Clen vs ECA stack

[Whisky]

Think I know the answer to this but having never run either would like some input from the AM group.....

In the 2 months plus I’ll be off cycle (currently running epi/trest) id like to really rip some fat off. I carry a disproportionate amount sub q with very low visercal fat, hence a calorie deficit only gets me so far and I typically loss muscle regardless how slow I take it.

I’d like to hit a 500 cal deficit for 6 weeks max so I have time off everything between cycles.

Given the ECA is more effective over longer spells I’m thinking a 2 week on 2 week off 2 week on clen cycle is my best bet?

I’m looking to rip off around 10lbs max (if all fat that would bring me in around 10% bf before next cycle.

Good plan?

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Think I know the answer to this but having never run either would like some input from the AM group.....

In the 2 months plus I’ll be off cycle (currently running epi/trest) id like to really rip some fat off. I carry a disproportionate amount sub q with very low visercal fat, hence a calorie deficit only gets me so far and I typically loss muscle regardless how slow I take it.

I’d like to hit a 500 cal deficit for 6 weeks max so I have time off everything between cycles.

Given the ECA is more effective over longer spells I’m thinking a 2 week on 2 week off 2 week on clen cycle is my best bet?

I’m looking to rip off around 10lbs max (if all fat that would bring me in around 10% bf before next cycle.

Good plan?

Sounds good to me. I'm running clen for the first time right now and I'm a week in. But, I have been reading to mix them so 2 weeks on and then while on your 2 weeks off do a ECA. Then 2 weeks back on, and back on ECA for the 2 weeks off. Not sure if I'm gonna try it that way yet, but I might

 

[srocco112]

I cannot vouch for clen as I have never taken it but from much feedback I have received in the past when exploring options, the general consensus was that the risks/harm of clen does not justify the benefits when compared to ECA. ECA may not be as quick or as drastic, but can still deliver desirable results without the harsh effects on your insides like clen can have. Probably not too helpful, but thought I'd just share was has been shared with me.

 

[Whisky]

Sounds good to me. I'm running clen for the first time right now and I'm a week in. But, I have been reading to mix them so 2 weeks on and then while on your 2 weeks off do a ECA. Then 2 weeks back on, and back on ECA for the 2 weeks off. Not sure if I'm gonna try it that way yet, but I might

Thanks DC - how’s the results on first week?

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Thanks DC - how’s the results on first week?

So far, I'm not seeing a whole lot in the mirror, but everything definetly feels tighter. I'm happy with the results so far, we may not always see results cause we see ourselves so often. But, when you can feel it, you know its working.

 

[Whisky]

So far, I'm not seeing a whole lot in the mirror, but everything definetly feels tighter. I'm happy with the results so far, we may not always see results cause we see ourselves so often. But, when you can feel it, you know its working.

For sure, I struggle to see change at all despite measurements etc telling me it’s happening lol

 

[Swindler]

I'm just now finishing my clen run. I am some what pleased with it even though I got headaches quite often the first two weeks. I ran it for 6 weeks straight even though I know they sat 2 on 2 off I am somewhat pleased with the results I was still taking in around 2000 Cal a day but added a considers about of cardiovascular daily like 15 to 30 min steady state after training 6 days a week... My abs have come it a lot more but I only lost like 5lbs but I pretty happy with the results and I did fudge on my nutrition on the weekends with basically a cheat meal here and there more than I should of if I was a little fore strict prolly would of shredded even more but like I said I am happy with the results and I don't really want to do a eca stack cause of all the jittery tweeky feeling.....

 

[Whisky]

I'm just now finishing my clen run. I am some what pleased with it even though I got headaches quite often the first two weeks. I ran it for 6 weeks straight even though I know they sat 2 on 2 off I am somewhat pleased with the results I was still taking in around 2000 Cal a day but added a considers about of cardiovascular daily like 15 to 30 min steady state after training 6 days a week... My abs have come it a lot more but I only lost like 5lbs but I pretty happy with the results and I did fudge on my nutrition on the weekends with basically a cheat meal here and there more than I should of if I was a little fore strict prolly would of shredded even more but like I said I am happy with the results and I don't really want to do a eca stack cause of all the jittery tweeky feeling.....

Good review thanks......

I run every morning, about 30-50 mins (7-10km) and lift 5 times a week. I’ve heard good things with clen combined with plenty of cardio. I also eat really clean just as a way of life so was thinking I’d be able to push max results out of it.

To be fair 5lbs if it’s all fat is a decent result anyway - that’s 2-3% bf at my size.....

