Confusing Symptoms/Side Effects

kenpoengineer said:
Did you guys see that new research indicates vitamin D3 is effective at protecting against colds and flu?
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I missed this, but D3 has a ton of interesting research behind it. I have been taking 10,000 iu per day for the last few months after spending 30 days at 20,000 ok.
 
Just watched a Netflix documentary on plant based diet helping some people eliminate all health issues have you heard of this.
 
patrick25 said:
Just watched a Netflix documentary on plant based diet helping some people eliminate all health issues have you heard of this.
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Are you talking about the movie called “What the Health”? I call it the vegan propaganda film. Read this article about the movie.

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patrick25 said:
Just watched a Netflix documentary on plant based diet helping some people eliminate all health issues have you heard of this.
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sammpedd88 said:
Are you talking about the movie called “What the Health”? I call it the vegan propaganda film. Read this article about the movie.

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Yeah, I think people have fallen for so much propaganda around vegetarianism and much worse, veganism. The fact is that, yes, there are some benefits - but there are downsides too.

It is funny how the assumption is that you can get all the nutrients you need from plants...which is CLOSE to true, in theory - but in reality it would require incredible dedication to really get 100% of the benefits that you get by including a small amount if meat/fish.

Iron and B12 are always mentioned as being necessary supplements on such a diet (but why if the food can provide everything?).

But what about conditional nutrients like EPA, DHA, collagen, etc? You may not need these because, in theory your body makes the., but lots of people see tremendous benefits from exogenous sources even though we make them anyway .
 
In my opinion they did a hell of a job selling this everything from just look at your teeth your not a meat eater to the guy leaping like a monkey from bar to bar yelling I'm a plant based eater I thought I was watching the holy grail of life. And what original poster has said with symptoms I was thinking maybe it's Nutrition because they were curing people with it. But I'll take my plant based eater shirt off my amazon list lol.
 
I haven’t seen the film, but have friends (husband and wife couple) that watched it and they went vegetarian. They do eat fish and dairy. I laugh because they got sucked in! They are very healthy and both are personal trainers. Diet has never been a problem for them. I have not problem with people being vegan, but the way this film goes about it is ridiculous!!
 
patrick25 said:
In my opinion they did a hell of a job selling this everything from just look at your teeth your not a meat eater to the guy leaping like a monkey from bar to bar yelling I'm a plant based eater I thought I was watching the holy grail of life. And what original poster has said with symptoms I was thinking maybe it's Nutrition because they were curing people with it. But I'll take my plant based eater shirt off my amazon list lol.
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And you may be right - it could be nutritional. Nutrition is extremely complex. People don't realize just how many chemicals we get from different sources of food. We are big buckets of chemicals and we need to get those chemicals from somewhere. Plants are one very good source of many of these chemicals. Increasing your intake of veggies is rarely a bad idea. But eliminating something that is as nutritious as meat and fish, or even worse - milk and eggs - from your diet entirely is a completely different story.

And of course, there is the "I don't want to kill animals" angle, which at least isn't based in faulty logic saying it is healthy.
 
Update:
According to this:
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Too little sodium can cause insomnia!
What prompted me to look for that was last night I had my typical bout of waking every hour, then just awake from 3-4am, around 4am I had some mild heart burn so I took a dose of sodium bicarbonate. Within 15 minutes I was fast asleep until my alarm buzzed at 5:30. Just that extra hour of super deep sleep felt fantastic. I’m guessing the past 3 weeks of keto, I was just not getting enough sodium even though I supplemented 3 grams extra per day. I’m off keto as of Sunday until I get all my health issues back on track, and apparently even without keto I need more salt. Hopefully this accounts for the night sweats too, but I did have e2 sensitive pulled yesterday just in case.

