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Dietary Carb vs Fat; which will result in more fat storage

Entirely off topic here:

What do you guys like to start with first when starting to cut;

Dropping calories or adding cardio?

I'm being indecisive. Hate cardio, love food. Lol
 
The majority show that low carb nutrition with a higher protein intake is better for weight loss. I have stated this already.

No actually you didnt, just flipped your position. I always find it funny how people hop on a thread, contradict replies, then say someones personal when they get proven wrong with research. Again I dont care, I hope we can all get swoll and cut on any diet we can all enjoy but as Hodge Twisn says "Do whatever you want to do@". I was just trying to answer the OPs questions, not get you to finally agree with what has been throughly and scientifically proven. Disagree with the science if you like, it doesn't make it any less true.
 
Entirely off topic here:

What do you guys like to start with first when starting to cut;

Dropping calories or adding cardio?

I'm being indecisive. Hate cardio, love food. Lol

OMG you really are wanting to start the trolling arent you?

Cutting cals. 6 packs are made in the kitchen. You will build metabolic resistance and add stress, cortisol, fatique, etc doing cardio. If you must do something do HIIT fasted twice a week for 20 mins.
 
You need to be very careful extrapolating conclusions from those.

Look again and you will notice how many of them don't standardise protein intake. In terms of measuring body composition this is a huge flaw.

You cannot conclude low carbs are better, you can conclude low carbs are better if you also ingest more protein which isn't very surprising.

I am not necessarily an advocate of higher carb low fat dieting. I am just pointing out that you are suggesting rigid conclusions where they are in fact much more debatable.

I actually stated this exactly. In the research you cited, low carb diets outperformed low fat diets when protein intake was higher lol.
 
OMG you really are wanting to start the trolling arent you?

Cutting cals. 6 packs are made in the kitchen. You will build metabolic resistance and add stress, cortisol, fatique, etc doing cardio. If you must do something do HIIT fasted twice a week for 20 mins.

Wow.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or fall out of it entirely?

I was just trying to shift the topic as things were/are getting more gauged to hostility than debate.

My mistake I shall leave you too it brother
 
OMG you really are wanting to start the trolling arent you?

Cutting cals. 6 packs are made in the kitchen. You will build metabolic resistance and add stress, cortisol, fatique, etc doing cardio. If you must do something do HIIT fasted twice a week for 20 mins.

I am not sure whether I dare to ask this but I may as well given the way the thread has gone.

Can you show me solid data to show fasted cardio is better than fed?

Alan does a good job of summarising the research on this topic; Invalid Link Removed
 
Entirely off topic here:

What do you guys like to start with first when starting to cut;

Dropping calories or adding cardio?

I'm being indecisive. Hate cardio, love food. Lol

For me it depends on how often I am training already. If someone has room for cardio then they may add that in prior to reducing caloric intake. I like to keep some degree of cardio training throughout the year for fitness purposes so for me it tends to be deficit first, additional cardio second.

Your question was perfectly sound, don't worry.
 
I am not sure whether I dare to ask this but I may as well given the way the thread has gone.

Can you show me solid data to show fasted cardio is better than fed?

Alan does a good job of summarising the research on this topic; Invalid Link Removed

bdcc you're officially a troll. Enjoy things on flat earth sir.
 
Lololololol.


There's no way this can't be trolling. This is killing me hahahaha
 
Based on this thread I probably have insulin resistance, never burn fat while I sleep and just put on fat, and am ruining my body with cardio. :(
 
bdcc you're officially a troll. Enjoy things on flat earth sir.

I am the complete opposite. I am open to discussing ideas from all sides and don't show signs of getting wound up at any point.

If you had said to me "I personally think low carb is better. There is a shortfall with the research because a lot of low carb studies do not standardise protein intake so that classes as a confounding variable" I wouldn't have even second guessed you. It is important to point out the limitations of any research. :)
 
Entirely off topic here: What do you guys like to start with first when starting to cut; Dropping calories or adding cardio? I'm being indecisive. Hate cardio, love food. Lol

Depends on the situation. In general for those I work with we build up to a certain total amount of training time per week, so if they have room well slowly increase that until a certain level. Once that is reached then I'll start some mild restrictions.

This depends on if they can add more time though. For those that are busier and can't then ya restriction first. But taking food away sucks so I hate doing that right away. Lol
 
Depends on the situation. In general for those I work with we build up to a certain total amount of training time per week, so if they have room well slowly increase that until a certain level. Once that is reached then I'll start some mild restrictions.

This depends on if they can add more time though. For those that are busier and can't then ya restriction first. But taking food away sucks so I hate doing that right away. Lol

Thank you, and Ben, for the replies.

Going to move all my morning carbs to preworkout meal (2 hours prior) and up my intensity to start.

I like taking it slow in a cut.
2 weeks of that.
then add morning HIIT 3 days a week
2 weeks of that
Then start taking out carbs slowly on a weekly basis.

I've never had a coach or trainer so your guys' opinions are very much appreciated.

The mirror is my coach.
 
Listen to Sean. He is ripped.

