Cycle help test & tbol

deadliftqueen

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Hello!! My husband is running a cycle and I would just like to hear some options and what you’ll think about it. He was given this by a “professional” not discrediting his knowledge I just want to make sure he wasn’t bullsh**** him.

-age 23/height 5’10/weight 194/ blood type B pos / goal of cycle “lean bulk” (He has previously ran test p) working out for 6 years.
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Alchemist11

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IMO 16 weeks is way too long, unless he is on TRT (or wants to end up on TRT). And with that low of test dosage with Proviron, I doubt he will need Arimidex. You don't want to cut out all of the estrogen. Anything else is fine.
 

Whisky

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Yeah agree with above on the test dose and estrogen. I like low dose test but still run 350mg and let the orals do the work. I kinda get the 250mg scaling up to 350mg to some extent tho

I like long cycles but I’ve had the snip and have no issue with ending up on trt as I’m 38. At 23 there’s no way I’d want to run a 16 week cycle tbh

tbol can be dosed am and pm. 3 a day is fine obviously but it’s a fucker to remember ime.

50mg dbol - be prepared to drop that dose depending on how he responds. I’ve got mates that bloat up and bp spikes over 30mg. It’s not a crazy dose though.

generally that’s a sensible cycle though, definitely not any stupid doses or anything. You could argue for a gap between the orals but tbol is pretty mild and the supports are solid for the liver.

the estrogen control is overkill imo. Maybe needed when he starts dbol but unless he is really sensitive to test then I doubt he’ll need anything for the first 8 weeks at all. Would drop the DIM - doesn’t do anything.

But these are tweaks, people could have a differing view and not be wrong (there is areas of valid differences in views on some of the more subtle aspects). He’s not been bullshitted into some stupid cycle though imo.
 
New guy

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A couple questions for someone a little wiser than me. Isn't three weeks a little short for pct for a 16 week cycle? And secondly isn't HCG mildly suppressive and inhibits production of LH and FSH? I feel as if that would be counterintuitive during pct especially when the pct is only three weeks. Otherwise looks like a fun cycle!
 

Whisky

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A couple questions for someone a little wiser than me. Isn't three weeks a little short for pct for a 16 week cycle? And secondly isn't HCG mildly suppressive and inhibits production of LH and FSH? I feel as if that would be counterintuitive during pct especially when the pct is only three weeks. Otherwise looks like a fun cycle!
TBH I totally missed the pct protocol. Waiting 3 weeks after last pin to let the Ester clear is fair enough but I’d still want a 5 week pct from there myself.

I also think hcg is better ultilised at the start of pct (or a week before it starts more so) - wouldn’t run 3,000 a week for three weeks.

id run hcg at 5,000 or 10,000 in the 1-2 weeks pre pct myself.
 

Brain5ick

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Hello!! My husband is running a cycle and I would just like to hear some options and what you’ll think about it. He was given this by a “professional” not discrediting his knowledge I just want to make sure he wasn’t bullsh**** him.

-age 23/height 5’10/weight 194/ blood type B pos / goal of cycle “lean bulk” (He has previously ran test p) working out for 6 years.
View attachment 193297View attachment 193298
I can’t figure out several things here. One being why only 250mg test cyp for 8 weeks then switch to test E at 350mg for another 8? He’s gonna be shut down at this point just from being on this long, so if you want to slowly go up in dose (I’m guessing to assess reaction and sides) then do so by 100mg per week until you hit 400-500mg and just stay on for 10-12 weeks at that dose instead of a whole 16 at a low dose and make it harder to come off for less payoff. Second is 1mg of arimidex on 250mg test with that dosing schedule seems like overkill when you’re taking 50mg proviron every day especially since tbol doesn’t aromatize so there’s no extra estrogenic activity. Take .25-.5mg adex MAYBE twice a week depending on his sides and assess how he feels from there, don’t take 1mg all at once unless you’re pinning 250mg test all at once.
Last eight weeks is puzzling because there’s no AI at a higher dose of test WITH dbol which absolutely aromatizes and a whole hell of a lot, proviron is great to have there but it likely won’t be enough, then the dosing schedule with the test is different so instead of 3 days a week you have 2 days a week and I’d do Monday and Thursday not Monday and Friday just because he’s going to pin Monday and wait 4 days, pin again then only wait 2 days to pin again. Seems like too much of a fluctuation in hormones. Bring the AI into the last 8 weeks absolutely, pin a little closer together or more frequently. I’m all for small cycles, I think less is more and if you respond well to small cycles then that’s the absolute best scenario because you have less risk for reward and have a ton of room to move up but Unless I’m missing something I’d question this “professionals” methods greatly. Just use either cyp or e by the way (unless you just have a vial of both and that’s why they’re both in the cycle) but there’s literally no difference in either of them.
I like the PCT in the dosing area but take the tamoxifen every day, also if he wants to really drag his cycle out to 16 weeks then I’d throw at least 25mg clomiphene in there every day as well and keep your AI handy just in case he’s one of the guys who has an estrogenic rebound or gets estrogen sides from HCG and Clomiphene.

