CroLifter's 2020 cycle, let's discuss!

CroLifter

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So with 2020 right at our doorstep and me having received some offers from my sources, i thought it would be fun to take a look and discuss the options for my 2020 cycle.
I am basically sticking to 1 cycle per year policy and like before, this one will be done right before beach season lol.

The goal is to add muscle and strength without significant fat, gaining some more definition would be nice too however that might be a little too optimistic.

So lets say slow bulk being a primary goal and a recomp being secondary, if possible.

Will be eating at a slight surplus. I will start at 300-500 kcals over maintenace and adjust from there, depending on how much fat i seem to be gaining. Diet will be roughly 50/40/10 or 55/35/10 c/p/f, somewhere in that ballpark, it is my usual macro split.

I will switch from my lower volume lower reps training to a higher volume 8-10 reps per sets, i seem to be growing a bit better with 8-10 reps but right now i am only concerned with maintaining my strength, so i go with 5 reps.

Drug options are as follows:

1) week 1-7 test E 5-600mg
week 8-12 test E 375mg tren a 200mg (175-210, 25-30mg per day)
Mk677 throughout, something like 7/8 on and 4/5 off

Since i already have everything i need for this cycle, i could perhaps afford some gh, something like 4iu on off days from mk

Proviron as wanted, to get drier and harder for when i want to look dry and hard


2) week 1-7 test E 375mg NPP 300mg
week 8-12 test E 375mg Var 50mg daily (could go higer but would 1st have to see how i tolerate orals, digestion, liver etc)

Mk677 throughout 7/8 on 4/5 off, no gh
Proviron to get drier and harder or when i want to look harder and drier, it works fast anyway




So these are the options. Basically I want to hear which cycle do you think would be better. I am also open to all suggestions. Only thing i kinda dont want to do is run 19 nors all cycle, so idea of combining npp and tren in the same cycle doesnt really appeal to me.

Feel free to suggest switching compounds, lowering doses/adding other stuff in (i feel like something could be done about that higher test dose in cycle no.1, but i am not sure what would be good to stack the test with since i dont want to run npp and tren in the same cycle).

Adding Var to cycle no.1 was also something i was thinking about, in the 2nd half, but i think it would be too much on my lipids with tren already in the mix.

I am also interested to hear how test and nandrolone compare mg for mg when it comes to anabolic potency.

Lets hear those suggestions!
 
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trumac

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You’ve been back and forth on wanting to try the tren. You’ve already got it and it’s ace. I’d say give it a go and if the sides are too much you can drop the tren easy enough. If you are able to continue it you could get some bloodwork mid cycle and check lipids and if they’re good add the var in at the end.
 

CroLifter

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You’ve been back and forth on wanting to try the tren. You’ve already got it and it’s ace. I’d say give it a go and if the sides are too much you can drop the tren easy enough. If you are able to continue it you could get some bloodwork mid cycle and check lipids and if they’re good add the var in at the end.
I am thinking along those lines too. Why not use the stuff i already have.
I am thinking if i cant handle it i will order an express delivery of anavar and end the cycle with it @50 mg per day, IF i dont like the tren.

Other than that, i am keeping my diet pretty low fat and i will totally avoid greasy sauces, eggs, cream, full fat cheese,whole milk...i usually dont eat those too. Red meat i will limit my intake too, only lean cuts too.

So i hope only my hdl will be low, total and ldl should be within range.
I will take aspirin to counter potential blood clotting induced by thromboxane release and cialis for blood pressure.
 
DemntedCowboy

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I like the second option, and it's kinda something I was looking at for later this year as well. But I would say something like:
Test-E 200mg p/week
NPP 200mg p/week
Anavar 50-100 p/day

And you could probably through in some Proviron just for the heck of it and maybe some GH at 4iu a day
 

CroLifter

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I like the second option, and it's kinda something I was looking at for later this year as well. But I would say something like:
Test-E 200mg p/week
NPP 200mg p/week
Anavar 50-100 p/day

And you could probably through in some Proviron just for the heck of it and maybe some GH at 4iu a day
That would be kinda expensive right now for me.