Still figuring out the laryngopharyngeal reflux, hoping it’s over too now as I haven’t had an episode after lunch yet. We’ll see.
 
patrick25 said:
In my opinion they did a hell of a job selling this everything from just look at your teeth your not a meat eater to the guy leaping like a monkey from bar to bar yelling I'm a plant based eater I thought I was watching the holy grail of life. And what original poster has said with symptoms I was thinking maybe it's Nutrition because they were curing people with it. But I'll take my plant based eater shirt off my amazon list lol.
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It was ridiculously biased. Actually look at your teeth. Your canines can tear through flesh. Idc if someone wants to be a vegetarian or whatever, but that film was a joke.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Update:
According to this:
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Too little sodium can cause insomnia!
What prompted me to look for that was last night I had my typical bout of waking every hour, then just awake from 3-4am, around 4am I had some mild heart burn so I took a dose of sodium bicarbonate. Within 15 minutes I was fast asleep until my alarm buzzed at 5:30. Just that extra hour of super deep sleep felt fantastic. I’m guessing the past 3 weeks of keto, I was just not getting enough sodium even though I supplemented 3 grams extra per day. I’m off keto as of Sunday until I get all my health issues back on track, and apparently even without keto I need more salt. Hopefully this accounts for the night sweats too, but I did have e2 sensitive pulled yesterday just in case.

Still figuring out the laryngopharyngeal reflux, hoping it’s over too now as I haven’t had an episode after lunch yet. We’ll see.
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Yes! Electrolyte imbalance can wreak havoc with all kinds of things. Everyone thinks cramps with electrolyte imbalance, but often neurological symptoms are the result of this issue.
 
HIT4ME said:
Yes! Electrolyte imbalance can wreak havoc with all kinds of things. Everyone thinks cramps with electrolyte imbalance, but often neurological symptoms are the result of this issue.
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Yeah, nobody talks about being super stimulated and insomnia (night sweats too?) from not enough salt! It’s a weird feeling.
 
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With a sensitive e2 of 19, could I still be experiencing symptoms such as night sweats, insomnia, breathing abnormalities, fatigue, etc?

To clarify, that would’ve been the peak, not trough.
 
I had iron, iron saturation, ferritin, thyroid, and estrogens pulled today as well. Hopefully I get those results quickly as this whole thing is exhausting.

Current symptoms: night sweats, insomnia, lower body cramps, breathless, greasy skin/breaking out, flushing/hot face and ears, cracked corners of mouth (iron again?). I remember the days when all I felt was some chest flutters. That’s was easy back then.

I started ksm-66 yesterday at 300mg morning and night. I’m probably going to add Maca back in because it seems relatively harmless and should treat some of these symptoms if they are related to low e2. I’m going to try 2-3g of taurine when I wake up with the insomnia tonight. I have a feeling that’ll help, last night 2 grams separated by an hour seemed to work, except it may have been coincidental.

Hesitant to just start supplementing iron because I still have a leftover cough from the flu last week. I’ve read that iron supplementation during infection can make the infection worse.
 
Hmmm - are you taking any prescription medications? Are you taking any anti-histamines?

Edit: or asthma medications?
 
HIT4ME said:
Hmmm - are you taking any prescription medications? Are you taking any anti-histamines?

Edit: or asthma medications?
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Losartan, testosterone, and synthroid.
No asthma medications.
Why?
I’ve wondered if losartan could have increased bradykinin too high causing some breathing issues. I am supposed to switch to 20mg telmisartan but hesitant while I have all these symptoms.
 
I am wondering, based on your symptoms, if there is some connection with seratonin syndrome or antiacetylcholine toxicity. It isn't direct, something is missing...but my brain is making a connection. And there is this:

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HIT4ME said:
I am wondering, based on your symptoms, if there is some connection with seratonin syndrome or antiacetylcholine toxicity. It isn't direct, something is missing...but my brain is making a connection. And there is this:

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Well, I have been considering coming off losartan completely and seeing what my blood pressure and hematocrit look like without it. From what Ive read, there’s no rebound hypertension with losartan withdrawal, so it should only increase to wherever it should ‘normally’ sit. Right now it averages 130’s over 70’s. But it’s been that even when I was in my 20’s before meds. I’m not even sure 25mg is even doing anything.
 
Never mind, lol, not completely coming off BP meds as it was just 138/69 after calmly sitting for 8 minutes (it was 148/76 after 5 minutes only). Granted, as soon as I sit down to take my blood pressure my anxiety goes up and I’m sure my BP follows. I’ll probably switch to telmisartan tomorrow and start Maca as well again.
 