I hope some of this helped! Good luck to your boyfriend!
 
Smont

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I don't think 16 is too long, what I do think is stupid is 8 weeks of tbol followed by 8 weeks of dbol and proviron. In his support list, a lot of unnecessary and pointless stuff or poor choices for his intended purpose" (Do Not) take 500mcg of B6 daily! There's all kinds of dangers associated with B6 over 200mcg and the only thing I think he would throw that in there for is prolactin.

Is it the worst cycle I've seen, no. But there's certainly nothing special about it.
 
Smont

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TBH I totally missed the pct protocol. Waiting 3 weeks after last pin to let the Ester clear is fair enough but I’d still want a 5 week pct from there myself.

I also think hcg is better ultilised at the start of pct (or a week before it starts more so) - wouldn’t run 3,000 a week for three weeks.

id run hcg at 5,000 or 10,000 in the 1-2 weeks pre pct myself.
Wait 2 weeks after last pin, blast hcg for another week or 2 then the serm. That is how I would do it. But I would only use 1000iu eod
 
Jinsun

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@deadliftqueen the first clue that should point to the fact that the person writing that doesn't have a clue is this:
Test cyp: m-w-f
Test e: m-f
 

Whisky

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And the fact that he's switching from test c to test e. There the same flicking thing lol
I assume he has one of each hence the change?

there’s some weird bits in it but it’s defo not the worst I’ve seen and it’s not gonna mess the guy up like some. I’ve seen people suggesting over a gram of juice first run or a hefty dose of tren. Or heavy orals with zero supports etc

I assumed by ‘professional’ we aren’t talking a prep coach, just a dude who’s used a bit himself or competed in some local show.
 
Marcia

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I got kicked out of that group. After they started recommending that people inhale peroxide to treat COVID, I don’t consider it a huge loss.
 

TMloc

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Yeah they'll also kick you out of you don't buy some of their high price gear within a certain time frame. ,😆 Fucx that Jack
 
Smont

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I assume he has one of each hence the change?

there’s some weird bits in it but it’s defo not the worst I’ve seen and it’s not gonna mess the guy up like some. I’ve seen people suggesting over a gram of juice first run or a hefty dose of tren. Or heavy orals with zero supports etc

I assumed by ‘professional’ we aren’t talking a prep coach, just a dude who’s used a bit himself or competed in some local show.
I don't think that's the reason. If he can get tbol and injectable dbol he can get 2x the same ester test.

What I see here is a classic example of the fake guru that reads too much. Switching esters so your body doesn't get used to one or the other, you know, cus thats a thing
 

Whisky

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I don't think that's the reason. If he can get tbol and injectable dbol he can get 2x the same ester test.

