DHT dedicated thread

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
A while ago a thread called

Baby face --> how to treat it with hormones?

Where someone basically asked how to make his face more masculine lead to a discussion about DHT.

Instead of hijacking other threads, this will be a DHT dedicated one, discussing:

-DHT based AAS (Masteron, Anavar, Winstrol, Stanolone)

-Endogenous DHT

-5AR (5-alpha reductase)

-Increasing conversion of exogenous Test into DHT by supplementing to increase 5AR

-Mental/ Physical effects experienced from the above.

-Androgenic effects
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
Bunshichi uprightrows
 

Bunshichi

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
So I actually was able to find some sketchy sources of stanolone.
Does anyone know how long the half life of stanolone is?

Also does anyone know a way to put an ester on a steroid that doesn't require too much chemical equipment?

I certainly want to obtain a longt DHT ester to harden up, reduce chances of gyno and get alpha male agression without chances for estrogen sides (well apart from the chance of estrogen beeing freed of shbg of course) and do that for a longer time than I would want to take methylated compounds.

However did someone run Mestanolone and The1 and can actually compare both?
Would be really interested in it as the oxime is said to be hydrolyzed in the stomach acid .
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
So I actually was able to find some sketchy sources of stanolone.
Does anyone know how long the half life of stanolone is?

Also does anyone know a way to put an ester on a steroid that doesn't require too much chemical equipment?

I certainly want to obtain a longt DHT ester to harden up, reduce chances of gyno and get alpha male agression without chances for estrogen sides (well apart from the chance of estrogen beeing freed of shbg of course) and do that for a longer time than I would want to take methylated compounds.

However did someone run Mestanolone and The1 and can actually compare both?
Would be really interested in it as the oxime is said to be hydrolyzed in the stomach acid .
Lol. I have also found a sketchy source for Stanolone powder.
Half life of pure Stanolone is supposedly 53min, but I`ve heard 40-60 min as well.

Esterification with Enanthic acid should be possible with equipment that can be purchase legally, I´ve seen instructions for this on Homebrewing AAS related sites.

IMO Stanolon Enanthate or Cypionate could make a very good cruising compound anywhere from 50-200 mg/ week
 
Pride89

Pride89

Member
Awards
0
I personally love being on DHT hormons/PH/DS

I just 2 weeks ago finished a short Cycle of transdermal Epiandro (alpha isomer)
This was my 2 time using alphadrone, i could have stayed on for months !

I Seem to be better focused in all i do, work, House improvements, gym, when on some kind of DHT

And ive tryed alot of Them

Oral Epi-andro (alpha and beta by Them self )and oral stano op to 1200mg ed)
PP androhard v2 and v3
dimethandrostenol
Transdermal epi-andro (both isomers by Them self)

And other DHT based compunds like
stenbolone
UG anavar (was disapointed so might have been bunk or very low dose)

I think of you wonna do a long androgen Cycle you could inject mast E and test E
Or as a weaker (alot weaker) and shorter Cycle, then 8weeks of DHT PH,
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
I personally love being on DHT hormons/PH/DS

I just 2 weeks ago finished a short Cycle of transdermal Epiandro (alpha isomer)
This was my 2 time using alphadrone, i could have stayed on for months !

I Seem to be better focused in all i do, work, House improvements, gym, when on some kind of DHT

And ive tryed alot of Them

Oral Epi-andro (alpha and beta by Them self )and oral stano op to 1200mg ed)
PP androhard v2 and v3
dimethandrostenol
Transdermal epi-andro (both isomers by Them self)

And other DHT based compunds like
stenbolone
UG anavar (was disapointed so might have been bunk or very low dose)

I think of you wonna do a long androgen Cycle you could inject mast E and test E
Or as a weaker (alot weaker) and shorter Cycle, then 8weeks of DHT PH,
I`ve had similar experiences with DHT steroids. High on life and supreme confidence but in a very stable way.
I believe that this is due to the effects of DHT on Dopamine.
Overall I´d go out on a limb and say that DHT is actually the main cause of positive mental effects related to Testosterone. Testosterone by itself does very little to nothing in terms of mental benefits -> look at Post Finasteride Syndrome, even if one has high T, if your 5AR is ****ed you won`t experience those positive mental effects.

For me DHT compounds are interesting exactly BECAUSE of their androgenic effects.

