DHT reducing scalp shampoos

[drseuss6969]

Is there a concern topical shampoos meant to decrease dht in the scalp will decrease dht in the body?

 

[Vikingbro]

Good question and subbed for info. I've just bought some. Bro science would say that not enough would enter the blood stream from the scalp to make much difference but I would love to hear a definitive answer.

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Subbed for info

 

[drseuss6969]

Yeah I don't know if his is the right section, but some of the smart guys on her definetly know the answer.

From the sources I've seen, it should not, but they were not exactly scholarly.

 

[Lynks8]

While I don't have any studies or hard data to point to, the most potent anti-androgens you'll find in most of these shampoos would be ketoconazole (technically an anti-fungal, but has androgen agonist properties) and perhaps, saw palmetto. The concentration of the aforementioned substances in these shampoos is very small, and applying them topically, (for a few minutes before rinsing, no less), dramatically reduces their chance at having systemic impact.

I would say, rather confidently, that 99.9% of users will notice no detrimental reduction of DHT levels. There's always the chance that there's one outlier who's ridiculously sensitive to one or more of these ingredients, but I would be thoroughly blown away if anyone could actually produce evidence that shows a direct connection to the short-duration, topical application of small amounts of these ingredients and a systemic reduction of DHT.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

You can dig further on this if you want:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2702797

But like he ^ said, the effectiveness of the natty stuff in a shampoo is questionable as it is, much less just resting on your scalp for 3-5 minutes and rinsing off.

Comparison Of Finasteride (Proscar) And Serenoa Repens (Permixon) In The Inhibition Of 5-alpha Reductase In Healthy Male Volunteers

Effect None
Trial Design Double blind
Trial Length 1-7 Days
Number of Subjects 32
Gender Male
Age Range 18-29, 30-44

Notes for this study:
80mg of a lipidosterolic extract of saw palmetto (Permixon) taken twice daily for a total daily dose of 160mg over the course of a week failed to influence testosterone or DHT concentrations in otherwise healthy young men; finasteride as the reference drug was effective in acutely reducing and maintaining a reduction of DHT.

 

[ericool007]

no my firend there is no concern, there is more of a concern if these shampoos even decrease localized dht

 

[kenpoengineer]

Subbed for info but this is the one I use. Made a BIG difference for my hair lose:

 

[Vikingbro]

^thats the one I've just ordered

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I actually cover all bases - it's expensive initially, but these shampoos lather like a mofo, so you can use a "Dime" sized amount and get over 6-8 months use:

I bought Pura D'Or, Regenepure DR, Perfect Hair, and Lipogaine Big 3 shampoo. I mixed 2 ounces of each (using a measuring cup), stirred really well, and poured the mix back into an empty Pura D'Or pump bottle.

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

I actually cover all bases - it's expensive initially, but these shampoos lather like a mofo, so you can use a "Dime" sized amount and get over 6-8 months use:

I bought Pura D'Or, Regenepure DR, Perfect Hair, and Lipogaine Big 3 shampoo. I mixed 2 ounces of each (using a measuring cup), stirred really well, and poured the mix back into an empty Pura D'Or pump bottle.

So how long have you been doing it and if a while what are the results?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So how long have you been doing it and if a while what are the results?

Can't tell you a definite, because I also started Derma Rolling and Using Azaleac Acid/Minoxidil. But all those combined stopped the shedding and filled in the balding spot back to about 80%? And who knows, since I think high dose Omega-6 (ArA) was the cause, maybe just stopping that would have done the same thing? But I wasn't taking the chance

 

[210LBS]

Can't tell you a definite, because I also started Derma Rolling and Using Azaleac Acid/Minoxidil. But all those combined stopped the shedding and filled in the balding spot back to about 80%? And who knows, since I think high dose Omega-6 (ArA) was the cause, maybe just stopping that would have done the same thing? But I wasn't taking the chance

Damn you must have really freaked out when you started shedding because you threw everything and the kitchen sink at stopping that hairloss. It would have been nice to know which of those worked for you but since you did them all at once you kind of screwed us here.

