CoQ10 supplementation

Ninjo

Well-known member
I have a question about supplementing with CoQ10. Assuming one is running a few oral cycles in a year, should this supplement be used year round as part of ongoing cardiovascular support or only at specific times?

Specifically, I understand that supplementing with Red Yeast Rice (1200 mg/d) will deplete your body's supply of CoQ10 and will consequently require supplementation in the way of 300 mg/d. However, I would only use RYR starting 2 weeks before a cycle, during the cycle and throughout post cycle therapy. Does this mean that supplementation with CoQ10 is only required during these periods? Or, should it be used at perhaps a lower dosage (e.g. 100 mg/d) on an ongoing basis?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Knowbull said:
30 mgs is fine for year round use I dont beleive in ryr, its potentially toxic to some people.

Can you please elaborate on this. I've never heard this before. Thanks.
 
Sure, in brief, hepatotoxic and it can induce autoimmune disorders, read about someone going into anaphylactic shock after using a small amount,( sorry no link)
 
idunk42 said:
Can you please elaborate on this. I've never heard this before. Thanks.

Idunk42: It is due to the fact RYR is a statin like many other pharmaceutical drugs and its long term use isn't advised. Again this is why I kept it out of the Cycle Support formula.

Ninjo, why don't you check out my signature for a link to Cycle Support, it is everything you need for PCT, just add it to your protein shake and you are all set. Plus it contains idebenone, which is a stronger variant of CoQ10.
 
Hi Lake,

Actually, I ordered a one month supply of your cycle support last week. I am also aware that CoQ10 supplementation will not be necessary while using your product. I was really wondering if I should use it when not on cycle or running my pct.

I was kinda wondering why you guys left RYR out of your formula and was gonna send Crowler an email enquiring about this. I had heard (read) that RYR was potentially the best safeguard against horrid lipid values while on cycle; is this incorrect? In any case, I had planned on running it along side the cycle support but now you got me thinking......
 
Ninjo said:
Hi Lake,

Actually, I ordered a one month supply of your cycle support last week. I am also aware that CoQ10 supplementation will not be necessary while using your product. I was really wondering if I should use it when not on cycle or running my post cycle therapy.

I was kinda wondering why you guys left RYR out of your formula and was gonna send Crowler an email enquiring about this. I had heard (read) that RYR was potentially the best safeguard against horrid lipid values while on cycle; is this incorrect? In any case, I had planned on running it along side the cycle support but now you got me thinking......

Glad to hear you ordered our product. Let us know how you like it but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD put it in a protein shake and don't take it by itself, we have had a lot of people lately saying how bad it tastes in water but it was specifically flavored for putting in shakes, and I can assure you if you have protein + milk you will not taste the small half dosages (half in morning and half at night) of the cycle support, just wanted to put that out there.

Here is a study on red yeast rice. It is an oustanding addition, however, we didn't want to add it since it cannot be taken long term, or isn't recommended so. It is a statin and as with any other pharmaceutical drug you don't want to take them for too long a period of time, so we decided not to put it in there.

You can take cycle support for a while as long as you know that as with finasteride, saw palmetto + nettle root (which was found to be as effective as finasteride with less side effects at the ratio we have in cycle support) are 5AR blockers and do block some DHT, this is what makes it a benefit to keeping the hairline as well as block prostate problems involved with cycles such as tren.

Cholesterol-lowering effects of a proprietary Chinese red-yeast-rice dietary supplement1,2,3,4

David Heber, Ian Yip, Judith M Ashley, David A Elashoff, Robert M Elashoff and Vay Liang W Go

Background: We examined the cholesterol-lowering effects of a proprietary Chinese red-yeast-rice supplement in an American population consuming a diet similar to the American Heart Association Step I diet using a double-blind, placebo-controlled, prospectively randomized 12-wk controlled trial at a university research center.

Objective: We evaluated the lipid-lowering effects of this red-yeast-rice dietary supplement in US adults separate from effects of diet alone.