To sum up positive effects IMO:
- Confidence and wit / cognition
- Healthy level of aggression without mood swings
- Less/ no brain fog
- Feeling more energetic / stress resistant
- Facial hair growth
- Holding less water
- No need for AI or SERM, more stable estrogen levels
- Painfully strong erections (wakes me up several times during the night)
- Horny as F*** which in combination with the confidence and aggression makes for quite the womanizer

Negatives I´ve experienced -

- Too horny to get anything done, just thinking about sex and how to get it as much and as quick as possible, for days to such an extent that I couldn`t do any work and was close to seeking treatment for sex addiction.


Regarding Hair Loss and Prostate Cancer -

- I don`t believe DHT on its own causes either, but I`m not gonna go into detail unless someone needs me to elaborate.
 
fueledpassion

fueledpassion

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Let's not forget Primo. It, along with Masteron and EQ, are what I believe to be the best ones out there. Combine them all three and things are just incredibly unfair to the wife and co-workers (but in different ways).

And so people know, EQ is not a derivative but does have some of the same actions as good ole DHT - all the good stuff - hardness, strength, vascularity, etc when it comes to the body sculpting aspect of DHT's. Same can be said of DMZ but it is a derivative.
 

Bunshichi

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Let's not forget Primo. It, along with Masteron and EQ, are what I believe to be the best ones out there. Combine them all three and things are just incredibly unfair to the wife and co-workers (but in different ways).
Yeah I get it. Sex with the female coworkers and agression at home

Why Boldenone?
I mean its a nice steroid and all but its about DHT derivates isn't it?

Did you run Bold with Masteron without Test?
Would be very interested if you did.
 
fueledpassion

fueledpassion

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Yeah I get it. Sex with the female coworkers and agression at home

Why Boldenone?
I mean its a nice steroid and all but its about DHT derivates isn't it?

Did you run Bold with Masteron without Test?
Would be very interested if you did.
Why Bold? Because it converts less, doesn't ruin the sex drive. Helps the joints while you run the DHT derivatives and causes a massive increase in hardness and vascularity. I find that when you need something like Test, but you want the DHT stuff to do it's magic and get really hard/lean, Bold makes more sense over a longer ester Test.

I ran Bold by itself alone @ 250mg/wk and it felt normal, with elevated pumps and vascularity. I also had it with Test and Mast and was awesome in just about every way. I've also taken it with Tren alone. That was effective too.
 

uprightrows

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I am also a big fan of DHT derivatives and now include low doses of mast E in all of my cruises. Even when I am not super shredded it is more of a "quality of life" drug and I definitely feel it contributes to focused aggression in training as well as higher levels of mental satisfaction and alpha feeling in general as well as heightened levels of body proprioception and mind muscle connection. Also I feel like people who say you need to be under 10% body fat to see any benefits from mast or you need to be in contest shape are a little off base, when I'm at ~13% I can still see a noticeable difference in my physique once I add in mast. I'm lucky because my body does fine with low e2 and my joints don't ache, zero chance of getting mpb at this point, only thing I do worry about is my prostate in the future. Although apparently elevated levels of e2 are also implicated in the development of prostate cancer in concert with DHT levels so I don't know. I really need to try boldenone, it would be great to have a compound that adds a little anabolic boost to complement the androgenic effects of mast
 

Bunshichi

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I am also a big fan of DHT derivatives and now include low doses of mast E in all of my cruises. Even when I am not super shredded it is more of a "quality of life" drug and I definitely feel it contributes to focused aggression in training as well as higher levels of mental satisfaction and alpha feeling in general as well as heightened levels of body proprioception and mind muscle connection. Also I feel like people who say you need to be under 10% body fat to see any benefits from mast or you need to be in contest shape are a little off base, when I'm at ~13% I can still see a noticeable difference in my physique once I add in mast. I'm lucky because my body does fine with low e2 and my joints don't ache, zero chance of getting mpb at this point, only thing I do worry about is my prostate in the future. Although apparently elevated levels of e2 are also implicated in the development of prostate cancer in concert with DHT levels so I don't know. I really need to try boldenone, it would be great to have a compound that adds a little anabolic boost to complement the androgenic effects of mast
How much Mast E dp you use?

I want to run a Boldenone cycle with some feel good compound but I fear Test to make too much e2 trouble for me.
But I'm not sure if a achievable dose of Masterone would be enough to keep lethargy away completely and add focus and a little agression.
I do need something that makes me feel amazing this time. Last cycles oral only just hit me hard with lethargy but in my current life situation I can't handle that.

Would be willing to not run the Boldenone but I do wan't the endurance benefits.

Something really dry and antiestrogenic wich boosts endurace and does not build mass too fast with added focus and endurance that can be run for a longer time would be perfect.

