Dienolone TD crazy weight gain?!

[K_pem]

Hey guys, so I started a cycle of TD dienolone about 4 weeks or so ago. I started at 75mg/day and have worked my way up to about 120-150mg/day (the product doesn’t look fully suspended/dissolved in the carrier so im not convinced on the dosage being exact) without much of any sides except some slight lethargy maybe, which I can combat with 4 andro if it gets out of control.

Anyways, the point of this post. I’m up 20lbs in a matter of 4 weeks. I’ve been eating about maintenance and haven’t noticed any remarkable fat loss or really any remarkable muscle gain, so I’m not sure where that weight is going but the scale doesn’t lie. Started at 185-187 ish and am now fluctuating between 204-207.

Anyone experienced this? Am I just holding a ton of water? No way this is 20lbs of just glycogen weight

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

the stuff is legit, especially at those doses.. a little water weight, but totally carb dependent. highly anabolic so you probably put a bit of muscle on, all over.

 

[jrock645]

Yeah ive heard dien can be a bit wet but i wouldnt have expected that. Ive got some inj dien(along with mast/var) to finish my cut off with. Looking forward to seeing how it does.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah ive heard dien can be a bit wet but i wouldnt have expected that. Ive got some inj dien(along with mast/var) to finish my cut off with. Looking forward to seeing how it does.

On 400 dien e (with 200 test e) atm, a month in, trying to cut but maybe lost 1lb. I am noticeably leaner in the belly and muscle and strength has been slowly climbing so it is recomping me despite best efforts to actually drop weight. And I am being serious with diet and doing 6 hours of LISS a week & 5 separate lifting sessions.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Ive always heard the injectable version was more like nandrolone. from what you are saying it seems you might agree?

 

[K_pem]

Im definitely not trying hard to lose weight or cut ultra hard. I was just hoping to lean up a little before our honeymoon to Jamaica. But the 20lbs and steadily climbing has me thinking I might be a little wetter than I think and maybe I should drop the down a week or so before we leave and switch to Osta or something light to tighten up

 

[Hyde]

Ive always heard the injectable version was more like nandrolone. from what you are saying it seems you might agree?

Never used it, but I have to say I love it. No sides, besides the smallest amount of bacne (which I get from all hormones).

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Im definitely not trying hard to lose weight or cut ultra hard. I was just hoping to lean up a little before our honeymoon to Jamaica. But the 20lbs and steadily climbing has me thinking I might be a little wetter than I think and maybe I should drop the down a week or so before we leave and switch to Osta or something light to tighten up

naw... just lower the dose to 75 and under, kick up your cardio, drop some carbs. you will lean right out on this stuff if you really want to.. also did you try to heat up the product to help it go back into solution?

 

[K_pem]

Yeah hot water bathed it and it actually warped the bottles but didn’t really bring it back into suspension. I think I might add the osta still and drop the dose a bit

 

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[trumac]

I think I remember leaning out on dien. Gained weight overall tho

 

[UNX]

Some of the weight is water and glycogen, I got a quick weight lose on the first PCT week. But dienolone is a great roid, I love the look it gives. Sadly there's no oil version in Europe, I would try it before tren ace.

 

[K_pem]

I definitely assumed some water and glycogen weight of course. But at nearly 25lbs up now, post thanksgiving, in like 4-5weeks, with a less than ideal gym attendance; im just wondering where the hell that weight is going lol. Surely I can’t be gaining body fat eating at or slightly above maintenance. I feel fairly watery though, my guess is I have some more water retention than other users

 

[K_pem]

Side note, do y’all think I should drop the dien a week prior to departure for Jamaica or run it up to a couple days prior? I want to give adequate time to dump any excess water prior to being down there. Starting tomorrow im going to get more aggressive on my caloric restriction taking mainly from carbs that are not peri workout. Maybe bring total calories down to about 2000. Thinking of resuming my IF schedule and possibly adding in some t2 or a thermo with it/ephedrine to help out. I just want to lean up a bit before leaving but with only 3 weeks left, I would think it’d be counter productive to drop my dose much considering dien is supposed to have a slight thermogenic effect and I would assume some nutrient partitioning geared more toward muscle growth with what calories I do put in.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

no don't drop it.
do the things you mentioned and keep the dose @ or just under 75mgs per day.

 

[K_pem]

Problem is I don’t know that I trust the mg/ml dose of this with all the product floating around in the solution. I’ve been drawing up 1ml 2x daily which should be 150mg. I’m going to dial back to .75ml 2x daily and that should be enough to notice a difference.

 

[Hyde]

Problem is I don’t know that I trust the mg/ml dose of this with all the product floating around in the solution. I’ve been drawing up 1ml 2x daily which should be 150mg. I’m going to dial back to .75ml 2x daily and that should be enough to notice a difference.

It’s not really about exact acute dosing, so don’t sweat that. Say your morning dose had 80% of what was supposed to be per ml, while evening had 120%. That’s fine. Over the life of the bottle at the amount of ml you choose to apply, it will average out sufficiently. A lot like calories, look at the big picture like a week at a time, ultimately.

