Dang

celc5

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I chose my words very very carefully with my questions. I made balanced points on both sides of the discussion.

Deleting posts that have no violation hides member discussion. Why do that? What are you hiding?

Everyone who reads this post can see I'm careful with not making accusations or violating a rule. They'll catch on that my deleted post was worded carefully as well.
 
Whisky

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I am not the letro guy. But I was encouraging discussion about his thread. My post was deleted.
not sure why your keeping on about it bro.

letro guy made a profile purely to make that post, we have no idea if what he said was true. Very few respected members have ever had an issue with MA products so whilst this guy may have been legit he also could just be making it up.

he wasn’t following an optimal gyno protocol anyway so I think him claiming MA letro is the reason for his gyno issues was doubtful purely from that regard.

just don’t see why your making it a big deal ?
 
JKVol

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I am not the letro guy. But I was encouraging discussion about his thread. My post was deleted.
I mean... if you have had one thread delete I probably would leave it alone and let the two people involved work it out. If the customer was ripped off then I agree it’s news worthy on here but it sounds more like a misunderstanding.
 
celc5

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I dont feel that I made a big deal about it at all. There were a few unanswered questions that I thought maybe I missed the answer to because the thread was deleted. So I brought it back up.

I initially went to MA forum to update myself before making a purchase. I've been a happy customer. But it appeared from my perspective that neither owner nor rep was willing to iron things out. "Bro let's figure this out and we'll make sure u are happy."

Nothing about the post that I saw insinuated that he was making things up. If so, a rep or MA could have said "dude, I answered ur emails 3 times and it was resolved" Thats a different story that was not part of thread that I saw.
 

Mike Arnold

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I dont feel that I made a big deal about it at all. There were a few unanswered questions that I thought maybe I missed the answer to because the thread was deleted. So I brought it back up.

I initially went to MA forum to update myself before making a purchase. I've been a happy customer. But it appeared from my perspective that neither owner nor rep was willing to iron things out. "Bro let's figure this out and we'll make sure u are happy."

Nothing about the post that I saw insinuated that he was making things up. If so, a rep or MA could have said "dude, I answered ur emails 3 times and it was resolved" Thats a different story that was not part of thread that I saw.
I was told about this thread earlier. First of all, let me start out by saying that the "letro guy" communicated with me directly, via phone, and left a happy customer. It would have been nice if he had come back in here and posted an update, but I don't think he wanted to do that...for the reasons stated below. With that said, here is what happened.

First of all, I do not think this man was fraudulently attempting to discredit me. Rather, I think he believed what he was saying, but was simply incorrect. Unfortunately, not everyone who uses an AI knows what to expect, nor do they have a full understanding of what gyno is, how it develops, etc. For example, I've encounterd guys (not customers, but previous clients when I was coaching) who thought they had gyno because they could squeeze a teeny-tiny bit of clear fluid out of their nipples mid-cycle. One gentleman I dealt with swore up and down over the phone that he had gyno and that his AI was not working (this was 15 or so years ago). I asked for pictures and upon veiwing them, I could see absoutely no gyno whatsoever (still, gyno isn't always easily visible through photos, especially when the person isn't very lean and it is still in the beginning stages), so I asked to see him in person...which I did a few weeks later.

As it turned out, he did not have gyno at all, but because he was new to AAS and paranoid about developing gyno (like many beginners), he started squeezing his nipples to check if milk would come out (depite having zero outwardly visible signs of gyno). So, he started squeezing his nipples so hard that he made a teeny-tiny bit of clear fluid come out. In reality, any man, if he squeezes his nipples hard enough, can make a very tiny amount of clear fluid come out simply because there are ducts in that area. That fluid isn't milk production, but rather, lymph fluid. After exlpaining to him what was going on, he felt better and never developed any gyno issues.