I figure Boldenone with DHT ester would do this but I can't find the latter.

Epiandro was nice but is way too cost intensive for a long run at sufficient doses.
 
vujade

vujade

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I personally love being on DHT hormons/PH/DS

I just 2 weeks ago finished a short Cycle of transdermal Epiandro (alpha isomer)
This was my 2 time using alphadrone, i could have stayed on for months !

Just for clarification for those following along....

Alphadrone is Androsterone, the Alpha Isomer. EpiAndro is the Beta Isomer.
Both essentially the same prohormone, but Androsterone is stronger then
EpiAndro, and has a positive effect on Gaba, which translates into an overall
better sense of well being too.
 
vujade

vujade

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
this info was harvested from an older thread here on AM.
The original poster is no longer active, do I didn't tag him.
I found it to be rather interesting and thought I'd share it since were discussing DHT ;)


EXCLUSIVE : The What & The How of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) in the Brain
Many bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts are going to be thrilled to find out how exactly
DHT works in the Brain. What does it do for us there ? Is it really responsible for libido, and
if so, what other chemicals does it affect? This article aims to surpass and explain the
general knowledge floating around on the Internet and on Forums. I am not a doctor, but I
have compiled a nice bunch of references and studies to cite the foundation of this article.
I also will explain briefly (an estimate) how someone would feel based on the relative changes
due to DHT - discussed in this article.

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone),
like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting),
it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not
very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics
(such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since
it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the
studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug,
Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair
follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been
implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency
AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the
rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem
here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs
have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful,
with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement,
maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM

But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has
been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in
predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases
GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote
A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the
"alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy
production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis
(fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone,
to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function
(by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also
increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors;
since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin
receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced
prolactin release(20). This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly
DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the
above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA
receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release &
function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation
and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor
distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who
don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system,
vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic
receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might
just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine,
GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated
alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's
metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate
that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression,
whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33). This again reflects the need for DHT
and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways,
however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL
deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination
with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin
activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess
anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder,
but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37). In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin
5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that
estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39).
Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.


OTHER CENTRAL AND MOLECULAR CHANGES INDUCED BY DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE

Dihydrotestosterone appears to strongly increase MAPK; Mitogen-Activated-Protein-Kinase -
this leads to a plethora of central and molecular changes as well as genomic/expressional changes(40)(41).
This action further reinforces and validates DHT's suppressive effects on serotonin systems (42)
since activating MAPK leads to increased serotonin transporter (SERT) activity - an effect directly
opposite of SSRI's (43) (44) (45)



So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels,
decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA,
may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects
on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin,
and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual
anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits.
Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to
OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to
promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment
to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina,
charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
DHT may decrease glutamate activity & increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin.
DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
DHT increases cyclic AMP.
DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain.
DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.DHT increases
Mitogen-Activated-Protein Kinase (MAPK) which leads to a variety of molecular changes
and genomic changes as well as neural-changes; decreased serotonin activity in the brain and periphery.
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
Incredible info! Couldn`t have said it better. Much appreciated
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
I am also a big fan of DHT derivatives and now include low doses of mast E in all of my cruises. Even when I am not super shredded it is more of a "quality of life" drug and I definitely feel it contributes to focused aggression in training as well as higher levels of mental satisfaction and alpha feeling in general as well as heightened levels of body proprioception and mind muscle connection. Also I feel like people who say you need to be under 10% body fat to see any benefits from mast or you need to be in contest shape are a little off base, when I'm at ~13% I can still see a noticeable difference in my physique once I add in mast. I'm lucky because my body does fine with low e2 and my joints don't ache, zero chance of getting mpb at this point, only thing I do worry about is my prostate in the future. Although apparently elevated levels of e2 are also implicated in the development of prostate cancer in concert with DHT levels so I don't know. I really need to try boldenone, it would be great to have a compound that adds a little anabolic boost to complement the androgenic effects of mast
I`ve also considered adding Mast E to my cruise. What`s your dosage for Mast and T on a cruise?
 
mike33511

mike33511

Well-known member
Awards
0
I will also be adding Mast E to my TRT/cruise once my current cycle is finished. Normal dose is 200mg test a week, and I'm going to add 200mg mast to that.
 