 

[Swindler]

I feel it was good at burning mainly fat I only dosed it once early in the morning I read where some would dose it several times a day and because I dosed it so early I didn't get the insomnia sides. it seems to be a smoother stimulant than most stuff you can get over the counter... I think you will be please with it

 

[DemntedCowboy]

I dose it early in the morning except today I split dosed it

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Whiskey sent you a PM

 

[Swindler]

I dose it early in the morning except today I split dosed it

yes I tried split dosing it a couple of times and I ended up staying up way to late.....

 

[youngandfree]

I used Clen years ago and couldn't deal with the tremors.

 

[john.patterson]

Sounds good to me. I'm running clen for the first time right now and I'm a week in. But, I have been reading to mix them so 2 weeks on and then while on your 2 weeks off do a ECA. Then 2 weeks back on, and back on ECA for the 2 weeks off. Not sure if I'm gonna try it that way yet, but I might

I would give yourself a break from both ephedrine and clen during your 2 week break. Adding another stimulant in during a break from clen will be counterproductive. I would use the time off to allow your adrenal receptors to recover.

I'm sure you've done your research, but be sure you are taking 4-6g of taurine per day with clen as well. Clen depletes taurine levels significantly, which can have an impact on heart health

 

[Whisky]

I would give yourself a break from both ephedrine and clen during your 2 week break. Adding another stimulant in during a break from clen will be counterproductive. I would use the time off to allow your adrenal receptors to recover.

I'm sure you've done your research, but be sure you are taking 4-6g of taurine per day with clen as well. Clen depletes taurine levels significantly, which can have an impact on heart health

Thanks john.patterson - useful info. Taurune is a definite, it’s so cheap and I found it so beneficial in dealing with back pumps I always have a big bag knocking around.

Based on dexa scans and measurements since I’m pretty confident in saying I’ll only need to drop 16lbs fat to be single digit bf. Plan was two clen cycles dropping 8lbs a time - realistic?

 

[john.patterson]

Thanks john.patterson - useful info. Taurune is a definite, it’s so cheap and I found it so beneficial in dealing with back pumps I always have a big bag knocking around.

Based on dexa scans and measurements since I’m pretty confident in saying I’ll only need to drop 16lbs fat to be single digit bf. Plan was two clen cycles dropping 8lbs a time - realistic?

You got it man! 8lbs on a 2 week clen cycle is on the more extreme side. I will typically lose 6-7, but gain 1-2 back after I cycle off. Clen depletes the body so you lose some water weight while using it. I would realistically say you could lose 10-12lbs with 2 cycles with an on-point diet.

Super fast fat loss isn't always ideal, you want to do it gradually to avoid excessive fatigue and potential muscle loss. Clen has been shown to help with muscle retention, but I've always noticed some strength/muscle loss while using clen, and you'll probably look very flat while cycling it

 

[Whisky]

You got it man! 8lbs on a 2 week clen cycle is on the more extreme side. I will typically lose 6-7, but gain 1-2 back after I cycle off. Clen depletes the body so you lose some water weight while using it. I would realistically say you could lose 10-12lbs with 2 cycles with an on-point diet.

Super fast fat loss isn't always ideal, you want to do it gradually to avoid excessive fatigue and potential muscle loss. Clen has been shown to help with muscle retention, but I've always noticed some strength/muscle loss while using clen, and you'll probably look very flat while cycling it

Ok that’s great, thanks.

16lbs was on the top end (it assumed no fat loss on cycle which, given the way I cycle, is unlikely) - 10-12 would more than likely be something I’ll be very happy with.

 

[John Smeton]

I dose it early in the morning except today I split dosed it

what dose are you at?

Ive tried what i thought was real clen. liquid clen. I found myself having trouble with sleep first week or so and after two weeks I cycled off the two weeks clen, two weeks eca. Sometimes you really don't know if liquid clen is good. using ec 8-12 weeks is fine for a drastic cut. Using ec then switching to clen last month before a competition is fine as well

i wouldn't go higher than 60-80 mcg based on heart studies. Yes taurine is a must with clen, and used solo to make sure other aminos dont compete with taurine uptake. use taurine between meals with clen at least once a day at 3-5 grams.

Im in contest prep now and not using even caffeine. I see no need to use stimulates currently as im getting the job done without them

 

[Ricky10]

The first time I tried it was last summer...I did not make it past 3 or 4 days, and my dose was low. I spontaneously broke out in a cold sweat at work and felt like I was going to pass out. I had to lay down and have a co-worker get me some crackers and water.

Fast forward to this year...I tried it again about 1 month ago and made it less than a week as it was making me very lethargic, and ravenously hungry for carbs. I also got more scared of the cardiac implications as I did further research. I did try it again a few days ago...a dose of 45 mcg, and everything was going fine and I went off to work.

Near the end of my shift, they decided to do a fire drill on the 4th floor. I am located on the 1st floor. It is required that you run up the stairs as opposed to taking the elevator as a means to replicate what is to be done in a real fire. I got to the 4th floor and had a horrendous time trying to catch my breath, was sweating, and my heart was pounding. Normally this would never happen to me. Yet again...this was enough to scare me away.