Update: GERD/LPR symptoms have improved dramatically since getting off the keto diet and starting ashwagandha and Maca. I’m not sure which helped the symptoms, but probably all of it. I’ve also dropped my p5p/b6 dose dramatically as that was causing issues.

I’ve also stopped all blood pressure meds as of 6 days ago and blood pressure is holding at 128/78, so either 25mg losartan wasn’t doing anything or it hasn’t completely gotten out of my system.

The only symptoms that still linger is sleep maintenance insomnia and this bizarre breathing issue, well and getting sick again probably due to not sleeping. I’m pretty sure the waking up 2-3 hours after sleeping is from nighttime cortisol surges. It started about a week after ceasing DHEA and all the adaptogens.

I started sleeping better after adding the ashwagandha (in the form of ksm-66) and Maca, but it didn’t work for more than a few days which could be because I switched the ksm-66 at night for Sensoril or because I increased my P5p dose too high. Either way, tonight I’ll use ksm-66 and stick to the lower p5p dose, and take 100-200mg theanine before bed as well with 3mg time release melatonin. I’ve read theanine can reduce cortisol about 3 hours after ingestion, which is exactly when I pop awake at about 1am. We’ll see what happens.

I’ll be adding DHEA in again probably tomorrow but I’m nervous as I’ve had weird overstimulated reactions to it.
 
I would hold off on the DHEA while you are trying to get things in line again. Just my opinion though.

I think I said this before but ZMA before sleep REALLY has an impact on me staying asleep. It doesn't help me get to sleep but I have noticed that when I don't take it I tend to wake up more throughout the night, and when I take it I stay asleep.

Another ingredient I think helps dramatically with sleep in this way is Glycine.
 
Oh...and I know everyone loves their Ashwagandha, but I am fairly convinced that most of it is placebo and the effects it has, of any, are minor on their own.
 
Gotcha. I don’t know that ZMA could turn off the wide awake feeling I get, as it’s pretty extreme. Taking taurine, lemon balm and valerian didn’t touch it last night. 1mg of melatonin can put me back out for another couple hours but I don’t think it’s good to take that at 3am, for fear of screwing with my circadian rhythm. On the other, it’s obviously so screwed up it might not matter. I started agmatine again today as well, so hopefully that helps keep me relaxed and asleep as well. My stack is almost exactly what it was when I felt “fine enough” about 2 months ago.

How much zinc is okay in a day? I’ve already taken 20mg and don’t want to overdo it with the ZMA. I’m also concerned the extra b6 might cause more issues similar to what the p5p did.

Your probably right about the DHEA. But, my levels were like 49 (range of 150-450 or something like that), and I wonder if taking DHEA for a couple months suppressed that more, and I’m dealing with rebound/screwed cortisol > DHEA ratio.

I have 500mg tryptophan as well I could try...thoughts on the middle of the night melatonin or tryptophan?
 
Magnesium is an essential and underestimated nutrient. A large portion of the population is deficient and without it, a lot of other nutrients and functions can't work appropriately.

Even if you don't take the zinc with it, magnesium may help. I wouldn't over do zinc, but a double dose for one day shouldnt be a big concern.
 
Just because it occurred to me...check out the first hit in Google for magnesium deficiency symptoms:

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I’ve been taking magnesium citrate at 300-450mg daily for at least a month, and only had like 2 weeks off before that, and before that took 400mg of different types (ZMA, glycinate, etc) for years. I did order magnesium Malate which will be here tomorrow.

I just saw that zinc inhibits cortisol release, so before bed I’ll also take 15mg zinc and 300mg magnesium citrate.

No thoughts on middle of the night melatonin safety?
 
GreenMachineX said:
I’ve been taking magnesium citrate at 300-450mg daily for at least a month, and only had like 2 weeks off before that, and before that took 400mg of different types (ZMA, glycinate, etc) for years. I did order magnesium Malate which will be here tomorrow.

I just saw that zinc inhibits cortisol release, so before bed I’ll also take 15mg zinc and 300mg magnesium citrate.

