decreasing serotonin increases testosterone

[shilajit]

That's weird because when you take testosterone, it increases serotonin

Testosterone is more dopaminergic.

Dopamine and serotonin have a paradoxical relationship. The more dopamine you have, the less serotonin you will have.

Serotonin is also more closely connected with estrogen.

Test and dopamine can be thought of as yang, the masculine side of the equation.

Where as serotonin / estrogen fall more into the yin category.

It's common for serotonin levels to increase during fall and winter when there's less sun, we are less active


And conversely, it's obviously common for test, androgens and dopamine to rise during spring and summer when we get more sun, are more active, train more, harder and take more action.

Both are important. The issue is that when serotonin is chronically elevated, it causes dysfunction to a great number of systems because so many of these neurotransmitters have paradoxical relationships.

Particularly for men, as it tends to make us more docile, comfortable just being stagnant, not taking action. Can speak from experience having dealt with chronically elevated levels of serotonin, it takes away your drive for action.

The problem is that, people are generally taught that serotonin is the "happy" hormone and are very trigger happy to prescribe SSRI's, even though there's ample evidence that they're associated with heightened states of depression, suicidal thoughts and a number of other fun symptoms. (Though not all)

Many school shooters are known to have been on ssris, which is a topic widely discussed in psychiatry.


Unfortunately, this is one of those things where we've been fed bad research for many years.

Much like how meat and animal food was purported to be the villain of health for decades as a result of Ancel keys and the horrifically biased, agenda driven 7 countries study.

It will change drastically within the next 5-10 years. Much like how the swing back to carnivory being an optimal dietary path also slowly changed within the last decade, ever decades of low fat nonsense driven by bad science.

 

[poluvolo]

 

[shilajit]

Exactly this

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

I haven't read everything on this thread but, BEWARE OF OVERDOSING ZINC! If you take too much or take it on an empty stomach it can cause severe nausea and worse. It can even be life threatening and require chelation at the hospital.

I have been supplementing powdered zinc and magnesium PM and slightly overscooped the zinc (probably 1/5 tsp , maybe 2-5x my usual dose) and I was in bad shape for 12 hrs. Some of the worst stomach pain, nausea, cold sweats and fainting I've ever experienced. Milk helped, as it binds to zinc, but please be careful all!

"225 milligrams (mg) or more usually result in vomiting, including vomiting blood. This can occur within 30 minutes of ingestion. Kidney injury, liver damage, and bleeding or blood clotting problems can also occur."

 

[shilajit]

I haven't read everything on this thread but, BEWARE OF OVERDOSING ZINC! If you take too much or take it on an empty stomach it can cause severe nausea and worse. It can even be life threatening and require chelation at the hospital.

I have been supplementing powdered zinc and magnesium PM and slightly overscooped the zinc (probably 1/5 tsp , maybe 2-5x my usual dose) and I was in bad shape for 12 hrs. Some of the worst stomach pain, nausea, cold sweats and fainting I've ever experienced. Milk helped, as it binds to zinc, but please be careful all!

"225 milligrams (mg) or more usually result in vomiting, including vomiting blood. This can occur within 30 minutes of ingestion. Kidney injury, liver damage, and bleeding or blood clotting problems can also occur."

Depends on the person

Some may have naturally high zinc levels already, so when you take a bigger dose, you're creating that toxicity.

Most people tend to be on the lower end of zinc and often need those higher doses.

It also helps balancing/ chelating copper which tends to be high in a lot of people.

Always best to Start slow and gauge how you feel with a supplement, which will give you a sense of how much you may or may not need.

Obviously testing to find out your levels prior to consuming larger doses would also be wise.

 

[Ziyo]

Testosterone is more dopaminergic.

Dopamine and serotonin have a paradoxical relationship. The more dopamine you have, the less serotonin you will have.

Serotonin is also more closely connected with estrogen.

Test and dopamine can be thought of as yang, the masculine side of the equation.

Where as serotonin / estrogen fall more into the yin category.

It's common for serotonin levels to increase during fall and winter when there's less sun, we are less active


And conversely, it's obviously common for test, androgens and dopamine to rise during spring and summer when we get more sun, are more active, train more, harder and take more action.

Both are important. The issue is that when serotonin is chronically elevated, it causes dysfunction to a great number of systems because so many of these neurotransmitters have paradoxical relationships.

Particularly for men, as it tends to make us more docile, comfortable just being stagnant, not taking action. Can speak from experience having dealt with chronically elevated levels of serotonin, it takes away your drive for action.

The problem is that, people are generally taught that serotonin is the "happy" hormone and are very trigger happy to prescribe SSRI's, even though there's ample evidence that they're associated with heightened states of depression, suicidal thoughts and a number of other fun symptoms. (Though not all)

Many school shooters are known to have been on ssris, which is a topic widely discussed in psychiatry.


Unfortunately, this is one of those things where we've been fed bad research for many years.

Much like how meat and animal food was purported to be the villain of health for decades as a result of Ancel keys and the horrifically biased, agenda driven 7 countries study.

It will change drastically within the next 5-10 years. Much like how the swing back to carnivory being an optimal dietary path also slowly changed within the last decade, ever decades of low fat nonsense driven by bad science.

But the question here IS..
Should we purposely want to decrease our serotonin levels? Not just make sure there isn’t too much of it but should we not have much in the first place?

 

[shilajit]

But the question here IS..
Should we purposely want to decrease our serotonin levels? Not just make sure there isn’t too much of it but should we not have much in the first place?

Well, it's like saying cortisol is bad. Obviously these things all serve a purpose in the grand scheme. When they're out of balance, that's where the issues happen.

Generally higher estrogen will lead to higher levels of serotonin though.

Where as testosterone seems to be more on the dopaminergic side. Although it's probably a bit more nuanced.

It's said that animals get large increases in serotonin prior to hibernation. Which also seems to be the case with us. During winter, when we have less sun, less activity and are inside a lot more, our serotonin levels will rise and dopamine levels will fall to correspond with the level of activity that the seasons require.

So, it's not necessarily that serotonin is bad


But, it seems like a lot of people become excessively high in serotonin levels, all year round, which just leads to a sort of stagnant apathetic sort of state that lasts much longer than we might typically see throughout history, as it might naturally correspond with the seasons.

Lots of things lead to increased serotonin today.

Estrogen Is a big one, xenoestrogens binding to receptor sites in the form of microplastics probably plays a factor. Estrogen leads to higher copper levels. Copper and zinc have a paradoxical relationship, so high copper in a person for a long period of time will lead to depleted zinc levels.

Histamine levels play a factor. Lots of people are histamine intolerant these days which can lead to higher levels of serotonin.

Antidepressant drugs, or even a lot of drugs people use regularly in general have some not so favorable effects on serotonin.

It's all a pretty nasty cycle, potentially, because there's so many different interconnected elements in the body, nervous system and brain.




When you look at athletes, bodybuilders, amateur lifters and just people who train regularly, they're all kind of doing things that lead to high dopamine, high test, high androgens, lower estrogens which also seems to correspond with lower serotonin.

And I feel like athletes tend to be some of the most mentally healthy we tend to come across in the world, generally speaking.

I think test / androgens are definitely a huge part of what's affected. But it goes far beyond that too, the mental implications of imbalanced serotonin levels can be significant as well in many cases.

I had serotonin syndrome early last year, so I learned in a very tangible way just how far from the happy hormone it is. I may have even lived regularly in chronically heightened serotonin states for a lot of periods of life without knowing it.

Its a rabbit hole for sure.