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Diesel test hardcore vs. Test1fy

NewAgeMayan said:
Test Booster Simulators?
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Haha. "Product with ingredients that increase testosterone levels, although not to high enough levels to provide benefits of supraphysiological testosterone. However, the ingredients still do provide the benefits associated with elevated testosterone, but they do it in other ways not related to testosterone."
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Test Booster Simulators?
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That doesn't market as well as "Diesel test hardcore aka grande bolas" though ?.

I bet if presented with any other name no one would buy them. Not that it makes it right to call it that if it didn't boost test, but like what was just said about them not boosting then by enough to provide some kind of super crazy effect they still do something and provide benefits.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Haha. "Product with ingredients that increase testosterone levels, although not to high enough levels to provide benefits of supraphysiological testosterone. However, the ingredients still do provide the benefits associated with elevated testosterone, but they do it in other ways not related to testosterone."
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That's in size 1 font to fit right?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
No, all "Products formerly known as test boosters" will now come in tubs normally used for 5lbs of whey, that way all of the semantics and technicalities can be clearly explained.
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Excellent. U can issue a large legal statement in the package on paper as well, explaining everything again in excruciating detail. Lots of definitions and crazy vauge jargon like "Test boosters refers to any product which may or may not include but is not limited to...". Shouldn't take more than 12 pages in my estimation.

Have you seen the back of Diesel test? It's hysterical, it's got something along the lines of "if you experience labido or aggression that is too strong please discontinue this product" which like is a sales statement and they know it. I want labido and aggression that is way too strong, hell yes!! And it also has a crap load of instructions. I feel like they might benefit from this new volume size tub you've come up with!
 
I'm actually amazed that this "controversy" is still going on. I thought it was pretty settled on what *any* natural ingredient in a "Test Booster" (including Adaptogens) will do?

I'd say it's probably the second most popular category, right after PrWOuts, so I can understand the vigorous defen$e by some. I also understand the skepticism by others, but saying that they are "useless" is a bit of a stretch (and that's coming from me!).

What benefit is a "Test Booster" to a healthy 19 year old? Exactly, zero - 19 year olds are horny and full of piss and vinegar because of high Total T, Free T, and DHT - so if you too are naturally in the same boat, "Boosters" aren't that useful. But I think we can all agree that if you are the opposite of a 19 year old, there may be *some* benefit, depending on your natural Test Levels.

You at 295ng/dl? Then going to 495ng/dl (the pretty much agreed upon? possible max elevation these ingredients have been shown to give via blood work when that low to start) - can, guess what? - actually maybe make you feel better than before, maybe put some lead in your pencil, and maybe shed a little bit more fat than you normally could have. Now, you will pay $40-$80/Month for that.

You at 500ng/dl (or above)? **picking arbitrary numbers here** Then the benefits are dwindling - maybe libido, since you can modify that irrespective of hormones, and fat loss has been shown to be linear/dose dependent with T, so you still get that (*how much more, can be argued*).

I think the co-mingling of Adaptogens with Test Boosting ingredients is obviously smart from a marketing standpoint, as they have better data on them then sh^t like Fadogia, et al. But it's a little bit, I don't even know the word I'd use. Adaptogens are way more proven than, lets call them "natural hormonal modifying ingredients" - so including them tends to lend more credibility to all the other "less proven" ingredients in the bottle. Something like: "Look, Rhodiola increased strength...we have Rhodiola in our Test Booster... therefore Test Boosters increase strength!" Psssst - just get a bottle of Jarrow for $6/Month :D

All due respect to my friend MUC, but I'm pretty confident *a lot* of us are taking Rhodiola and Ashwaghanda.... I haven't seen a 45kg increase on my lifts, have any of you? I didn't notice any strength increases to speak of actually (or any that made me go "holy crap! what did that all of a sudden!?") I think that's a good example of putting studies into context, and maybe waiting for 2 or 3 more to replicate?

Old? Low T? A Test Booster may help in a few areas. Got levels like a 19 year old? Won't do much - if your after better recovery due to stress "adaptation", buy single ingredients. That's my take anyway.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I'm actually amazed that this "controversy" is still going on. I thought it was pretty settled on what *any* natural ingredient in a "Test Booster" (including Adaptogens) will do?

I'd say it's probably the second most popular category, right after PrWOuts, so I can understand the vigorous defen$e by some. I also understand the skepticism by others, but saying that they are "useless" is a bit of a stretch (and that's coming from me!).

What benefit is a "Test Booster" to a healthy 19 year old? Exactly, zero - 19 year olds are horny and full of piss and vinegar because of high Total T, Free T, and DHT - so if you too are naturally in the same boat, "Boosters" aren't that useful. But I think we can all agree that if you are the opposite of a 19 year old, there may be *some* benefit, depending on your natural Test Levels.

You at 295ng/dl? Then going to 495ng/dl (the pretty much agreed upon? possible max elevation these ingredients have been shown to give via blood work when that low to start) - can, guess what? - actually maybe make you feel better than before, maybe put some lead in your pencil, and maybe shed a little bit more fat than you normally could have. Now, you will pay $40-$80/Month for that.

You at 500ng/dl (or above)? **picking arbitrary numbers here** Then the benefits are dwindling - maybe libido, since you can modify that irrespective of hormones, and fat loss has been shown to be linear/dose dependent with T, so you still get that (*how much more, can be argued*).

