Cycle setup/ blood work advice

[WeakerNU]

Hello everyone Been lurking on the forum for a while talked with a few people on here every once in a while. Would appreciate the help of some of the experienced guys on here. Thank you ahead of time.
So setting up for first cycle advice wanted!
Been working consistently for 4-5 years.
175-80 pounds
Maybe 15 % body fat not the best at the eyeball test. Maybe I will do before and after pics not sure yet. Also thinking of using test Prop since it will be in and out of system faster maybe easier to find out if I need a AI or not. Don’t mind injecting everyday if this will help with keeping estrogen down.
So question one will test P everyday keep estrogen down more than test c?
So thinking starting
Wk-1 175mg prop - 25 a day
If good
WK-2 245mg prop 35 a day
WK-3 350 mg prop 50 a day
Wk-4-10 350mg prop
Last 4 weeks 25-50 mg oxandrolone

if there is literally no difference between prop and C I’ll go test C

@Smont
@BBiceps
@Hyde

 

[Smont]

If you really don't mind pinning every day then I don't see a problem, I'd probably start higher then 175 as that's just a trt dose, honestly I'd just do 50 every day from the beginning but you could do the same by pinning 50 daily of cyp or 100 EOD the difference is the prop will be noticable a little Sooner but overall I'd say it's gonna be close enough that I would pin cyp EOD instead. You may even find that once testosterone reaches peak concentrations you can get away with just one or two pins a week.
I still prefer more frequent

 

[Smont]

What have you ran in the past?

 

[WeakerNU]

I’m 34 haven’t ran anything since I was in high school all orals from friends granite that was before the ban but who knows what I was running really.

 

[match]

I'm no expert here, but what is your plan for PCT?

 

[Hyde]

I like the escalation because you won’t be shut off day 1, so that 175mg will get added to your endogenous test initially while you shut down, and it lets you get a bit more of a feel. I might also do something like ~300/wk that week 3 while you feel it out, because 250-350 is a solid difference for me and this is essentially a learning run.

You’re going to get similar results with 300-350, cyp or prop, ramp or no ramp, but if you don’t mind the daily pinning I think your plan is a solid logical way to learn test for yourself.

I think prop is ideal if you want to explore different doses and to spend less time suppressed if you intend to PCT. You should expect some extra PIP with prop.

If you go cyp, don’t waste your time on the ramp. The ester causes a ramp in dosage the first month naturally.

 

[WeakerNU]

I'm no expert here, but what is your plan for PCT?

PCT won’t be a problem I currently have nolva and clomid from a suppler AM doesn’t indorse anymore ma but will also get more from MA to be safe along with aromasin

6 weeks 25nolva 50 clomid
Maybe different if someone pushes for more
50-50

 

[WeakerNU]

There is a small chance very small I may cruise around 150mg for a while and do another small cycle. My natural test has been low for a long time 370-400. I will get bloods before I start though see where I’m at

 

[Hyde]

There is a small chance very small I may cruise around 150mg for a while and do another small cycle. My natural test has been low for a long time 370-400. I will get bloods before I start though see where I’m at

Get a CMP, CBC, lipids in addition to your estradiol, total test, LH & FSH.

Maybe a cheaper thyroid panel or at least TSH. That’s more for comparisons later, but sometimes you can get it in a package for a nominal difference in price.

 

[BBiceps]

I would do Test C because I hate pinning but Test P is probably better because it hit a little faster especially since you’re doing 10 weeks but I would do 350mg all way through. EOD dosing is fine unless you love pinning and have to pin everyday, I don’t think it matters for E.

I would start the Var earlier, maybe from week 2 to a total of 8 weeks.

I would do Nolva&Clomid @25mg of each for 6-8 weeks. From my experience it’s no need to go over 25mg of Clomid, I used to take my Test from 400-500 to 900-1100 from 25mg over 8 weeks for an example.

 

[Smont]

I’m 34 haven’t ran anything since I was in high school all orals from friends granite that was before the ban but who knows what I was running really.

In that case I'd get test c and just run with that. Maybe still add a oral at the end.

As far as pct and your natural test being in the 300's, I'd say it's highly unlikely pct is going to work for you

 

[WeakerNU]

meaning you think this will completely destroy what’s left of my natural test?

