Cycle Advice - Test/Deca/Oral?

[bigmac9999]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to start my second cycle around May. My first cycle was Test-E @500mg split into two shots for 14 weeks and 20-40mg of Dbol for weeks 1-4. I responded well, gaining about 25lbs overall and keeping roughly 20lbs. I would say it was about 15lbs muscle and 5lbs fat because I stayed pretty lean. I am leaning towards a Test/Deca cycle with either/both EQ and an oral. My goals are 20+ lbs of muscle ideally and to focus on my upper body as I already have good sized legs(maybe not as much as some of you though).

I was thinking something along the lines of:
Weeks 1-18 Test-E 400-500mg, split into 2 injections per week
Weeks 1-16 Deca 400-600mg, split into 2 injections per week
*POTENTIALLY Weeks 1-4 either Dbol, Superdrol, or Anadrol
*POTENTIALLY Weeks 1-16 EQ 400-600mg, split into 2 injections per week
I will also have an AI and PCT in addition to NAC and TUDCA for liver support

Feel free to rip my cycle apart. I am unclear about running EQ and Deca together. I have seen some forums say they compliment each other well while others say it is a waste to run both at the same time. In addition, I would be curious what some of you have to say about the orals I mentioned or from people who have run multiples of the ones I am considering if they have a preference.

My stats:
21 years old - I am aware I am young
6' 2" roughly 215-220lbs at roughly 14% bf
I normally carry a low body fat but just finished my second (nonenhanced) bulk which came along with some fat, but still have moderate abs visibility.

 

[BMW4Life]

I would just drop the EQ for now, but that's me. I would fo with 500mg test, max 400mg deca and 20-30mg dbol.

 

[BBiceps]

I recommend to add the EQ, it has some AI properties which can be useful when you use Deca, but I would rather use Mast. I wouldn’t use as much as 600, 300-400 is enough of Deca. I would also use the oral the last 4-6 weeks instead of starting.

 

[Dietz1873]

At face value Deca + EQ + high test is really blood clot factor city. It’s a good thing you are young, hydrate well and do some cardio and stuff if you are going to run it. Consider lowering the cycle length as time goes by, I think you will be more than satisfied by week 12 and very by 16.

I would say instead, run anadrol for 6 weeks or plan to upfront. Drop the Deca. Stick with test dose. Run EQ, Primo or Masteron. There are the 3 that would make a sick cycle. Anadrol for 4-6 weeks and 12-16 weeks total on cycle of 400mg test and mast/primo/eq

 

[Hyde]

Pick either deca or eq to experiment with for the second run, not both. You will have many cycles to come and you need to map out what compounds work for you, what doesn’t, and what gives you what side effects.

For me, deca makes my dick soft unless I run test about twice as high at least, or with other androgens like Masteron. Even if I lower prolactin plenty with Caber, the dihydronandrolone that nandrolone 5a-reduces to effects erection quality some. Imagine having an insatiable sex drive, while also struggling to keep it up well enough to even finish

EQ crashes my E2 &, big surprise, cranks up my RBC & hematocrit even at very low dose, so it’s a no-go for me.

I would consider trying 4-500 test with maybe 250-300mg deca or 3-400mg of EQ. And put the oral at the end. Then, you will already know how the deca or eq is for you so you can try a new oral - I would go with Superdrol in either scenario, because it kicks ass but also because both deca or eq will raise your hematocrit a lot and so will Anadrol, but SD won’t do that.

Also, if you aren’t getting bloodwork on cycle you should consider donating blood halfway through to be safe, since you won’t know how thick your blood is getting. This will keep blood pressure down some and be healthier on kidneys too ultimately, which don’t repair if they get damaged.

 

[Hyde]

Also, this cycle is too long for someone looking to PCT. I would wrap it up by 14 weeks (so you would stop deca shots after 10 weeks & test e after 12). You aren’t going to make more gains really past that point anyway and the longer you are on the harder it can be to recover properly.

EQ needs like 5-6 weeks to clear sufficiently so it’s kind of a terrible move. If you don’t want to use deca, look at Masteron or primo.

 

[BBiceps]

Oh yeah, I missed the part about to do PCT after, it better not to do cycles like this if you PCTing. It’s risk vs rewards, what’s your long term goal, is it to be a bodybuilder or to just get bigger? If it is the later it’s better ways to do it.