No thoughts on middle of the night melatonin safety?
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Not sure about the melatonin. I think most products are actually over dosed, but I've not used it much. Have you ever monitored blood glucose levels? I wonder if you have dips in glucose while you sleep and that causes a cortisol release? I am reaching here I know...

Wish I had more ideas...I seem to be striking out.
 
HIT4ME said:
Not sure about the melatonin. I think most products are actually over dosed, but I've not used it much. Have you ever monitored blood glucose levels? I wonder if you have dips in glucose while you sleep and that causes a cortisol release? I am reaching here I know...

Wish I had more ideas...I seem to be striking out.
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I wondered about glucose dropping too low, and one time I tested it but it was hours into the insomnia episode at about 6am, so it was 80 or 90, can’t remember exactly but I recall it wasn’t anything extraordinary. But, since it was so long I’m sure my whatever was keeping me awake (cortisol or adrenaline) did it’s job.

Didn’t fall asleep until midnight last night even with 3mg timed release melatonin at 10pm. Took an assortment of stuff all night totaling 400mg theanine, 4 grams taurine, 400mg lemon Balm. Still woke up at 2am.
1mg Melatonin worked then but not the second time last night, and was up from 3-5am, so I had the idea that maybe I’m still suffering overmethylation so I used 50mg niacin and was asleep 30 minutes later. On the Phoenix Rising forums, niacin is used to stop overmethylation symptoms and sensitize the brain to GABA. Coincidental or not, at least I got back to sleep and I think I totaled 4 hours last night.

I’m pretty sick of this. I seem to have traded emotional instability, anxiety, etc for insomnia. Being that a couple of days with sufficient sleep gives me flu-like symptoms, I think I’d rather have what I was dealing with before.
 
I’m also wondering if my e2 has just dipped too low again, because when it does is when my left knee starts feeling inflamed (had ACL surgery on it 9 years ago). Usually I don’t have any vascularity when my e2 dips too low and I have plenty(a lot for a fat guy actually), but some supplement in my stack before could’ve been preventing it too. All the parameters are different now, especially with a different multi. I had no idea a multi could be so powerful.
 
Only way to tell is through bloodwork. How much AI are you taking and when is your next bloodwork?
 
kenpoengineer said:
Only way to tell is through bloodwork. How much AI are you taking and when is your next bloodwork?
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No AI in 5 months, and I’ve had trouble making enough e2 the past entire 5 months at varying test dosages. My new theory is excessive doses of p5p lowers my e2 too low which I’ve read around the internetz.

I have a consult on Tuesday to go over e2, ferritin, mthfr, and some other stuff from labs drawn about 10 days ago. But, that e2 won’t reflect what’s going on now as I had several decent days during that period (and I had an e2 sensitive of 19 5 days before those labs.)
 
Went ahead and bought another sensitive e2 test so I’ll get that pulled today or tomorrow to confirm if e2 is causing the insomnia which again sucked last night. I laid down around 8pm and got up at 5:30am and between taking a bunch of stuff and giving it enough time, I actually totaled 6-7 hours last night. Not great, but don’t feel as bad today.
 
Newest labs are in! And everything looks pretty good actually. Obviously my current insomnia bout isn’t from hormones so I believe it’s uncontrolled histamine again. I don’t have the mthfr mutation so I’ll be switching my multi back to Orange Triad for now as it has several immune boosters and antihistamines. I’m also starting chamomile caps twice a day and drinking peppermint tea twice a day, both which are also antihistamines. In addition to the histamine issue, I have an upper respiratory infection again due to lack of sleep. My doctor did prescribe trazodone but I’m weary about using that while using supplements as well like ksm-66, Maca, chamomile, etc. I want to see if my antihistamine protocol gets me sleeping again in a few days and if not, then I’ll start either that or test out Benadryl.
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Looking back over this...I have the exact same thing happening again. Barely sleeping, anxiety, bizarre overstimulation... don't know what I did last time to fix it...
 
How much Vitamin D do you take every day again?
 
Interesting. Have you had your levels tested?
 
