CYCLE 1: Preloading 4-AD before 1-test?

Ator

New member
(Reposting it in a new thread....)
OK boys and girls, I started my first cycle today... going with Ergopharm 4-ad @ 900 mg / day
and Syntrax Sacuce 1-T beginning @ 300 mg / day. I will gradually increase the 1-T dosage, but I want to
do it slow so that I dont just crash into lethargy if that should happen (I need to stay sharp at work!).

I didnt take the 1-T today though - I have read about "preloading" the 4-AD, is that correct? How many days before
it kicks in? Or can I just blast away with the 1-T now?

(BTW, my stats: 6'9'', 256lb, BF 17%, 33y - maybe I should up the dosage based on my weight??? Any input is appreciated!)
 
The 1-test & 4ad will probably kick in around the same time, so I wouldn't worry about preloading for your stack. Preloading is often done with m1t, which kicks in in a few days. Taking both 4ad & 1test orally, I don't feel preloading is necessary. Both will kick in in the 12 - 20 day range. It varies from person to person.


dd
 
Preloading 4ad is more for m1t use, because m1t kicks in day 1, while the 4ad takes 1-2 weeks. 1-test will not pose that problem, it'll be 10 days until you really notice anything.
 
personally i would start 4ad at 600mg oral and work up to a 1200mg max. the bloat potential early in the cycle with that high of 4-ad dose on a 1st cycle is rather elevated. do 600mg the 1st 2 weeks.

size doesnt seem to make a big difference with dosages....in general

good luck filling out that frame!
 
Ator said:
"Noticing anything" - as in sides or as in gains?
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Either or both. It just takes awhile for 1test and/or 4ad to build up to high enough levels in your body so that you can actually feel it. This is also when the gains will start coming, and also, whatever sides you may have. Yes, you will feel it when it kicks in, and if you get your ratios right for you, you'll love the feeling.

dd
 
I´m going for 900 mg 4-AD + 600 1-T divided into three doses a day.
If I dont get any serious sides I´ll probably end up with 900 mg each around week 2 or 3.
 
Ator said:
I´m going for 900 mg 4-AD + 600 1-T divided into three doses a day.
If I dont get any serious sides I´ll probably end up with 900 mg each around week 2 or 3.
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wish i knew the oral availability of that 1-t....it would give you a better idea of how much 1-test your body is actually getting, and subsequently the 1-t/4-ad ratio could be planned better, as it is significant.....anyone?

i still say 900mg of 4-ad off the bat is not only overkill but will bloat the hell out of you.
 
THEBRAKES said:
i still say 900mg of 4-ad off the bat is not only overkill but will bloat the hell out of you.
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Well, I sure as hell don´t want that to happen... might consider doing only 600 then.
Anyone with experience to share?
I really want my first cycle to be a MASS experience!
 
I'm NOT speaking from experience, but I've read everything I can get my hands on. So take this for what its worth.... 900mg of oral 4ad will be similar to 200 - 300mg of transdermal. I don't have a conversion formula or anything, but it's not uncommon for guys taking oral 4ad to do 1g - 1200mg to combat m1t sides. Hopefully someone with actual experince with both will chime in, but I don't think 900mg is outrageously high for an oral dose.


dd
 
I've used oral & transdermal 4ad. 900mg oral 4ad seems about equal to 200mg transdermal, which is a fairly mild dose. I think 600mg oral is OK to start with for a week, but too low to use the entire cycle. Many people use 1000mg or more of oral 4ad. I'd go with 900mg. You'll retain water even at low doses, but you need an effective dose to make gains. If worried about bloat, get some letro.
 
I would take at least 900mg of 4/ad/day as the oral bio is very low. I ran 600mg 4ad transdermally with sauce. I ran Sauce at 600mg a day and had good results. At 256lb., I would run 600, not 300.
 
