Dienolone and desoxytest

fueledpassion said:
Both, in IM version.

If you can keep BP down with Ace Inhibitors, Cialis, Garlic, etc, about 150-200mg/day of Dienolone is absurdly awesome for strength, mass, fat burning, pumps...just about everything. I got shin splints and skin tearing calf pumps from just walking down the street at those doses.

I'm thinkin my next recomp cycle is a 4 week blast of Dien @ those doses.

Also, for whatever reason, Dienolone increases my testicle size by at least 25%. Have no idea why but an FDA study found the same results. It acts similar to estrogen in some ways but is somehow also extremely anabolic.
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You have a link to that study? Thanks for the feedback.
 
What kind of dosages have you guys gone for with IM dienolone acetate?
 
Desoxy-test upregulates the ER receptors, so it's been greatly recommended not to run it with trest. If anyone still wants to do it, be ready with your gyno defense.

And if you've already had gyno, good luck to you with that combo.
 
Running trest starting in February... Not desoxy t though. I've already had gyno so I'm planning on being 100% on top of it for this
 
Gutterpump said:
Yep, same but likely in March. Will be using daily exemestane + nolva.
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I'll be hitting the raloxifene with exem. Never used ralox before but I always have nipple problems on cycle and I'm tired of it.
 
Gutterpump said:
Desoxy-test upregulates the ER receptors, so it's been greatly recommended not to run it with trest. If anyone still wants to do it, be ready with your gyno defense.

And if you've already had gyno, good luck to you with that combo.
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Where'd you read that?
 
BamBam0319 said:
I'll be hitting the raloxifene with exem. Never used ralox before but I always have nipple problems on cycle and I'm tired of it.
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Ralox is nice. I've got myself pharma grade nolva I'm going to use up but ralox would be my choice too. Trest ace gave me that nipple itch on 3rd day last time I ran it. Don't want to mess around when taking IM trest. It's really overkill to stack anything with it, but I'll def be running mast alongside.
 
Gutterpump said:
Almost every log from advanced users

You can also check out the sub-forum over at PHF. Lots of info there
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So it's entirely anecdotal?

I frequent phf, never seen that mentioned about desoxy testosterone or androstenone

Could be wrong, but I don't see how it could do this. Maybe progestin receptor activation.

It's possible it inhibits 11b hsd in the kidneys an this leads to water retention possibly confusing others of estrogen related sides when that's just caused from normal hormonal disruption from non aromatizable steroids.
 
jbryand101b said:
So it's entirely anecdotal?

I frequent phf, never seen that mentioned about desoxy testosterone or androstenone

Could be wrong, but I don't see how it could do this. Maybe progestin receptor activation.

It's possible it inhibits 11b hsd in the kidneys an this leads to water retention possibly confusing others of estrogen related sides when that's just caused from normal hormonal disruption from non aromatizable steroids.
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Do your research. Nearly everyone using it has noticed the estrogen sensitivity including myself. Pplex does the exact same thing without actually raising estrogen. I'm pretty surprised you've never heard of this but hey we're all responsible for our own research.

I've used it several times, and needed to increase my AI usage on it. Several others logs here and all over the place have noticed estrogen management to be very difficult on it while taking aromatizing steroids alongside. I think The Solution (or maybe it was someone else on this board) noticed that estrogen because very difficult to manage when it was added in mid-trest cycle, and strongly recommended against it. I know you got gyno in the past from not taking the proper precautions with tren, so I'm just giving a warning, take it as you wish.
 
Gutterpump said:
Do your research. Nearly everyone using it has noticed the estrogen sensitivity including myself. Pplex does the exact same thing without actually raising estrogen. I'm pretty surprised you've never heard of this but hey we're all responsible for our own research.

I've used it several times, and needed to increase my AI usage on it. Several others logs here and all over the place have noticed estrogen management to be very difficult on it while taking aromatizing steroids alongside. I think The Solution (or maybe it was someone else on this board) noticed that estrogen because very difficult to manage when it was added in mid-trest cycle, and strongly recommended against it. I know you got gyno in the past from not taking the proper precautions with tren, so I'm just giving a warning, take it as you wish.
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Damn I would never add dienolone to trest lol...the estro sides on trest are already real enough.
 
SweetLou321 said:
You have a link to that study? Thanks for the feedback.
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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/98883-dienolone-boldione-testing.html

Right here on AM...

