Derailing the Epistane Train

today was the 5x5 workout B

squat
5x5x95
going to keep this weight and progress from here according to the program guidelines. felt really good, and i should be up to 270 in no time

overhead press
5x5x45
this is my first time doing this with a barbell and i put it back so far like the youtube vids i almost fell backwards on my ass. going to try 65 next time

deadlift
5x225
this is a good number for me, going to stick with this and adjust according to the program guidelines

pullups
3xfail
sadly, these are really hard again for some reason. going back to putting the pullup bar in my doorway at work
4/4/4

prone bridges
3x30 seconds
um yeah!

back to eating!
 
good morning, today is monday and i woke up feeling like complete ****. moving gym to this evening. rain or shine, vomiting or not, im going in. it's only 45 minutes and will probably do me some good. i can definitely feel my arms catching up and soon my back/shoulders. i meant to get a weight reading when i woke up but just getting in to work was enough. i wish i would have realized back in the day that getting big wasnt about lifting weights but eating. and dont get me wrong i love eating, but god damn.
 
goals for end of summer:
5x5x225 squat
5x5x185 bench
5x315 deadlift

2x185 squat is about my limit right now, with 135 being my present working weight
5x5x115 is what im using on the bench to improve my form. it takes about that entire exercise to even feel warmed up, i hate my shoulders they are pieces of ****. 5x135 is pretty easy after that, probably have some more in me.

pulled 5x245 dead on wednesday and it was extremely easy, however i still felt my form waiver slightly so im only going to bump it up to 255 or so next week.

i really feel my lower back doing squats, and it doesnt hurt, it's like a pump and it feels awesome. very different than how my shoulders feel trying to hold myself together on a bench. yarr.

when is the next talk like a pirate day anyway???
 
hey, stop hijacking my thread ****er!

squat
5x5x165
i think i need to start warming these up, didnt feel right until about the 4th set. also started trying to come up faster, still controlled. definitely brings the intensity level up. and i can feel it. first set was pretty hard and i was like WTF man, but no probs.

overhead press
5x5x75
much improved over last week, didnt hurt one bit. not sure if it's because i already wore the **** out of myself on drums before hand. definitely bumping to 85 next week.

dead
5x275
kind of did these in a cramped space, but paid special attention to keeping the back straight, head up, and pulled them off. took a lot of intensity, but did them all without fail. going to shoot for 5x280 next week.

pull up
10/6/7
pussy.

prone bridges
3x30 sec
pussy.

the nice thing about this stronglifts 5x5 program is i can feel it working my arms a LOT, and a lot more than i ever did with dumb bells or anything else. arms have almost felt constantly pumped (and remember, these are already lethal 13" bad boys). forearms are feeling it as well. since i started doing the inverted rows, it's been easier to focus on correcting posture and im very happy with those results.

i felt like total and complete crap today, but as ive read here- go anyways, you may surprise yourself. glad i went, i would have respected myself less if i didnt.

off to shower/eat/sleep and hopefully feel better soon.

peace
 
ego+1, was complimented on my shoulders at work today. all them pushups and overhead presses are starting to pay off ;)
 
Hey, i'm a first time poster, and this is actually the first site ive ever joined, but i have a question it sounds like you guys might know about, idk how to start a new thread or topic or whatever if thats how you ask a question but someone let me know. Here is my question- I've been lifting all nat long enough and done enough research to want to start my first PH cycle, however, i want to do one of the most mild ones, with minimal cons, and decent pros in dry gains, so ive been told H-drol, Havoc, or Epistane. Anyway, i want to know which one would be best overall, and if milk thistle through and after and nolva or some good AI would be enough for PCT. I know some guys who did only one product for PCT that was supposed to have it all and it worked fine so i dont want to have to buy three to fice PCT supps if its not necessary ya know. But any feedback would be appreciated.
 
hey bro, welcome to the forum! i'll pm you in just a sec to help out and let you know some of the "watch-out!"s on AM (like posing about PH outside of the ph section :))
 
i think the cycle i ran was more of just to run one, especially being a lightweight. the differences i have learned/made in diet and training over the past year are beyond night and day. i dont see myself running anything again for awhile, there are just too many programs out there to follow like the 5x5, bill starr's variation, or just straight up hypertrophy with splits. and AM is an endless supply of logs and things to try that dont require any ph/ds use at all. i think ive gained more since epi than while on.