I am quite sure that I am done..

 

[johnny412]

not tryin to hijack thread but john smelton what are your thoughts on t3 or even something as mild as synephrin and forskolin?

 

[John Smeton]

not tryin to hijack thread but john smelton what are your thoughts on t3 or even something as mild as synephrin and forskolin?

t3 is fine, the thyroid goes back to normal in about six weeks. Bloodwork is always good .

dont know much about those two.

 

[Newth]

I used a decent bit of clen for about a year, the weight loss thing then was 2 days on 2 days off or 5-2.

Had been using ECA for ages and always liked it, it has great synergy to stop sensitization so you can keep running it without upping the doses all the time.
With clen used up to 160mcg, honestly, under 60mcg I'm not sure it would give full effects. At 160 its the sledge hammer version of ECA, lots of sweating, hand tremors, so much on edge, can get the sh*ts super easy, and the BEST part was up to maybe 20% in strength increase and awesome reaction time.

ECA on the other hand is a very good fat loss combo that you don't have to have down days to cycle and healthy by comparison and far cleaner.

But in time I come to feel of clen as like a super pre-workout maybe once a week to have a super intense workout and ECA was the fat loss choice.

 

[nyemt718]

can anyone tell me the proper dosage for clen in a 1 ML oral syringe

40mcg
60 mcg
80mcg
100 mcg
120 mcg

 

[John Smeton]

I used a decent bit of clen for about a year, the weight loss thing then was 2 days on 2 days off or 5-2.

Had been using ECA for ages and always liked it, it has great synergy to stop sensitization so you can keep running it without upping the doses all the time.
With clen used up to 160mcg, honestly, under 60mcg I'm not sure it would give full effects. At 160 its the sledge hammer version of ECA, lots of sweating, hand tremors, so much on edge, can get the sh*ts super easy, and the BEST part was up to maybe 20% in strength increase and awesome reaction time.

ECA on the other hand is a very good fat loss combo that you don't have to have down days to cycle and healthy by comparison and far cleaner.

But in time I come to feel of clen as like a super pre-workout maybe once a week to have a super intense workout and ECA was the fat loss choice.

sides effects sound extreme on that dose clen

 

[Newth]

sides effects sound extreme on that dose clen

It wasn't bad, the mood was good. The only problems were the hand shakes and how quick you could get cranky.

Shame about the sides.

 

[John Smeton]

It wasn't bad, the mood was good. The only problems were the hand shakes and how quick you could get cranky.

Shame about the sides.

Ive tried it a couple times, only sides I got were sleeplessness the first two weeks. Eca seemed to work smoother for me and feel better. that said one time on low carbs, I was spun , I think I did 50 mgs ec and 500 caffiene, that was my highest dose ever and that day it was too much for me.

 

[Newth]

Ive tried it a couple times, only sides I got were sleeplessness the first two weeks. Eca seemed to work smoother for me and feel better. that said one time on low carbs, I was spun , I think I did 50 mgs ec and 500 caffiene, that was my highest dose ever and that day it was too much for me.

I tried split dosing oral powder and it never worked, needed to be AM dosed to sleep, IM liquid was different, cleaner and could split dose.

lol, thats a solid dose of caffeine, I'm pretty sure that's about the dose I had issues with also.

 

[john.patterson]

can anyone tell me the proper dosage for clen in a 1 ML oral syringe

40mcg
60 mcg
80mcg
100 mcg
120 mcg

What mg/dl is your clen? They're typically 200mg/dl but we need to know this first.

 

[nyemt718]

What mg/dl is your clen? They're typically 200mg/dl but we need to know this first.

That’s what it is 200mcg/30ml

 

[john.patterson]

That’s what it is 200mcg/30ml

So 200mcg per mL. A full syringe would be 200mcg, so one tenth (0.1) on the syringe would be 20mcg.

 

[nyemt718]

So 200mcg per mL. A full syringe would be 200mcg, so one tenth (0.1) on the syringe would be 20mcg.

So 0.2 40mcg
0.3 60
0.4 80
0.5 100
0.6 120

 

[Whisky]

Ive tried it a couple times, only sides I got were sleeplessness the first two weeks. Eca seemed to work smoother for me and feel better. that said one time on low carbs, I was spun , I think I did 50 mgs ec and 500 caffiene, that was my highest dose ever and that day it was too much for me.

How does the dosing on an eca stack vary based on current caffeine intake.......my assumption was I’d just add ephedrine to my current caffeine intake (800+ per day and has been for years) and the fact that the caffeine was a standard dose wouldn’t prevent the synergistic benefits??