HIT4ME said:
Interesting. Have you had your levels tested?
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Yeah, they're floating between 59-73... within range according to lab ranges. I thought that was it too, but even a week off it didn't help. I went back through this thread and recall that eventually I got to stability through the right combination of b vitamins , but that doesn't seem to be the case this time. I haven't exactly tried what I used for years after but very close to it and had brain fog for hours every night. For the record, only the anxiety fit with low estrogen... the rest of the symptoms were related to this histamine/methylation thing.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yeah, they're floating between 59-73... within range according to lab ranges. I thought that was it too, but even a week off it didn't help. I went back through this thread and recall that eventually I got to stability through the right combination of b vitamins , but that doesn't seem to be the case this time. I haven't exactly tried what I used for years after but very close to it and had brain fog for hours every night. For the record, only the anxiety fit with low estrogen... the rest of the symptoms were related to this histamine/methylation thing.
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I was wrong about this estrogen thing too. I've dialed back the methylfolate dosage and anxiety is basically gone. Hopefully I can sleep tonight...
 
GreenMachineX said:
I was wrong about this estrogen thing too. I've dialed back the methylfolate dosage and anxiety is basically gone. Hopefully I can sleep tonight...
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Yeah, that Vitamin D is perfect. I was wondering if you either had too much - notice I sleep better with sufficient Vitamin D but my tolerance of thi gs like caffeine plummets as well and small amounts start hitting harder - or too little which is known to cause insomnia. I know you take it, but I was wondering g if it could be too much or maybe you had an absorption issue. So much for easy answers, obviously it has nothing to do with this.

Hopefully the reduced methylfolate continues to help. Did you get some sleep?
 
HIT4ME said:
Yeah, that Vitamin D is perfect. I was wondering if you either had too much - notice I sleep better with sufficient Vitamin D but my tolerance of thi gs like caffeine plummets as well and small amounts start hitting harder - or too little which is known to cause insomnia. I know you take it, but I was wondering g if it could be too much or maybe you had an absorption issue. So much for easy answers, obviously it has nothing to do with this.

Hopefully the reduced methylfolate continues to help. Did you get some sleep?
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Thanks man. I've been getting a little more sleep. Last night I got 8 hours, but woke up literally every 30 minutes to an hour. I would say, around 8 awakenings. I also think I'm a little b12 deficient based on how much better I sleep the days I take a little more in the morning. I'll keep experimenting. Today will be 300mcg b12 and 300mcg methylfolate. 225mcg b12 and 500mcg methylfolate kept me up all night. Hoping this is it as this was the issue years ago.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I had iron, iron saturation, ferritin, thyroid, and estrogens pulled today as well. Hopefully I get those results quickly as this whole thing is exhausting.

Current symptoms: night sweats, insomnia, lower body cramps, breathless, greasy skin/breaking out, flushing/hot face and ears, cracked corners of mouth (iron again?). I remember the days when all I felt was some chest flutters. That’s was easy back then.

I started ksm-66 yesterday at 300mg morning and night. I’m probably going to add Maca back in because it seems relatively harmless and should treat some of these symptoms if they are related to low e2. I’m going to try 2-3g of taurine when I wake up with the insomnia tonight. I have a feeling that’ll help, last night 2 grams separated by an hour seemed to work, except it may have been coincidental.

Hesitant to just start supplementing iron because I still have a leftover cough from the flu last week. I’ve read that iron supplementation during infection can make the infection worse.
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I need to get better at logging this. I have most of those symptoms listed above again...
Lower body cramps, calves swell up throughout day but fine by morning, breathlessness/air hunger, insomnia, flushing face/ears, muscle weakness (in gym at least, not normal life), tinnitus lasting all day/night, health anxiety. Another symptom is by 3pm, my skin starts to feel dry and itchy all over and gets real bad by 6pm, then wanes by bed time (histamine?)

My blood pressure is fine this go around though. The highest it's been is 130/80 and most of the time it's 120/70. That helps keep me calm and collected. I'll post what I'm taking later to log this better. Current theory though is methylation issues from methyl-b12 and methylfolate, methylation trap, or one of those 2 vitamin deficiencies. More later.
 
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