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Deciding What's Useful

Ott

New member
So, I've been reading mixed opinions on all of the following supplements for bulking/cutting (or bodybuilding in general). So what I'm asking is if multiple people can give me their opinions on one forum for all of the following:
•L-Carnitine
•L-Glutamine
•L-Arginine & L-Ornithine
Y'all let me know y'all's opinions, and then I'll decide if they'd be worth my money.
 
I have read that ALCAR is superior for cutting
Glutamine is probably a waste
Arginine also. L-Ornithine maybe not?
 
I'm not positive what you're after but thinking LCLT or ALCAR is above these options
 
L-Carnitine - mixed results from scientific research. Personally I'm not impressed. I'd take it if it were ultra cheap as icing on the cake but wouldn't put much faith in results from it alone.

Glutamine - Has been shown to be of benefit only if deficient (vegans, vegetarians with low dairy intake) or during PROLONGED endurance exercise. Not worth the $ imo.

Arginine - I like. Has been proven to increase N.O, bloodflow, decrease BP, and increase anaerobic work capacity.

Ornithine - Not impressed with the research. Possible decrease in fatigue and cortisol but I'm not convinced to any meaningful measure.


If you want cited studies just hit me up. I'm multitasking over here so I left them out.
 
l-carnitine fumarate is often overlooked, but a great performance increaser.actually people with chronic fatigue syndrome tend to react negatively to lclt and alcar but not lc-fumarate.

i think the most important supplements in regards to health and body composition are nutrient partitioners, aromatase inhibitors and antioxidants.

a simple regimen would be something like inhibit-e (great product for overall health too and thyroid), burn24 by omega sports, l-carnitine fumarate 3 grams preworkout and a lot of dark chocolate at least 80%cocoa. contains theobromine, many aminos, small amounts of various stimulants and epticatechin. one of the healthiest foods there is with an orac twice as high as wild blueberries and also posesses fat loss properties.

a great, healthy, cheap effective preworkout would be a cup of strong coffee, 2 grams dl-phenylalanine, 1 gram chocamine or 40-80grams bitter chocolade, 3 grams l-carnitine fumarate. if you wanna optimize this add 1 gram of agmatine, a good brand or if possible agmapure or even ergonox by myodyne and 200mg ubiquinol. take this 1.5 hours preworkout and have something with carbs in it 30 min. preworkout and intra, for example 16 oz. of chocolate milk. the agmatine will shuttle the carbs into the muscle, this will potentiate the pump more than just agmatine alone without carbs, the powergrape from the ergopure gives great vascularity, dlpa improves mood via increased enkephalins, the chocolate increases serotonin and any caffeine sides are balanced out by this. one feels awake and healthy and the ubiquinol with lc-fumarate give a significant increase in endurance.

this is something i would utilize over almost any premade preworkout there is. if cost is pohibitive stick to coffee, chocolate, dlpa and lc-fumarate. this alone will significantly increase performance.
 
L-Carnitine: LCLT is what I prefer

L-Glutamine: supposed to be good for a healthy gut, very discussed topic, very high % of people will say its not worth the $$$ and then the same amount will tell you they can't live without it....its good for malnourished, or burn victims, best treated in IV form. There are new products to increase absorption Finnaflex Muscle Fiber and a newer version Sustamine { L-Alanyl L-Glutamine } which is in Ergonine


L-Arginine & L-Ornithine: might want to also add in Lysine if going this ole school route ...Agmatine is what I'd prefer now
 
Pumps on pumps.

But also some gda, and overall health benefits with continued use

It also significantly increases the effect of some pharmaceutical and recreational drugs, particularly things related to neuropathic pain or related activity. I think some studies have showed cannaboids are extremely potentiated by agmatine.
 
So, basically what I'm seeing is, Carnitine and Agmatine are the two to even consider investing money in?
 
there is a lot more stuff but it is more for very advanced supplementation when you are at your limit and need a means of progress but carnitine and agmatine will have immediate noticeable benefits. i strongly recommend lc-fumarate though, most have not tied it in prope doses or at all, it beats othe forms of carnitine significantly.
 
Have a look at Athletix Ergonine.
It has LCLT and Glutamine (with L-Alanine, which makes it absorption much better), and much much more (Creatine, Betaine etc), all in their proper doses.
Thank me latter.
 