What I see here is a classic example of the fake guru that reads too much. Switching esters so your body doesn't get used to one or the other, you know, cus thats a thing
haha, I’ve never heard of that as a thing? Do people really claim that? I’d switch from one to the other if I already had one vial of each and didn’t want to buy another one, literally no other reason to change 😂
 
Smont

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haha, I’ve never heard of that as a thing? Do people really claim that? I’d switch from one to the other if I already had one vial of each and didn’t want to buy another one, literally no other reason to change
Lol, ya I've heard a bunch of ppl say they rotate between cyp, eth and prop so they don't get use to it. Same ppl think that sust is a stronger version of testosterone because it has more steroids in it. Mofos are stupid
 

Rebuild

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I don't think that's the reason. If he can get tbol and injectable dbol he can get 2x the same ester test.

What I see here is a classic example of the fake guru that reads too much. Switching esters so your body doesn't get used to one or the other, you know, cus thats a thing
Maybe it's because he is pinning inj Dbol M-F, so he switches to test E because it peaks faster, and he can just add it to the Dbol shot. Tbol and inj Dbol are really not that liver toxic at all, but 16 weeks is a little long. Also that PCT is just weird.
 
Jinsun

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Maybe it's because he is pinning inj Dbol M-F, so he switches to test E because it peaks faster, and he can just add it to the Dbol shot. Tbol and inj Dbol are really not that liver toxic at all, but 16 weeks is a little long. Also that PCT is just weird.
Do you have any references on inj dbol beeing less liver toxic?
 
Smont

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Maybe it's because he is pinning inj Dbol M-F, so he switches to test E because it peaks faster, and he can just add it to the Dbol shot. Tbol and inj Dbol are really not that liver toxic at all, but 16 weeks is a little long. Also that PCT is just weird.
Peaks in test e vs test c are miniscule, and injectable dbol is still liver toxic, but toxicity was never a issue here. You could run dbol for a year straight at a reasonable dose and be just fine
 
Jinsun

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Peaks in test e vs test c are miniscule, and injectable dbol is still liver toxic, but toxicity was never a issue here. You could run dbol for a year straight at a reasonable dose and be just fine
Just need to add to this for the general safety of the interwebs ... This varies a lot for people. And it can be vary dangerous to do something like this. And even if we disregard liver toxicity, you would still end up having trashed lipids for the whole year.
 
Smont

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Just need to add to this for the general safety of the interwebs ... This varies a lot for people. And it can be vary dangerous to do something like this. And even if disregard liver toxicity, you would still end up having trashed lipids for the whole year.
I'm not saying it's a good idea. Not by any stretch of imagination, but dbol has been used for trt and in some places still is if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention the guys back in the golden era used dbol all the time
 
Jinsun

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I'm not saying it's a good idea. Not by any stretch of imagination, but dbol has been used for trt and in some places still is if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention the guys back in the golden era used dbol all the time
Yeah, but I can imagine somebody reading this and end up using 30 - 50mg's dbol for half a year XD and end up getting choleostasis or something ...

Dbol for trt, really?
 
Smont

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Yeah, but I can imagine somebody reading this and end up using 30 - 50mg's dbol for half a year XD and end up getting choleostasis or something ...

Dbol for trt, really?
Dbol was originally approved for androgen replacement therapy for hypogonadism in men at 5-10mg per day and for women at 2.5mg, no bullshit
 

Rebuild

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Do you have any references on inj dbol beeing less liver toxic?
There aren't any injectable methyls used in medicine, so I dont think there are any studies out there. But here is a quote by Dave Palumbo: “Most of you who regularly read my column already know: I hate oral steroids. They’re liver toxic, they kill your appetite and they dont last very long in the body. Liquid Dianabol, however, is a very different beast. When Dianabol is injected intramuscularly, the apetite-supressing effects disappear, the liver toxicity drops and the muscle-building effects are maximized. Simply explained, when you consume the correct amount of food and your liver efficiently processes that food, you create the ideal anabolic environment. Stick with dosages of 25-50 mg EOD.”
 