And this is why i asked about test vs nandrolone mg for mg. Everyone says deca/npp for bulking but what would really be the advantage of say running 200 test 300 nandrolone vs 500 test?

I was looking at some studies and it seems that nandrolone maintains the same muscular weight at a lower dose than test, but test builds more strength, which would imply that it builds strength through more than just muscle growth, ie cns stimulation. Also at low doses (100 mg per week) deca beats test at muscle growth but at 300mg per week it is the other way around.

This is also something that has been kinda bugging me with nandrolone. I like the androgenic aggression i get from test and am worried that lower test with nandro i wouldnt get that aggression.
 

CroLifter

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But yes, both cycles look really tempting, that is why i am researching.

And i am not the one who believes that tren is some magic above everything else it is just the fact that i already have it. But i also onow that it comes with lots of sides and it is not always onoy about the strength of the compound... if i am fukked mentally and cant eat how will i progress in the gym?

There are lots of variables.
 
DemntedCowboy

DemntedCowboy

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Since being on TRT, I have always just ran test no higher than TRT dose, and let the other drugs do the work in a cycle. But that is just my thought process, and has worked well for me so far
 
Nac

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Yip, if NPP at 200 is your only dosing option, you might be better flagging it and just doing 500mg test.
 

CroLifter

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I think i am going to go with the option no.1 as i already have everything i need.

The only problem is i realized going through my stash today that i only have enough tren a for 5 weeks @150mg , and not 200 😠

So what do you guys think?

More tren or a light dose of Var like 40mg per day alongside 150mg tren? (my stubborn ass is going to decide anyway but i still want to hear some sensible opinions lol 😆)
 
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CroLifter

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So far it looks like this. Decided to go with an all injectable stack.

week 1-7 test 300 mast 200 npp 250
Week 8-12 test 300 mast 200 tren a 140-210 depending on sides

Preceded by few weeks of just test at 200-250 to ease into the cycle, dont wanna go from 300 test level to 2000 immediately. Want to consolidate a bit before the real gains hit, to get into the flow of things, to get a feel for what is to come.

Everything is still subject to change. Mast is optional, i originally thought to go with just 400 test but with 19 nors i believe i will have issues with gyno and prolactin as i already have a tiny lump behind the left nipple. And mk677 will be in the mix so prolactin issues are to be expected.

Imho this doesnt look like too much. The only issues are potential tren sides which can hopefully be managed quickly as i can discontinue quickly since it is acetate, so i am not worried really. If i can take it, fine. If not, oh well, so many other compounds.

however [email protected]#%ing hematocrit is 100% going to be a huge problem, as that b1tch seems to hover around 51% and i havent taken a testosterone injection since beginning of november.

Calories will still be light-moderate surplus. I am not after the shredded look, i dont want to sacrifice mass and strength gains for some chiseled abs, no offense. I am fine with 10-11% bf.

Currently 12-14% but maybe i manage to get to 11 % by the time cycle starts.
 
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boooosted

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I like the looks of this, I wouldn't mind seeing a log. Are you going to pct or start up trt again?
 

CroLifter

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Pct, with hcg it is a breeze (will be running it throughout).
But i am going to definitely cruise for 2-3 weeks post cycle as i will be on vacation.

yep i am really excited about it, all compounds have a purpose.

oh and i am also running mk677 throughout, sth like 8 on 4 off (days).
 
boooosted

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Pct, with hcg it is a breeze (will be running it throughout).
But i am going to definitely cruise for 2-3 weeks post cycle as i will be on vacation.

yep i am really excited about it, all compounds have a purpose.

oh and i am also running mk677 throughout, sth like 8 on 4 off (days).
So this could be an 18 week cycle. Just curious why cruise for a few weeks after and risk how much you will come back instead of starting pct right away? Are you just confident you'll have no problem bouncing back with hcg?
 