training for starters, i was really all into mike mentzers HIT where you have to work the **** out of yourself once a week to get big or risk over training, so i spent the first couple weeks doing that, and finally getting pissed off about not putting in the work/effort that i used to and ran 3 and then 4 day split.

since starting 5x5 ive already beat my deadlift pr's while on epi, was 2x275 and im already aiming for 5x280 next week and i feel that it will take a great amount of effort for me, but will hit it and bump up the following week.

at this stage in the game for me, im pretty sure that if i was running a placebo, i'd have had the same results!
 
overdid something last wednesday, been off since then. skipping squats and being very careful with the shoulders this week. my right shoulder is like, jesus... well not really like jesus but DAMNIT anyway. not sure if it's because ive been toying around with glucosamine amounts per day or whatever, but it's been popping LOUD. feels much better today, but still being careful.

this week will be Monday / Thursday / Saturday due to schedule. I'll be up in Philly the rest of the week doing mindless exercises for work (most likely lots of geocaching and visiting the town). Planning for good weather, packing for the worst. Can't wait to get up there for a change of pace.
 
ok im a lying bastard

squats: went easy on these to make sure i didnt hurt myself further
5x45
5x95
5x135
5x155
5x175
5x195

bench: for some reason that damn shoulder was holding me back from moving forward
5x5x135

inverted row: better form this week so these numbers mean a lot more to me
10/9/7

pushups
40/20/25

reverse crunch: these things are still the devil
3x12 w/ 40lb counterweight

can't wait to see how this feels in a day or two :)
 
are you ready for fall?
 

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all in due time my friends :)

got back from philly late last night, schedule is a bit messed. i'll be hitting my wednesday today (5x5 workout B) and will be hitting A on Sunday. Next week is going to go Tue (AM) Wed (PM) Fri(PM). I work late shift next week but it offsets by so little that I just have to remember to feed the dog/cats a bit sooner when I get in.

moving to the city and working there would probably do me a lot of good, i dont think i've ever walked that much since last time I was up there. good workout dodging cars and people at rush hour!!
 
finally reached my grip limit on these damn deadlifts. it was very f**** hard to get 5x295, forearms need to wake the hell up and grow

squat: 5x135 warm up, 5x5x185, 1x225 just to taste the future. lower back was feeling the work, cant wait for this to get better!

overhead press: 5x5x85 felt good, im reminded again that shoulders are one of my weak points. i will feel this like a mofo

dead: 5x295. wish i had my straps but left them at home, needed them tonight if i was going to go any heavier.

pull up: 5/5/5
prone bridges: 3x30 seconds

very good night IMO and looking forward to sunday. tired now, very tired. going to eat and click on the tv and drift into never never land.
 
getting ready to head out. some things i learned from last week for myself, even a little bit of alcohol seems to kill my progress groove. i havent felt right since last week in philly+last weekend. this is going to be another hardcore party weekend, but i'll probably leave the patron and vodka alone.

since i started actually working on squats and the reverse crunches, ive noticed the beginning of ab transformation so im pretty excited there. a little behind schedule but hell i have a couple months to go so im going to be stepping them up. i know 5x5 has them set at twice a week but im thinking every day or every other day regardless.

picture quality is complete crap, but i need to post something to look back on later.

also happy birthday to my AM membership, just renewed after my first year. here's to another one!
 

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just noticed i didnt post up sunday's workout.

squat
3x5x185

i think the lower amounts of glucosamine worked against me, or ive been wearing myself out lately since i became such a lazy bastard after getting out of the army

finished up with 2x5x135


bench
5x135
5x5x145

shoulders still hurt here, being careful to not get hurt and build back strength here

inverted row
11/7/7

pushups
40/15/15

reverse crunch, 40lb counter
3x12

cant wait to see how i feel after tonight

im going to keep the 185 squat and make sure i can nail 5x5, keeping the 145 bench to see how i feel in a couple days from it

reverse crunches still hurt like a mother f*cker from middle of 2nd set on. i wish someone would have stressed these to me back in my younger days. :zx11pissed:
 
Give me some more squat volume man.

