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Considering MassMax XT but...

muscleupcrohn said:
Since this thread doesn’t want to die, and I can’t believe you lack the critical thinking ability to understand this, or you’re just playing dumb:

-You are a competitor, which means that anything you claim about competitions products is inherently going to come off as biased, so you should do everything you can to show it is not, but instead you do just about everything possible to make your “testing” as biased and riddled with conflicts of interest as possible.

-It looks like your company is based out of New York? Am I wrong there? Performax is also based out of the United States, but to test the product, you sent it to a lab in Uzbekistan. Please correct me if I’m wrong here.

-Not only did you, a US-based company, send a product from the US halfway across the world for some reason, but you sent it to literally the only lab that has not one, but two direct conflicts of interest. For one, they produce their own ecdysterone, so any product that uses ecdysterone not from them is a competitor, or at least using a competitor’s ecdysterone.

-Not only does the lab sell their own ecdysterone, but they happen to be the company that your company buys your ecdysterone from, which is a massive, glaring conflict of interest.

If you had sent it to LITERALLY ANY OTHER LAB IN THE WORLD it would have been at least not quite so laughable.

TL;DR:
New York based company sends California based competitor’s product to be tested at lab in Uzbekistan that happens to sell their own ecdysterone that the first company happens to buy from them. Yeah, clearly nothing wrong with that picture.
Click to expand...

Yes I totally agree with you on this one, but at the same time since you have some proof why Don t just show it? Will it gave competition and edge in any way or form?
 
We are not really interested, well in my case about the competitors answer's, just a proof it contains ecdy. We the consumer can t be blame asking about it, the ecdy, turk , urss study only in Russia thing, have been going on for years! I remember it at the BB forum between universal and thermo life about the turk content in m stack
 
muscleupcrohn,

I guess, if it was tested at Chromadex, you'd say how we know it was indeed massmax, if it was tested in Europe : why Europe, the raws were sourced in Asia and the stuff should be tested in accordance with some specific "Asian" testing protocol :) Just kidding.
The reason why we did the testing outside US is the same as why US companies source their raws in Asia - lower costs.You call the tests laughable...ok, your conspiracy theory has some logic. But, at the same time, it's been 1 year since we posted up the tests on our forum...1 year. Any company, who's product we have on that banner, could've sent their stuff to any US based lab, as you suggested, and prove the ICPS tests wrong....I guess, the batches we tested are already gone and I'm positive, all new batches produced ever since are phenomenal.


muscleupcrohn said:
Since this thread doesn’t want to die, and I can’t believe you lack the critical thinking ability to understand this, or you’re just playing dumb:

-You are a competitor, which means that anything you claim about competitions products is inherently going to come off as biased, so you should do everything you can to show it is not, but instead you do just about everything possible to make your “testing” as biased and riddled with conflicts of interest as possible.

-It looks like your company is based out of New York? Am I wrong there? Performax is also based out of the United States, but to test the product, you sent it to a lab in Uzbekistan. Please correct me if I’m wrong here.

-Not only did you, a US-based company, send a product from the US halfway across the world for some reason, but you sent it to literally the only lab that has not one, but two direct conflicts of interest. For one, they produce their own ecdysterone, so any product that uses ecdysterone not from them is a competitor, or at least using a competitor’s ecdysterone.

-Not only does the lab sell their own ecdysterone, but they happen to be the company that your company buys your ecdysterone from, which is a massive, glaring conflict of interest.

If you had sent it to LITERALLY ANY OTHER LAB IN THE WORLD it would have been at least not quite so laughable.

