Coming off TRT.. Revisiting PCT..

RockyP

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Of course you don't, you had alpha teen numbers. You should get a blood test in a month and if still around 450 ask if you are happy with that. Lots of dudes thrive on 500
I was on 50ml per week and my T levels were always around 550 600. What I didn't like about being on T was thinking of sex and being horny a lot of the time. The clomod raised my triglycerides like crazy , what I am hoping to do is to cycle and then do clomid to restart, but I was getting the T from my insurance and unless the doctor prescribes it through the ins I won't be doing it because it would be too expensive.
 
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xR1pp3Rx

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certainly i can attribute the gym shut downs to my shoulder having this time to heal. it by no means is all better...... I do feel like the better rest and higher estrogen levels have helped grandly. sleep continues to improve. also my prostate is working better. another thing you dont notice on trt is the slow changes in piss performance.
 
bruno.camilo

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certainly i can attribute the gym shut downs to my shoulder having this time to heal. it by no means is all better...... I do feel like the better rest and higher estrogen levels have helped grandly. sleep continues to improve. also my prostate is working better. another thing you dont notice on trt is the slow changes in piss performance.
What u mean by piss performance? I am on TRT for four years now.
 
Renew1

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That might be unrelated and also affected by your diet. How much water are you drinking daily?

LOL.

No.
Not me.

I was answering the question: "Piss performance?"
 
Hyde

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certainly i can attribute the gym shut downs to my shoulder having this time to heal. it by no means is all better...... I do feel like the better rest and higher estrogen levels have helped grandly. sleep continues to improve. also my prostate is working better. another thing you dont notice on trt is the slow changes in piss performance.
That’s probably not entirely fair to say; given that you pushed a lot of extra androgens in that time I would assume the blasting is much more the culprit (and genetic response as much or more obviously). And of course, 5 more years of life went by.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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you are correct. that was not a very fair thing to postulate
 
BCseacow83

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If you need something the Iconic and Alpha Gainz 4-dhea and androstane can really help. I currently do 10mg test cyp EOD and I do 1ml Alpha Gainz 4-dhea and .5ml AG androstane with 2 pumps sustain. I actually like this better than 10mg of my cyp every day.

We went away for a short vacation and I just did not feel like bringing pins and such. I had a couple of bottles of Alpha Gainz and brought those as they are what I used when I was between doctors and insurance a couple of years ago. Now of course I felt better partly because I was on vacation with close to zero stress and spending time at state parks and in the sun while swimming in the Mississippi with my family BUT when I got home I decided to continue with the above protocol and I REALLY like it.

I hope things improve no test is crippling and should be avoided if at all possible. Take care.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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started clomid the other day. no sides to report. i feel pretty good actually. no mood swings at 25mgs eod.
 
Hyde

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Clomid has been going good for me this PCT (nearing 3 wks now). A couple caps of exem a week and things seem well managed atm.
 

CroLifter

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Keep an eye on your E2 and Triglycerides.
I just hate serms. I always cut the run short.

when the time comes to take them i start to question whether to just keep taking 100mg of test, or just run hcg and skip clomid etc etc

Occular toxicity, increased propensity to blood clots, dvt's, increased triglycerides, liver toxicity, emotional instability, anger issues...all the fun stuff that comes with using the serms
 
bruno.camilo

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I just hate serms. I always cut the run short.

when the time comes to take them i start to question whether to just keep taking 100mg of test, or just run hcg and skip clomid etc etc

Occular toxicity, increased propensity to blood clots, dvt's, increased triglycerides, liver toxicity, emotional instability, anger issues...all the fun stuff that comes with using the serms
The ideal is to start with the clomid during the end of the test cycle and keep low dosages like 25mg 2 times or 3 times a week. Since it has a long half life, like 4 days or more, its ok and there is no ocular toxicity at all at this dosage.
 