 

[bigmac9999]

Pick either deca or eq to experiment with for the second run, not both. You will have many cycles to come and you need to map out what compounds work for you, what doesn’t, and what gives you what side effects.

For me, deca makes my dick soft unless I run test about twice as high at least, or with other androgens like Masteron. Even if I lower prolactin plenty with Caber, the dihydronandrolone that nandrolone 5a-reduces to effects erection quality some. Imagine having an insatiable sex drive, while also struggling to keep it up well enough to even finish

EQ crashes my E2 &, big surprise, cranks up my RBC & hematocrit even at very low dose, so it’s a no-go for me.

I would consider trying 4-500 test with maybe 250-300mg deca or 3-400mg of EQ. And put the oral at the end. Then, you will already know how the deca or eq is for you so you can try a new oral - I would go with Superdrol in either scenario, because it kicks ass but also because both deca or eq will raise your hematocrit a lot and so will Anadrol, but SD won’t do that.

Also, if you aren’t getting bloodwork on cycle you should consider donating blood halfway through to be safe, since you won’t know how thick your blood is getting. This will keep blood pressure down some and be healthier on kidneys too ultimately, which don’t repair if they get damaged.

Thank you for the advice. I am definitely planning to get blood work Pre and Post cycle. Not sure if I will be able to do it during my cycle though. In addition, would donating blood before the cycle be a good preventative measure for in case/when my RBC increases on cycle. I will drop the EQ like you recommend also. You are right it is better to not push my luck with how much I can handle.

 

[bigmac9999]

Oh yeah, I missed the part about to do PCT after, it better not to do cycles like this if you PCTing. It’s risk vs rewards, what’s your long term goal, is it to be a bodybuilder or to just get bigger? If it is the later it’s better ways to do it.

I was planning to PCT but also considered just hopping on TRT(either tanking my levels intentionally for a blood test w a clinic) or just injecting 150-200mg weekly from an online source. I was considering this as 1. it would keep my levels nice and high and 2. It would lower my chances of getting anyone pregnant while I am still in college. I figured I could take HCG when I am older and potentially ready to have a kid. Please call me out if I just sound young and dumb. I won't be offended. I am here to learn as much as I can from you more experienced guys.

 

[bigmac9999]

Also, this cycle is too long for someone looking to PCT. I would wrap it up by 14 weeks (so you would stop deca shots after 10 weeks & test e after 12). You aren’t going to make more gains really past that point anyway and the longer you are on the harder it can be to recover properly.

EQ needs like 5-6 weeks to clear sufficiently so it’s kind of a terrible move. If you don’t want to use deca, look at Masteron or primo.

I am definitely dropping EQ based on what you and others have said. Would a longer cycle be possible if I went into a cruise after?

 

[Hyde]

I was planning to PCT but also considered just hopping on TRT(either tanking my levels intentionally for a blood test w a clinic) or just injecting 150-200mg weekly from an online source. I was considering this as 1. it would keep my levels nice and high and 2. It would lower my chances of getting anyone pregnant while I am still in college. I figured I could take HCG when I am older and potentially ready to have a kid. Please call me out if I just sound young and dumb. I won't be offended. I am here to learn as much as I can from you more experienced guys.

Absolutely do not assume cruising will lower your fertility significantly, not one bit. Everyone is different and I personally know multiple dudes who thought testosterone would make them temporarily sterile that now have daughters from when they conceived on cycle. There are many active pro bodybuilders with young kids even. Everyone is different and unless you get your sperm tested you should assume you’re packing heat.

It only takes a single sperm to make it to the finish line. If your millions become only thousands and they all have terrible motility and hobble like idiots, if even one can just beat the odds and make it to the egg, you’re still going to be a new proud papa.

I am definitely dropping EQ based on what you and others have said. Would a longer cycle be possible if I went into a cruise after?

If you are going to cruise then you can run as long as you want to push yourself, but understand the gains will stall in time and you either need to keep taking more **** to keep forcing a little more growth, or, more practically, come down to a cruise or PCT to let things resensitize. Longer cycles are not necessarily better for overall growth, unless the dose is really quite low.

I would advise a PCT as young as you are, for now. There should be zero doubt or consideration left if you decide to cruise.