Rack that 185 up three sets if you have to. Try to pound out 20 reps.

If you dont feel like puking or sh*tting yourself on leg day - I'd call it a failure.
 
buster0371 said:
hows the epistane treating ya?
Click to expand...

pct for that ended around feb, im not sure if it was the druggggs or the mental state just from knowing i was taking something, but i did start pushing myself a bit more.



TL: i actually think the 185 is too much for my lower back, or right around the hips. i can get 5x5 but it takes me like 15 minutes to nail them all and im breathing like a son of a bitch and sweating. it's a good time and all but it's mostly due to joint pain too and i dont want to take any backwards steps. i'll take your advice and hit my last set to failure (im trying to maintain the 5x5 program) or 20 reps, whichever comes first. also, backing down to 175 to make sure im only working muscles and not grinding my bones to death. then again, maybe im just being too wussy about it. i'll know in a few weeks though! im still on the glucosamine, i need to add in some super cissus.

i tried capping a few months ago but that's messy as ****, im just going to start dumping the cissus into a shake or two every day and see what happens.

friday im bringing straps and going for that 301 deadlift. that bitch is mine!
 
normally i dont eat until after the gym, but i had like 50g carbs in corn and some hamburgers and i had the biggest damn pump ever after going through the pushups. im gonna have to consider eating that for awhile! lol

squat
5x185
moving back to 175. it's not muscle failure, but hips seem to be stressed the f*** out. once whatever is there gets stronger i'll be able to kill more weight.

bench
5x135
keeping that weight until my shoulders act right

inverted row
12/8/7

pushups
40/16/9
been very tired lately, feel flat on my face after that number 9

reverse crunch, 35 lb counter. still brutal
3x12

im also firing my o'neil large shirt. it wears like a medium and feels tiny. i hate it. i bet it's mislabeled!@#
 
Haste09 said:
Hey, i'm a first time poster, and this is actually the first site ive ever joined, but i have a question it sounds like you guys might know about, idk how to start a new thread or topic or whatever if thats how you ask a question but someone let me know. Here is my question- I've been lifting all nat long enough and done enough research to want to start my first PH cycle, however, i want to do one of the most mild ones, with minimal cons, and decent pros in dry gains, so ive been told H-drol, Havoc, or Epistane. Anyway, i want to know which one would be best overall, and if milk thistle through and after and nolva or some good AI would be enough for PCT. I know some guys who did only one product for PCT that was supposed to have it all and it worked fine so i dont want to have to buy three to fice PCT supps if its not necessary ya know. But any feedback would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Cool mate, in future I'd start your own new thread by pressing 'new thread' on the forum you want to post in.

H-drol seems like the best choice for you IMO from what you've posted but I'd read a few more logs on each of those products before you buy anything. Get on the company forums or do a post for 'epistane log' for example, there's tons of information on here if you're willing to look for it.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/

In terms of PCT, I wholeheartedly believe in purchasing SERMS (nolva, clomid etc.) as a precaution, even if you choose to not use them. There's a massive amount of information on post cycle therapy in this forum:

Invalid Link Removed

I went with a SERM and cortisol blocker for my last PCT (10-week Testosterone Enanthate cycle), whether you feel you need one for a DS/PH cycle is debateable, I personally wouldn't cycle without one on hand.

They are tried and tested and will certainly prevent most oestrogenic sides from the steroids getting worse when you come off cycle. Obviously they are illegal to purchase without prescription in the US, so be careful.

Before I leave this poor OP to get back to his thread, all I'll say is research MORE than you feel you need, leave NOTHING to chance or you'll regret it.
 
my buddy charles has me trying Ceylon cinnamon (NOT CASSIA aka grocery store) to help with the joints. it has an antioxidant rating of ~300,000 (q10 is ~4000). now the cassia cinnamon (most common) has this crap called courmarin in it which will destroy your liver (you can guess what this is bad, especially with some of the "supplements" we take here). it also helps with cholesterol, and that's how he came across it.

couple good links: Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed

where i'll be ordering from
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looking forward to posting results once i start taking this
 
rbuecker said:
getting ready to head out. some things i learned from last week for myself, even a little bit of alcohol seems to kill my progress groove. i havent felt right since last week in philly+last weekend. this is going to be another hardcore party weekend, but i'll probably leave the patron and vodka alone.

since i started actually working on squats and the reverse crunches, ive noticed the beginning of ab transformation so im pretty excited there. a little behind schedule but hell i have a couple months to go so im going to be stepping them up. i know 5x5 has them set at twice a week but im thinking every day or every other day regardless.

picture quality is complete crap, but i need to post something to look back on later.

also happy birthday to my AM membership, just renewed after my first year. here's to another one!
Click to expand...