TL;DR:
New York based company sends California based competitor’s product to be tested at lab in Uzbekistan that happens to sell their own ecdysterone that the first company happens to buy from them for their product. Yeah, clearly nothing wrong with that picture.
Click to expand...
 
baxmax said:
muscleupcrohn,

I guess, if it was tested at Chromadex, you'd say how we know it was indeed massmax, if it was tested in Europe : why Europe, the raws were sourced in Asia and the stuff should be tested in accordance with some specific "Asian" testing protocol Just kidding.
The reason why we did the testing outside US is the same as why US companies source their raws in Asia - lower costs.You call the tests laughable...ok, your conspiracy theory has some logic. But, at the same time, it's been 1 year since we posted up the tests on our forum...1 year. Any company, who's product we have on that banner, could've sent their stuff to any US based lab, as you suggested, and prove the ICPS tests wrong....I guess, the batches we tested are already gone and I'm positive, all new batches produced ever since are phenomenal.
Click to expand...
Conspiracy theory? You mean pointing out multiple glaring conflicts of interest? I said testing it at LITERALLY any other lab in the world would have been infinitely better. You could have sent it to the cheapest lab in China and it would have been less dubious. The question of chain of custody is still something that hasn’t been properly addressed or assured, but questioning that is ignoring the elephant(s) in the room that I already mentioned, so I figured why bother mentioning it.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Conspiracy theory? You mean pointing out multiple glaring conflicts of interest? I said testing it at LITERALLY any other lab in the world would have been infinitely better. You could have sent it to the cheapest lab in China and it would have been less dubious. The question of chain of custody is still something that hasn’t been properly addressed or assured, but questioning that is ignoring the elephant(s) in the room that I already mentioned, so I figured why bother mentioning it.
Click to expand...
muscleupcrohn,

Man, you keep repeating yourself. The test was an objective assessment based solely upon the results of the HPLC analysis.The tests don't lie, ICPS did an excellent job, unless you say we tainted the results/testing/ (sent something else instead of MassMax)? Subjectively, you can explain the results however you want : biased/conflict of interest. The guy who posted up this banner wasn't me and you don't need to explain me why he shouldn't trust those tests, I had to comment in this thread, because the integrity of these tests was doubted (and doubted 12 months later, after we contacted every company who's products we tested).
 
alvin1 said:
Well how come I can t see it then? It contains some, but not enough? Anyway I Don t want to start drama, but been Canadian with the exchange rate, when I buy I am really picky. I will have to past on that one. In my views the natty builder is stack with many product and by not providing what the consumer want perfomaxlabs is doing itself I disfavor.
Click to expand...

Alvin1 I specifically PMd you a week ago and told you to send me an email and I would send you the lab results after you signed an NDA, I personally reached out to a few members and offered this same thing. You stated "sounds good will do" but instead of doing that and getting to see the labs you posted in here about not being able to see them?

In October of 2017 the labs were sent directly to AM moderators, the entire Performax rep team has seen the lab results and Ive personally PMd a few member's on here to send them it as well, you being one of them.

Were not going to release company information to the public simply because some crap no name company pops up and wants to get attention for themselves. You know who else didn't 'test out', NutraBIO, AllMax, etc, I certainly don't trust those companies at all, I trust the random company with lab tests on a forum, no sign off from a chemist, that look like they were made on Word.
 
baxmax said:
muscleupcrohn,

Man, you keep repeating yourself. The test was an objective assessment based solely upon the results of the HPLC analysis.The tests don't lie, ICPS did an excellent job, unless you say we tainted the results/testing/ (sent something else instead of MassMax)? Subjectively, you can explain the results however you want : biased/conflict of interest. The guy who posted up this banner wasn't me and you don't need to explain me why he shouldn't trust those tests, I had to comment in this thread, because the integrity of these tests was doubted (and doubted 12 months later, after we contacted every company who's products we tested).
Click to expand...
If the following overview of the events sounds objective to you, I suggest you buy a dictionary:

New York based company sends California based competitor’s product to be tested at lab in Uzbekistan that happens to sell their own ecdysterone that the first company happens to buy from them for their product.

Masquerading this clearly biased farce as objective analysis is asinine.
 
Little confused here, why is NutraBio being mentioned in this and where are you claiming we don't "test out"? I hope I'm just misreading some sarcasm. We're literally known for our commitment to quality and purity over the last 22 years.

We have our own site checkmysupps.com where 3rd party lab analysis is posted from every single batch that leaves our manufacturing facility.
Stack3d has certified our protein for meeting label claim, and we just signed on for their new full line certification (testing results will be available soon from them)
Tiger Fitness certified we met label claim on their certification program as well.

