Creatine as part of PCT

joe123!

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Curious, creatine can pretty much produce the same results as a natty anabolic, but I never see people use it with their PCT (OTC or SERM).

So I am wondering.... Why drop $100+ on an epicat or lax product when you can spend $8 for a 3-month supply of creatine for the same, if not virtually same results.

FYI, I have tried probably around 15 natty anabolics.
 
dezzy84

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I think the 'natty anabolic' products are a waste of money for me...at least on the surface...I've never tried them. Yes, creatine is super useful during PCT, really anytime and more cost effective.
 

joe123!

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True, but if you cycle off creatine while on a run and pre-load the first week you stop your run it would act as a decent bridge. Just never see it listed when people post their PCT regiment.

Time to bring back the wonder drug of the 90s 😆
 

joe123!

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I think the 'natty anabolic' products are a waste of money for me...at least on the surface...I've never tried them. Yes, creatine is super useful during PCT, really anytime and more cost effective.
Only one I've had any decent gains on was Anafuse. Maybe bc it was the first epi/lax mix I tried??? I tried others, but they never hit me the same.
 
LeanEngineer

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Only one I've had any decent gains on was Anafuse. Maybe bc it was the first epi/lax mix I tried??? I tried others, but they never hit me the same.
First time I used anafuse I got great results as well. Not i'll typically always run two bottles back to back and get even better results.
 
ValiantThor08

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True, but if you cycle off creatine while on a run and pre-load the first week you stop your run it would act as a decent bridge. Just never see it listed when people post their PCT regiment.

Time to bring back the wonder drug of the 90s
I like to just stay on creatine. The effects shouldn't cease because it is ran for an extended period of time.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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i love my natty anabolics ( Xgels, Anabolic effect, epi plex etc )

@jrock645 said it well, stay on it year around and don't count it as a sup when it comes to creatine.
 

saderboy80

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Curious, creatine can pretty much produce the same results as a natty anabolic, but I never see people use it with their PCT (OTC or SERM).

So I am wondering.... Why drop $100+ on an epicat or lax product when you can spend $8 for a 3-month supply of creatine for the same, if not virtually same results.

FYI, I have tried probably around 15 natty anabolics.
What have you all tried?
 

CroLifter

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What have you all tried?
Since we already use AAS, its the myostatin inhibition/ downregulation (or follistatin upregulation even) we should be looking at instead of androgen receptor activation (that is what all those " plant steroids" should do imho)

I witnessed the negative power of myostatin 1st hand when i was exploding on my test cycle week 3-6 and then the gains abruptly stopped. Threw some mast on top of it, got more aggressive and a bit stronger, but no muscle gains. I reckon i could have thrown a G of test in there and gains wouldnt hold their own compared to those initial gains when myostatin was low in the beginning.


So far epicatechin seems the most promising.
 
ValiantThor08

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Since we already use AAS, its the myostatin inhibition/ downregulation (or follistatin upregulation even) we should be looking at instead of androgen receptor activation (that is what all those " plant steroids" should do imho)

I witnessed the negative power of myostatin 1st hand when i was exploding on my test cycle week 3-6 and then the gains abruptly stopped. Threw some mast on top of it, got more aggressive and a bit stronger, but no muscle gains. I reckon i could have thrown a G of test in there and gains wouldnt hold their own compared to those initial gains when myostatin was low in the beginning.


So far epicatechin seems the most promising.
Stupid homeostasis..
 

UNX

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Since we already use AAS, its the myostatin inhibition/ downregulation (or follistatin upregulation even) we should be looking at instead of androgen receptor activation (that is what all those " plant steroids" should do imho)

I witnessed the negative power of myostatin 1st hand when i was exploding on my test cycle week 3-6 and then the gains abruptly stopped. Threw some mast on top of it, got more aggressive and a bit stronger, but no muscle gains. I reckon i could have thrown a G of test in there and gains wouldnt hold their own compared to those initial gains when myostatin was low in the beginning.


