Deca dick

[Rozyy]

Running 1000 test and 500 deca and couldn’t get it up when it was sexy time yesterday. I’ve ran this cycle before and had no issues but yesterday was a mess. Should I try caber or back off the deca to maybe 300?

 

[bigbeaph]

Running 1000 test and 500 deca and couldn’t get it up when it was sexy time yesterday. I’ve ran this cycle before and had no issues but yesterday was a mess. Should I try caber or back off the deca to maybe 300?

This can be caused by so many things. Most of the time ED has physiological cause. I wouldnt worry too much after 1 failure... and that much deca while on a gram of test shouldnt be too much either. Get some blood work and check estrogen and prolactin....prolactin will only get too high if you let estrogen go unchecked. If you get all that worked out hcg might be a good maintenance option as well as a pde5 inhibitor..

But get some blood drawn so you know what's going on for sure - before you start popping caber and such.

 

[Rozyy]

This can be caused by so many things. Most of the time ED has physiological cause. I wouldnt worry too much after 1 failure... and that much deca while on a gram of test shouldnt be too much either. Get some blood work and check estrogen and prolactin....prolactin will only get too high if you let estrogen go unchecked. If you get all that worked out hcg might be a good maintenance option as well as a pde5 inhibitor..

But get some blood drawn so you know what's going on for sure - before you start popping caber and such.

got it thank you. Was really hoping there would be a more immediate relief but I’d rather wait than screw myself up too bad!

 

[bigbeaph]

got it thank you. Was really hoping there would be a more immediate relief but I’d rather wait than screw myself up too bad!

Yea brother....we all have wanted that! Some guys will tell you to eat a caber. And I'm not saying they are wrong - but that's really only going to be the "fix" if you let your estrogen get too high and in turn prolactin has spiked. Most guys dont have n issue on 500 deca. I have a crazy hard time controlling estrogen on a gram of test. Maybe your problem is as easy as that?

Bottom line is a ton of us have had this issue. And it's about the worst possible deal in my book - of course you want a quick fix. Throwing a little cialis at the problem might help BUTyou still want to get those bloods. Plus, once you figure it out that'll give you more control in the future.

 

[Rozyy]

Yea brother....we all have wanted that! Some guys will tell you to eat a caber. And I'm not saying they are wrong - but that's really only going to be the "fix" if you let your estrogen get too high and in turn prolactin has spiked. Most guys dont have n issue on 500 deca. I have a crazy hard time controlling estrogen on a gram of test. Maybe your problem is as easy as that?

Bottom line is a ton of us have had this issue. And it's about the worst possible deal in my book - of course you want a quick fix. Throwing a little cialis at the problem might help BUTyou still want to get those bloods. Plus, once you figure it out that'll give you more control in the future.

All makes complete sense. Would you say 750 test 500 deca would be better or maybe even 500/500?

 

[ilkogermanov]

Hi, I startedvusing only recently, but dis a lot if digging before I took my first shot. You should read on Proviron. It's the steroid wingman. I don't knowif it will work in your case, because of the deca test combo tho. Watch the Deca dick video at yputube by The Anabolic doc. Good luck to you and your little friend!

 

[bigbeaph]

All makes complete sense. Would you say 750 test 500 deca would be better or maybe even 500/500?

I havent tried a legit cycle with that stack so I really cant say. There is a lot of opinions though if you look around. I was really just saying a gram of test is a big dose.

 

[Zvch]

My first course of action would be Caber/Prami + Arimidex + Viagra/Cialis. But as was stated above, if prolactin is high, estrogen probably is too. If one of these two or both are the culprit and you haven’t had any type of gyno symptoms yet, it should be easy to get under control quickly. I would low dose both the dopamine agonist and the AI every day until the problem subsides.

A lot of people think that because Deca doesn’t convert into estrogen they don’t need to account for it in their AI protocol which isn’t the case. Estrogen can increase by other pathways and Test + Deca is not a 1 + 1 = 2 situation. It’s more than that.

I would agree that Proviron would also be really beneficial with any Nandrolone cycle or alongside anything that converts to estrogen as well. A DHT like that will help to keep estrogen and prolactin in check.

Deca also converts into something called DHN which is the hydrogenated form of Nandrolone. Other Nandrolones don’t do this. This makes the drug able to bind to DHT receptors that play a role in achieving erection - the location of a lot of which are on the penis. Another reason Proviron might work is that some excess DHT if you’re lucky may bind to these stronger than Deca.

Some guys never have a problem with this, but the DHN issue is something that is impossible to avoid and a lot of times is the culprit of Deca Dick. Deca is a drug I would never use for this reason. There are so many better alternatives.

 

[Rozyy]

My first course of action would be Caber/Prami + Arimidex + Viagra/Cialis. But as was stated above, if prolactin is high, estrogen probably is too. If one of these two or both are the culprit and you haven’t had any type of gyno symptoms yet, it should be easy to get under control quickly. I would low dose both the dopamine agonist and the AI every day until the problem subsides.

A lot of people think that because Deca doesn’t convert into estrogen they don’t need to account for it in their AI protocol which isn’t the case. Estrogen can increase by other pathways and Test + Deca is not a 1 + 1 = 2 situation. It’s more than that.