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RockyP

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I just hate serms. I always cut the run short.

when the time comes to take them i start to question whether to just keep taking 100mg of test, or just run hcg and skip clomid etc etc

Occular toxicity, increased propensity to blood clots, dvt's, increased triglycerides, liver toxicity, emotional instability, anger issues...all the fun stuff that comes with using the serms
Question: I have never cycled, do I start with whatever I was doing while on T and carry it on for 12 weeks?
 
xR1pp3Rx

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update:
so i'm getting close to being 3 months into pct. i haven't been great about clomid but with its half life im doing just fine anyhow.. i have noticed over the last 3 nights i have woken up with morning wood. excellent! mood gets better each day and soon i hope to see the gyms open up.
 
Renew1

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update:
so i'm getting close to being 3 months into pct. i haven't been great about clomid but with its half life im doing just fine anyhow.. i have noticed over the last 3 nights i have woken up with morning wood. excellent! mood gets better each day and soon i hope to see the gyms open up.
Nice, Bro!
 
Hyde

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update:
so i'm getting close to being 3 months into pct. i haven't been great about clomid but with its half life im doing just fine anyhow.. i have noticed over the last 3 nights i have woken up with morning wood. excellent! mood gets better each day and soon i hope to see the gyms open up.
Bet you haven’t missed the pins, and your blood definitely probably appreciates the clean out too! Gotta love a morning stiffy.

You could start doing some home training to restore your base of GPP. After a long layoff, you’re going to be out of shape enough to have to begin training just to get ready to train lol.

All the basic military and/or CrossFit stuff. Tabata, EMOM sets of burpees, jumping Jacks, pushups, mobility drills like the Agile 8, distance jumps, HIIT sprints or jump rope, taking 30+ min walks, . Ideally if you have something like a db or kb laying around you could do clean & press for reps & kb swings, or even fun stuff like bodybuilding isolation circuits of curls, Tri extensions, raises, upright rows, lunges. And dragging a sled or carrying anything down the street (homemade sandbag) is great too.

These are just some ideas, but if you spend 30 min every other day now just moving you will be able to roll into real lifting way easier.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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thoughtful as always brother~
 

RockyP

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Of course you don't, you had alpha teen numbers. You should get a blood test in a month and if still around 450 ask if you are happy with that. Lots of dudes thrive on 500
Ok so...got new blood work back. Total T is 363 free T is 42.8 E2 is 31 and total Estrogen 152. FSH 7 nd LH 4.4. Struggling to do anything. Gotta say depression has something to do with it too. Endo says I'm fine amd refused to prescribe T. My GP says it's low and gave me Nova. Not sure what to do next as I can't afford T outside of a prescription.
 
Hyde

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Ok so...got new blood work back. Total T is 363 free T is 42.8 E2 is 31 and total Estrogen 152. FSH 7 nd LH 4.4. Struggling to do anything. Gotta say depression has something to do with it too. Endo says I'm fine amd refused to prescribe T. My GP says it's low and gave me Nova. Not sure what to do next as I can't afford T outside of a prescription.
Nolva can take my total test over 1,000. It works great.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Ok so...got new blood work back. Total T is 363 free T is 42.8 E2 is 31 and total Estrogen 152. FSH 7 nd LH 4.4. Struggling to do anything. Gotta say depression has something to do with it too. Endo says I'm fine amd refused to prescribe T. My GP says it's low and gave me Nova. Not sure what to do next as I can't afford T outside of a prescription.
ugl test is cheaper than a script usually. you may be surprised at the affordability if you can buy in bulk.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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10 $ a vial would be difficult to beat unless you home brew your own. unless we are including the dr visit too. its common to see ugl vials from 30-40 per single and the price breaks can be good to abotu 25 per vial with say a purchase of 10 vials or more as an example. i know that online places like titan are around 800$ per 6 months.
 

RockyP

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10 $ a vial would be difficult to beat unless you home brew your own. unless we are including the dr visit too. its common to see ugl vials from 30-40 per single and the price breaks can be good to abotu 25 per vial with say a purchase of 10 vials or more as an example. i know that online places like titan are around 800$ per 6 months.
I figured that with thebins it is unbearable. I used to pay $10 for 2 vials.
 
Hyde

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Good to know. How do you feel? And any side effects?
Solid, I don’t have any perceived sides from Nolva. I was taking 40mg for 6 weeks and tested at week 8 (2 weeks after discontinuing) and I was well over 1,000 total. Maybe closer to 1,100 honestly. This was around February this year after a 13-week cycle.