Design: Eighty-three healthy subjects (46 men and 37 women aged 34–78 y) with hyperlipidemia [total cholesterol, 5.28–8.74 mmol/L (204–338 mg/dL); LDL cholesterol, 3.31–7.16 mmol/L (128–277 mg/dL); triacylglycerol, 0.62–2.78 mmol/L (55–246 mg/dL); and HDL cholesterol 0.78–2.46 mmol/L (30–95 mg/dL)] who were not being treated with lipid-lowering drugs participated. Subjects were treated with red yeast rice (2.4 g/d) or placebo and instructed to consume a diet providing 30% of energy from fat, <10% from saturated fat, and <300 mg cholesterol daily. Main outcome measures were total cholesterol, total triacylglycerol, and HDL and LDL cholesterol measured at weeks 8, 9, 11, and 12.

Results: Total cholesterol concentrations decreased significantly between baseline and 8 wk in the red-yeast-rice–treated group compared with the placebo-treated group [(x ± SD) 6.57 ± 0.93 mmol/L (254 ± 36 mg/dL) to 5.38 ± 0.80 mmol/L (208 ± 31 mg/dL); P < 0.001]. LDL cholesterol and total triacylglycerol were also reduced with the supplement. HDL cholesterol did not change significantly.

Conclusions: Red yeast rice significantly reduces total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and total triacylglycerol concentrations compared with placebo and provides a new, novel, food-based approach to lowering cholesterol in the general population.
 
Thanks for posting the study Lake. I suppose it would be a good idea after all to supp with RYR while using cycle support so long as I am only running it while on cycle and for post cycle therapy. And not to worry, I've read enough posts to know to throw your product into a protein shake and not consume it on its own!

Aside from Knowbull (thanks by the way!), nobody has chimed in re: using CoQ10 year round or when not supplementing with RYR. Knowbull has indicated that 30 mg/d is sufficient the rest of the time; any other opinions?
 
Ninjo said:
Thanks for posting the study Lake. I suppose it would be a good idea after all to supp with RYR while using cycle support so long as I am only running it while on cycle and for post cycle therapy. And not to worry, I've read enough posts to know to throw your product into a protein shake and not consume it on its own!

Aside from Knowbull (thanks by the way!), nobody has chimed in re: using CoQ10 year round or when not supplementing with RYR. Knowbull has indicated that 30 mg/d is sufficient the rest of the time; any other opinions?

CoQ10 should be fine but I will look more into it for you. I would also look into the idebenone variant of it as it is more potent. That is why we used it.
 
Posted by dinoiii (Dana Houser) on another forum.


ANTIHYPERTENSIVES

Unless you have a firm grip on how PS/PH/AAS have affected your blood pressure (BP), the following supplements are potentially better left alone until you establish a true baseline set of values (systolic and diastolic).

Hawthorn Berry

EVIDENCE-BASED EFFICACY: Considerable research, both in animal and human studies, supports the claims about hawthorn’s heart benefits. For example, double-blind studies of hawthorn versus placebo have shown improvements in people with heart failure, demonstrating better heart function, less shortness of breath, and fewer palpitations. In a study of thirty patients with congestive heart failure, half were given a placebo and the other half given twice daily capsules of hawthorn extract standardized to contain 15 mg procyanidin oligomers per 80 mg capsule. After 8 weeks, the hawthorn group had statistically significant improvements in heart function and lower blood pressure, with no adverse reactions observed. In a study of 78 patients with the same level of heart failure, those given 600 mg of standardized hawthorn extract were able to exercise much longer than those who received the placebo [now, before every supplement manufacturer gets excited and says boy, we got to market that – the same results have NOT been duplicated in non-heart failure patients]. Based on numerous studies, German health authorities have approved of hawthorn for treating mild heart failure, stable angina, and the slow heart rhythms known as bradycardia.

Less evidence, in animals only, is available to support hawthorn’s potential benefits in lowering cholesterol, triglyceride, and blood sugar levels. Similarly, no human research supports its use in treating insomnia, although it is known that high doses can markedly slow down the nervous system.