The study suggests that Dienolone is stronger than Boldione (go figure), will cause similar increases in the prostate as it does for muscle growth, and converts to estrogen readily. It also discusses the testicular weight increases of the rats and I personally have witnessed this same effect on myself.

So basically, use an AI while cycling it and maybe RAD140 to reduce prostate enlargement as well.
 
Gutterpump said:
Do your research. Nearly everyone using it has noticed the estrogen sensitivity including myself. Pplex does the exact same thing without actually raising estrogen. I'm pretty surprised you've never heard of this but hey we're all responsible for our own research.

I've used it several times, and needed to increase my AI usage on it. Several others logs here and all over the place have noticed estrogen management to be very difficult on it while taking aromatizing steroids alongside. I think The Solution (or maybe it was someone else on this board) noticed that estrogen because very difficult to manage when it was added in mid-trest cycle, and strongly recommended against it. I know you got gyno in the past from not taking the proper precautions with tren, so I'm just giving a warning, take it as you wish.
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There is zero data based evidence on delta-2-androstenol (desoxytest) up regulating the estrogen receptors.

It could be possible to cause water retaining sides from 11b-hsd inhibition in the kidneys, but again, no data specifically on desoxytest, just based off its chemical structure.

Data on dst does show it to be around 50%-60% less androgenic than dht, (and 150% more anabolic) so it most likely doesn't have the ani estrogenic effect some other dht derived steroids have.

I have a permanent lump that I've had since 08, some compounds make it worse (dienedione, epistane, trenbolone) other compounds make it almost disappear, (superdrol, hdrol, tbol, boldenone).

I appreciate the concern about trenbolone flaring up pre existing gyno, but this wasn't due to lack of research, it was from using a compound plainly to see how I react to it.
More gains, more sides, first rule of thumb with steroids.

I've taken trenadione as high as 120mg, with no issues, but had issues with 100mg of dienedione, so it was logical to test out trenbolone to see how I'd react.

I know how to take care of gyno flare ups post cycle for myself, so it's more a nuisance that anything. The tiny lump of tissue will only be removed with surgery.

But I'll be running everything without an ai for as long as possible.

When I beta tested mentabolan for Ba at phf, I responded well with zero estrogen related sides.

He also may send me some his new ai to test as well for this cycle
 
But it's definitely noted, so I'll keep an eye on it and make my anecdotal feed back on it an note this possible side effect in my log :thumbsup:
 
jbryand101b said:
There is zero data based evidence on delta-2-androstenol (desoxytest) up regulating the estrogen receptors.

It could be possible to cause water retaining sides from 11b-hsd inhibition in the kidneys, but again, no data specifically on desoxytest, just based off its chemical structure.

Data on dst does show it to be around 50%-60% less androgenic than dht, (and 150% more anabolic) so it most likely doesn't have the ani estrogenic effect some other dht derived steroids have.

I have a permanent lump that I've had since 08, some compounds make it worse (dienedione, epistane, trenbolone) other compounds make it almost disappear, (superdrol, hdrol, tbol, boldenone).

I appreciate the concern about trenbolone flaring up pre existing gyno, but this wasn't due to lack of research, it was from using a compound plainly to see how I react to it.
More gains, more sides, first rule of thumb with steroids.

I've taken trenadione as high as 120mg, with no issues, but had issues with 100mg of dienedione, so it was logical to test out trenbolone to see how I'd react.

I know how to take care of gyno flare ups post cycle for myself, so it's more a nuisance that anything. The tiny lump of tissue will only be removed with surgery.

But I'll be running everything without an ai for as long as possible.

When I beta tested mentabolan for Ba at phf, I responded well with zero estrogen related sides.

He also may send me some his new ai to test as well for this cycle
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So you hold off on an ai on each cycle as long as you can?
 
VWMeatHead said:
Damn I would never add dienolone to trest lol...the estro sides on trest are already real enough.
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Oh I was talking about Desoxy-test! Even on trest alone, I'll only use it with a suicidal AI (exemestane) and a serm now. Never ever ever arimidex on trest. Estrogen rebound risks are too great. Definitely need a suicidal AI to be safe.

Speaking of dienolone though, I'm actually on a high dose of dienolone now and am barely touching an AI. Didn't expect that!! Results are amazing from it though.
 
Rebound is the same regardless of the ai used ****

People disagree on this, one is based off part of the story *** the other off *the whole .

I'll say this, the more estrogen you have binding to the estrogen receptors, the htpa will sense this, an less chance of rebound by producing more aromatase to convert to estrogen.
 