I would agree that Proviron would also be really beneficial with any Nandrolone cycle or alongside anything that converts to estrogen as well. A DHT like that will help to keep estrogen and prolactin in check.

Deca also converts into something called DHN which is the hydrogenated form of Nandrolone. Other Nandrolones don’t do this. This makes the drug able to bind to DHT receptors that play a role in achieving erection - the location of a lot of which are on the penis. Another reason Proviron might work is that some excess DHT if you’re lucky may bind to these stronger than Deca.

Some guys never have a problem with this, but the DHN issue is something that is impossible to avoid and a lot of times is the culprit of Deca Dick. Deca is a drug I would never use for this reason. There are so many better alternatives.

very informative thank you so much! What would you recommend as an alternative for deca then?

 

[Zvch]

very informative thank you so much! What would you recommend as an alternative for deca then?

EQ is probably the most popular alternative if we’re talking injectables. In terms of strength anabolically, Deca is only 2-3 times stronger than testosterone. That puts EQ right on the same level. A lot of guys substitute one for the other. Visually they’re going to have a similar effect, EQ probably being slightly leaner. EQ also only converts to estrogen at half the rate of testosterone making it similar in that respect as well.

 

[Rozyy]

EQ is probably the most popular alternative if we’re talking injectables. In terms of strength anabolically, Deca is only 2-3 times stronger than testosterone. That puts EQ right on the same level. A lot of guys substitute one for the other. Visually they’re going to have a similar effect, EQ probably being slightly leaner. EQ also only converts to estrogen at half the rate of testosterone making it similar in that respect as well.

that’s to be run at rather high doses correct? Around 600-1000?

 

[Zvch]

that’s to be run at rather high doses correct? Around 600-1000?

600-800 would probably be plenty depending on how much test you’re using and your goals. 400mg seems to be the bare minimum dose.

 

[bigbeaph]

600-800 would probably be plenty depending on how much test you’re using and your goals. 400mg seems to be the bare minimum dose.

750 gave me unmanageable bp issues. When I run it again I'm betting 4-500 would be plenty without causing some heavy sides.

 

[Mathb33]

Everything was well explain above... I’ll just mention for your future runs you should run NPP, the faster water. Deca is garbage and it was well explained above what kind of effects it can have due to certain conversion it has. Deca can often Lead to erectile problems, it’s a lot harder to manage water retention and for some it’s just not manageable at all, BP can be an issue because of this too etc etc. NPP has all deca positive sides (the gains) but none of the above negative sides.

 

[Rozyy]

Everything was well explain above... I’ll just mention for your future runs you should run NPP, the faster water. Deca is garbage and it was well explained above what kind of effects it can have due to certain conversion it has. Deca can often Lead to erectile problems, it’s a lot harder to manage water retention and for some it’s just not manageable at all, BP can be an issue because of this too etc etc. NPP has all deca positive sides (the gains) but none of the above negative sides.

correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t npp essentially the exact same as deca, it just has a shorter half life?

 

[Mathb33]

correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t npp essentially the exact same as deca, it just has a shorter half life?

Exactly. You will not have "deca dick" and libido issues or water retention or any of these sides with the faster ester because the build up in the body is not the same. That’s why pretty much everyone runs NPP nowdays and not deca

 

[Rozyy]

Exactly. You will not have "deca dick" and libido issues or water retention or any of these sides with the faster ester because the build up in the body is not the same. That’s why pretty much everyone runs NPP nowdays and not deca

im not saying you’re incorrect bc I have no experience with NPP, but could explain how the faster half life will prevent any libido issues?

 

[Matthersby]

Posted from someone way smarter than I.
“
As I mentioned earlier in r/peds, deca dick is not due to prolactin, is not due to estrogen, is not due to progesterone, it isnt because it is 19nor.

1. Nandrolone activates progesterone at 1/20th of the affinity of progesterone, thereby acts as an antagonist in most cases.
2. Nandrolone has Dopamine modulation effect, similar but different to Trenbolone.
3. Nandrolone through reward pathway modulation, can attenuate dopaminergic response.
4. DHT is not a by product of Nandrolone. DHT can be further metabolised to Neurosteroids which have potent antianxiety and antidepressant effect. DHN does have similar metabolites but lack these pharmacology.
5. Nandrolone and testosterone, both exogenously, in studies increase prolactin equally at equal doses (if someone can find this study I looked at awhile ago, would be appreciated).
6. Nandrolone produces enough E1 that can be converted to E2 naturally by the body. Optimal doses to match natural levels would be around 300mg/wk.
7. Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone.
8. Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.
9. DHT antagonises Estrogen in androgenic tissues and other places such as breast tissue. The lack of androgenic stimulation via DHN causes gyno symptoms to occur even with normal estrogen levels (NO it isn’t from progesterone, or prolactin).
10. DHN can displace DHT and can partially activate the androgen receptors in androgenic tissues such as prostate and hair follicles, this can actually reverse prostate hypertrophy and cause hair regrowth.