 

[WeakerNU]

Or that it will be hard to hold added muscle? Cause I do feel right now adding muscle in general is hard last couple years

 

[Hyde]

Or that it will be hard to hold added muscle? Cause I do feel right now adding muscle in general is hard last couple years

PCT is 50/50. Odds are usually you get most of it back, but the older you get, more you cycle or if you use 19-nors it seems harder to come back from.

I highly suspect the SERMs will take you way over 300ng/dl levels, but when you discontinue if you draw bloods 8 weeks after stopping them you shouldn’t expect to be over that 300ish again.

So if test is still lower, it’s going to be harder to maintain your new tissue longterm.

I would do the PCT and just see how it shakes out.

In general though, you’ll never hold more tissue than your natural limit and levels can support, longterm, even with the training stimulus being solid.

Also also, as mentioned by others there’s no need to take Clomid over 25mg. Less sides and all of the results, and with Tamoxifen at 20-25mg also you’re going to recover fine most likely. That’s plenty of SERM.

 

[WeakerNU]

I guess it’s not that big of a deal either way if I can PCT and end up around 400 again cool. If lower end 300 I’m gonna end up on replacement anyway sooner or later at this rate.

 

[WeakerNU]

Get a CMP, CBC, lipids in addition to your estradiol, total test, LH & FSH.

Maybe a cheaper thyroid panel or at least TSH. That’s more for comparisons later, but sometimes you can get it in a package for a nominal difference in price.

So I got blood work the other day see how it comes back. I’ll update you guys. Not sure if I should start a different thread about it? But if it comes back below? 350 would you guys just go see a doc about trt? Or would u cycle for a while and do it later when fully shut down?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

So I got blood work the other day see how it comes back. I’ll update you guys. Not sure if I should start a different thread about it? But if it comes back below? 350 would you guys just go see a doc about trt? Or would u cycle for a while and do it later when fully shut down?

Might as well just continue this thread and update the title or heading.

If you're already at 300ng level, I vote for cycle, let it go low, go see Urologist or TRT specialist and get a Test C 200 script (after doing your own blood work prior to make sure it's clear).. Cycles go way better and holding tissue easier when you can just regulate the test level or base.

Just my two cents.

 

[WeakerNU]

Might as well just continue this thread and update the title or heading.

If you're already at 300ng level, I vote for cycle, let it go low, go see Urologist or TRT specialist and get a Test C 200 script (after doing your own blood work prior to make sure it's clear).. Cycles go way better and holding tissue easier when you can just regulate the test level or base.

Just my two cents.

Not sure how to change heading? See if I can figure it out

 

[Hyde]

So I got blood work the other day see how it comes back. I’ll update you guys. Not sure if I should start a different thread about it? But if it comes back below? 350 would you guys just go see a doc about trt? Or would u cycle for a while and do it later when fully shut down?

Not necessarily. I mean do you want to be on actual TRT yet?

You might be able to have decent levels just by losing a bit more bodyfat, improving lifestyle factors like sleep & diet, adding some minerals. And if you are open to using something like Clomid for HRT that could be an option too for a long time.

I would do your cycle, run your PCT, see what you can get with the SERM therapy. I mean maybe you will cycle and become an anabaholic and just want to blast and cruise for a while - even that actually isn’t a great time to get on proper TRT. I have been blast/cruise for 2 years now. I believe my cruises are very conservative, but it’s all still built around my competitive efforts. I am not in a position to be timing clean bloodwork on a doctor’s schedule to keep a TRT script, and I don’t personally need help interpreting my bloods or managing my general health.

Let’s see what they say first, but my initial reaction is not to make big commitments hastily. I didn’t stop PCT’ing and start cruising until I was done having kids and very sure of what I wanted.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Not necessarily. I mean do you want to be on actual TRT yet?

You might be able to have decent levels just by losing a bit more bodyfat, improving lifestyle factors like sleep & diet, adding some minerals. And if you are open to using something like Clomid for HRT that could be an option too for a long time.

I would do your cycle, run your PCT, see what you can get with the SERM therapy. I mean maybe you will cycle and become an anabaholic and just want to blast and cruise for a while - even that actually isn’t a great time to get on proper TRT. I have been blast/cruise for 2 years now. I believe my cruises are very conservative, but it’s all still built around my competitive efforts. I am not in a position to be timing clean bloodwork on a doctor’s schedule to keep a TRT script, and I don’t personally need help interpreting my bloods or managing my general health.