Smont

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There aren't any injectable methyls used in medicine, so I dont think there are any studies out there. But here is a quote by Dave Palumbo: “Most of you who regularly read my column already know: I hate oral steroids. They’re liver toxic, they kill your appetite and they dont last very long in the body. Liquid Dianabol, however, is a very different beast. When Dianabol is injected intramuscularly, the apetite-supressing effects disappear, the liver toxicity drops and the muscle-building effects are maximized. Simply explained, when you consume the correct amount of food and your liver efficiently processes that food, you create the ideal anabolic environment. Stick with dosages of 25-50 mg EOD.”
As much as I like palumbo, he's rarely right, constantly contradicts himself and makes a video saying 1 thing and then a few months later says the total opposite. I take everything he says literally for entertainment purpose only
 

trumac

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Do you have any references on inj dbol beeing less liver toxic?
I don’t know if there is any actual science behind this but isn’t the commonly held belief that they skip the first pass through the liver? Isn’t that why they have been making all these injectable orals lately?
 
Smont

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I stand corrected
Take it with a grain of salt. It's just what I read. I still gotta dive deeper to make sure everything is credible. But it appears to be pretty much the same injected vs oral in multiple different ways
 
Renew1

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For some reason a lot of people have come to believe that just because you inject a compound rather than ingesting it orally, is suddenly loses liver toxicity.
 

Rebuild

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I don’t know if there is any actual science behind this but isn’t the commonly held belief that they skip the first pass through the liver? Isn’t that why they have been making all these injectable orals lately?
That's what I thought, but no one else seems to agree.
 
Renew1

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I don’t know if there is any actual science behind this but isn’t the commonly held belief that they skip the first pass through the liver? Isn’t that why they have been making all these injectable orals lately?
We have to remember, UGLs make products to increase their profits, not to make us healthier (in general).
 

trumac

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We have to remember, UGLs make products to increase their profits, not to make us healthier (in general).
I understand that. My question is why do people seem to see less sides when injecting steroids that are traditionally oral? There must be a reason people buy them beyond the novelty of it
 

trumac

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I don't hear a lot of feedback either.
They are somewhat popular on another board I frequent. Someone even quoted someone saying they get less appetite suppression in this thread. I’ve never tried any but who knows
 

Whisky

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I don't know of any1 saying they get less sides. 1 don't hear a ton on the subject really
injectable sdrol is supposed to be much less problematic injected. In particular the lethargy is way reduced (which makes sense as the first pass through the liver is harsh and a cause of lethargy from what I understand).

my understanding of the reduced toxicity on injectable was because you can take less (through the increased bioavailability). So mg for mg it might be as toxic but your only having to take half (or less) the amount for the same results?
 
Smont

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injectable sdrol is supposed to be much less problematic injected. In particular the lethargy is way reduced (which makes sense as the first pass through the liver is harsh and a cause of lethargy from what I understand).

my understanding of the reduced toxicity on injectable was because you can take less (through the increased bioavailability). So mg for mg it might be as toxic but your only having to take half (or less) the amount for the same results?
Injectable sd was the only one I've really seen talked about. But, I've yet to see any bloods whatsoever for injectable vs orals of the same compounds. That being said, I'm not really concerned with liver toxicity so I don't look into it much. Cardiovascular issues are a much bigger concern then liver toxicity with steroids
 

trumac

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Injectable sd was the only one I've really seen talked about. But, I've yet to see any bloods whatsoever for injectable vs orals of the same compounds. That being said, I'm not really concerned with liver toxicity so I don't look into it much. Cardiovascular issues are a much bigger concern then liver toxicity with steroids
I know we both have the same opinion about liver toxicity. Way overblown. I haven’t seen any bloods on injectable orals at all either
 
Jinsun

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Compounds differ if they are injected, swallowed or rubbed on skin. Primarily because, depending on the mode of metabolism, different metabolites are created and or in different quantity. This is why you see different effects from oral vs injected methyls. Liver toxicity can't be exactly the same, but there shouldn't be a big difference.
 
Renew1

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Compounds differ if they are injected, swallowed or rubbed on skin. Primarily because, depending on the mode of metabolism, different metabolites are created and or in different quantity. This is why you see different effects from oral vs injected methyls. Liver toxicity can't be exactly the same, but there shouldn't be a big difference.
If I remember correctly, Mike Arnold was talking about this a while back.
 

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