CroLifter

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Good point. Damage has already been done, as i have been on from march to august, and then again late september - october.

Dont want to go on pct during vacation. Perhaps i wont even need to cruise, if I pin 500 test last week, i am still going to have good T levels for 14 more days.

tren is going to be out of my system within days but test and mast will stay for some time.

And I will be running hcg (LH analogue) constantly, so my testicles will constantly be working, no downtime and no atrophy.

with enough hcg your natty production goes on.
 

swimfan65

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I like the the 1st option. My suggestion would be to run the tren at 100 EOD for the entire cycle..and then there are really mixed opinions about the test dose..lower or higher. Some will say that tren will bind more easily to receptors and all the leftover test will convert to estrogen. In my personal experience, this was not the case. I ran Test at 500 a week and tren A 100 EOD and ended up 6'6 340 with abs...little to no bloat..no E sides. Mild..very mild Tren sides. Any more Tren than that for me is dangerous to the public. Just my 2 cents brother
 

CroLifter

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I like the the 1st option. My suggestion would be to run the tren at 100 EOD for the entire cycle..and then there are really mixed opinions about the test dose..lower or higher. Some will say that tren will bind more easily to receptors and all the leftover test will convert to estrogen. In my personal experience, this was not the case. I ran Test at 500 a week and tren A 100 EOD and ended up 6'6 340 with abs...little to no bloat..no E sides. Mild..very mild Tren sides. Any more Tren than that for me is dangerous to the public. Just my 2 cents brother
I had anxiety issues with masteron so going careful with tren. I believe 200mg per week is ample for first time around.

I am scared to run a gram or more, so trying to stick 500-600mg per wee total but as one starts to stack dosages can get out of hand pretty quickly, as it can be seen from my latest proposed stack.

Also hoping to avoid most of aerobic capacity issues by sticking to 200mg max as i already suck in that department (i can easily outlift my cardiovasular system, had pneumonia in november).
 

swimfan65

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I had anxiety issues with masteron so going careful with tren. I believe 200mg per week is ample for first time around.
Oh..ok..didnt know it was your first time. Yes it is wise to dip your toe into the pool before jumping in.
 
Jinsun

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I can give you my 2 cents on NPP as I am running atm for the first time. It's just test c 150mg's and NPP 250 mg's a week. I pin both every day. Starting my 3rd week soon.

First of all, NPP is surprisingly androgenic. Aggression wise 250 mg's is for me similar to 20 mg's dbol. Mentally I feel more assertive and maybe a bit more grounded, stable, less fuacks given. My basal heart rate went up almost by 10 bpm. Which is a lot. But b/c I have really disturbed sleep on it, I am thinking about dropping it and just going tbol + test for 6 weeks.

Regarding gains I can't say I am impressed. Don't notice much. Strength went up a bit, recovery is a lot better.

My advice, if you'll go low on npp then add an oral, that will give you most of your gains. And/or run npp for a longer time period.

Also, advice, don't lower aas further down the cycle, makes no sense as myostatin level rise you need to add more aas.
 

CroLifter

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Yep nandrolone is a more pure AR activator while test also suppresses glucocorticoids AND stimulates cns, hence why nandrolone is good as a 2nd compound.

hmmm androgenic npp is you say. Are you 100% positive about its legitimacy? It isnt just test prop?
Also, advice, don't lower aas further down the cycle, makes no sense as myostatin level rise you need to add more aas.
That was never the plan. I am running tren the last which should be the strongest.

I am the one who talks about myostatin causing problems on cycle. My gains came to a screeching halt on 500 test around week 7.
 
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CroLifter

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Hmmm kicker would be interesting. I am in Europe, so have access to stuff like M-sten, epistane...
also to dbol and tbol.

i have to think this through. I have test, masteron and tren already on hand, but still didnt get npp.
 