Let’s see what they say first, but my initial reaction is not to make big commitments hastily. I didn’t stop PCT’ing and start cruising until I was done having kids and very sure of what I wanted.

True to all that.. note about TRT once on RX script its only two blood tests first year with Urologist, might be only annual after that. I just like having 6-months of pharma grade Test Cyp for $20 insurance copay.. But it's about life timing and goals, when to go TRT maybe he could improve with SERM therapy too..

OP what's your age and did you already have kiddos? Sorry if I missed that.

My two cents comment assume you are past certain age/life markers and if already low T + cycling might as well get a RX for test base. Nevertheless, not a light decision to pin forever.

 

[WeakerNU]

Yeah I’m 34 2 kids actually we were blessed to have them. Just had my second Christmas Eve actually. Yeah I’ve heard people use dose clomid for hrt heard people take crap about it. Not sure what to think really. I could try it out post cycle see how it goes

 

[WeakerNU]

So for starting trt or not at 34 if it would help me feel better in general I’m all about quality of life. I am very busy between working construction and a family and gym time. Cycling would be mostly for me don’t really care what others think. Always tell myself I want to be better this year than last I know this can’t happen forever. Gym time is my time and something I enjoy so not make it a little more interesting. Now I’m rambling anyway I’ll let u guys know what the labs are when they come in thanks again!

 

[WeakerNU]

Not necessarily. I mean do you want to be on actual TRT yet?

You might be able to have decent levels just by losing a bit more bodyfat, improving lifestyle factors like sleep & diet, adding some minerals. And if you are open to using something like Clomid for HRT that could be an option too for a long time.

I would do your cycle, run your PCT, see what you can get with the SERM therapy. I mean maybe you will cycle and become an anabaholic and just want to blast and cruise for a while - even that actually isn’t a great time to get on proper TRT. I have been blast/cruise for 2 years now. I believe my cruises are very conservative, but it’s all still built around my competitive efforts. I am not in a position to be timing clean bloodwork on a doctor’s schedule to keep a TRT script, and I don’t personally need help interpreting my bloods or managing my general health.

Let’s see what they say first, but my initial reaction is not to make big commitments hastily. I didn’t stop PCT’ing and start cruising until I was done having kids and very sure of what I wanted.

What are the dosing you have heard for people using clomid therapy? Thanks I’ll have to look into this

 

[Hyde]

What are the dosing you have heard for people using clomid therapy? Thanks I’ll have to look into this

Google the PubMed, but I believe something to the effect of 25mg daily for some months then tapering to 25mg EOD and see what sticks. Some doctors use 50mg for a period but that has anecdotally proven to be overkill with a higher incidence of not feeling as well.

Doctors will prescribe it for you too often if you ask for it, I mean as HRT and before trying exogenous testosterone, if you want pharmaceutical grade and doctor supervision.

I think most people should work with a doctor. I will too eventually, because you have no ideas the heavy metals and such you’re putting into your body with UGL gear. It’s not a good health-conscious option longterm, self-administering.

 

[WeakerNU]

Got another question my friends how are you guys heating vials after shipping in this cold weather just under a hot water in sink? And shake them? Does this need done every time or one time and done?

 

[TastesLike40s]

Got another question my friends how are you guys heating vials after shipping in this cold weather just under a hot water in sink? And shake them? Does this need done every time or one time and done?

Use warm water only, if warm enough and still look flaky then use hot. These ampoules could break from sudden temperature change

*edited : didnt read thats a vial, i dont know exactly, but i think same applies

 

[BBiceps]

Got another question my friends how are you guys heating vials after shipping in this cold weather just under a hot water in sink? And shake them? Does this need done every time or one time and done?

I would only bother to heat it if it’s crashed, otherwise just keep them in room temperature and they should be fine.

 

[WeakerNU]

So if the test is clear color no floaters don’t worry check. Also I know this has been talked about before sorry guys. What the consensus on nolva a couple days a week 2x 25mg a week. (Maresearch for PCT and AI) For first 4-6 weeks before blood work to see what estrogen comes back at? Obviously like everyone else want to avoid gyno at all cost. Or am I being overly paranoid?

 

[Hyde]

So if the test is clear color no floaters don’t worry check. Also I know this has been talked about before sorry guys. What the consensus on nolva a couple days a week 2x 25mg a week. (Maresearch for PCT and AI) For first 4-6 weeks before blood work to see what estrogen comes back at? Obviously like everyone else want to avoid gyno at all cost. Or am I being overly paranoid?