 

[Hyde]

Thank you for the advice. I am definitely planning to get blood work Pre and Post cycle. Not sure if I will be able to do it during my cycle though. In addition, would donating blood before the cycle be a good preventative measure for in case/when my RBC increases on cycle. I will drop the EQ like you recommend also. You are right it is better to not push my luck with how much I can handle.

I would donate about 6-8 weeks into the cycle if you are thinking of doing it prophylacticly.

 

[bigmac9999]

Absolutely do not assume cruising will lower your fertility significantly, not one bit. Everyone is different and I personally know multiple dudes who thought testosterone would make them temporarily sterile that now have daughters from when they conceived on cycle. There are many active pro bodybuilders with young kids even. Everyone is different and unless you get your sperm tested you should assume you’re packing heat.

It only takes a single sperm to make it to the finish line. If your millions become only thousands and they all have terrible motility and hobble like idiots, if even one can just beat the odds and make it to the egg, you’re still going to be a new proud papa.



If you are going to cruise then you can run as long as you want to push yourself, but understand the gains will stall in time and you either need to keep taking more **** to keep forcing a little more growth, or, more practically, come down to a cruise or PCT to let things resensitize. Longer cycles are not necessarily better for overall growth, unless the dose is really quite low.

I would advise a PCT as young as you are, for now. There should be zero doubt or consideration left if you decide to cruise.

Appreciate the response. I have a goal physique for myself and do not plan to use gear(besides maybe test) for more than a few years of my life. Even after my first cycle, I gained 10x my confidence just looking in the mirror or seeing how my legs no longer would fit into my pants. Since I know I have not reached my genetic limit, I am hoping that I will be able to keep most of my gains when I decide that I no longer want to use gear and hopefully will not have to keep moving up to much higher doses.

Also you are 100% right about the fertility. That is certainly a chance I do not want to take. Thank you!

 

[bigmac9999]

I would donate about 6-8 weeks into the cycle if you are thinking of doing it prophylacticly.

Excuse me if I sound dumb saying this, but wouldn't that mess up the batch of blood because there are drugs in my system when I give. I have never donated before because I was always told not to when I was playing sports 11 months a year.

 

[Hyde]

Excuse me if I sound dumb saying this, but wouldn't that mess up the batch of blood because there are drugs in my system when I give. I have never donated before because I was always told not to when I was playing sports 11 months a year.

No, that pint is not going to remotely affect your cycle. Think about the tiny amount of liquid in your 10ml vial. Now think about a tenth of that. Now think about how much blood is coursing through your ENTIRE body, all the muscles, veins, everything, and consider the possible concentration of that 1ml that could possibly be in the little pint they happen to draw out. You will not miss it remotely; you will actually train easier if your blood is less thick and get more work done before getting tired.

It is actually a great healing benefit to anyone receiving that blood, yet small enough concentration acutely that it is totally safe for women and children from a virilization standpoint. I would give it to my own son if he was in a bad accident and not think twice.

Lastly, if you aren’t at your genetic limit and don’t intend to keep using gear, I would not use deca or any 19-nor. Unnecessarily suppressive IMO. Just add some Mast or Primo and stop your shots after 12 weeks so your cycle doesn’t get too long.

 

[Noncompetitive]

Excuse me if I sound dumb saying this, but wouldn't that mess up the batch of blood because there are drugs in my system when I give. I have never donated before because I was always told not to when I was playing sports 11 months a year.

I donate double prbc's. They put your plasma back in your body. I recommend that instead of whole blood.

 

[bigmac9999]

No, that pint is not going to remotely affect your cycle. Think about the tiny amount of liquid in your 10ml vial. Now think about a tenth of that. Now think about how much blood is coursing through your ENTIRE body, all the muscles, veins, everything, and consider the possible concentration of that 1ml that could possibly be in the little pint they happen to draw out. You will not miss it remotely; you will actually train easier if your blood is less thick and get more work done before getting tired.

It is actually a great healing benefit to anyone receiving that blood, yet small enough concentration acutely that it is totally safe for women and children from a virilization standpoint. I would give it to my own son if he was in a bad accident and not think twice.

Lastly, if you aren’t at your genetic limit and don’t intend to keep using gear, I would not use deca or any 19-nor. Unnecessarily suppressive IMO. Just add some Mast or Primo and stop your shots after 12 weeks so your cycle doesn’t get too long.

Thanks for the clarity. I just wanted to check about donating because the last thing I want to do is unknowingly cause harm to someone if I could have avoided it.