 

[AdelV]

Yeah,

Some of these are expensive, im curious if there is cheaper versions? I'm just interested to use 2-3 times a week.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

...you kind of screwed us here.

Feel free to try one thing at a time and wait, when yours is falling out, LOL.

The only thing *Proven* to work is Minoxidil and or Latisse, so I'd start there and not worry too much about shampoos - they all basically have the same sh&t in them. Rollers are like $10 from China.

 

[210LBS]

Feel free to try one thing at a time and wait, when yours is falling out, LOL.

The only thing *Proven* to work is Minoxidil and or Latisse, so I'd start there and not worry too much about shampoos - they all basically have the same sh&t in them. Rollers are like $10 from China.

Haha I was just pulling your leg. I use minoxidil and I definitely think it works. It's the only thing I've been using for the last several years to prevent thinning.

 

[drejb]

What's the problem with low dose finasteride? Doc prescribed me 1mg every other day finasteride after a hair treatment. Also he has other patients Taking 5mg daily with 0 sides. There are also guys that take it with multiple compounds

 

[anabolix]

What's the problem with low dose finasteride? Doc prescribed me 1mg every other day finasteride after a hair treatment. Also he has other patients Taking 5mg daily with 0 sides. There are also guys that take it with multiple compounds

Do a search for post finasteride syndrome, and use at your own risk.

 

[rascal14]

While I don't have any studies or hard data to point to, the most potent anti-androgens you'll find in most of these shampoos would be ketoconazole (technically an anti-fungal, but has androgen agonist properties) and perhaps, saw palmetto. The concentration of the aforementioned substances in these shampoos is very small, and applying them topically, (for a few minutes before rinsing, no less), dramatically reduces their chance at having systemic impact.

I would say, rather confidently, that 99.9% of users will notice no detrimental reduction of DHT levels. There's always the chance that there's one outlier who's ridiculously sensitive to one or more of these ingredients, but I would be thoroughly blown away if anyone could actually produce evidence that shows a direct connection to the short-duration, topical application of small amounts of these ingredients and a systemic reduction of DHT.

I've been using Nizoral shampoo on my back for acne for the past month or more letting it sit for several minutes each day.. I've not noticed any side effects from it.

It also hasn't helped the acne, but still no side effects.

 

[Duywayne]

Nizoral 1% is OTC and a good option. If you can get 2% that is the preferred for what you are looking for. Its an anti-fungal primarily developed for flaking, however been shown to block DHT in the scalp.

 

[drejb]

Do a search for post finasteride syndrome, and use at your own risk.

All of those sides and syndromes are overblown and account for 1-2% of the users and a lot of the libido sides are mentally manipulated and don't actually. I know dozens of guys on fin that have 0 sides and still build a ton of muscle

 

[drejb]

IMO if you aren't worried about the sides of constantly cycling Andros and other compounds, and you're really worried about your hair. You shouldn't be worried about fin either. DHT has androgenic effects but 0 anabolic effects. It will not inhibit your ability to build muscle or effect body composition. The only thing DHT is responsible for is androgenic capabilities such as mood, libido, etc. I have countless friends on Fin for years and they actually say because of their increased test their sex drive is killer. Bringing DHT down 60% with finasteride is a non issue if you're that worried about your hair being gone. It's used by millions with no issues. Read some positive studies online. I agree with taking at risk but I also agree with cycling at risk. Everyone in here has solid opinions tho

Also one would argue prohormones have more documented sides than fin

 

[anabolix]

I'm a little more cautious since I've known some who've experienced the horrible sides that just won't go away. In researching this, Ive found that the 1-2% side effect rate isn't accurate. Its much higher. It doesn't happen to everyone, especially at first, but i would definitely take the risk into consideration..no one knows if they will be one of the unfortunate one's who end up with a limp weenie that wont go away.