For more information check our youtube video form our CEO on our full in-house and 3rd party testing program for incoming ingredients and post manufacturing batches.

I hope I put this to bed for you guys. Let me know
 
Adizzle1 said:
Alvin1 I specifically PMd you a week ago and told you to send me an email and I would send you the lab results after you signed an NDA, I personally reached out to a few members and offered this same thing. You stated "sounds good will do" but instead of doing that and getting to see the labs you posted in here about not being able to see them?

In October of 2017 the labs were sent directly to AM moderators, the entire Performax rep team has seen the lab results and Ive personally PMd a few member's on here to send them it as well, you being one of them.

Were not going to release company information to the public simply because some crap no name company pops up and wants to get attention for themselves. You know who else didn't 'test out', NutraBIO, AllMax, etc, I certainly don't trust those companies at all, I trust the random company with lab tests on a forum, no sign off from a chemist, that look like they were made on Word.
Click to expand...
Adizzle1,

Gents, I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I know you are a very big name in this industry, people should just get the stuff and trust your write up's on the site, especially the one that said "MassMass XT contains a plant extract standardized to 20-hydroxyecdysone at 40%." Why this part got removed right after I emailed you about the results? This write-up still can be found on some websites.
I really like how your reps don't even mention the 40% of Ecdysterone.
NDA? You do 3rd party testing or not? Since you are so BIG AND KNOWN,I bet you have a QC department and you should have a 3rd party testing confirming 40% of Ecdy for that batch and it shouldn't be a problem to post it up.
 
Everyone involved in this thread, remember what I said about no drama? Keep that in mind... and baxmax you’re skating on super thin ice here so I’d be extremely careful how you proceed. This isn’t a forum for a pissing match between two competing companies.
 
extrabeef said:
Little confused here, why is NutraBio being mentioned in this and where are you claiming we don't "test out"? I hope I'm just misreading some sarcasm. We're literally known for our commitment to quality and purity over the last 22 years.

We have our own site checkmysupps.com where 3rd party lab analysis is posted from every single batch that leaves our manufacturing facility.
Stack3d has certified our protein for meeting label claim, and we just signed on for their new full line certification (testing results will be available soon from them)
Tiger Fitness certified we met label claim on their certification program as well.

For more information check our youtube video form our CEO on our full in-house and 3rd party testing program for incoming ingredients and post manufacturing batches.

I hope I put this to bed for you guys. Let me know
Click to expand...
extrabeef,

They meant Nutrabio's Tribulus.
batch # 224747A
We tested it for Protodioscin (Results : Protodioscin wasn't detected.)
Nutrabio is a very honest company.

Download the PDF for that batch on Invalid Link Removed
Total Saponins 53.52 mg
Their label claim : 500 mg of Tribulus per cap, 60 % of steroidal Saponins (should be 300 mg)..

That's the test they did and posted up and we tested it for Protodioscin, which cam back negative as well.
 
Appreciate the quick and honest reply. Where are your test results posted up?

Admin Ari Gold, if this isn't appropriate we can take this to PMs
 
baxmax said:
Adizzle1,

Gents, I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I know you are a very big name in this industry, people should just get the stuff and trust your write up's on the site, especially the one that said "MassMass XT contains a plant extract standardized to 20-hydroxyecdysone at 40%." Why this part got removed right after I emailed you about the results? This write-up still can be found on some websites.
I really like how your reps don't even mention the 40% of Ecdysterone.
NDA? You do 3rd party testing or not? Since you are so BIG AND KNOWN,I bet you have a QC department and you should have a 3rd party testing confirming 40% of Ecdy for that batch and it shouldn't be a problem to post it up.
Click to expand...

You mean in October when we did our entire rebrand, every label was updated, every single write up was changed, entire new website etc. Yea we did that cause your email ;)
 
Understood. Looks like our spec sheet only included total tribulus and not the %. We’re recalling, and auditing all botanicals right now. Just got off the phone with Mark Glazier, we brought the lab staff in today. We appreciate the catch, let me send you a bottle!