I think the co-mingling of Adaptogens with Test Boosting ingredients is obviously smart from a marketing standpoint, as they have better data on them then sh^t like Fadogia, et al. But it's a little bit, I don't even know the word I'd use. Adaptogens are way more proven than, lets call them "natural hormonal modifying ingredients" - so including them tends to lend more credibility to all the other "less proven" ingredients in the bottle. Something like: "Look, Rhodiola increased strength...we have Rhodiola in our Test Booster... therefore Test Boosters increase strength!" Psssst - just get a bottle of Jarrow for $6/Month :D

All due respect to my friend MUC, but I'm pretty confident *a lot* of us are taking Rhodiola and Ashwaghanda.... I haven't seen a 45kg increase on my lifts, have any of you? I didn't notice any strength increases to speak of actually (or any that made me go "holy crap! what did that all of a sudden!?") I think that's a good example of putting studies into context, and maybe waiting for 2 or 3 more to replicate?

Old? Low T? A Test Booster may help in a few areas. Got levels like a 19 year old? Won't do much - if your after better recovery due to stress "adaptation", buy single ingredients. That's my take anyway.
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A lot of us on the forums are probably taking ashwagandha and rhodiola (I have both right now, haha), but it's easy to forget that we, educated/knowledgeable supplements users who are active on forums, are a very small minority of supplement users. Many of us may be using ashwagandha, but how many people that shop at local stores and don't use forums are using ashwagandha (and at an effective dose)? We haven't seen a 45kg increase, but, like you said in another thread, most of us are already repping their post-intervention 1-RM, so we can't expect the same gains, but we can be more confident that it actually does something. We're also all mostly using at least a few other supplements, unlike subjects in studies, so we can't assume that all of our supplements are additive. If a study on ingredient A showed +5lbs on bench, B showed +10, and C showed +15 in 10 weeks, I can't take A+B+C and assume I'll gain 30lbs on bench. Either way, I love me some ashwagandha. Let's stop beating this dead horse, haha.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
We're going in circles my friend. My entire point is that NO natural ingredient is going to increase test levels enough to provide the benefits of supraphysiological T-levels. Therefore, the only way a Test booster is going to "work," and by work I mean provide benefits that people look for when they think increased T (mood, libido, strength, muscle, etc), is by including ingredients that accomplish these goals via other means and MoAs. Go look at pretty much all the well-respected and reviewed products here (AlphaMax XT, Testify, M-Test, Diesel, etc), they have adaptogens, things like ashwagandha and tongkat ali, etc because they are effective in providing the benefits that people look for and desire when they buy a test booster.

At the end of the day, I think we're arguing over semantics. Am I correct in assuming that you aren't saying that some or those products are "useless" or "bunk," you just think they should be called something different than "test boosters?"
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Again, I think we're converging. Of course they're far from useless! I'd be a hypocrite if I said they were coz I regularly purchase these myself. My top single sup has to be Ash. I just cant stand the "product placement" and marketing nonsense that gets put out. I'm looking at a bottle of M-Test that arrived yesterday and glaring at the label "Hardcore Testosterone Booster"! and this by a reputable company. You get my drift!
 
ucheoma said:
Again, I think we're converging. Of course they're far from useless! I'd be a hypocrite if I said they were coz I regularly purchase these myself. My top single sup has to be Ash. I just cant stand the "product placement" and marketing nonsense that gets put out. I'm looking at a bottle of M-Test that arrived yesterday and glaring at the label "Hardcore Testosterone Booster"! and this by a reputable company. You get my drift!
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Psshh.. that's nothing. Personally, I don't care if companies use words like "extreme" or "hardcore" or whatever because it has no depth. It's just using subjective words as part of marketing, and technically, it's not necessarily wrong. Let's say CEL markets their test booster as "hardcore." Then the feedback comes back and users think it's a top 3 natural test booster on the market. Well if it beats out all that competition then that's pretty "hardcore." And that's the beauty of using marketable ambiguous words with supplements!

My biggest problem with supplements is when they cite specific cases of false results. Whether it's a specific person who added a hundred pounds to their lifts or gained 20lbs of muscle because of their supplement. These are just flat out lies and bother me the most. But using words like "hardcore?" That's nothing in this industry.
 
It's because of the special movies that ^^^^ watches, participates in, and makes
 
Diesel Test products are unreal IMO. I have used them on and off for years. I sometimes forget about them due to not having a huge presence here at AM but whenever I go back to them I am always impressed.
 
zendog said:
Diesel Test products are unreal IMO. I have used them on and off for years. I sometimes forget about them due to not having a huge presence here at AM but whenever I go back to them I am always impressed.
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Vague, sweeping statement. What do you mean unreal. Any tangible metrics or do we just go by yet more hyperbole?
 
I used the double or nothing stack and one of the DTH's in a couple of my PCT's over the years (I have done many cycles over the past ten or so years ). I have memories of them being easy PCT's with high levels of training intensity and a really strong "alpha male" feeling. I also had to Google "tangible metrics" and "hyperbole".
 
Diesel products are great, big stinky horse pills. Def a feel good product, I've enjoyed every run I've had with them. Test boost? Who knows, but Ive enjoyed a more positive mood, heightened libido, mo plump nuts, and muscle fullness while using them - a winner in my book in the "test booster" market.
 
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