I don't really care to debate AI's. I've used them all, and for many many years now.

Suicidal AI's are by far superior, stronger, and they are the only AI's that permanently disables aromatase.

When a non-suicidal inhibitor is used, the estrogen it's bound to will become enabled again once it wears off. This is not a concern whatsoever with a suicidal AI. I don't really think their actions are up for debate, this is simply how they work.

If you prefer to use a reversible AI (no idea why you would) then all the power to you.
 
Like I said, ai action how they work is only part of the story. You are forgetting about the htpa an negative feed back.

Also,

What suicidal ai is more potent that letrozole?

:smoker:
 
Letro is ****. Have fun with reversible AI's and crushed lipids :) I don't really care to discuss the HTPA on cycle either, it's shutdown, especially on something like trest. You think your HTPA is magically going to create estrogen out of nothing? If your body isn't producing test on cycle, you're not going to have any endogenous estrogen production. Only conversion from the compounds you're taking, and it's not like they'll convert more OR less based off a shutdown HTPA.

At this point, I honestly think you are confusing info about post-cycle AI usage.
 
Gutterpump said:
Letro is ****. Have fun with reversible AI's and crushed lipids :) I don't really care to discuss the HTPA on cycle either, it's shutdown, especially on something like trest. You think your HTPA is magically going to create estrogen out of nothing? If your body isn't producing test on cycle, you're not going to have any endogenous estrogen production. Only conversion from the compounds you're taking, and it's not like they'll convert more OR less based off a shutdown HTPA.

At this point, I honestly think you are confusing info about post-cycle AI usage.
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Then by your logic, there's no need for an ai at all on cycle of non aromatizable steroids.

20 weeks of 600mg deca per week for 20 weeks, an lh production is still going on.

Hpta suppression meaning lh production is reduced, not stopped unfortunately.

Androstenedione is still produced, and aromatase activity is still going on
For those interested in estrogen in males:
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At what sort of level? Lol... You're talking about minute amounts. And yeah on non-aromatizing compounds, I don't increase my AI unless I'm taking something like test alongside it, which I always do.

The original post was about taking trest with Desoxy-test and how I think a suicidal AI is optimal. Trest = more estrogen than anything you can possibly think of. Why the f*k would you mess around with a reversible AI on it is beyond me.
 
Gutterpump said:
Do your research. Nearly everyone using it has noticed the estrogen sensitivity including myself. Pplex does the exact same thing without actually raising estrogen. I'm pretty surprised you've never heard of this but hey we're all responsible for our own research.

I've used it several times, and needed to increase my AI usage on it. Several others logs here and all over the place have noticed estrogen management to be very difficult on it while taking aromatizing steroids alongside. I think The Solution (or maybe it was someone else on this board) noticed that estrogen because very difficult to manage when it was added in mid-trest cycle, and strongly recommended against it. I know you got gyno in the past from not taking the proper precautions with tren, so I'm just giving a warning, take it as you wish.
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While I am not taking sides nor am I stepping into this debate, I will vouch for the fact that Desoxy by itself = no estrogen sides while Desoxy with Trest, Test or Dienolone (I've done all three) = estrogen sides, particularly lumps forming in left nipple.
 
fueledpassion said:
While I am not taking sides nor am I stepping into this debate, I will vouch for the fact that Desoxy by itself = no estrogen sides while Desoxy with Trest, Test or Dienolone (I've done all three) = estrogen sides, particularly lumps forming in left nipple.
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I've experienced the exact same. I believe your log (which is gone now) was where I first heard of this too. Several users at PHF also noted the same.

I've had no issues with Dienolone alongside a TRT dose of test though. No need for much estrogen control or prolactin control, fwiw.

I've said all I'm going to say here now though. Not really gonna debate my experience with others anymore. They can learn for themselves if they don't want to take advice.
 
Gutterpump said:
I've experienced the exact same. I believe your log (which is gone now) was where I first heard of this too. Several users at PHF also noted the same.

I've had no issues with Dienolone alongside a TRT dose of test though. No need for much estrogen control or prolactin control, fwiw.

I've said all I'm going to say here now though. Not really gonna debate my experience with others anymore. They can learn for themselves if they don't want to take advice.
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I can't say I notice that much a difference from adex vs asin vs formestane. Other then it sucks when you over do the latter two bc you gotta wait a minute for your e2 levels to come back. I use minute doses anyways.
 
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