 

[drejb]

I'm a little more cautious since I've known some who've experienced the horrible sides that just won't go away. In researching this, Ive found that the 1-2% side effect rate isn't accurate. Its much higher. It doesn't happen to everyone, especially at first, but i would definitely take the risk into consideration..no one knows if they will be one of the unfortunate one's who end up with a limp weenie that wont go away.

Someone that takes 5mg daily maybe. .5-1mg EOD chances of that happening are almost impossible. My doc says almost every one of his patients at his clinic take it for hair loss and he's never had 1 experience loss of function in his 15 years prescribing it.

 

[anabolix]

Someone that takes 5mg daily maybe. .5-1mg EOD chances of that happening are almost impossible. My doc says almost every one of his patients at his clinic take it for hair loss and he's never had 1 experience loss of function in his 15 years prescribing it.

My friend was taking .5-1mg a day for a few months, so never say never. There are actually alot of people who have ran into trouble taking that same low amount..everyone is different. Im not suprised your dr said that, but if you look around I think you'll find it happens alot more than you think. My friend never told his doctor either, and this happens frequently I've found, which also doesn't help when trying to count statistics for side effects. I also had issues from this stuff, so my experience doesn't coincide. If you look into it a bit, I think you'll be suprised at what you find. Everything has risks though..knowing them is whats important. That way we can choose to accept or deny them, as you have.

 

[drejb]

My friend was taking .5-1mg a day for a few months, so never say never. There are actually alot of people who have ran into trouble taking that same low amount..everyone is different. Im not suprised your dr said that, but if you look around I think you'll find it happens alot more than you think. My friend never told his doctor either, and this happens frequently I've found, which also doesn't help when trying to count statistics for side effects. I also had issues from this stuff, so my experience doesn't coincide. If you look into it a bit, I think you'll be suprised at what you find. Everything has risks though..knowing them is whats important. That way we can choose to accept or deny them, as you have.

Agreed the risks are there but are just more rare than most people think. Believe me I've debated and researched fin until I was drained from reading studies and articles, before I filled me prescription. Also spoke to fin using bodybuilders, and men of multiple ages.


Point is if you don't want to use fin, options are limited

You can use minoxidil, but there are side effects with minoxidil that are more common than sides with finasteride, and you have to apply twice a day for life, and it will not help with hairline, only crown.

You can use keto shampoo like Nizoral, but it is rare that this will be enough to help on any cycle, even as mild as Andros.

Or you can use the herbal based shampoo, it may work, but it's not proven to.


So what I'm saying is, if you want to halt hair loss. Finasteride is the only proven option. The other stuff may, but most likely will not work. If you're prone to MPB, finasteride is the only thing that's going to keep or regrow your hair indefinitely.

 

[slickwillie]

drejb speaks the truth. I have been on Propecia continuously since 1997, which was the year it was first available. Since then I have put on (and kept on) over 30 pounds of muscle, maintained more hair on my head than my brothers and my father, and without adversely affecting my sex life. Every drug or supplement carries some risk. It's all about the risk/reward ratio.

 

[210LBS]

There are risks with everything you take. Does anybody remember the study done on creatine that showed it increased DHT by a huge amount - like up to 55% or something? If true, then creatine could be a huge concern for hair loss. Just like supplements that can cause hair loss, supplements to prevent hair loss may also have sides. I haven't used Propecia yet, but I'm certainly not ruling it out for myself. I have read some negatives about it, but I've also read a ton of positive stuff on it. drejb seems to be on on a very low dose, so hopefully he keeps us posted on how it works for him.

 

[JPSwole]

I started using ru it's supposed to be like a topical finasterisde without side effects, I'm also using a Theradome laser helmet every 2 days and the same shampoo you're using Pur'dor just switched to a different one though can't remember the name but it's similar to Pur'dor just cheaper and also using seroxyl, so far so good I hope to grow a white man afro soon haha