Sup bro! Great progress brol. Looking good. Keep up the good work man. You will soon be a beast.
 
TimberLakers said:
Give me some more squat volume man.

Rack that 185 up three sets if you have to. Try to pound out 20 reps.

If you dont feel like puking or sh*tting yourself on leg day - I'd call it a failure.
Click to expand...

going to go 175 for 20 reps on first set tomorrow! already written in the log book as complete, so now it must be done!
 
TimberLakers said:
Let me know how it goes. Do you belt up?
Click to expand...

no belt. i remember buying one and subsequently reading an assload of threads where using a belt allows you to be more sloppy and hurt yourself even more. if it doesnt feel right, i lessen the load. so far that's only an issue with joints, most likely due to lack of enough supporting muscle in that area. i had the same issue with skull crushers and elbows when i first started, and now that valley indentation is nice and thick like the rope we use when rock climbing. i know it just takes a little time and then the increases are insane. getting to that point is what keeps me moving.
 
squat
- okay totally pussied out on the widowmakers
5x135
10x175
5x175
5x175

bench
4x5x135
5x145
- anterior delts still weak, building these. my new nickname is mister muscle imbalance

inverted row
- improving here
12/9/6

*lightning crash outside* wonder if i'll get to post this before power cuts out

supposed to get hail too, woot

pushup
40/17/15

reverse crunch, 35 lb counter
3x12
- first set was easy, getting somewhere on these finally
- last set was still a complete bitçh

the last two weeks have been hell at work and ive missed a few days.
i think it's helped me recover a bit from possibly straining myself too much on some things. it could all just be in my head, but i feel great and cant wait to get in there again.

also considering ditching this 5x5 thing and going back to a m/t r/f split. i really liked that pace and didnt have so many rest days that skipping was easy or as detrimental to progress. anyone has a great 4 day split they want me to jump on just hollar.

one thing to know is that i love the inverted rows and the pushups in 5x5 because i always feel a hellish pump in my little t-rex arms afterwards. also combining push/pull in the same day seems to be really awesome in terms of stretching too and helping with blood flow after the working set.

happy monday!
 
I do a 5 day split buddy, but it's not confined to a specific day. I just move onto the next part when I get to the gym next - so could be 6 days on a row, or 3 days a week.
 
massive abuse tonight

i abused the squat rack for overhead press less than 135 lbs

some dude tried to kill me for being such a little bitçh :D

squats- ok by next monday new routine, im sick of squats every day
5x135
5x175
5x155
5x135
3x225

overhead press
5x85
5x105
5x85
3x105
5x85

dead
3x310
3x225
3x135

i saw 2 other 45s in the corner crying, they know their time is coming
strapless, like the tops my women wear

pullup
10/6/2
 
today is free for all day at the gym, any exercise, any weight goes, the only requirement massive intensity and massive pain

nothing new worth posting from the past week number wise. the shoulders are starting to grow to support this skeletal structure and allow me to push larger numbers soon. cant wait to graduate 135 overhead press. i think next cycle is going to be pretty furious, bring it on i say
 
im calling gym fun day a success, no notebook, just running like a crazy bitch from one piece of equipment to the next. let's see if i can remember anything:

2x10x135
10x155 bench with 0 pain and proper form for once in my damn life

2x10x135 decline bench (found a new muscle in the back of my arm here)

2x10x110kg pec deck

10x45 tbar row
10x90
10x115
10x45

10x20 tricep pull down
10x30
10x40
10x20

lots of bb curls

massive pump courtesy of anadraulic state

oh and 2 megamillions quick pick lottery tickets to finish it off :usa1:
 
oh and call it all mental or placebo or whatever you want, but I'm totally calling Anabolic Xtreme's "AXcite" absolutely AWESOME. it's like truth serum, now all the womens are verbalizing how massively good Anabolic Minds has been to me!
 
