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clen question

Oh lord, this is going nowhere. I am done with this. If you think 12 weeks is a useful cycle, then there is no reason to argue.

The only thing I will comment on is your Albuterol comment.

BOTH ARE LEGAL. Clen is made for horse asthma. (Hence the low dose for human consumption. Equipose is legal for animal use as well, and TREN, but not human use. They both work the same way, via the Beta 2 pathway.

Adams

BOLDED I KNOW,

OTHER WASNT SURE ( I THOUGHT THEY WERE BOTH USED FOR HUMANS FOR SOME REASON), BUT EITHER WAY ALBUTEROL IS USLESS FOR FAT BURNING CAPABITLITES AND ANTI CATABOLIC EFFECTS AS FAR AS WHAT I SEEN.

OTHER WISE AGRUMENT DONE.
 
have you read any studies on albuterol? lol.

Here we go Bass,

Albuterol increases lean body mass in ambulatory boys with Duchenne or Becker muscular dystrophy.Skura CL, Fowler EG, Wetzel GT, Graves M, Spencer MJ.
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, 635 Charles Young Drive South, NRB1 Room 401, Los Angeles, CA 90095-7334, USA.

BACKGROUND: Albuterol is a beta-2 agonist that has been demonstrated to increase muscle strength in studies in animals and humans. Based on a pilot study of extended-release albuterol Repetabs in children with dystrophinopathies, the authors conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study with a crossover design. METHODS: Fourteen boys with Duchenne or Becker muscular dystrophy, 6 to 11 years old, completed two treatment periods (albuterol and placebo), 12 weeks each, separated by a 12-week washout period. As the albuterol Repetab formulation was no longer available, an alternate extended release albuterol was used (Volmax, 12 mg per day). Outcome measurements included 1) lean body mass, 2) fat mass, 3) isometric knee extensor and flexor moments, 4) manual muscle testing, and 5) timed functional tests. RESULTS: Lean body mass was significantly higher for subjects following albuterol treatment compared to placebo treatment, while fat mass was significantly lower. No differences were found in isometric knee moments or manual muscle tests. Time to run/walk 30 feet was improved following albuterol. CONCLUSIONS: Short-term treatment with extended release albuterol may increase lean body mass, decrease fat mass, and improve functional measures in patients with dystrophinopathies. However, the significant change in strength of specific muscle groups found in the pilot study was not observed in the present study. These findings may be attributed to differences in the drug release and kinetics between Repetab and Volmax formulations as they affect the concentration of available beta-2 receptors on the muscle cell surface differently.


Effect of beta1- and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on energy expenditure, substrate oxidation, and UCP3 expression in humans.Hoeks J, van Baak MA, Hesselink MK, Hul GB, Vidal H, Saris WH, Schrauwen P.
NUTRIM, Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

In humans, beta-adrenergic stimulation increases energy and fat metabolism. In the case of beta1-adrenergic stimulation, it is fueled by an increased lipolysis. We examined the effect of beta2-adrenergic stimulation, with and without a blocker of lipolysis, on thermogenesis and substrate oxidation. Furthermore, the effect of beta1-and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on uncoupling protein 3 (UCP3) mRNA expression was studied. Nine lean males received a 3-h infusion of dobutamine (DOB, beta1) or salbutamol (SAL, beta2). Also, we combined SAL with acipimox to block lipolysis (SAL+ACI). Energy and substrate metabolism were measured continuously, blood was sampled every 30 min, and muscle biopsies were taken before and after infusion. Energy expenditure significantly increased approximately 13% in all conditions. Fat oxidation increased 47 +/- 7% in the DOB group and 19 +/- 7% in the SAL group but remained unchanged in the SAL+ACI condition. Glucose oxidation decreased 40 +/- 9% upon DOB, remained unchanged during SAL, and increased 27 +/- 11% upon SAL+ACI. Plasma free fatty acid (FFA) levels were increased by SAL (57 +/- 11%) and DOB (47 +/- 16%), whereas SAL+ACI caused about fourfold lower FFA levels compared with basal levels. No change in UCP3 was found after DOB or SAL, whereas SAL+ACI downregulated skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA levels 38 +/- 13%. In conclusion, beta2-adrenergic stimulation directly increased energy expenditure independently of plasma FFA levels. Furthermore, this is the first study to demonstrate a downregulation of skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA expression after the lowering of plasma FFA concentrations in humans, despite an increase in energy expenditure upon beta2-adrenergic stimulation.
 
have you read any studies on albuterol? lol.