1-test has horrible oral bioavailability, if you want to use an all oral cycle i would recommend changing the 1-test to 1-ad
 
The Hexyldecanoate Ester on 1-T works very well. Better than any other oral 1-T IMO.
Here is an old thread I made while taking it.
Invalid Link Removed
 
I'd like to see more replies on whether 1-Test or 1-AD should be used in an oral cycle with 4-AD? I just purchased some 4-AD and planned to stack 1-Test with it until I started looking into the oral bioavailability issue and considering 1-AD as an alternative. What about transdermal 1-Test? Do any of the board sponsors provide what I would need if I want to go that route? Any recommendations?
 
1-test should run circles around 1-ad because 1-ad has to be converted by the liver to be active. 1test doesn't. But some people do respond better to 1-ad for some odd reason. 1-ad is a good product though. Neither one have good oral bio. That is why 1-test is better transdermally.
 
I'm in the same predicament bro, looking endlessly for 1ad/1-T comparisons and it really comes down to the person, some people swear by 1ad, some love 1-T, some hate 1ad, some despise 1-T, so I'm personally buying 2 bottles of omega's 1ad and 2 bottles of dermabolic's big 1, i'll run the 1ad first then the 1-T second, we'll see what happens, but I don't think you'll be able to fine a definitive answer to your question, different people are reacting differently to the 1-T dermals, I personally think 1ad would be the safer route as I think it's proven itself more, but 1-T has worked for its fair share of people too

good luck

o, p.s. sounds like you're kinda new to the ph game, not sure if you know this or not but 1ad converts to 1-test in your body, so even though taking 1ad and taking 1-T is *basically* taking the same thing, people sometimes respond different to the two, i have no clue why

as for recommendations, I havent been on these boards for long so I'm not familiar with the sponsor's here and their products but everybody is recommending them highly, I myself am going with dermabolics products
 
One week into my cycle... taking 600mg 1-T and 900 mg 4-AD orally.
I havent noticed much yet in added strength or muscles ( as predicted ), but I´ll be damned if I am not loosing fat!
I look considerably leaner already... and I eat as much as I can (every 2 to three hours) without throwing up :)
WTF... any ideas on how to get a lot of good food into the system without "eating like a whole footballteam"?
The hardest part sofar is not the training, its the eating, hahaha...
 
Ator said:
One week into my cycle... taking 600mg 1-T and 900 mg 4-AD orally.
I havent noticed much yet in added strength or muscles ( as predicted ), but I´ll be damned if I am not loosing fat!
I look considerably leaner already... and I eat as much as I can (every 2 to three hours) without throwing up :)
WTF... any ideas on how to get a lot of good food into the system without "eating like a whole footballteam"?
The hardest part sofar is not the training, its the eating, hahaha...
Click to expand...
weight gains should be coming very shortly if you just wrapped up week 1.

dude - you are what? 6'9" 250lbs? i'm a large guy and i have to eat no less than 6 full, proper meals in a day to gain weight, not counting PWO shake. you've learned something important when you realize that diet is the number 1 factor, bar none, in body composition changes and it is also the hardest because IT NEVER STOPS. take a day off the gym, sure, but take a day off eating right/alot? not an option. welcome to recreational bodybuilding (it's even more insane if you ever want to compete) - also i find that big doses of B12 keeps my hunger up. at least i think its the B12 - i take alot of stuff.
 
Ator said:
One week into my cycle... taking 600mg 1-T and 900 mg 4-AD orally.
I havent noticed much yet in added strength or muscles ( as predicted ), but I´ll be damned if I am not loosing fat!
I look considerably leaner already... and I eat as much as I can (every 2 to three hours) without throwing up :)
WTF... any ideas on how to get a lot of good food into the system without "eating like a whole footballteam"?
The hardest part sofar is not the training, its the eating, hahaha...
Click to expand...
Just give it another 1-2 weeks and you should notice a good jump in strength and endurance.
 
Now things start to get interesting.... My BF is exactly the same as before my I started my cycle, but my weight is up
more than 2 kg (about 4-5 pounds). Also I got extreme pumps today, and I felt wonderful while working out.
Love this... things are starting to kick in now.
 