FORMS & DOSAGES: Hawthorn is available in many forms, including dried leaves, berries, and flowers, and in elixirs, extracts, infusions, capsules, and tinctures. Usually taken 2 or 3 times a day, the dosage depends on the type of preparation and source material. An infusion dose can be made with a teaspoon of chopped leaves and flowers. Tinctures may be recommended at 4 to 5 ml per dose. Flower extracts, standardized to contain 1.5 percent vitexin-4’-rhamnoside, may be prescribed at 100-250 mg per dose. It may take UP TO 3 MONTHS to note improvement; hawthorn may be taken indefinitely to treat chronic heart failure and other disorders.

POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS / INTERACTIONS: Toxic problems with hawthorn are NOT commonly seen and usually only have shown the potential of appearing when overdosed. In such cases, dangerously low blood pressure and sedation may occur. However, because of its potent effects, it should be used with care and only under the supervision of physicians experienced in its impact (unfortunately this is very few). In particular, its use with other heart medication is a serious problem. We’ll use beta-blockers as an example. Because beta-blockers lower blood pressure by reducing cardiac output, simultaneous use of hawthorn may produce a mild RISE in blood pressure (remember, how much I have spoken at length about autoregulatory effects). In contrast, hawthorn can markedly INCREASE the effects of digitalis and other herbs containing cardiac glycosides to enhance their effects. When used with prescription heart drugs, the dosage of the LATTER can be lowered. It should be noted that hawthorn will NOT stop an angina attack.

__________________________________________________ _

Celery

Its diuretic action of the active ingredient (3-n-butyl phthalide) may be left for late PCT time if you are opting to use concurrent cell volumizers.

__________________________________________________ _

CoQ10

EVIDENCE-BASED EFFICACY: Several well-regarded studies indicate that adding CoQ10 supplements to the conventional regimen for treating cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure show MORE improvement than with medications alone. In a study involving more than 2,500 heart patients in Italy, 80% experienced reduced symptoms (shortness of breath, swelling of the legs and feet, difficulty sleeping) after 3 months of taking CoQ10. It is also a standard treatment of congestive heart failure in Japan. However, the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology do NOT advocate CoQ10 as a treatment for heart disease. In any event, CoQ10 should NOT be taken as a substitute for prescribed medication to treat heart failure or any other cardiovascular disease, and if you do take it as part of an overall treatment program, be sure to tell your doctor that you are taking it.

Several studies are underway to investigate whether Co Q10 may help slow the progression of degenerative nerve diseases, such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s, as well as fibromyalgia. Though claims abound concerning CoQ10’s ability to slow aging, reduce fatigue, and improve the quality of life for AIDS patients, promote healing of periodontal disease, and even aid weight loss, more study is needed to document whether it really works in these instances.

FORMS & DOSAGES: CoQ10 typically comes in tablet or pill form, but is also available as a liquid or softgel capsule. It’s even found in some skin creams. Doses thought to be effect for heart disease range from about 100 to 360 mg / day. One small study found that people with cardiomyopathy who took 100 mg or CoQ10 per day, in addition to regular therapy, showed significant improvement compared to those who received a placebo. In another study, a significant number of patients given CoQ10 were able to reduce the number of heart medications they were taking.

POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS / INTERACTIONS: There are NO reports of side effects from CoQ10 supplements.

Dinoiii’s Tip(s):
(1) Take your CoQ10 supp with a MINIMUM of a teaspoon of oil mixed in a protein shake. This should aid + increase its absorption potential.
(2) If taking either a beta-blocker or statin drug OR red yeast rice supplement, there is a potential of dramatic decreases in CoQ10 levels in the body. People who take either of these medications (while NOT advised to be on PH/PS/AAS in the first place) should consult with a health care provider to see if CoQ10 supplementation is advisable.
 
Hi Guys,

I am not one to defend the pharma industry, but there are millions of people on long term statins (including me).

There is a lot of evidence of problems with CoQ10 depletion due to the statin (in fact Merck patented a mix drug statin/coq10 which was never released). However, the general belief by modern medicine is that it is fine to take statins for long periods, otherwise.

I supplement with 50 mg CoQ10 BID.

Regards,
R
 
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