I figured that with thebins it is unbearable. I used to pay $10 for 2 vials.
I would say if you can’t budget the cash to run 100mg UGL test/wk (buying a 250mg/ml 10ml bottle would last almost half a year) you probably have weak links in your finances somewhere that could make up the difference. Slin pins (using one shot per week, or honestly even every 8 days) are like $13/100 at Sam’s. That’s almost 2 years of a weekly shot.

Shift some of your grocery/dietary choices around and you can make that $90/year up pretty easily. You shouldn’t need an AI at 100mg every 7-8 days.

It’s all about what is and isn’t a priority in your life. I’m definitely not saying TRT should be, at all - I just want you to realize if you really want something, there are usually ways to make it happen.
 

RockyP

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Solid, I don’t have any perceived sides from Nolva. I was taking 40mg for 6 weeks and tested at week 8 (2 weeks after discontinuing) and I was well over 1,000 total. Maybe closer to 1,100 honestly. This was around February this year after a 13-week cycle.



I would say if you can’t budget the cash to run 100mg UGL test/wk (buying a 250mg/ml 10ml bottle would last almost half a year) you probably have weak links in your finances somewhere that could make up the difference. Slin pins (using one shot per week, or honestly even every 8 days) are like $13/100 at Sam’s. That’s almost 2 years of a weekly shot.

Shift some of your grocery/dietary choices around and you can make that $90/year up pretty easily. You shouldn’t need an AI at 100mg every 7-8 days.

It’s all about what is and isn’t a priority in your life. I’m definitely not saying TRT should be, at all - I just want you to realize if you really want something, there are usually ways to make it happen.
When I was on TRT I was on 50mg a week so really low, but yeah I agree with you i am just not 100% sure I wanna go back on it at this moment.
 

RockyP

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Solid, I don’t have any perceived sides from Nolva. I was taking 40mg for 6 weeks and tested at week 8 (2 weeks after discontinuing) and I was well over 1,000 total. Maybe closer to 1,100 honestly. This was around February this year after a 13-week cycle.



I would say if you can’t budget the cash to run 100mg UGL test/wk (buying a 250mg/ml 10ml bottle would last almost half a year) you probably have weak links in your finances somewhere that could make up the difference. Slin pins (using one shot per week, or honestly even every 8 days) are like $13/100 at Sam’s. That’s almost 2 years of a weekly shot.

Shift some of your grocery/dietary choices around and you can make that $90/year up pretty easily. You shouldn’t need an AI at 100mg every 7-8 days.

It’s all about what is and isn’t a priority in your life. I’m definitely not saying TRT should be, at all - I just want you to realize if you really want something, there are usually ways to make it happen.
That should have said unbeatable....auto correct mess.
 

Whisky

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Just as a side note imo UGL test isn’t ideal for long term trt.

no ugl really has the facility to filter all the heavy metals from gear. They can produce good product for sure but it’s never going to be as filtered as pharma. It’s not an issue for a few years or so but over time with no break that’s gonna build up.
 

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Just as a side note imo UGL test isn’t ideal for long term trt.

no ugl really has the facility to filter all the heavy metals from gear. They can produce good product for sure but it’s never going to be as filtered as pharma. It’s not an issue for a few years or so but over time with no break that’s gonna build up.
I noticed that if I don’t give blood after doing home “TRT” for 6 months or so they tell me that I have high iron content In my blood. Interesting point.
UGL , of course
 

RockyP

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I noticed that if I don’t give blood after doing home “TRT” for 6 months or so they tell me that I have high iron content In my blood. Interesting point.
UGL , of course
Sorry what's UGL? I used to do Cypionate. Yes rbc, hematocrit and iron will all go up on TRT, mine never really went over the range because I broke up the dosage and every 2 weeks I would reduce it to 40mg.
 
bruno.camilo

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Well i use UGL at 80~90mg a week, for five years now, bloods been good, not perfect as i would like tho, but i cant complain, everything is in range, some a bit high, but in range. I've been really sedentary lately
 

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I noticed that if I don’t give blood after doing home “TRT” for 6 months or so they tell me that I have high iron content In my blood. Interesting point.
UGL , of course
That has got nothing to do with the heavy metal build up @Whisky was referring to.
 