Rodja

Rodja

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
3:2 ratio of test:mast for me to keep estrogen in healthy range. 1:1 lowers mine too much.
 

jmero2

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
3:2 ratio of test:mast for me to keep estrogen in healthy range. 1:1 lowers mine too much.
Interesting, I've never done mast but will be trying it soon. Your 3:2 ratio seems like a good place to start, how did you derive at that ratio and how long did it take you to figure it out?
 
rtmilburn

rtmilburn

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
3:2 ratio of test:mast for me to keep estrogen in healthy range. 1:1 lowers mine too much.
Use some dhea and pregenolone. Probably should be taking them anyways if you are on trt. And this way you get the benefits of those hormones but get to keep a higher dose of mast
 

hamdysayed

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
anyone know what options available for DHT like injectable etc
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
anyone know what options available for DHT like injectable etc
Pure DHT is Stanolone, which exists as an injectable base, Prop or Enanthate/Cypionate. It`s just hard to source, you`d have to get powder and homebrew.
 

Bunshichi

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Pure DHT is Stanolone, which exists as an injectable base, Prop or Enanthate/Cypionate. It`s just hard to source, you`d have to get powder and homebrew.
I can only find non ester powder
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
I can only find non ester powder
I`ve seen esterified Stanolone as Prop and E, used medically and as powder, but not from reliable sources. I`d have to esterify it too.

I`m most interested in Stanolone Enanthate and that`s what I`d try to brew
 

Bunshichi

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I`ve seen esterified Stanolone as Prop and E, used medically and as powder, but not from reliable sources. I`d have to esterify it too.

I`m most interested in Stanolone Enanthate and that`s what I`d try to brew
Enathate or a longer ester is what I would like. I even think undecylenate like equipoise would be perfect for what I want to do. Still if I could find it I would also be happy with propionate or acetate. Only non estered would have too short half life for me to use it.
 
fueledpassion

fueledpassion

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
How much Mast E dp you use?

I want to run a Boldenone cycle with some feel good compound but I fear Test to make too much e2 trouble for me.
But I'm not sure if a achievable dose of Masterone would be enough to keep lethargy away completely and add focus and a little agression.
I do need something that makes me feel amazing this time. Last cycles oral only just hit me hard with lethargy but in my current life situation I can't handle that.

Would be willing to not run the Boldenone but I do wan't the endurance benefits.

Something really dry and antiestrogenic wich boosts endurace and does not build mass too fast with added focus and endurance that can be run for a longer time would be perfect.

I figure Boldenone with DHT ester would do this but I can't find the latter.

Epiandro was nice but is way too cost intensive for a long run at sufficient doses.
Just run Bold and EQ together and keep T either completely out of just take 75-100mg per week with the others if you are one of those folks that just need T in every cycle. You won't feel as good without the higher doses of T but it would be a no drama cycle too.
 
Rodja

Rodja

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Interesting, I've never done mast but will be trying it soon. Your 3:2 ratio seems like a good place to start, how did you derive at that ratio and how long did it take you to figure it out?
Played around with dosing for a stretch there. Started at 450mg test and 600mg mast. Killed my libido completely. Kept test the same and dropped mast to 300mg. Within 10 days or so, I felt better and more like I was on a big blast than what I was actually running. At this point, a blast for me is to slightly bump up the test and add mast. It helps to take it to 11.
 
fueledpassion

fueledpassion

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Played around with dosing for a stretch there. Started at 450mg test and 600mg mast. Killed my libido completely. Kept test the same and dropped mast to 300mg. Within 10 days or so, I felt better and more like I was on a big blast than what I was actually running. At this point, a blast for me is to slightly bump up the test and add mast. It helps to take it to 11.
I've always enjoyed Mast at the 300-400mg/wk range. Anything more and sides starting setting in for me.
 

jmero2

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I'm prescribed 200 mg test c per week, I might try adding 200 mg mast e as a starting point and see if I need to adjust.
 

Scott4bama15

New member
Awards
0
Great thread! Being someone who deals with anxiety and isn't satisfied with my natural ability to socialize/interact with women, I can personally say that even DHEA based precursors to DHT do more for me than any medication available to me. I could stay on those permanently. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the benzodiazepines class targets GABA.
 

BodyOfWotan

New member
Awards
0
Great thread! Being someone who deals with anxiety and isn't satisfied with my natural ability to socialize/interact with women, I can personally say that even DHEA based precursors to DHT do more for me than any medication available to me. I could stay on those permanently. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the benzodiazepines class targets GABA.
Thanks for the feedback! I believe DHT is a very potent hormone/self medication against social anxiety and a better social lubricant than alcohol.
Taking DHEA as a precursor is also a good method for increasing DHT without causing any HPTA suppression. I`ve read about it on raypeat forums.

