Dangers of AI abuse amid COVID 19 epidemic

[CroLifter]

Hello,

It has been suspected that testosterone and other AAS have immunosuppressive effect on our immune system hence everyone advised against cycling/blasting during this epidemic,

However, there is another thing we could do other than just cycling off ( which is in my opinion a bad idea if you are already on gear when caught up in this epidemic, imho it is betterto just dial thins down to a TRT dose ) and that is to stop using an AI and let our estrogen run a little higher.

Sex Hormones Determine Immune Response

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Sexual dimorphism in immunity has been described in both arms of immunity, innate and adaptive . Generally testosterone has an immunosuppressive effect while estrogen has an immunoenhancing effect on the immune system. Estrogen has been shown to regulate immune response by impairing negative selection of high affinity auto-reactive B cells, modulating B cell function and leading to Th2 response ed in brain, gut epithelial cells, lymphoid tissue cells as well as immune cells . Estrogen also induces T cell homing by enhancing the expression of CCR5, a homing marker."

More of this in the study.


Generally speaking, our body really does have an amazing way of balancing itself when we throw it out of balance.

Be it dislipidemia, neurotoxicity or immunosuppression, aromatization seems to be largely responsible for negating negative effects testosterone brings,


So here it is guys, yet another reason to avoid an AI during this crisis. If it means dialing our dose down a bit, so be it.

I thought about taking some exemestane today (injected some test today, back on my 180mg a week) as i always feel better after i take it (sharper mentally and much higher libido), but i think i will pass. The negative effects of compounding immunosuppression especially during these times simply aint worth it for me.

 

[BBiceps]

I think it’s very individual and vitamins and a healthy lifestyle is more important. For an example, my wife got infected (she works at a hospital) but our kids and I did not, I’m on 200mg Cyp a week with an AI (1,5mg of Arimidex a week) and I just started Anavar.

 

[CroLifter]

I think it’s very individual and vitamins and a healthy lifestyle is more important. For an example, my wife got infected but our kids and I did not, I’m on 200mg Cyp a week with an AI (1,5mg of Arimidex a week) and I just started Anavar.

Thanks for the comment, there will always be exceptions that is certain


However there is no denying that keeping your estrogen at a good level rather than driving it into the ground will help boost immune system.


Another thing we can do is to use GH secretagogues, they definitely do boost the immune system (via GH pathway)

 

[BBiceps]

Well, either way it’s not good to crash your estro, stable healthy levels is better overall so if you’re used to take an AI I think it’s better to keep it than take it away because it’s what your body is used too.

Primo is supposed to boost your immune system.

 

[thebigt]

add in some invictus to boost immune system...

 

[Mathb33]

I do like the idea to tell people to be safe but the truth is all the studies done that shows anabolic steroids lower immune system were made on ANIMALS. there is 0 evidence that it lowers immune system for the humans if anything it’s the opposite :

here on YouTube the anabolic doc (yes a real doctor that specializes in that department) talks about it around the 7 mins marks and clearly states there’s no evidence to that on humans.

 

[Mathb33]

I respect your knowledge and all the time you put into research but a lot of stuff you mention are studies on rats and animals and you can’t simply go out and say it’s affecting humans the same way.

 

[StarScream66]

Interesting theory.

 

[Alchemist11]

I think it’s very individual and vitamins and a healthy lifestyle is more important. For an example, my wife got infected (she works at a hospital) but our kids and I did not, I’m on 200mg Cyp a week with an AI (1,5mg of Arimidex a week) and I just started Anavar.

Anavar will keep you safe from anything lol

 

[CroLifter]

I respect your knowledge and all the time you put into research but a lot of stuff you mention are studies on rats and animals and you can’t simply go out and say it’s affecting humans the same way.

ya i agree however we are just another animal species and if sth seems to be the case across multiple mammals, it may very well be in humans.

As far aas being suppressive, i can personally atest. I have gotten sick on cycle in early june last year, and i never get sick during that time of the year. Then later in october i had another, much more serious illness (respiratory) and again in january got sick again with a milder flu.

So... has my immune system got shot from cycling? Idk. Maybe?

So since i started the cycle i got sick 3 times in a span of 7 months while i usually didnt got sick at all throughout the year, perhaps 2017 was the last time i got sick prior to that, beginning of the year, mild flu that i was able to overcome without bedrest.

I would say that they are immunosuppressive, yes.

However, there may be some rare exceptions. Anavar and primobolan come to mind and for some reason it seems that anabolically selective steroids may boost the immune system slightly but testosterone is definitely immunosuppressive.

 

[Mathb33]

Truth is whatever you say, the facts remain that to this day, 2020, no doctor could prove that they are immuno suppressive to humans. So whatever crolifter expenrienced in 2019, while abusing AIs and serms out of panick, drawing your own blood 5 times In a month to fix hct that was fine, etc etc, is of 0 value. Let’s talk facts. Facts say it’s unproven. If we want to talk real life experience then 95% of the people who are on cycle will tell you they get sick a lot LESS. do this change when they PCT? Yes. But that’s not what we are talking about here. We are talking about when we are ON.

 

[Mathb33]

Then again I hate to bring all this back up and don’t want to attack you. I just can’t accept some stuff that you publicly write when it’s false. Sorry again for coming.

 

[CroLifter]

I would like that not to be the case (aas being immunosuppressive) but it seems that literature points in that direction.

You and I have differing opinions. Truth is out there, not saying either one of us is right.

The only difference is that I am on the cautious side as i accept the possibility that this stuff could harm our immune system and wanted to present those findings here. Doesnt make me a preacher though.


Btw i know you planned to...have you started tren already?



Also...