Help me out please;

Due to the damn x-mas post chaos my delivery of more Syntrax Sauce T-1 still havent
shown up... and tomorrow tuesday I will have to end my cycle if it doesnt show up.

However, I do have a bottle of LGP 1-T Hydroxy-Test. Can I use that until the Sauce shows up?

I am taking 600 mg 1-T and 900 4-AD orally / day. How much LGP 1-T does that "convert to" transdermally?

Someone please help me out here... my cycle is really kicking in now and I´d hate to end it now.

 
Ator said:
Help me out please;

Due to the damn x-mas post chaos my delivery of more Syntrax Sauce T-1 still havent
shown up... and tomorrow tuesday I will have to end my cycle if it doesnt show up.

However, I do have a bottle of LGP 1-T Hydroxy-Test. Can I use that until the Sauce shows up?

I am taking 600 mg 1-T and 900 4-AD orally / day. How much LGP 1-T does that "convert to" transdermally?

Someone please help me out here... my cycle is really kicking in now and I´d hate to end it now.

Click to expand...
does that LG bottle have the ingredients on it? if i recall it has both 1-T AND 4-OH in it. check the doses and try to keep them in line with where you've been. if you're off - you'll know it within 48 hours...if i'm wrong and the gel doesnt have actual 1-T in it, then you will need to find another product pronto. and i'm not sure if there will be a difference between an oral and transdermal 1-T in terms of efficacy, but i would expect it to be similar. check archives for doses of 1-T solution (200-400mg/day) and compare it to what the bottle says it is providing.

and if you find that topical administration works better, by all means post it (although it will be a little biased considering he is just now reaching the point in the cycle that most of the weight gain occurs)
 
THEBRAKES said:
does that LG bottle have the ingredients on it? if i recall it has both 1-T AND 4-OH in it. check the doses and try to keep them in line with where you've been. if you're off - you'll know it within 48 hours...if i'm wrong and the gel doesnt have actual 1-T in it, then you will need to find another product pronto. and i'm not sure if there will be a difference between an oral and transdermal 1-T in terms of efficacy, but i would expect it to be similar. check archives for doses of 1-T solution (200-400mg/day) and compare it to what the bottle says it is providing.

and if you find that topical administration works better, by all means post it (although it will be a little biased considering he is just now reaching the point in the cycle that most of the weight gain occurs)
Click to expand...

The bottle says:
1-Androstene-17bol-3-one - 33mg
4-Androstene-4,17b-ol-3 - 25mg
4-Androstene-3,17b-diol - 50mg

So it contains 1-T and 4-AD... I guess the "added bonus" of Hydroxy-Test for a few days is just good. My main concern is the dosage - I dont want to get too little on me. How does the oral compare to the transdermal?
 
To get the max oral bioavailability take an estergel. take either 1-t undecoanate or 1-t hexyldeconate. A good buy right now is Molecular Nutrition's 1-t estergel's. 100mg/60 caps for $47 at netrition.com. If you dont want MN go with Nutrex 1-TU.
 
OK, my first cycle is over... I did 23 days of 1-T @ 600 mg and 4-AD @ 900 mg.

I decided to stop after 23 days because of holidays and some unexpected travelling that would
compromise my visits to the gym... really sucks, cause I really started to grow when I quit.
But I look at this first cycle as a learning experience (thanks to you all who helped me out with advice!).

So what did I get from it?

About 6 pounds of muscles (no bloat whatsoever)
Lowered my BF (hell, I just couldnt eat more... that was the hardest part)

Sides:

Minor nut shrinkage.
A bit tired, but not much.

All in all, I just loved it. Cant wait for my next cycle which will be basically the same, but possibly a bit more
1-T... and at least 5 weeks!

So how long should one wait? I have heard the classic "as long off as you were on" and also 3 months...?

(Currently on PCT with 6-OXO, Milk Thistle, Saw Palmetto, Tribulus, multis, NAC)
 
for a 3 week cycle like that most will recommend the usual 3-4 week pct followed by a few weeks off, it's up to you though, you can go right after pct, or wait a month or two, i personally think the first option i suggested is the best way to go about it though
 
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