I`ve found a some new links / info on DHT and it`s metabolite`s actions in the brain:

anabolicapex.com/2017/01/30/allopregnanolone/

anabolicapex.com/2017/02/01/beyond-dht/


The first article is very interesting, showing that besides DHT`s direct effects on neurochemistry, 5-AR plays a major role in the brain by reducing Progesterone into 5α-DHP which is a precusor to the potent neurosteroid Allopregnanolone.

DHT also apparently has a positive feedback loop, the more DHT you have, the more 5-AR and DHT and consequently Allopregnanolone you have.

Allopregnanolone has neuroprotective, stress lowering qualities and activates GABA receptors. More about this can be read in the links.

This also sheds new light onto PFS (Post Finasteride Syndrome), because when inhibitng 5-AR, Allopregnanolone synthesis is markedly reduced.


I´ve also found that nicotine is a powerfull DHT booster, increasing blood DHT levels and DHT halflife in the blood.
Also interestingly nicotine is a strong armomatase inhibitor, especially in the brain.

I`m not encouraging anyone to smoke, just putting the info out here.

Personally I smoke and I started at 17/18. At the time I had an enlarged prostate, couldn`t take a f***** piss at times, but smoking cured this for me.
Now, that I B&C with Test, sometimes when I use test and arimidex I but don`t smoke for a few days I get an enlarged prostate again, although not as bad as it used to be. I believe without Adex it would be worse, but smoking just obliterates it very effectively (like 1 cig and 1-2 hrs later I`ll be fine)

Increasing my DHT or taking DHT derived AAS when Estrogen is in check however has no negative effects on my prostate.

Also I never had any issues with high E and when I use Arimidex my overall E is also in check, yet I get the prostate enlargement without smoking.
 
Monte_Cristo

Monte_Cristo

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I`ve had similar experiences with DHT steroids. High on life and supreme confidence but in a very stable way.
I believe that this is due to the effects of DHT on Dopamine.
Overall I´d go out on a limb and say that DHT is actually the main cause of positive mental effects related to Testosterone. Testosterone by itself does very little to nothing in terms of mental benefits -> look at Post Finasteride Syndrome, even if one has high T, if your 5AR is ****ed you won`t experience those positive mental effects.

For me DHT compounds are interesting exactly BECAUSE of their androgenic effects.

To sum up positive effects IMO:
- Confidence and wit / cognition
- Healthy level of aggression without mood swings
- Less/ no brain fog
- Feeling more energetic / stress resistant
- Facial hair growth
- Holding less water
- No need for AI or SERM, more stable estrogen levels
- Painfully strong erections (wakes me up several times during the night)
- Horny as F*** which in combination with the confidence and aggression makes for quite the womanizer

Negatives I´ve experienced -

- Too horny to get anything done, just thinking about sex and how to get it as much and as quick as possible, for days to such an extent that I couldn`t do any work and was close to seeking treatment for sex addiction.


Regarding Hair Loss and Prostate Cancer -

- I don`t believe DHT on its own causes either, but I`m not gonna go into detail unless someone needs me to elaborate.
I would really appreciate for you to elaborate about dht and hairloss.
 

Sparta12

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
this info was harvested from an older thread here on AM.
The original poster is no longer active, do I didn't tag him.
I found it to be rather interesting and thought I'd share it since were discussing DHT ;)


EXCLUSIVE : The What & The How of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) in the Brain
Many bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts are going to be thrilled to find out how exactly
DHT works in the Brain. What does it do for us there ? Is it really responsible for libido, and
if so, what other chemicals does it affect? This article aims to surpass and explain the
general knowledge floating around on the Internet and on Forums. I am not a doctor, but I
have compiled a nice bunch of references and studies to cite the foundation of this article.
I also will explain briefly (an estimate) how someone would feel based on the relative changes
due to DHT - discussed in this article.

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone),
like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting),
it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not
very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics
(such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since
it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the
studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug,
Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair
follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been
implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency
AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the
rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem
here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs
have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful,
with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement,
maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM

But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has
been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in
predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases
GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote
A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the
"alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy
production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis
(fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone,
to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function
(by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also
increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors;
since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin
receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced
prolactin release(20). This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly
DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the
above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA
receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release &
function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation
and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor
distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who
don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system,
vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic
receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might
just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine,
GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated
alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's
metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate
that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression,
whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33). This again reflects the need for DHT
and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways,
however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL
deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination
with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin
activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess
anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder,
but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37). In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin
5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that
estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39).
Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.