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

 

[Mathb33]

I do agree that pointing this out is perfectly fine and is an interesting topic. I would simply have liked if it was stated that these studies weren’t done on humans and if the post wasn’t implying all of this is facts. When doctors say absolutely nothing points towards the direction that AAS are immuno suppressive, it’s hard to believe otherwise.

 

[Mathb33]

Yeah I’m 2 weeks into tren hex. And 3 weeks into EQ

 

[CroLifter]

Yeah I’m 2 weeks into tren hex. And 3 weeks into EQ

I didnt want to call you out or anything...i really have no hard feelings towards anyone here

I just felt that your attitude is different...idk...this stuff affects us a lot as much as we like to think we are tough. I know how a bit of test changes me psychologically, social interactions etc






Back on topic, yes, definitely my blood draws could have had sth to do with the increased frequency of respoiratory infrctions i caught, 2.5 pints of blood in a span of 2 months is a lot.


But as you can see, my last statement reflects even the situation in this thread.

My original post got likes from certain people, then your post calling me out also got likes from other people. Its who we are, we are always going to pick sides, gangs, lines of thinking...we just need to be careful that we are not emotion driven in our decisions.



Anyway, too much rambling. Anyone can look up the info and decide for themselves and act accordingly, whatever that is.

I just feel the need to share when i stumble upon sth interesting and sth that could be of value in a specific situation like this.

 

[Matthersby]

The truth and answers aren’t necessarily conclusive. I’m trying to find the small study that was done showing certain aas were actually effective in protecting immune health from Covid specifically, although the majority of studies seem to suggest supraphysiological doses can be detrimental. All I found was studies seeming to suggest this -
“several common AAS have been shown to adversely influence lymphocyte differentiation and proliferation, antibody production, Natural Killer Cytotoxic activity and the production of certain cytokines, thereby altering the immune reaction. These effects may be profound and long lasting depending on the dosing regime, types or combinations of AAS used and the extent and duration of AAS abuse. Nevertheless, the effects of long term use of supraphysiologic doses of AAS on the immune system remain uncertain”.

 

[Alchemist11]

Sooo, basically, it all comes down to individual response to gear...

 

[jrock645]

The biggest thing im gonna say is that AAS is commonly given to and was developed specifically for cancer and aids patients. I find it very hard to believe that these drugs would still be the standard for helping to treat these disease states if they were in fact so detrimental to the immune system.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah I’m 2 weeks into tren hex. And 3 weeks into EQ

You got the Tren BA Bro?
LOL.

 

[Mathb33]

You got the Tren BA Bro?
LOL.

 

[CroLifter]

Bad attitude, insomnia, sweating profusely, shortness of breath, irritability, yelling at idiots in traffic, coughing like no other and explaining your wife you accidentally inhaled your own saliva...

Lots of fun things to come

 

[Matthersby]

Bad attitude, insomnia, sweating profusely, shortness of breath, irritability, yelling at idiots in traffic, coughing like no other and explaining your wife you accidentally inhaled your own saliva...

Lots of fun things to come

I think It’s wildly over-rated. I’m sure there’s plenty of people running it either too high, don’t have the temperament for it, or they simply exaggerate the sides they’re experiencing, but 300-350 week Tren A, and I’ve experienced ONLY mild sweats at night (on a par with what 600mg npp/week would cause me) and noteworthy irritability. I say this confidently because I personally have all the business in the world using drugs that will make me far more aggressive. Because I’m stable and mild mannered and have yet to get in an altercation or damage a relationship due to any steroid use. As Math and I have experimented, both with Ace and Hex, from what we’ve noticed, splitting all your other injectables into your injection schedule with Tren, mixing them in the syringe completely, and injecting at over half the speed will, for us, eliminate most chances of that initial cough (this could still happen at higher doses or with a needle only filled with Tren from my experience this last month). I’ve only noticed very very slight breathing issues like a very mild shortness of breath at the 2/3 week mark, nothing that’s caused any cough. Anyone and everyone will respond differently but these precautions with reasonable dosage, for me, has made this 10x more tolerable than I ever thought a Tren cycle would be. I’ve avoided this drug for 8 years and wish I would have used it far more.

 

[Alchemist11]

Bad attitude, insomnia, sweating profusely, shortness of breath, irritability, yelling at idiots in traffic, coughing like no other and explaining your wife you accidentally inhaled your own saliva...

Lots of fun things to come

Well, most of the people don't

I think It’s wildly over-rated. I’m sure there’s plenty of people running it either too high, don’t have the temperament for it, or they simply exaggerate the sides they’re experiencing, but 300-350 week Tren A, and I’ve experienced ONLY mild sweats at night (on a par with what 600mg npp/week would cause me) and noteworthy irritability. I say this confidently because I personally have all the business in the world using drugs that will make me far more aggressive. Because I’m stable and mild mannered and have yet to get in an altercation or damage a relationship due to any steroid use. As Math and I have experimented, both with Ace and Hex, from what we’ve noticed, splitting all your other injectables into your injection schedule with Tren, mixing them in the syringe completely, and injecting at over half the speed will, for us, eliminate most chances of that initial cough (this could still happen at higher doses or with a needle only filled with Tren from my experience this last month). I’ve only noticed very very slight breathing issues like a very mild shortness of breath at the 2/3 week mark, nothing that’s caused any cough. Anyone and everyone will respond differently but these precautions with reasonable dosage, for me, has made this 10x more tolerable than I ever thought a Tren cycle would be. I’ve avoided this drug for 8 years and wish I would have used it far more.

Yup, this.
Had a fear of it, but not one time have I had bad experience with Tren, I even feel really good mood-wise.