Even if he does eat carbs and have insulin resistance and chronically elevated cortisol from*once per week cardio. ;)
 
Thank you, and Ben, for the replies. Going to move all my morning carbs to preworkout meal (2 hours prior) and up my intensity to start. I like taking it slow in a cut. 2 weeks of that. then add morning HIIT 3 days a week 2 weeks of that Then start taking out carbs slowly on a weekly basis. I've never had a coach or trainer so your guys' opinions are very much appreciated. The mirror is my coach.

Sounds like a good start. I only like to add change when things slow down.

In light of this thread is it blasphemous that my fats get lower and I eat a higher percentage of carbs the leaner I get???

Listen to Sean. He is ripped. Even if he does eat carbs and have insulin resistance and chronically elevated cortisol from*once per week cardio. ;)

;)
 
I do the same with fat intake on a cut. It bloats me more than carbs so once I'm lean I avoid them. Joints absolute me hate me through summer
 
True enough but whats the standard of protein? Even among bodybuilders, studies, usda guidelines, etc etc that varies. I dont think anyones recommended a low protein diet, almost all diets are a restriction of carbs and/or fats.

In fact very little protein is needed for muscle building. For example studies have shown post workout supplementing leucine dramatically reduces the amount of protein needed. Even the standard generic whey scoop is around 20-25g of protein, not much more than a few ounces of meat or cheese.

In those studies while the low fat group may not have been equal protein certainly they had enough and surplus protein in the low carb group would have hurt weight loss. In fact too much protein will break ketosis.

So my point is even high fat, ultra low carb, moderate fat is a viable option for both weight loss and lean muscle gains. The standard yolo-bro diet of lean chicken and brown rice CAN work but so could a diet of big macs and cheetos. In fact in the evening low GI, complex carbs are worse than simple because you go to bed with carbs still unprocessed which will turn to fat rather than uptake into muscles and the sugar will blow your GH release.

BS as its best. You should read the chaos and pain article about carb backloading. It may open your mind...
 
500g. F**k. Bob, I am so jealous right now lol.
 
I know, right?

I would just add some Select protein into full tubs of ice cream and eat that all day ;)

I'm at 300-400g daily, 5 weeks out from a competition. Off season, those numbers double. :)
 
Based on this thread I probably have insulin resistance, never burn fat while I sleep and just put on fat, and am ruining my body with cardio. :(

Really? I got that eating carbs while doing lots of cardio was the way to a prefect body. Thats why runners are buff right? ^_^

Seriously its been a fun debate, time to move on. I hope the OP got some materials to read on from both sides and can make his own choice on how to proceed.
 
The OP is probably like WTF just happened in here lol.

Oh and Look at food gain 7lbs of muscle, but 22lbs of fat crew checking in!
 
In on thread.

Time for science bisches.

More fat = better for CVD: Invalid Link Removed

Carbs increase blood triglycerides --> increased blood trigs = smaller LDL particles = greater chance of LDL oxidation: Invalid Link Removed

Saturated fats are not bad: Invalid Link Removed

Gluconeogensis from fatty acids to glucose:
The question whether fatty acids can be converted into glucose in humans has a long standing tradition in biochemistry, and the expected answer is "No". Using recent advances in Systems Biology in the form of large-scale metabolic reconstructions, we reassessed this question by performing a global investigation of a genome-scale human metabolic network, which had been reconstructed on the basis of experimental results. By elementary flux pattern analysis, we found numerous pathways on which gluconeogenesis from fatty acids is feasible in humans. On these pathways, four moles of acetyl-CoA are converted into one mole of glucose and two moles of CO₂. Analyzing the detected pathways in detail we found that their energetic requirements potentially limit their capacity. This study has many other biochemical implications: effect of starvation, sports physiology, practically carbohydrate-free diets of inuit, as well as survival of hibernating animals and embryos of egg-laying animals. Moreover, the energetic loss associated to the usage of gluconeogenesis from fatty acids can help explain the efficiency of carbohydrate reduced and ketogenic diets such as the Atkins diet.

PMID: 21814506

FFT

LC vs. LF diets compared: Invalid Link Removed

Most report LC is better than LF

I also have studies showing increased sugar has negative effects on CVD.

Moderate reduction in carbs reverses some effects of the metabolic syndrome: Moderate CHO Restriction & MetS
12-06-2013, 07:23 AM
It appears to only take a fairly modest reduction in CHO intake to reverse some of the deleterious effects of metabolic syndrome.


Nutrition. 2014 Jan;30(1):61-8. doi: 10.1016/j.nut.2013.06.011.
Moderate replacement of carbohydrates by dietary fats affects features of metabolic syndrome: A randomized crossover clinical trial.
Rajaie S, Azadbakht L, Khazaei M, Sherbafchi M, Esmaillzadeh A.
Source
Food Security Research Center, Isfahan University of Medical Sciences, Isfahan, Iran; Department of Community Nutrition, School of Nutrition and Food Science, Isfahan University of Medical Sciences, Isfahan, Iran.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE:
Earlier studies on the management of metabolic syndrome (MetS) have mostly focused on very low carbohydrate diets, whereas long-term adherence to such diets is difficult for apparently healthy people. The aim of this study was to examine the effects of moderate replacement of carbohydrates by dietary fats on insulin resistance and features of MetS among women.