time for another logbook-less day, f the book! mp3 player is locked and loaded and it's time to get pumped! today brought to us by sevendust, hatebreed, terror, slipknot, a little white zombie, some godsmack, and pantera
 
ok, tried moving the shake to after working out. a lot of you guys swear by doing carbs and whey post workout (god I hope I read this wrong though), and all I can say is HYPO. i can almost see the forum, sort of, all these flippy colors and ****- did someone try to drug me while i was busy lifting? O_O lol

so yeah, im going to go back to what i was doing preworkout

as soon as i can see the kitchen.. hah
 
rbuecker said:
ok, tried moving the shake to after working out. a lot of you guys swear by doing carbs and whey post workout (god I hope I read this wrong though), and all I can say is HYPO. i can almost see the forum, sort of, all these flippy colors and ****- did someone try to drug me while i was busy lifting? O_O lol

so yeah, im going to go back to what i was doing preworkout

as soon as i can see the kitchen.. hah
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Hypo from eating post workout? That just doesn't make sense dude. You don't eat following your workout?!
 
TimberLakers said:
Hypo from eating post workout? That just doesn't make sense dude. You don't eat following your workout?!
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no no i missed my pre workout shake, spent about an hour in there, and it just hit me on the way out. ive been eating to get out of the whole mess. still a little spotty vision but not as bad
 
rbuecker said:
no no i missed my pre workout shake, spent about an hour in there, and it just hit me on the way out. ive been eating to get out of the whole mess. still a little spotty vision but not as bad
Click to expand...

If you're still bulking, take a shake before and after... Its a no brainer.
 
finally back into splitting up everything across 4 days. i did back yesterday, and used some of the lat hammer strength equipment for the first time yesterday. lots of rowing yesterday too, forearms are totally bitching at me. by the end of 45 minutes i was unable to cheat even 1 pull up and today i feel absolutely awesome.

quick question, when you guys mention doing 12+ sets, are you talking per exercise or the sum of all exercise sets combined? (ive been cursed with technical writing for years and it causes common sense to be not very common at all.)

timmmmayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
rbuecker said:
finally back into splitting up everything across 4 days. i did back yesterday, and used some of the lat hammer strength equipment for the first time yesterday. lots of rowing yesterday too, forearms are totally bitching at me. by the end of 45 minutes i was unable to cheat even 1 pull up and today i feel absolutely awesome.

quick question, when you guys mention doing 12+ sets, are you talking per exercise or the sum of all exercise sets combined? (ive been cursed with technical writing for years and it causes common sense to be not very common at all.)

timmmmayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

12+ sets would be the conglomeration of all exercises for the body part.. say... 4 sets of flat bench, 4 sets of incline bench, and 4 sets of decline cable flies... something like that.

Personally I prefer more.

Was the hammer machine something between a lat pulldown and a low row? Like a 45 degree angle? I've used mine a couple times - to no great avail... but I think that would be a great muscle set to train.. Would really bulk up the area right behind your pec.... Good "t-shirt" muscle.
 
TimberLakers said:
12+ sets would be the conglomeration of all exercises for the body part.. say... 4 sets of flat bench, 4 sets of incline bench, and 4 sets of decline cable flies... something like that.

Personally I prefer more.

Was the hammer machine something between a lat pulldown and a low row? Like a 45 degree angle? I've used mine a couple times - to no great avail... but I think that would be a great muscle set to train.. Would really bulk up the area right behind your pec.... Good "t-shirt" muscle.
Click to expand...

yep exactly, i went to get the name of it but there were a bunch of kids monkeying around so i stayed clear. im not sure if it was that machine, or all the yard work and moving this weekend, but definitely felt it in my rear shoulder. starting to get a lot of comments about the wings too, but they're from long time friends who are used to me as a stick. still nice to hear though.

today was chest/tri day, let's see how memory serves

bench
10x115
10x135
6x145
6x155

pec deck
2x10x50
10x70
10x100

dips (hammer)
10x180
10x140
10x115
10x90
10x45 (left, then right)

tricep pull down
4x10x35

incline db press
4x6x35s
 
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