If you are going to use Nolva as a PCT SERM, take it nightly.

I would not begin an AI unless I was getting symptoms of gyno onset or retaining lots of water, or another sign of overly high estrogen. If you mean in PCT, if you are using Nolva you probably won’t want to use any AI because you will have low testosterone initially and won’t want to crash your limited estrogen you can get from the low test, and the Nolva will be protecting against gyno then anyway.

 

[WeakerNU]

If you are going to use Nolva as a PCT SERM, take it nightly.

I would not begin an AI unless I was getting symptoms of gyno onset or retaining lots of water, or another sign of overly high estrogen. If you mean in PCT, if you are using Nolva you probably won’t want to use any AI because you will have low testosterone initially and won’t want to crash your limited estrogen you can get from the low test, and the Nolva will be protecting against gyno then anyway.

Sorry I didn’t explain well. I mean week 1 shot 1 take nolva one time Monday and 1 time Thursday 20 mg. Since half life is long would it be worth a little extra protection (gyno protection) until I can get blood work week 4-6 on cycle to see were my estrogen is at? Does that make sense?

 

[WeakerNU]

Also do you look for retaining water in the face? Sorry for all the question just want to have a good handle and I am for sure going to do a log

 

[Hyde]

Sorry I didn’t explain well. I mean week 1 shot 1 take nolva one time Monday and 1 time Thursday 20 mg. Since half life is long would it be worth a little extra protection (gyno protection) until I can get blood work week 4-6 on cycle to see were my estrogen is at? Does that make sense?

Regardless of half life, that’s not an effective way to use Nolva for gyno control.

It’s also not wise to implement drugs proven to promote blood clots unless you are truly at risk for growing tits.

Also do you look for retaining water in the face? Sorry for all the question just want to have a good handle and I am for sure going to do a log

If you can’t tell by look, comparing scale weight over time can help analyze. If you go up 8lbs in a week, you are really adding a lot of water quickly.

You can also press your hand to your stomach or leg. If there is a color impression for a long moment, you are holding more water. Not saying that is in itself a reason to take an AI, but it can help you assess the overall situation.

Also if you have edema, swelling of the ankles where your socks leave greater lines than before, that’s no ideal.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Regardless of half life, that’s not an effective way to use Nolva for gyno control.

It’s also not wise to implement drugs proven to promote blood clots unless you are truly at risk for growing tits.



If you can’t tell by look, comparing scale weight over time can help analyze. If you go up 8lbs in a week, you are really adding a lot of water quickly.

You can also press your hand to your stomach or leg. If there is a color impression for a long moment, you are holding more water. Not saying that is in itself a reason to take an AI, but it can help you assess the overall situation.

Also if you have edema, swelling of the ankles where your socks leave greater lines than before, that’s no ideal.

You'll know if you have edema couldn't tie me damn shoes after a week on 50mg of dbol along with 500 test also when I binged at Christmas after the cut lol

 

[WeakerNU]

Blood work came back everything looks good within ranges.
Total test is 404
Free is 53.6
Shgb is 32
Estrodial will be coming in a couple days I think

 

[WeakerNU]

Free is on the bottom range maybe I can pick up some boron for pct

 

[WeakerNU]

Another question if I have to use a AI how long after dosing would you expect to feel relief from gyno itching burning swelling? I wouldn’t want to double dose to early. 24 hours?

 

[WeakerNU]

Same for nolva?thanks for All the info and support guys seriously

 

[Hyde]

It can take a couple days with the AI. Several usually with SERMs.

 

[WeakerNU]

It can take a couple days with the AI. Several usually with SERMs.

Ahhh I see that’s why people end up taking to much thinking it’s not working. Good thing I asked

 

[bill86]

What are the dosing you have heard for people using clomid therapy? Thanks I’ll have to look into this

I just got prescribed 25mg ED. I’ve been taking it EOD just because I want to see how it treats me. I plan on bumping up after a few weeks, but I’m only a week and a half in, so.

FWIW, my buddy was on 25mg ED and took his test from around 300 to 700, now he’s down to 25mg M/W/F and is maintaining his levels (at the direction of his doctor). He’s been on it for years and couldn’t really remember if there was any other protocol he followed in between.