 

[John Smeton]

How does the dosing on an eca stack vary based on current caffeine intake.......my assumption was I’d just add ephedrine to my current caffeine intake (800+ per day and has been for years) and the fact that the caffeine was a standard dose wouldn’t prevent the synergistic benefits??

Ec/eca/ecy stack is not a big deal, its a very small equation for fatloss. Does it work? yes it is a major factor in fatloss? no

is it dangerous to push dosing high? In my feelings yes, thats why i never went above 50 ephedrine and 500 mgs caffeine in a day. Ive seen some guys pre contest eca stack that went to 75-100 mgs 3-4 times a day, along with a 200 mgs dose with each of these. Im 36 years old and nt comfrtable pushing my body, even when i was younger I wasn't.

 

[Whisky]

Ec/eca/ecy stack is not a big deal, its a very small equation for fatloss. Does it work? yes it is a major factor in fatloss? no

is it dangerous to push dosing high? In my feelings yes, thats why i never went above 50 ephedrine and 500 mgs caffeine in a day. Ive seen some guys pre contest eca stack that went to 75-100 mgs 3-4 times a day, along with a 200 mgs dose with each of these. Im 36 years old and nt comfrtable pushing my body, even when i was younger I wasn't.

Ok thanks, I’d been reading up and noted the ratio was normally 1:10 e:c ......I’m assuming I’d reduce my typical caffeine intake by whatever the caffeine intake in the Eca stack was rather than just add that on top.

I’ve always been very stim tolerant to be honest. Planning to run Eca on the off time from clen as part of a little summer shred

 

[Newth]

@Wisky.

How do you dose you usual caffeine intake, coffee through the day?

 

[Ricky10]

Ec/eca/ecy stack is not a big deal, its a very small equation for fatloss. Does it work? yes it is a major factor in fatloss? no

is it dangerous to push dosing high? In my feelings yes, thats why i never went above 50 ephedrine and 500 mgs caffeine in a day. Ive seen some guys pre contest eca stack that went to 75-100 mgs 3-4 times a day, along with a 200 mgs dose with each of these. Im 36 years old and nt comfrtable pushing my body, even when i was younger I wasn't.

Wow...that is a crazy ephedrine dose. I assume we are talking Bronkaid/Primatene? That certainly would not have been possible with the alkaloid extracts that were used in Ripped Fuel etc.. pre 2004. Bronkaid does very little for me dosed 3 times a day....maybe I will try upping it since I tolerate it very well but can't seem to tolerate Clen at all..

 

[Whisky]

@Wisky.

How do you dose you usual caffeine intake, coffee through the day?

Typically I have around 300 first thing in coffee every day, another 200 in my second coffee a few hours later, pwo is between 200&400 depending on how much I feel I want, then another couple of coffees with around 125 each, last one normally around 7pm but to be honest it’s never affected my sleep if I have it later.....

 

[John Smeton]

Wow...that is a crazy ephedrine dose. I assume we are talking Bronkaid/Primatene? That certainly would not have been possible with the alkaloid extracts that were used in Ripped Fuel etc.. pre 2004. Bronkaid does very little for me dosed 3 times a day....maybe I will try upping it since I tolerate it very well but can't seem to tolerate Clen at all..

yup a bronkaid or two primatene. sorry I was unclear I meant 25 mgs 3-4 x's a day. Maybe one or two 50 mgs doses for a daily dose of 75-150 mgs. This was a guy getting ready for a bodybuilding show back in 1990s

 

[Newth]

Wow...that is a crazy ephedrine dose. I assume we are talking Bronkaid/Primatene? That certainly would not have been possible with the alkaloid extracts that were used in Ripped Fuel etc.. pre 2004. Bronkaid does very little for me dosed 3 times a day....maybe I will try upping it since I tolerate it very well but can't seem to tolerate Clen at all..

I don't really know what your saying but I know what you mean, I've been out for a long time.

From what I get, I'm from Australia so our laws were different, we had psudoephedrine.
Pre-2004, at the time, the US could get 100 ephedrine tabs for a few bucks.

Things were a lot easier than now. Doses have changed a bit due to health reasons also.

 

[Newth]

Typically I have around 300 first thing in coffee every day, another 200 in my second coffee a few hours later, pwo is between 200&400 depending on how much I feel I want, then another couple of coffees with around 125 each, last one normally around 7pm but to be honest it’s never affected my sleep if I have it later.....

So basically your caffeine intake is based around lifestyle, then just do your normal caffeine thing.
Caffeine has about a 6 hour active period, from memory.

If you can hold a basic stimulant in caffeine then your E and A levels are easier to manage.

Asprin like caffeine as a slow release helps, and whatever the E choice is, in 3 even doseses early enough so you can sleep as a basic.

Also to make it better, factor work, life and workout into your E use to make things easier.