My question still remains however. You said you tested this and it came up negative, and seconded it with our testing. Where is your testing? Why was our product being randomly tested?

The product was pulled from the site already, if anyone has any questions or concerns please PM me!
 
extrabeef said:
Understood. Looks like our spec sheet only included total tribulus and not the %. We’re recalling, and auditing all botanicals right now. Just got off the phone with Mark Glazier, we brought the lab staff in today. We appreciate the catch, let me send you a bottle!

My question still remains however. You said you tested this and it came up negative, and seconded it with our testing. Where is your testing? Why was our product being randomly tested?

The product was pulled from the site already, if anyone has any questions or concerns please PM me!
Click to expand...
It looks like their company has a habit of sending competitor’s products to a lab in Uzbekistan (ICPS) to be tested. Said lab also happens to often sell the ingredients they’re testing for, and ******** (the company paying to do the “testing”) just so happens to buy ingredient(s) from them for their products. Clearly no conflict of interest there, right?
 
extrabeef said:
Understood. Looks like our spec sheet only included total tribulus and not the %. We’re recalling, and auditing all botanicals right now. Just got off the phone with Mark Glazier, we brought the lab staff in today. We appreciate the catch, let me send you a bottle!

My question still remains however. You said you tested this and it came up negative, and seconded it with our testing. Where is your testing? Why was our product being randomly tested?

The product was pulled from the site already, if anyone has any questions or concerns please PM me!
Click to expand...
extrabeef,

According to the label, Nutrabio's Tribulus, batch # 224747A, contains Tribulus Terrestris extract (min 60% of steroidal saponins) Your 3rd party testing says 50 mg or approximately 10%.
I can't share any links, cuz I'mn not a sponsor of this board.
It was tested for protodioscin content, but you may not trust our testing, you had yours done and posted a while ago.
 
baxmax said:
extrabeef,

According to the label, Nutrabio's Tribulus, batch # 224747A, contains Tribulus Terrestris extract (min 60% of steroidal saponins) Your 3rd party testing says 50 mg or approximately 10%.
I can't share any links, cuz I'mn not a sponsor of this board.
It was tested for protodioscin content, but you may not trust our testing, you had yours done and posted a while ago.
Click to expand...

Yes sir. We’re owning it, and locating a new vendor. I’m still confused about why you were testing it though.
 
Transparency in the supplement industry has been slow to evolve. Proprietary blends, then full disclosure of all ingredients, and now published laboratory testing of supplement ingredients. With the price of supplements being as high as they are, the more information available to the consumer the better.
 
slickwillie said:
Transparency in the supplement industry has been slow to evolve. Proprietary blends, then full disclosure of all ingredients, and now published laboratory testing of supplement ingredients. With the price of supplements being as high as they are, the more information available to the consumer the better.
Click to expand...

Price is $48 or higher now WHAAAAT.
 
Adizzle1 said:
Alvin1 I specifically PMd you a week ago and told you to send me an email and I would send you the lab results after you signed an NDA, I personally reached out to a few members and offered this same thing. You stated "sounds good will do" but instead of doing that and getting to see the labs you posted in here about not being able to see them?

In October of 2017 the labs were sent directly to AM moderators, the entire Performax rep team has seen the lab results and Ive personally PMd a few member's on here to send them it as well, you being one of them.

Were not going to release company information to the public simply because some crap no name company pops up and wants to get attention for themselves. You know who else didn't 'test out', NutraBIO, AllMax, etc, I certainly don't trust those companies at all, I trust the random company with lab tests on a forum, no sign off from a chemist, that look like they were made on Word.
Click to expand...

And I send you and email on august 11 at 7h36 pm for you to send me the proof, check your junk mail or send me a pm so I can gave you my email adress.

Thank you
 
alvin1 said:
And I send you and email on august 11 at 7h36 pm for you to send me the proof, check your junk mail or send me a pm so I can gave you my email adress.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Nothing received, checked spam. Also tried sending PMs but your box is full. Let me know.
 
alvin1 said:
What is a DNA?
Click to expand...