OTHER CENTRAL AND MOLECULAR CHANGES INDUCED BY DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE

Dihydrotestosterone appears to strongly increase MAPK; Mitogen-Activated-Protein-Kinase -
this leads to a plethora of central and molecular changes as well as genomic/expressional changes(40)(41).
This action further reinforces and validates DHT's suppressive effects on serotonin systems (42)
since activating MAPK leads to increased serotonin transporter (SERT) activity - an effect directly
opposite of SSRI's (43) (44) (45)



So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels,
decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA,
may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects
on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin,
and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual
anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits.
Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to
OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to
promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment
to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina,
charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
DHT may decrease glutamate activity & increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin.
DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
DHT increases cyclic AMP.
DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain.
DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.DHT increases
Mitogen-Activated-Protein Kinase (MAPK) which leads to a variety of molecular changes
and genomic changes as well as neural-changes; decreased serotonin activity in the brain and periphery.
wow really interesting... especially the hair part... I really really want to start a new cycle and want to use epistane and dermacrine, but scared due to the DHT and hair loss... maybe I should look into zinc and some kind of mild prolactin/estrogen control on cycle and just see how i go lol... i do have nizoral/minxodil and ru atm... seem to be regrowing hair which is good
 

hammerheart

New member
Awards
0
Lol. I have also found a sketchy source for Stanolone powder.
Half life of pure Stanolone is supposedly 53min, but I`ve heard 40-60 min as well.

Esterification with Enanthic acid should be possible with equipment that can be purchase legally, I´ve seen instructions for this on Homebrewing AAS related sites.

IMO Stanolon Enanthate or Cypionate could make a very good cruising compound anywhere from 50-200 mg/ week
Hello, just found this thread whilst browsing the internet.

Are there any updates about your experience with DHT? Have you been able to source esterified DHT, or perform the reaction yourself?

I'm kind in the same situation I have some raw DHT base on the way (a bit of mestanolone also) but I'm looking forward to obtain any esterified form that is available, or just set up an home lab to do it myself... I have found a "recipe" of a kind while digging some old research about parental DHT dating back to the 80's. But, if you got any more info about how to do this in a homebrew setting, I'd be very glad if you were willing to share.

As for DHT t/2 yes it's 53 min or so in the body, that means if pinned IM the muscle can act marginally as a depot I believe, and slower release a bit. That's why I'm going to brew my DHT (if it gets in, hopefully) into an oil-based injectable, the sort of TNE, at low concentration - starting with 50mg/ml, perhaps a bit more if it holds.
 
brofessorx

brofessorx

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Not sure if this will help but figured I’d repost anyways:
In layman' terms, how would a chemist differentiate between these two since the molecular weight is the same? Is the a isomer harder to produce or just cheaper than the b isomer? Have you ever seen legit androsterone?
steroids are all made from plant steroids like beta-sitosterol and diosgenin.

these steroids have 3-OH in the beta configuration, so throughout the semi-synthesis to stuff like DHEA and pregnenolone (and beyond) it remains like that

To isomerize it to 3alpha is not an easy or cheap thing to do

I dont recall seeing legit androsterone in samples i have tested. It is a stronger androgen than epiandrosterone for sure
everything i have tested that has been labeled androsterone ended up being epiandrosterone

Vida has assays listed for both versus test by injection

Androsterone 50 androgenic 30 anabolic

Epiandrosterone 2 androgenic no entry anabolic
Interesting
 
brofessorx

brofessorx

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Also, the 2a methyl in masteron prevents 3-hsd enzymes from breaking it down in muscle. This changes up things a little bit compared to plain dht.
If one could find a way to reduce 3-hsd or something that competes for it, but with a stronger affinity, you’d enhance the effects of dht that much more.
 

hammerheart

New member
Awards
0
Also, the 2a methyl in masteron prevents 3-hsd enzymes from breaking it down in muscle. This changes up things a little bit compared to plain dht.
If one could find a way to reduce 3-hsd or something that competes for it, but with a stronger affinity, you’d enhance the effects of dht that much more.
It depends what you are after really, 3-HSD mediated conversion of DHT into 3a and 3b-diol is what underlies its powerful pro-cognitive, sexual, rewarding and anti-anxiety effects in the CNS.

If you seek muscle AR activation, then I'd just stick DHT based AAS like masteron.
 

Similar threads


Top