• The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.
• What is actually causing ‘deca dick’

1. lack of neurosteroid production from DHT
2. lack of penile androgen receptor stimulation AND brain androgen receptor stimulation
3. Dopaminergic response issues

• What is not causing ‘deca dick’

1. not running testosterone or enough testosterone with Nandrolone
2. Progesterone
3. Estrogen
4. Prolactin

So how do we solve this issue? Im against running testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!
run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)
But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as ****, you’ll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to **** 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).
Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).
So if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.”

 

[Matthersby]

But really the bottom line with this confusing, complicated mess is: MOST guys have far less dick problems with npp over deca. Anecdotal user accounts are just easier to navigate than scientific studies.

 

[Mathb33]

im not saying you’re incorrect bc I have no experience with NPP, but could explain how the faster half life will prevent any libido issues?

This is a very very complicated matter that I can’t really explain no. I would have posted the same study as above probably. All I can say is it is pretty common knowledge in the Bodybuilding world that NPP does not have deca sides. Have I ran NPP many many times at high dosages and never had any issues, in fact my libido was higher. Many guys here could report the same thing, minus the boost in libido maybe.

 

[Matthersby]

Matts️NPP

 

[Mathb33]

Im extremely stupid so I can’t scientifically explain why, only tell you that experiences from people all go towards that conclusion!

 

[Matthersby]

After reading that, I’ve come to the conclusion I’m stupid too, and people like that are smart. So I just read 100 threads, buy some npp along with every possible ancillary and dick support drugs, and cross my fingers

 

[CroLifter]

Even though i havent tried either I would personally always choose npp over deca.

Actually thinking of going with test prop my next cycle, might be a better idea because i will be changing the compounds mid cycle.

I like the idea of short esters, only thing that i view as a negative is lower concentration of the substance, ie. you have to pin more volume.

Although with test if i am running a constant base throughout the cycle it really doesnt make difference. But other compounds i definitely would prefer to be short estered.

 

[Rozyy]

Ok so let me get this straight (no pun intended). If I’m going to run the deca since I already have it and have been taking it, it would be best to run deca higher than test, along with something like caber, Cialis and an AI.

 

[CroLifter]

Ok so let me get this straight (no pun intended). If I’m going to run the deca since I already have it and have been taking it, it would be best to run deca higher than test, along with something like caber, Cialis and an AI.

I would personally run those ancillaires as needed. Not fond of an idea of unnecessarily putting more drugs into my body which themselves might be more harmful than steroids.

Ai's have a host of side effects. Caber is a serious drug. I would use only if necessary. Besides, gains will be better with higher estro anyway. And cholesterol too will be better.

Many people say that prolactin can cause gyno only if estrogen is let rampant. In my case that is not the case but i already have small pubertal gyno, so if you dont it first takes high estrogen for tissue to grow.

And the reason for deca dick is very well explained by @Matthersby. In most cases it is not prolactin but the less androgenic DHN displacing the DHT from receptors in the penis. And finasteride will make nandrolone more androgenic, yes, completely opposite situation than with test.

I personally never got anything out of cialis other than redness and gas. If you have no blood flow issues then i cant see how it could help. It doesnt increase libido. I was once so red that the girl (not girlfriend, random girl) freaked out and literally begged me to stop taking it.
Was on 500mg test per week also at the time so was already a bit reddish due to high hematocrit but cialis made me red as a tomato.

But it is a good idea to run it at a low dose if blood pressure is highish.

btw npp having less nandrolone associated sides than deca is like saying that test prop causes less water retention than enanthate. On paper it doesnt make sense, but often what is on paper is not the case in reality. Anecdotal evidence is there.

 

[Matthersby]

I agree with all of this ^
I go primarily off anecdotal.
And I don’t use Prami daily. I’ve never needed to on deca or npp. But I will have all these things on hand no matter what: Prami, p5p/Ldopa, Aromasin or AI of choice,, cialis, Avanafil, and several other things with me at all times. Preparedness is key.

 

[Rozyy]

So then if dhn basically cancels out dht, or at least that’s how it sounds to me, would adding a dht type drug also work to help achieve erections? Something like Masteron perhaps?

 

[Matthersby]

And the short ester thing is just a personal preference since I haven’t really had too bad of sides on either. There were slightly less sides with npp, it’s essentially side free besides a little restlessness and sweating. I just don’t want to wait a month before I’m really noticing the effects of a nandrolone.

 

[Matthersby]

And the short ester thing is just a personal preference since I haven’t really had too bad of sides on either. There were slightly less sides with npp, it’s essentially side free besides a little restlessness and sweating. I just don’t want to wait a month before I’m really noticing the effects of a nandrolone.

 

[Ironpirate]

Even though i havent tried either I would personally always choose npp over deca.

Actually thinking of going with test prop my next cycle, might be a better idea because i will be changing the compounds mid cycle.

I like the idea of short esters, only thing that i view as a negative is lower concentration of the substance, ie. you have to pin more volume.

Although with test if i am running a constant base throughout the cycle it really doesnt make difference. But other compounds i definitely would prefer to be short estered.

I always prefer to use test prop over enanthate. I have fewer sides, i feel the effects faster, and i recover faster. Pinning everyday is the only negative for me.