Crazy emotional! Very sad(Clomid)

[Spookybro]

I'm taking 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva for pct and I'm so depressed and lost all confidence. I used to think I could study to take a test and pass it and now after taking clomid for 21days now I feel emotional, weak and feel like I'll never amount to anything.

Does clomid really cause this kind of emotional issues or is it all in my head?

 

[nostrum420]

It's the Clomid. Drop it and just use the Nolva. Next time get Torem if you can... or there's always trt life.

 

[BBiceps]

I don’t get any emotional sides from Clomid, I feel good on it.

Cut your dose and see if that helps, I rarely take more than 25mg of Clomid.

 

[CroLifter]

As far as getting emotional from clomid - it depends on the amount of androgrns in your body,
Ratio of androgens:estrogens is more important than absolute numbers.

During my first attempt to pct in september i started 25mg clomid
without running hcg prior to that. I felt like sh1t and only on 25mg i was feeling totally unmotivated and depressed, and even woke up one day with tears rollong (even though i wasnt sad, they started coming for no reason). I was practically just laying in bed whole day with crazy anxiety and paranoia.

This time i am running 50mg per day, double the dose, but i feel good, strength is going up and everything is working fine, because i have been running hcg prior to starting clomid and my androgen levels are obviously way higher than they were during the first pct attempt.

This time around the only side effect are fits of rage lol.

Clomid had an isomer which acts estrogenic in the body, if you got very low androgen levels (which you do as you are shut down), then you are esentially inducing estrogen dominance.

I know the feel of estrogen dominance, used to get it when i was running underdosed test (which amounted to about 40-50mg of actual test e per week).

It is a mix of sadness and anxiety, weird feeling, hard to describe. But you do feel horrible and it seems like you are going to lose it.

btw imho if you drop clomid it will lengthen your recovery. Yeah nolva is shown to be more potent than clomid blah blah but there must be a reason why clomid is prescribed for secondary hypogonadism.

also anecdotally clomid seems to be way better at kickstarting lh.

 

[audi4796]

Definitely a reported effect of clomid don’t over think it

 

[nostrum420]

ITT It's the clomid

Also ITT Stay on the clomid

 

[CroLifter]

ITT It's the clomid

Also ITT Stay on the clomid

Well of course he can drop it. Hell, he can drop the whole pct and go by his everyday life and eventually things will go back in order.

We can argue it could be a healthier move as he wouldnt be putting more drugs into his body.

 

[nostrum420]

Well of course he can drop it. Hell, he can drop the whole pct and go by his everyday life and eventually things will go back in order.

We can argue it could be a healthier move as he wouldnt be putting more drugs into his body.

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

[CroLifter]

Reductio ad absurdum.

You want to argue that he wont recover without serms?
What the hell do serms do? They make the hypothalamus think estrogen levels are very low, so it produces more lh in effort to balance the hormones.

Estro is low anyway if he is severy shut down. So all serms will do is speed up his recovery a little bit, increasing his lh output.

And what when he comes off serms? Lots of people experience crash post serms. I certainly did.

Recovery takes time. I am pretty sure its not the pituitary but atrophied testicles that are the weak link in his case.

Had he run hcg throughout the cycle, he wouldnt be in issues of this scale right now.

If you intend to come off then why let the testes atrophy in the first place?

 

[Beau]

This argument won't end well ....

 

[nostrum420]

You want to argue that he wont recover without serms?
What the hell do serms do? They make the hypothalamus think estrogen levels are very low, so it produces more lh in effort to balance the hormones.

Estro is low anyway if he is severy shut down. So all serms will do is speed up his recovery a little bit, increasing his lh output.

And what when he comes off serms? Lots of people experience crash post serms. I certainly did.

Recovery takes time. I am pretty sure its not the pituitary but atrophied testicles that are the weak link in his case.

Had he run hcg throughout the cycle, he wouldnt be in issues of this scale right now.

If you intend to come off then why let the testes atrophy in the first place?

No, I'm saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater:

OP: I'm using 2 drugs of the same class and I'm experiencing a side effect commonly associated with one of them.

Me: Stop using the one with the known side effect.

You: ... "he can drop the whole PCT"

It's like if someone is taking Bismuth and Calcium Carbonate for heartburn and they're complaining of constipation. You don't stop treating the heartburn altogether, you discontinue the therapy with the known side effect.

 

[CroLifter]

No, I'm saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater:

OP: I'm using 2 drugs of the same class and I'm experiencing a side effect commonly associated with one of them.

Me: Stop using the one with the known side effect.

You: ... "he can drop the whole PCT"

It's like if someone is taking Bismuth and Calcium Carbonate for heartburn and they're complaining of constipation. You don't stop treating the heartburn altogether, you discontinue the therapy with the known side effect.

I merely said that clomid seemingly has more favourable outcomes when it comes to recovery. Anecdotally. Also, it is bein gprescribed for seconday hypogonadis, why isnt nolva prescribed?

This argument won't end well ....

Why? I simply shared my opinion. In the end he can do whatever the f he wants to, i dont care.

 

[Beau]

I merely said that clomid seemingly has more favourable outcomes when it comes to recovery. Anecdotally. Also, it is bein gprescribed for seconday hypogonadis, why isnt nolva prescribed?


Why? I simply shared my opinion. In the end he can do whatever the f he wants to, i dont care.

Well, you asked -- it is because you tend to write your opinions in a way that suggests that you think the person (the person to whom you are responding) is an idiot. It has been my experience that people don't respond well to that.

I'm out of this.

 

[nostrum420]

I merely said that clomid seemingly has more favourable outcomes when it comes to recovery. Anecdotally. Also, it is bein gprescribed for seconday hypogonadis, why isnt nolva prescribed?

It is:

"Because of its mechanism of action, tamoxifen results in the inhibition of the negative feedback of estrogen at the hypothalamus and pituitary gland, and results in the release of LH and FSH, which in turn increases testosterone biosynthesis and “stimulates” spermatogenesis."

The Role of Estrogen Modulators in Male Hypogonadism and Infertility

Estradiol, normally considered a female hormone, appears to play a significant role in men in a variety of physiologic functions, such as bone metabolism, cardiovascular health, and testicular function. As such, estradiol has been targeted by male reproductive ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Another estrogen partial antagonist Tamoxifen has been used in elevating serum LH and FSH and serum testosterone levels in infertile and hypogonadal men"

An update on male hypogonadism therapy

Men who have symptoms associated with persistently low serum total testosterone level should be assessed for testosterone replacement therapy.Acute and chronic illnesses are associated with low serum testosterone and these should be recognized and treated. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Tamoxifen citrate, when properly dosed, improves semen parameters toward the norm in male patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism."

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(15)01402-8/abstract

"20 mg tamoxifen daily
will block the breast estrogen receptors and stimulate HPG
axis recovery (60–65)."

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)00140-X/pdf

This last one being particularly poignant as the name of the paper is:
Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism: diagnosis and treatment

 

[CroLifter]

Great. I was under the impression that clomid was the drug of choice for secondary hypogonadism. Also, anecdotally, people say that clomid works better, although t is less tolerable.

this one is promising https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6193975

 

[Spookybro]

Just ditched the clomid.