Jinsun

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Idk ... You're a sensitive person, so avoid as much as you can androgenic aas like npp, mast, tren, etc. Even 300mg's of test is imo to much. I'm similar so this is largely based on my own experience. I remember you panicking about mast and other stuff. What do you think tren will be like?? There's a big change you'll be panicking here in a couple off weeks about god knows what. Stuff like this is for mentally thougher users.

I thought npp was going to be a breeze, but it's a 19nor and the androgenic sides are real. Tren would be much worse I suppose. I'm angry all the time and starting to become more and more unstable and useless in life in general. (forget what I said in my first post about being more stable, was half a sleep when I wrote that).

So, my advice:

- TRT test, just so that you hit 25 pg/ml e2 and so that you have some normal DHT
- tbol, var, SD, primo, DHB, all in a low to medium dose. You should treat medium doses as high doses tbh. So 400mg's primo should be your max consideration for instance. And if sleep is a problem forget injectables and go with var or SD, or some similar half a day half life oral
- ostarine or LGD. Yes, sarm's, I know... But, they are the least androgenic anabolics out there.
- peptides: cjc1295dac and hexarelin.

All this combined, a proposed cycle:

- 150 Test
- 10 to 40 (taper) tbol or var (8 weeks)
- 10 to 20 (taper) LGD (8 or more weeks)
- 3 to 4mg's e6d cjc1295dac (whole cycle and pct and beyond if you wish)
- mk677 if you wish, but I'd rather not, it's just to dirty
- ostarine if you wish can't really hurt that much

A low dose cycle, but one that is probably sustainable for you and should still yield a max 10 pound tissue gain over the course of 3 months or so. Tbh 150 test and 250 npp that I am on now, is giving me all the enhancement that I need. If npp wouldn't be disturbing my sleep so much I would be completely happy running this doses for 8 to 12 weeks. Adding something like tbol just for some extra fun.

I honestly don't understand why you are even considering mast if you had panic attacks on it, and why the h*ll you're planing on using something like tren, which is 10x worse then mast?
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

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Just fyi re hcg and test production on cycle. People who did oral only cycle's with serm's still had almost zero TT with their LH being around the range 1.0 - 1.5. Also if you look at sarm cycles wher LH stays in range for quite some time but TT drops to zero. Testies stop producing test while aas are in serum. What hcg actually does is it keeps intratesticular test in range.

If you didn't know...
 

CroLifter

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I never heard of anyone having such an experience with npp. Nandrolone is a progestin, so gyno, loss of libido etc is expected.

But aggression from nandrolone? I heard of depression issues.

if i had unlimited resources i would be running low test high primo cycle with 4 iu gh per day. But the reality is that i can use what i have.
 
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Jinsun

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Idk. why it wouldn't be tbh. It's an androgenic 19nor ... All aas contribute to aggression. How much you notice it is a different story, as that is mostly down to your own mindfulness subjective perception. But there wasn't one aas that didn't alter my psychological state. I was the least aggressive on SD, but that had a ton of other sides that weren't acceptable.

You feel different, people feel like a different person if they have test in 300 - 400 range compared to when they go on TRT and have test in 900 - 1100 range. This is a difference of app. 70mg's of extra test per week lol. Nothing when compared to on cycle dosages of stuff that is much stronger then test.
 

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I'd personally go with GHRP-2/Sermorelin or Ipamorelin w/CJC 1295 rather than MK677 because it can help burn fat, unlike MK677. GHRP-2 has the added bonus of stimulating some cortisol release. This is a good thing as you don't want excess glucocorticoid suppression that high dose androgens will elicit.

I think Test E at 300mg is more than enough. I'd opt for Nandrolone over Tren, about 150mg per week.
Less is more. You'll feel better with less drugs and still make great gains.
 

CroLifter

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I'd personally go with GHRP-2/Sermorelin or Ipamorelin w/CJC 1295 rather than MK677 because it can help burn fat, unlike MK677. GHRP-2 has the added bonus of stimulating some cortisol release. This is a good thing as you don't want excess glucocorticoid suppression that high dose androgens will elicit.

