit. So right now I am burning 2800 on average eating 2000. I'd like to keep it about the same. And then when i bulk reduce cardio some to 2500 calories burn and eat about 2700 - 2800. First cut though.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

I had a few extra hundred dollars drop in my lap today out of nowhere. I will be running 300/300 Test E primo. Test for 6 months. Primo for 20 weeks (5 Months). I be running clen (cycle on and off) and t3 at a low dosage.

 

[DinosaurMuffins]

Real update today.

Weight: 189.5 (target prior to blast below is 180lbs
Still eating maintenance at for BMR. 2100 calories. Some days I go over slightly, like last night I had homemade popcorn with my wife on the couch while watching TV. Probably came in at 2400 calories. Despite that, I am still losing weight because I am averaging an extra 800 calories a day in burn from lifting and/or cardio. I don't feel I have lost almost anything from my blast I just came off 3 weeks ago (except for the extreme sex drive from Tren, it's now more manageable, but still high).

My future plan as of now is this: Starting June 12th (about 11 weeks after my blast)
The goal is to bring calories up to 2500 cut back on cardio some and lean bulk.

Option A
300mg Test E (25 weeks)
300mg Primo E (25 weeks)
12.5 Dbol ED (last 14 weeks) <- have read this relatively safe and Arnold ran it like this. (this is to make sure my estrogen is balanced and I don't tank it and still have small gains.
HCG 800 ius (split into 2x weekly)

Option B (afraid I'll tank Estrogen)
300mg Test E (25 weeks)
300mg Primo E (25 weeks)
250 Masteron E ( last 20 weeks)
HCG 800 ius (split into 2x weekly)

Option C
300mg Test E (25 weeks)
300mg Primo E (25 weeks)
250mg Tren E (weeks 15 - 25)
HCG 800 ius (split into 2x weekly)

Additionally, I'll be running 25mcg of t3 so full replacement and I will run 6 weeks total clen at the beginning 2 on 2 off at 40-50mcg)