 

[K_pem]

Oh for sure. But what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily think that it is as advertised mg/ml, so I can’t equate to an exact dosage based on ml that I’m applying. Today I was 203lbs fully clothed. Big difference from the 210lbs or so I was weighing in at a day or two ago with just shorts. I’m hoping it’s just a water thing and I continue to drop some weight to a reasonable amount with the decreased dosage and addition of ephedrine/caloric deficit.

 

[trumac]

Oh for sure. But what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily think that it is as advertised mg/ml, so I can’t equate to an exact dosage based on ml that I’m applying. Today I was 203lbs fully clothed. Big difference from the 210lbs or so I was weighing in at a day or two ago with just shorts. I’m hoping it’s just a water thing and I continue to drop some weight to a reasonable amount with the decreased dosage and addition of ephedrine/caloric deficit.

Who cares about the scale number? How do you look?

 

[K_pem]

Idc about the scale number the question was about where this weight could have went. As I mention I don’t look that much different and don’t see where 20+ lbs is distributed in either fat or muscle. I’m about the same level of leanness as I was but maybe slightly more watery, I notoriously hold onto water though. A weekend of drinking and eating out blows me up like crazy.

I was hoping to see some drastic effects of this compound but so far the scale has moved up
Consistently and I don’t see the relation to it.

 

[trumac]

Idc about the scale number the question was about where this weight could have went. As I mention I don’t look that much different and don’t see where 20+ lbs is distributed in either fat or muscle. I’m about the same level of leanness as I was but maybe slightly more watery, I notoriously hold onto water though. A weekend of drinking and eating out blows me up like crazy.

I was hoping to see some drastic effects of this compound but so far the scale has moved up
Consistently and I don’t see the relation to it.

Understood. If you hold water normally maybe you could go super low carb for a bit and see how that does

 

[K_pem]

Yeah that’s what I started today. Basically eliminated carbs outside of my peri workout window. I will have some residual here and there and a “refeed” if I feel it’s necessary. Trying to keep protein around 225 and fat around 80 ish, leaving carbs at about 100-150 depending on calories at 2000-2200

 

[jtbull]

If i recall this is the one that some say if you cant tolerate tren to give a try to. ANyone hear that and OP a couple guys i knew ( they are all on gear) have used the injectable version and a couple were wondering the same. No noticible fat gain or loss. How is you strength?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

wh

Oh for sure. But what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily think that it is as advertised mg/ml, so I can’t equate to an exact dosage based on ml that I’m applying. Today I was 203lbs fully clothed. Big difference from the 210lbs or so I was weighing in at a day or two ago with just shorts. I’m hoping it’s just a water thing and I continue to drop some weight to a reasonable amount with the decreased dosage and addition of ephedrine/caloric deficit.

what brand are you running?

 

[trumac]

If i recall this is the one that some say if you cant tolerate tren to give a try to. ANyone hear that and OP a couple guys i knew ( they are all on gear) have used the injectable version and a couple were wondering the same. No noticible fat gain or loss. How is you strength?

I’ve only tried tren from one source and it just makes me nauseous. I have tried TD dien and really enjoyed it. It does seem like diet tren. But then again I haven’t tried it IM yet and I’m not positive that I don’t just have bad gear from that lab

 

[K_pem]

Strength is up but I wouldn’t say crazy noticeable. I’m currently following a programmed strength plan and I have had zero issue sticking to the numbers prescribed. I might actually bump up a bit but I’ve had bad experience in the past throwing on too much weight while strength seemed up.

This is synergy TD dien

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

i recommend you run some APEX or PRE on the next run

 

[Hyde]

Strength is up but I wouldn’t say crazy noticeable. I’m currently following a programmed strength plan and I have had zero issue sticking to the numbers prescribed. I might actually bump up a bit but I’ve had bad experience in the past throwing on too much weight while strength seemed up.

This is synergy TD dien

No! Don’t slap extra weight on! That’s how you display/test strength, NOT how you build it. Trust the process. You need to train with weights you can handle well if you want to raise your peak limits.

If you add extra weight now, it will cost more fatigue. That will impact down the line, meaning you will run out of road sooner than if you were able to just stay the course because you were still feeling good.

 

[K_pem]

I think I misconstrued what im getting at.

The program I started was pre-dien. Therefore my numbers and percentages are all based on those previous 1rm and estimated percentages of such. Therefore I might not be training at a true 80% of current 1rm (or whatever percentage is prescribed for that day/lift).

Also another factor to consider is that I was previously running through each lift with each set/rep range at a given percentage twice, prior to bumping up the sets/reps to the next tier. However, now that I’m recovering better/faster and have the added strength feel, what I’m really saying is I am toying with the idea of progressing faster in the total volume whilst still on. Not necessarily just tossing weight on arbitrarily.

Regardless, I feel good now and will likely just stick to the original plan unless something changes and it becomes far too easy. As I said I’ve had bad experiences tossing on too much too fast in the past and winding up injured as a result. I was just thinking out loud here.