I think Test E at 300mg is more than enough. I'd opt for Nandrolone over Tren, about 150mg per week.
Less is more. You'll feel better with less drugs and still make great gains.
Well who knows at this point, everything is still subject to change.

Tren is in the game only because i already have a stash of it. There is however one major problem i have with tren, and that is the fact that it is a PED which decreases very important part of performance, aerobic capacity,

But i have a tendency to chicken out when the time for action comes, so i have a plan b. And that is a 500 per week test cycle with anavar or epistane finisher. Simple but effective.

And i definitely aint going with cjc, no disrespect, but for the money i can get research grade gh, cjc is ridicoulously expensive.

Yes, mk677 is "dirty", as in it skyrockets prolactin, but it is damn effective at raising igf 1 levels.

@Jinsun here is what i think is happening with ypur aggression on npp. Nandrolone has a higher affinity for ar's and therefore it binds and prevents test from binding, hence morr circulating test, converting to dht and estro.

Similar to how people say that high test with 19 nors exaggerates
sides such as gyno, as that free flowing test then converts to estro rather than bindijg to the ar's, as 19 nors have higher binding affinity.
 
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Jinsun

Jinsun

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No it isn't that. I can feel it the same day when I pin. For instance I skipped one day and pinned double the dose the next day. I felt it later that day; alpha and agression.
 

CroLifter

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No it isn't that. I can feel it the same day when I pin. For instance I skipped one day and pinned double the dose the next day. I felt it later that day; alpha and agression.
Interesting, did you run pharma grade deca before? Did you experience same level of aggression?

who says that they didnt put a little bit of tren in there to spice it up, it is cheap. I am almost positive that there is some other sh1t in my masteron powder, perhaps some stimulant, as my reaction was completely abnormal. I felt incredibly tense and anxious.

Just saying... disturbed sleep, increased heart rate...sounds like there is some tren in there to me.
 
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Jinsun

Jinsun

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Just saying... disturbed sleep, increased heart rate...sounds like there is some tren in there to me.
Hm, idk. maybe? I've never taken tren so can't say. I don't know why they would add tren to npp though. Npp is generally sold for less then tren. Besides, UGL is SIS, which again isn't an unknown ugl. Usually their gear is gtg.

I'm not trying to prolong this discussion and derail your thread, just saying. We can leave it at that.
 

CroLifter

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Major, major changes to the regimen inbound.

I think i am going to stick to 8-9 weeks max per cycle as i potentially see myself doing this year after year before going on vacation, once a year *gulp*

So right now i am thinking.

Week 1-8 test E 375mg (for simplicity, 0.5ml m/w/f)
Week 5-8 tren a (30 days @ 25mg/day, that is how much i got)
Mk 677 on/ff throughout.

And now i am thinking about anavar as both a kickstart and end hardener.
So 40mg a day for the first 2 and last 2 weeks.
Why 4 weeks? Because it is expensive and one pack gives me just enough for 4 weeks @ 40 mg a day and 2 packs is double the cost and i am left with extra. So idk have to think more about it.

Another possible change is switching from test e to test prop since only 8 weeks, however i already have test e and am wary of the alleged pip coming with prop injections. This will be decided based upon on my own internal musings and conflicts.

Still subject to change but i am done with 12 week + crazy cycles. Once and never again. I am young and if I continue doing 12 week+ cycles year on year even only pnce per year i am afraid i am going to develop some sh1t, cardiomyopathy, calcification etc. Not saying this is healthy, however it is significantly less cumulative time on.

Should be easier to recover too. Although i will be running hcg anyway as it makes me feel insanely good.
And i have my own crazy theories about it decreasing ldl by stimulating steroid production lol


Not because i suffered serious sides, but i didnt see anything gains wise even on test E which is long ester after week 7-8, and no point in stressing my body if i am not gaining.
 
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