DNA is what was found on Monica Lewinsky’s dress.

NDA means non-disclosure agreement. NDAs have been in the news of late. NDAs are what folks are required to sign if they want to work for Trump, or if they want to receive hush money (e.g., Stormy Daniels).
 
Some of you are making my head spin.

First, you want to see lab results. This is offered to you, via email, if you sign a NDA. And now that is an issue. It seems like some of you are going to complain (probably not the right word) or find something to nit pick about. You're going to see the labs.
 
.just send me what I need to sign so I can see it. PM me, I will send you my Hotmail. Thank you

I have no issue with the confidential form!
 
I'm also shocked this thread is still going.

For what it's worth, I made only slightly less weight gain on 8 weeks of MassMax (7.5lbs lean, no waist change) compared to 5 weeks of DMZ so far (~10lbs lean, no waist change), on a very similar (possibly the same, if I remember correctly) macronutrient intake. That's legit results if you ask me for an OTC supp. I'm actually debating getting a bottle for PCT. Obviously the DMZ gains are going to continue to rise being that I have another 2-3 weeks left, but still.
 
in the era of "gofundme" i'm surprised someone hasn't started one to test supplements - any lab can tell you everything you want to know about any pill or powder you send them. it's usually a few thousand bucks (under 5 usually).

in this particular case, after mr. danes posted, i did some digging on icps - is it correct that the icps is an educational institution with some government involvement, designed to guarantee the quality of the plants/extracts grown in the area (national commerce related)? apparently, you can grow most stuff, anywhere (china), but due to the geographical differences (soil, altitude, weather, etc...) you get different results for the amount of chemicals that the plant contains? that may be just marketing though, i have no idea - has chinese stuff ever tested out at the reference level? Danes
 
DaeshDontSurf said:
in the era of "gofundme" i'm surprised someone hasn't started one to test supplements - any lab can tell you everything you want to know about any pill or powder you send them. it's usually a few thousand bucks (under 5 usually).

in this particular case, after mr. danes posted, i did some digging on icps - is it correct that the icps is an educational institution with some government involvement, designed to guarantee the quality of the plants/extracts grown in the area (national commerce related)? apparently, you can grow most stuff, anywhere (china), but due to the geographical differences (soil, altitude, weather, etc...) you get different results for the amount of chemicals that the plant contains? that may be just marketing though, i have no idea - has chinese stuff ever tested out at the reference level? Danes
Click to expand...
First of all, I am huge ICPS fan.been that since late 90s and I am still. If you search my username and search ICPS too, you will see I mention ICPS as trusted and good source of ecdysteroids.

ICPS has studied, researched, extracted, synthesized etc ecdysteroids since late 50s and their knowledge and quality about/of ecdysteroids is leading on the market.
Example, Ajuga Turkestanica sold by ICPS is containing 10% Turkesterone, 10% Ecdysterone and 10% other ecdysteroids. No other plants have so much Turkesterone and no other Ajuga either with that amount of Turkesterone.
The price is solid but you get what you pay for.

Chinese vendors can be tricky. Have seen plenty of their HPLC lab tests but after lab testing,, the % of ecdysterone or other ecdysteroids was little to none.
 
blongo804 said:
I'm also shocked this thread is still going.

For what it's worth, I made only slightly less weight gain on 8 weeks of MassMax (7.5lbs lean, no waist change) compared to 5 weeks of DMZ so far (~10lbs lean, no waist change), on a very similar (possibly the same, if I remember correctly) macronutrient intake. That's legit results if you ask me for an OTC supp. I'm actually debating getting a bottle for PCT. Obviously the DMZ gains are going to continue to rise being that I have another 2-3 weeks left, but still.
Click to expand...

That's impressive and may make it worthwhile for me to give a shot.
 
rascal14 said:
That's impressive and may make it worthwhile for me to give a shot.
Click to expand...

And it's the truth too! Really was happy with MassMax overall. Didn't start seeing strength gains until 5 weeks in, but when they happened, they happened very obviously.
 
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