KvanH

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Solid, I don’t have any perceived sides from Nolva. I was taking 40mg for 6 weeks and tested at week 8 (2 weeks after discontinuing) and I was well over 1,000 total. Maybe closer to 1,100 honestly. This was around February this year after a 13-week cycle.

--cut--
Hmm. This makes me wonder :unsure: I had total T at 583 and free T at 8.3 after 4 weeks of 20 mg of Nolva ed. I was still taking Nolva at the time of the blood test. I ran a mild 6 week Osta cycle before the Nolva pct where my levels were 216 and 5.2 at the end. I have yet to get bloods in "normal" situation. Age 30.
 
Hyde

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Hmm. This makes me wonder :unsure: I had total T at 583 and free T at 8.3 after 4 weeks of 20 mg of Nolva ed. I was still taking Nolva at the time of the blood test. I ran a mild 6 week Osta cycle before the Nolva pct where my levels were 216 and 5.2 at the end. I have yet to get bloods in "normal" situation. Age 30.
Are you asking a question?
 
KvanH

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Are you asking a question?
:D Yeah, I sort of was. Was doing a bit of multitasking here and now that I read it again it is quite a vage comment. But I was merely wondering if my blood test results arises any conserns of not so healthy hpta function as your levels got so high with the Nolva after much longer and most likely stronger cylce and mine were that low.

I was thinking if people know from experience that the levels drop a lot after discontuniation of the Nolva or something else that my blood test results would reviel a concern.

Mostly surprised by the difference of your and my t levels after the Nolva I guess.
 
Hyde

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:D Yeah, I sort of was. Was doing a bit of multitasking here and now that I read it again it is quite a vage comment. But I was merely wondering if my blood test results arises any conserns of not so healthy hpta function as your levels got so high with the Nolva after much longer and most likely stronger cylce and mine were that low.

I was thinking if people know from experience that the levels drop a lot after discontuniation of the Nolva or something else that my blood test results would reviel a concern.

Mostly surprised by the difference of your and my t levels after the Nolva I guess.
If you want to know what your natural levels really are, you need to wait a good month after discontinuing the SERM to see where you are really at. My levels fully recovered are usually ~600. They sure as heck ain’t 1k+ naturally

Also 30, but levels are individual. When we were 21 I had a lifting buddy who had never used anything test at like 480 total T! He was fairly muscular too. But he could never grow facial hair, or really any chest/torso hair for that matter. People are different.
 

RockyP

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If you want to know what your natural levels really are, you need to wait a good month after discontinuing the SERM to see where you are really at. My levels fully recovered are usually ~600. They sure as heck ain’t 1k+ naturally

Also 30, but levels are individual. When we were 21 I had a lifting buddy who had never used anything test at like 480 total T! He was fairly muscular too. But he could never grow facial hair, or really any chest/torso hair for that matter. People are different.
Indeed, I am at 363 total and I am a bear.
 
Renew1

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Indeed, I am at 363 total and I am a bear.
A lot of it is definitely genetics.
I have naturally high Testosterone, but I've never had a lot of Torso hair, arm hair, etc ...
I always attributed it to some Native American heritage, but who knows?

(I've also got the genetic hair condition on my head. LOL).
 

RockyP

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A lot of it is definitely genetics.
I have naturally high Testosterone, but I've never had a lot of Torso hair, arm hair, etc ...
I always attributed it to some Native American heritage, but who knows?

(I've also got the genetic hair condition on my head. LOL).
Oh yeah! I have been bald for decades. Lol
 

Whisky

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A lot of it is definitely genetics.
I have naturally high Testosterone, but I've never had a lot of Torso hair, arm hair, etc ...
I always attributed it to some Native American heritage, but who knows?

(I've also got the genetic hair condition on my head. LOL).
my natural test used to sit just above mid range (pretty sure it won’t nowadays) but my genetics are really skewed towards endurance and not at all power or strength (actually had them tested).

i was always middle of the road for hair, body hair is there and I can grow an even beard if I want but it’s not excessive.

I knew a guy who had mid to low test yet was way stronger than another guy who was naturally high. Estrogen plays a big part imo
 

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