Have a look at Athletix Ergonine.
It has LCLT and Glutamine (with L-Alanine, which makes it absorption much better), and much much more (Creatine, Betaine etc), all in their proper doses.
Thank me latter.

Holy crap that looks awesome! I'm just going to try that out. Have you personally tried it?
 
Holy crap that looks awesome! I'm just going to try that out. Have you personally tried it?

A lot of board members use Ergonine to get most of the essentials in. It's a solid product and a favorite here at AM.
 
L-Carnitine - mixed results from scientific research. Personally I'm not impressed. I'd take it if it were ultra cheap as icing on the cake but wouldn't put much faith in results from it alone.

Glutamine - Has been shown to be of benefit only if deficient (vegans, vegetarians with low dairy intake) or during PROLONGED endurance exercise. Not worth the $ imo.

Arginine - I like. Has been proven to increase N.O, bloodflow, decrease BP, and increase anaerobic work capacity.

Ornithine - Not impressed with the research. Possible decrease in fatigue and cortisol but I'm not convinced to any meaningful measure.


If you want cited studies just hit me up. I'm multitasking over here so I left them out.

Arginine improves blood flow yes, but not when supplemented
 
Arginine improves blood flow yes, but not when supplemented

Good call.

I did find a study where blood flow was increased (though a LARGE dose was needed to do so).

Supplementation of 8g of arginine twice daily (16g total) for 6 weeks in persons with intermittent claudication appears to promote blood flow and reduce symptoms associated with increased biomarkers of nitric oxide metabolite (nitrate and urinary cGMP). Functional testing noted that arginine outperformed 80mcg PGE1 in improving walking distance and pain-free walking distance, and improved VAS scores for symptoms.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 1998 Nov;32(5):1336-44.
Restoring vascular nitric oxide formation by L-arginine improves the symptoms of intermittent claudication in patients with peripheral arterial occlusive disease.
 
Holy crap that looks awesome! I'm just going to try that out. Have you personally tried it?

Yeah, I use it daily, it's a staple.
It can't be beaten on ingredients, doses, not even on price.
Definitely a favourite here for a reason.
 
Good call.

I did find a study where blood flow was increased (though a LARGE dose was needed to do so).

Supplementation of 8g of arginine twice daily (16g total) for 6 weeks in persons with intermittent claudication appears to promote blood flow and reduce symptoms associated with increased biomarkers of nitric oxide metabolite (nitrate and urinary cGMP). Functional testing noted that arginine outperformed 80mcg PGE1 in improving walking distance and pain-free walking distance, and improved VAS scores for symptoms.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 1998 Nov;32(5):1336-44.
Restoring vascular nitric oxide formation by L-arginine improves the symptoms of intermittent claudication in patients with peripheral arterial occlusive disease.

The real question is does it work in healthy people, not those you might have an issue with NO because then the story changes.
 
Ergonine is found at athletixsports.com and ships same day for 0.99 !

"driven" to save 10% and also tiered pricing and more

Under $1/day for a lot of solid additions to help you reach your goals and FYI tastes amazing too.
 
The real question is does it work in healthy people, not those you might have an issue with NO because then the story changes.

Agreed.
 

I realise I come across far more blunt than I intend, so please dont take it as though im attacking (if you do) :D

Im the same with rat studies. Useful for determining potential MOAs but they need further human testing before any sort of claim can be made. Have a very important place in research, but limitations are vast enough that a direct carry over shouldnt be claimed
 
I realise I come across far more blunt than I intend, so please dont take it as though im attacking (if you do) :D

Im the same with rat studies. Useful for determining potential MOAs but they need further human testing before any sort of claim can be made. Have a very important place in research, but limitations are vast enough that a direct carry over shouldnt be claimed

Not at all man. I don't get offended easily : )

And I appreciate the criticism, knowing that its coming from the right place. Its good to have multiple individuals looking at things from different angles so we can extrapolate useful data/information for the masses on the board.
 
I realise I come across far more blunt than I intend, so please dont take it as though im attacking (if you do) :D

Im the same with rat studies. Useful for determining potential MOAs but they need further human testing before any sort of claim can be made. Have a very important place in research, but limitations are vast enough that a direct carry over shouldnt be claimed

Completely agree and good call on being cautious about the sick or older subject studies. I've seen people post those several times. It doesn't mean that something won't work in healthy individuals, but that isn't what they are showing.
 
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