I HAVE TO SAY I WAS GOING ON SUBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW, ON A LOT OF BBRS IVE SPOKE WITH SO THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO,

THE GF HAS BEEN COMPLAINING BOUT ME SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME ON HERE LOL

IM ON IT NOW THO, ILL REPORT BACK WITH FINDINGS, AND I ALSO TAKE A LOT OF ADVICE FROM PRO BBRS IN THE GAME 15 YEARS PLUS.
 
Here we go Bass,

Albuterol increases lean body mass in ambulatory boys with Duchenne or Becker muscular dystrophy.Skura CL, Fowler EG, Wetzel GT, Graves M, Spencer MJ.
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, 635 Charles Young Drive South, NRB1 Room 401, Los Angeles, CA 90095-7334, USA.

BACKGROUND: Albuterol is a beta-2 agonist that has been demonstrated to increase muscle strength in studies in animals and humans. Based on a pilot study of extended-release albuterol Repetabs in children with dystrophinopathies, the authors conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study with a crossover design. METHODS: Fourteen boys with Duchenne or Becker muscular dystrophy, 6 to 11 years old, completed two treatment periods (albuterol and placebo), 12 weeks each, separated by a 12-week washout period. As the albuterol Repetab formulation was no longer available, an alternate extended release albuterol was used (Volmax, 12 mg per day). Outcome measurements included 1) lean body mass, 2) fat mass, 3) isometric knee extensor and flexor moments, 4) manual muscle testing, and 5) timed functional tests. RESULTS: Lean body mass was significantly higher for subjects following albuterol treatment compared to placebo treatment, while fat mass was significantly lower. No differences were found in isometric knee moments or manual muscle tests. Time to run/walk 30 feet was improved following albuterol. CONCLUSIONS: Short-term treatment with extended release albuterol may increase lean body mass, decrease fat mass, and improve functional measures in patients with dystrophinopathies. However, the significant change in strength of specific muscle groups found in the pilot study was not observed in the present study. These findings may be attributed to differences in the drug release and kinetics between Repetab and Volmax formulations as they affect the concentration of available beta-2 receptors on the muscle cell surface differently.


Effect of beta1- and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on energy expenditure, substrate oxidation, and UCP3 expression in humans.Hoeks J, van Baak MA, Hesselink MK, Hul GB, Vidal H, Saris WH, Schrauwen P.
NUTRIM, Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

In humans, beta-adrenergic stimulation increases energy and fat metabolism. In the case of beta1-adrenergic stimulation, it is fueled by an increased lipolysis. We examined the effect of beta2-adrenergic stimulation, with and without a blocker of lipolysis, on thermogenesis and substrate oxidation. Furthermore, the effect of beta1-and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on uncoupling protein 3 (UCP3) mRNA expression was studied. Nine lean males received a 3-h infusion of dobutamine (DOB, beta1) or salbutamol (SAL, beta2). Also, we combined SAL with acipimox to block lipolysis (SAL+ACI). Energy and substrate metabolism were measured continuously, blood was sampled every 30 min, and muscle biopsies were taken before and after infusion. Energy expenditure significantly increased approximately 13% in all conditions. Fat oxidation increased 47 +/- 7% in the DOB group and 19 +/- 7% in the SAL group but remained unchanged in the SAL+ACI condition. Glucose oxidation decreased 40 +/- 9% upon DOB, remained unchanged during SAL, and increased 27 +/- 11% upon SAL+ACI. Plasma free fatty acid (FFA) levels were increased by SAL (57 +/- 11%) and DOB (47 +/- 16%), whereas SAL+ACI caused about fourfold lower FFA levels compared with basal levels. No change in UCP3 was found after DOB or SAL, whereas SAL+ACI downregulated skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA levels 38 +/- 13%. In conclusion, beta2-adrenergic stimulation directly increased energy expenditure independently of plasma FFA levels. Furthermore, this is the first study to demonstrate a downregulation of skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA expression after the lowering of plasma FFA concentrations in humans, despite an increase in energy expenditure upon beta2-adrenergic stimulation.

TOUCHE,

BUT QUESTION, IF IT WORKS SOO WELL, WHY ARE MORE PEOPLE HUNG UP ON CLEN?
 
but you know that just as you have article on albuterol there are on clen, obviously the dose is much higher, but it shows and 10% increase in weight of hind leg and fat loss compared to albuterol and unlike clen albuterol has showed no inotropic effect

which is why people report increased strength upon taking clen.

but whatever, im done arguing, we have all made our points lol
 
For anyone who will reply,

for someone who is somewhat sensitive to stimulants, but likes the stimmed feeling, would you recommend clen-ol or alb-ol to help decrease bodyfat by around 5%? How long would it take to healthily accomplish this with let's say a 200-300 caloric deficit? What general dosing plan with benadryl; like several weeks straight or time off with only benadryl?
 