As another example of PED misinterpretation, many of us probably know at least a few first-time insulin users who have made incorrect assumptions regarding their post-injection BG levels. There was a guy on the boards a few years back who had just used insulin for the first time (the previous night) and thought he was going into severe hypoglycemia because he felt a little shaky. As it turns out, after gathering all relevant info, not only did he not experience hypoglycemia, but it was extremely likely that he had experienced significant hyperglycemia (note: hyperglycemia can have some symptoms similar to hypoglycemia, which can often be difficult for inexperinced and/or ignorant users to differentiate from). In short, he had injected ONLY 3 iu of Humulin-R the night before training, followed by the consumption of 100+ grams of dextrose. After feeling slightly "off" after about 20-30 minutes (he never consumed dextrose before), he assumed it was due to his BG levels getting too low, so he consumed another 50 grams of dextrose. At that point he felt pretty shaky and pounded ANOTHER 100 grams of dextrose on top of that! Obviously, that made him feel even worse, but he believed that he had consumed enough carbs to keep him out of the danger zone...and within a few hours he started feeling better. The following day he came on the board and told us how he had gone into a hypoglycemic state. In reality, his BG levels were probably through the roof, which will make anyone feel shaky and crappy! After I did some information gathering and presented him with a more accurate outlook, he realized his error and moved on.

I believe we were dealing with a similar situation here...and I'll tell you why. Aside from the fact that I had test results from that batch of letro (if anyone wants a copy, just ask me when you place an order and I'll include them with your pack) and that not one single customer had complained, he revealed a few things to me that made me realize he just didn't know what was going on.

First of all, he had only used an AI one time prior, which he said he received from a friend. That, In addition to several other things that he said, led me to believe that this was only his 2nd cycle. Anyway, after telling me that he still had some "hard lumps" (not soft swelling) underneath his nipples (which implies glandular formation, not the intial water retention that accompanies glandular growth), I told him that MA Research products are for in vitro use only and that I would be more than happy to send him another bottle of whatever AI he wanted (just because I want my customers to be happy...even if someone happens to be incorrect).

He asked about Ralox (which I knew was great through testing, personal research, very positive customer feedback and the simple fact that ralox is yellow and will always have a yellow color when mixed in liquid), so I sent him a bottle. As many of you know, ralox is highly effective and now considered the preferred treatment for this issue. MA Research has never received anything but awesome reviews on ralox...and for good reason...because it is nearly 100% pure and either properly or slightly over-dosed. 2 weeks after he initiated ralox research, he contacted me again and asked when it should start working. He told me he had been using it for 2 weeks and had seen no results and was worried it was fake. This told me a few very important things:

1.) He was not using ralox for its intended purpose--in vitro research.

2.) He either had no gyno at all, but was simply paranoid (like the guy I described earlier), or...

3.) The most likely scenario: He had already formed glandular tissue, which never goes away. Glandular tissue can be shrunk to the point where it might seem barely visible (if it isn't too large to begin with), but actual tissue build-up cannot be eliminated through hormonal intervention...at least not to any significant degree. Now, water retention, which precedes glandular formation and makes up a significant portion of the overall size of one's gyno during it's intial stages (when estrogen is high), can be eliminated. This will reduce the overall size of one's gyno, but any fully matured glandular tissue will remain. Once glands have formed, surgery is the only viable option for getting rid of them (although many guys can avoid this if they don't let the problem get worse). Anyway, after speaking with this man extensively over multiple phone conversations, I rightly came to the conlcusion that what happened is as follows...

He likely started his 2nd cycle without an AI on-hand, developed gyno part-way through, then went on Letro. When the lumps did not completely go away, he automatically assumed the letro was bad. Then, when he received the ralox and had the same experience, I knew that the letro had been doing its job all along, which is why he noticed no additional results. Had the letro been fake, he would have still been holding a lot of water around and inside the glands themselves, which the ralox would have eliminated, thereby drastically reducing the overall size of the gyno. Being that this never happned...and that he specifically told me that he didn't have any swelling, but only hard, tiny hard lumps, I knew that the letro wasn't the problem, but rather, that his interpretation of events was the primary issue.

I explained all of this to him and he just listened. In the end, I heard no more complaints from him. Like I said above, I don't believe his post was the result of dishonest, malicious intent, but that he was just inexperienced and lacked the education necessary for properly interprating the data. Any experienced ear (such as myself or many other guys on this board), after speaking with him at depth, would have come to the same conclusion.

Anyway, I figured I would get in here and let you guys know what happened. I haven't been on the boards for a while, but I'm going to start posting again. It's good to be back.
 
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Joint Fracture

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Greetings. Is the company web site shut down? I only get a "forbidden" error message.
 
Renew1

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Thanks. I was specifically asking about the supplement website.
You are welcome.
This thread was regarding MAR. So unless you specify, the "company website" would be assumed to be MAR.

Maybe Mike will see this and respond.
 

Joint Fracture

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Don't know what the issue was, but the site is coming up fine for me now.
Thank you,

-JF
 

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