METHODS:
This randomized crossover clinical trial was performed with 30 overweight or obese (body mass index [BMI] > 25 kg/m(2)) women with MetS. After a 2-wk run-in period, participants were randomly assigned to consume either a calorie-restricted high-carbohydrate (HC) diet (60%-65% of energy from carbohydrates and 20%-25% from fats) or a calorie-restricted moderately restricted carbohydrate (MRC) diet (43%-47% of total calories as carbohydrate and 36%-40% as dietary fats) for 6 wk. Protein contents of both diets were 15% to 17% of total energy. A 2-wk washout period was applied following which participants were crossed over to the alternate treatment arm for an additional 6 wk. Anthropometric, blood pressure, and biochemical measurements were performed before and after each phase of intervention.

RESULTS:
Mean age and BMI of study participants was 42.4 y and 33 kg/m(2), respectively. A trend toward greater reduction in waist (-3.9 versus -2.6 cm; P = 0.07) and hip circumferences (-2.7 versus -1.5 cm; P = 0.07) as well as serum triglyceride (TG) levels (-31.3 versus 0.13 mg/dL; P = 0.07) was observed after consumption of an MRC diet compared with an HC diet. The TG to high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) ratio had a tendency to improve with the MRC diet rather than the HC diet (-0.9 versus -0.1; P = 0.06). Consumption of the MRC diet resulted in a greater reduction of systolic blood pressure (-8.93 versus -2.97 mm Hg; P = 0.06) and diastolic blood pressure (-12.7 versus -1.77 mm Hg; P = 0.001) compared with the HC diet. The prevalence of MetS was significantly decreased following the consumption of the MRC diet (P = 0.03). The two diets were not significantly different in terms of their effect on fasting plasma glucose, serum HDL-C, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and total cholesterol, insulin levels, and Homeostasis Model Assessment-Insulin Resistance.

CONCLUSION:
Moderate replacement of carbohydrates by dietary fats was not associated with statistically different changes in fasting plasma glucose, insulin, or atherogenic dyslipidemia among individuals with the metabolic syndrome; however, it resulted in decreased diastolic blood pressure and lower prevalence of the metabolic syndrome.

An article, but interesting read on carbs and the brain: Invalid Link Removed

I literally have many more.

Im in the Low carb band camp
 
No no.

Definitely no. It's a start. But too many other things are involved in the metabolic pathways for fat loss

Nutritional biochem is just not that simple

But a calorie deficit implies weight loss just as an excess implies weight gain. It may not be the end all be all, but it is by the most important determining factor.
 
Most pf my studies are on health, not performance though or body comp though. Also granted that the negative effects of carbs are generally caused by being overweight.
 
Tl;dr, carbs raise insulin and all carbs are bad.

Eating before bed makes you fat.

Hayden said so.
 
Tl;dr, carbs raise insulin and all carbs are bad.

Eating before bed makes you fat.

Hayden said so.

Haha!

Glad we settled that
 
But a calorie deficit implies weight loss just as an excess implies weight gain. It may not be the end all be all, but it is by the most important determining factor.

Not arguing that.

But a calorie is not a calorie when looking at individual macronutrients
 
Not arguing that.

But a calorie is not a calorie when looking at individual macronutrients

Agreed. Everything is very complicated lol
 
Bodies and metabolisms are complicated. And vary so much person to person that it is almost useless taking macro ratio advice from anyone else.

It is an instance where we are best off educating ourselves. Track consistently, monitor results closely, and in time learn your own body
 
Bodies and metabolisms are complicated. And vary so much person to person that it is almost useless taking macro ratio advice from anyone else.

It is an instance where we are best off educating ourselves. Track consistently, monitor results closely, and in time learn your own body

Macro ratios are silly anyway. Its all about g/kg/bw
 
Well I am the OP, still here, still reading...

...eyes still spinning and confused as ever. The only real take away and definitive answer I have accepted is "there is no spoon"
 
Well I am the OP, still here, still reading...

...eyes still spinning and confused as ever. The only real take away and definitive answer I have accepted is "there is no spoon"

Does this mean I won the thread?!

I would like to thank my parents for always believing in me and thank the guy who is scared of insulin release and who won't eat in the evening due for fear of fat gain for giving me the opportunity to make this work.
 
You can accept it as some type of win, sure! But still I dont know, at least for me, which macro my body handles better in excess
 
Well I am the OP, still here, still reading...

...eyes still spinning and confused as ever. The only real take away and definitive answer I have accepted is "there is no spoon"

Ignore what sheepdog has said as he has demonstrated multiple times that he is very misguided and can't extrapolate data well. He is an example of what some call the Wikipedia effect: they get a fraction of the data yet feel as though they have a better grasp than they really do.
 
Follow my log in the supplement log section.
Still losing and going strong.

I was kidding :)

Nowhere in my first post did i state you'd get fatter eating carbs at before bed lol. So I believed you :D

Bens just causing trouble haha
 
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