So far epicatechin seems the most promising.
I've seen one video where "more plates, more dates" showed a study regading AAS and myostatin. Myostatin levels goes up the first 6 weeks but then hit the baseline again. So maybe myostatin is not the culprit, there are tons of downstream signals once the AR is activated the could be repressed or downregulated.
 
thebigt

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Since we already use AAS, its the myostatin inhibition/ downregulation (or follistatin upregulation even) we should be looking at instead of androgen receptor activation (that is what all those " plant steroids" should do imho)

I witnessed the negative power of myostatin 1st hand when i was exploding on my test cycle week 3-6 and then the gains abruptly stopped. Threw some mast on top of it, got more aggressive and a bit stronger, but no muscle gains. I reckon i could have thrown a G of test in there and gains wouldnt hold their own compared to those initial gains when myostatin was low in the beginning.


So far epicatechin seems the most promising.
i added epichaos on my icon one cycle, can't say how much difference it made, but i gained a very lean 7lbs on a 2 month cycle--i was very, very happy with results.
 
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CroLifter

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I've seen one video where "more plates, more dates" showed a study regading AAS and myostatin. Myostatin levels goes up the first 6 weeks but then hit the baseline again. So maybe myostatin is not the culprit, there are tons of downstream signals once the AR is activated the could be repressed or downregulated.
All in all we need to figuee out the way to keep it from increasing...or at least lessen the amount it increases

If i coud keep growing for 10 weeks as i did in the first 4 weeks it would be amazing.


Hm...selective myostatin expression modulators...imagine if for example we could decrease its expression in skeletal muscle but increase in myocardial tissue... win win situation.
 
Fly_boy

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Curious, creatine can pretty much produce the same results as a natty anabolic, but I never see people use it with their PCT (OTC or SERM).

So I am wondering.... Why drop $100+ on an epicat or lax product when you can spend $8 for a 3-month supply of creatine for the same, if not virtually same results.

FYI, I have tried probably around 15 natty anabolics.
I like to get off creatine while on cycle, let the anabolics do the work and then get back on creatine to help preserve gains during PCT.

I was off creatine for over a year and I forgot how awesome it was. Once I jumped back on my workouts were night and day.
 
dezzy84

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I like to get off creatine while on cycle, let the anabolics do the work and then get back on creatine to help preserve gains during PCT.

I was off creatine for over a year and I forgot how awesome it was. Once I jumped back on my workouts were night and day.
Right, and it also is non hormonal, so doesn't impede hpta recovery, gives some fullness and strength. It's a great tool for PCT.
 

CroLifter

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Gh is a powerful myostatin inhibitor:


Dose in the study would equate to 1.5 IU a day for a 100kg man.


Soooo in theory, running a gh/secretagogue cycle prior to an anabolics cycle should not produce the same myostatin upregulation as if we had run AAS.

That woud be interesting to further explore, and would also explain apart from hyperplasia which happens upon long term gh administration why GH is so synergistic with AAS.
 

saderboy80

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Gh is a powerful myostatin inhibitor:


Dose in the study would equate to 1.5 IU a day for a 100kg man.


Soooo in theory, running a gh/secretagogue cycle prior to an anabolics cycle should not produce the same myostatin upregulation as if we had run AAS.

That woud be interesting to further explore, and would also explain apart from hyperplasia which happens upon long term gh administration why GH is so synergistic with AAS.
Made this apply to peptides or mk677?
 
StarScream66

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Just an FYI, the benefits of increased creatine on cycle are mediated by estrogen, so if you are taking an AI/SERM during your cycle, you would want to supplement with creatine. I always recommend Creapure band creatine. It's German made micronized creatine and a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Optimum Nutrition Creatine uses Creapure.


But I would take it on and off cycle (if you're bulking) as it infers definite anabolic benefits outside of just the androgen receptor activation.

I personally stop using creatine on cycle and start using again during PCT
Why?
 

CroLifter

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Just an FYI, the benefits of increased creatine on cycle are mediated by estrogen, so if you are taking an AI/SERM during your cycle, you would want to supplement with creatine. I always recommend Creapure band creatine. It's German made micronized creatine and a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Optimum Nutrition Creatine uses Creapure.


But I would take it on and off cycle (if you're bulking) as it infers definite anabolic benefits outside of just the androgen receptor activation.



Why?
Its generally a good idea to let your estrogen run higher if you can handle it unless its a contest prep or purely a cutting cycle where one doesnt want any recomp/muscle gain.

I think that any extra fat deposition produced by higher estro is eqsily offset by anabolics especially if we are using gh, tren etc.

And the benefits of higher estro are numerous: fullness, increased igf 1, muscle growth, more glycogen


Not to mention CV health.

I would much rather fight bloat and moonface with mast or proviron than with an AI.
 

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