I can't honestly recommend oral clen to anyone after mine and a few other people's experience on it.

Albuterol is good as gold with me. Makes cardio so freaking easy - I never wanted to stop. (Which can be a problem if taking too far...)
 
I can't honestly recommend oral clen to anyone after mine and a few other people's experience on it.

Albuterol is good as gold with me. Makes cardio so freaking easy - I never wanted to stop. (Which can be a problem if taking too far...)

I agree with this statement. Albuterol is a much better choice. Clen has to many negatives, and if you do hate the sides, you have a long way togo for it to be over.

Alb 3 times a day is great for myself. Dosage is dependent on the person.

Adams
 
I agree with this statement. Albuterol is a much better choice. Clen has to many negatives, and if you do hate the sides, you have a long way togo for it to be over.

Alb 3 times a day is great for myself. Dosage is dependent on the person.

Adams

So if alb needs to be redosed 2 more times throughout the day, I'm assuming its half-life is like 1/3 or 1/4 that of clen? Sounds a lot more managable than clen in that case.
 
The albuterol half life is in the 4 hour range, from what I remember. You may search up on it, spigot.
It's good stuff!
 
SOME PEOPLE ACCIMILATE TO IT, GET USED TO IT, COFFEE DRINKERS AND PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHO CAN TAKE A CAFFENINE BASED FAT BURNER AND FALL ASLEEP.

Again, your arguement is baseless here. The benedryl is for end of day. Dose some Clen, and Benedry before bed, all you will get is a cracked out exhausted night. Benedryl will not conquer clen... thats like saying snort a quarter gram of coke, then smoke some weed right after and go have a good nights sleep... it just isnt going to happen.

THAT BOLDED PART BEST QOUTE EVER BTW BUT MY REASON STILL STANDS.

SOME PEOPLE CAN USE IT, BUT NEVER DID I SAY TAKE THEM AT THE SAME TIME.

AS DAVE PALUMBO SAYS....have you ever heard of using benedryl (over the counter allergy drug) to keep
adrenergic receptors fresh when taking clenbuterol and ephedrine for long periods?Ridiculous........... don't get into the mentality of taking one drug to do this......and another to do that.........and a third to counteract the negatives of the first two....ect............



I will agree with this... run your few weeks, and back off for recovery.

FEW WEEKS? TRY 12 THEN TAKE A BREAK. 2 WEEKS DONT DO SHIZNIT, 6-8 PROBABLY


Please let me know where you are getting this information. Cause with a 36 hour half life, this is useless, and can only comprise your rest at the end of the day. And the top end 120mcg again, bro-ology, there is nothing showing never to go above this. Your protocol would be useful if utilizing Albuterol (4-6 hour half life), but clen is a different animal.

JUST THINK ANYTHING HIGHER THAN THAT WILL BE DANGEROUS,
AGAIN I HAVE NO STUDIES ON IT, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE THE UPPER LIMIT.

AND ALBUTEROL DONT WORK LIKE CLEN, WHY U THINK ITS STILL LEGAL>?
Adams

do you under stand wat i say
[/QUOTE]

UHMM CAPS AND STUFF[/QUOTE]