 

[K_pem]

BTW weight is back to hovering around 203ish post turkey day and with some better carb control. Im also looking intermittently leaner depending on the time of day. I still don’t see where 15+ lbs is hiding though. Haha

 

[trumac]

I think I misconstrued what im getting at.

The program I started was pre-dien. Therefore my numbers and percentages are all based on those previous 1rm and estimated percentages of such. Therefore I might not be training at a true 80% of current 1rm (or whatever percentage is prescribed for that day/lift).

Also another factor to consider is that I was previously running through each lift with each set/rep range at a given percentage twice, prior to bumping up the sets/reps to the next tier. However, now that I’m recovering better/faster and have the added strength feel, what I’m really saying is I am toying with the idea of progressing faster in the total volume whilst still on. Not necessarily just tossing weight on arbitrarily.

Regardless, I feel good now and will likely just stick to the original plan unless something changes and it becomes far too easy. As I said I’ve had bad experiences tossing on too much too fast in the past and winding up injured as a result. I was just thinking out loud here.

You’re a big boy and experienced. I 100% believe you could toss some extra weight on the bar right now. But I have done the same thing with the same results. Injury. You know your body and what you can handle so I’m not trying to tell you how to train. Just saying we have all been there and done it at some point

 

[BCseacow83]

You’re a big boy and experienced. I 100% believe you could toss some extra weight on the bar right now. But I have done the same thing with the same results. Injury. You know your body and what you can handle so I’m not trying to tell you how to train. Just saying we have all been there and done it at some point

I ALWAYS push the reps up vs the weight now. That is not to say never increase the weights but say I was shooting for 8 reps. I get 8 this week. I wait until I can get 12-15-20 sometimes before I go "ok," lets up the weight. This is SO IMPORTANT IMO on cycle as it is so easy to get hurt. Tendons and ligaments take far longer to strengthen.

I hold water like a damn on dien. Dropped it after a week and will save it for the gaining phase. Switched to 11-keto and look better in 2 days. All apex alchemy at this point.

 

[Hyde]

I think I misconstrued what im getting at.

The program I started was pre-dien. Therefore my numbers and percentages are all based on those previous 1rm and estimated percentages of such. Therefore I might not be training at a true 80% of current 1rm (or whatever percentage is prescribed for that day/lift).

Also another factor to consider is that I was previously running through each lift with each set/rep range at a given percentage twice, prior to bumping up the sets/reps to the next tier. However, now that I’m recovering better/faster and have the added strength feel, what I’m really saying is I am toying with the idea of progressing faster in the total volume whilst still on. Not necessarily just tossing weight on arbitrarily.

Regardless, I feel good now and will likely just stick to the original plan unless something changes and it becomes far too easy. As I said I’ve had bad experiences tossing on too much too fast in the past and winding up injured as a result. I was just thinking out loud here.

Nope, that is 100% what I understood it as. And what I am saying is over the scope of the next 2 years, you will actually get stronger by lifting within your means and just getting stronger via volume and better skill with the lift. As in, you can just tell your every day max is now 435, yet you continue to base the program off 385 like 6 months ago and just keep doing the work. It’s obviously working, because that training in combination with the drugs and diet moved your real max up from 385 to 435! So if it’s working, keep doing it!

This is why stuff like 5/3/1 is so effective for so many folks over a multi-year training plan. It’s very slow progression in bar weight but allows for auto regulation in volume to drive progress as it comes, which is rarely linear.

You’re a big boy and experienced. I 100% believe you could toss some extra weight on the bar right now. But I have done the same thing with the same results. Injury. You know your body and what you can handle so I’m not trying to tell you how to train. Just saying we have all been there and done it at some point

Right. Just because you can do it, doesn’t mean that you should, or that you need to in order to get stronger or bigger.

It’s a personal decision at the end of the day, I just wanted to say my piece after learning the hard way & realizing that hard consistent training is much more effective than maximal training done inconsistently due to injury.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

my blood pressure skyrockets too on deinolone when I dose more than 75 per day.

 

[K_pem]

BC: I do something similar where I add reps first at a prescribed percentage then add sets then lastly add percentage. And I apparently do too, dropped dose slightly and added some carb restriction and I’m down over 10lbs from thanksgiving day. Starting to look better too.

Hyde: I appreciate what you’re saying and I am learning the hard way as well but don’t want to make the same mistakes again, as I said before. I don’t want you to feel like your advise is falling on deaf ears, I hear ya man. I’m also a big believer in higher volume whilst on and higher weight during PCT to hold mass made on cycle.

 

[K_pem]

I was also extremely conservative with my estimated 1RM though prior to the program. But like I said, if anything I will advance my sets/reps tiers by either jumping up a tier or adding a tier. To give an idea: I estimated my 1RM bench at 350 ish but subtracted ten pounds for safe measure. So I calculated my prescribed percentage on that and the 275x3x3 that I started with has progressed to 275x4x4 and is now 290x3x3, but I feel like I could do 4x4 no problem, so It’s a battle of should I add to those reps prematurely so that I can go to maybe 4x5 or 5x5 ect.

Eventually making it to the point where I bump to another 5% so... 305ish. If that makes sense