albuterol is still legal because it doesn't have a 36 hour half life
 
Department of Emergency Medicine, University of California, Davis, Medical Center, Sacramento, CA 95817, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: We are presenting a case illustrating the complex metabolic and rhythm disturbances associated with acute clenbuterol intoxication. BACKGROUND: Clenbuterol is a long-acting beta2-adrenergic agonist primarily used in veterinary medicine in the United States. It has become a common drug of abuse by body builders because of its reported anabolic and lipolytic properties. In this case report, a body builder using veterinary clenbuterol developed significant electrolyte and cardiac manifestations. CASE REPORT: A 31-year-old man presented to the emergency department approximately 30 minutes after ingesting 1.5 ml (a tenfold dosing error) of Ventipulmin syrup (72.5 mcg/ml clenbuterol HCl). The product was brought to the emergency department (ED) by the patient. He reported no current use of anabolic steroids. He presented in an anxious state with complaints of palpitations and shortness of breath. Vital signs upon examination were as follows: BP, 122/77 mmHg (16.3/10.3 kPa); HR 254 bpm; RR, 22 bpm; Temperature, 97.1 degrees F (36 degrees C); and oxygen saturation, 100% on ambient air. His electrocardiogram (ECG) demonstrated supraventricular tachycardia with a ventricular rate of 254 bpm. Esmolol was recommended for rate control after the unsuccessful use of adenosine and diltiazem. Laboratory studies showed potassium, 2.1 mmol/L; magnesium, 1.3 mg/dL (0.54 mmol/L); phosphorus, 1.0 mg/dL (0.32 mmol/L); serum glucose, 209 mg/dL (11.6 mmol/L); creatinine, 0.8 mg/dL (70.7 micromol/L); AST, 20 U/L; ALT, 55 U/L; hemoglobin, 12.6 g/dL (126 g/L); CPK total, 87 U/L; and troponin I, 0.23 mug/L. The patient's urine was negative for any drugs of abuse. Clenbuterol levels were not obtained. A second ECG, 16 hours post ingestion, reflected atrial fibrillation with a ventricular rate of 125 to 147 bpm. On hospital day 3, he was electively cardioverted to sinus rhythm; heart rate and rhythm returned to normal, and he was discharged with oral metoprolol. DISCUSSION: Clenbuterol is approved for use in countries outside the U.S. as a bronchodilator for the treatment of acute asthma exacerbations in humans. Although clenbuterol is not a steroid hormone, it possesses anabolic properties that increase muscle mass. Its longer duration of action compared to other beta2-agonists (such as albuterol) make it a desired agent for body-building because of its high and prolonged serum level. The mechanism for the short and long-term cardiovascular complications of clenbuterol is complex. The anabolic effects of clenbuterol are associated with its beta2-adrenoreceptor agonist activity on striated skeletal muscles. In addition, clenbuterol promotes lipolysis through adipocyte beta3-adrenoreceptors. CONCLUSION: Considering the significant number of body-building enthusiasts, physicians will continue to encounter clenbuterol abuse in their clinical practices.

Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Uppsala.

Beta2-adrenoceptor agonists are used as bronchodilators in both humans and horses. Of these drugs, clenbuterol is the one most frequently used when treating chronic obstructive pulmonary disease in the horse, while salbutamol and terbutaline are used in the treatment of human asthma. Little is known of the properties of the latter two drugs in equine medicine. We have compared salbutamol and terbutaline with clenbuterol in relation to their ability to relax muscle strips from equine tracheal muscle, precontracted with 40 nM carbachol, in tissue chambers. The affinities of these drugs to the beta2-adrenoceptors in homogenates of the same muscle tissue were also examined. These experiments were performed with radioligand binding studies using the very potent beta-adrenoceptor antagonist 125I-cyanopindolol. The three drugs were almost equipotent in relaxing the muscle strips. The EC50-values for salbutamol, terbutaline and clenbuterol were 5.6, 13.8 and 2.1 nM, respectively, and all three drugs relaxed the preparations completely. In the competitive binding study, however, the Kd-value of clenbuterol was much lower (24 nM) than that of salbutamol and terbutaline (1100 nM and 3900 nM, respectively). The amount of receptors bound at the EC50-value of clenbuterol was 8% compared to less than 1% for salbutamol and terbutaline. This indicates a lower intrinsic efficacy of clenbuterol than of the other two drugs. The beta-adrenoceptor density was 45 +/- 14.3 fmol/mg protein (mean +/- SD) and the Kd-value of 125I-cyanopindolol was 11.4 +/- 3.3 pM.

Department of Physiological Sciences, University of Manchester Medical School, United Kingdom.

The potent anabolic effects of the beta 2-adrenoceptor agonist clenbuterol on skeletal muscle have been reported to be independent of actions on beta-adrenoceptors. In the present study clenbuterol, presented to rats in the diet (4 mg/kg), caused significant increases in gastrocnemius muscle mass, protein, and RNA content and a decrease in epididymal fat pad mass. These effects were not mimicked by oral administration of the beta 2-adrenoceptor agonist salbutamol even at high dose (52 mg/kg diet), and the effects of clenbuterol were not inhibited by addition of DL-propranolol (200 mg/kg diet). However, the selective beta 2-antagonist ICI-118,551 (200 mg/kg diet) reversed the anabolic effects of clenbuterol, and a high dose of DL-propranolol (1,000 mg/kg diet) also inhibited these actions of clenbuterol. Furthermore, continuous infusion of salbutamol (1.15 mg.kg body wt-1.day-1) via miniosmotic pumps did cause significant increases in muscle mass, protein, and RNA content. These results indicate that the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are dependent on interaction with the beta 2-adrenoceptor. However, a long duration of action appears to be required to induce the anabolic effects of beta 2-agonists.




maybe not as safe but definetly much mor effective,

just needed to post those to let you guys why i dont reccomend going over 120mcg, especially in one sitting,

and why i believe its more effective.

sorry for the caps before guys, i had it on, and just figured it owuld be easier to distinguish my caps from your questions and responses.
 
So can everyone finish this just by answering with their preferences? Can you all post either "Clen" or "Albu" :)
 
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