Clen for a month?

ShortMonster

ShortMonster

New member
Awards
0
Hey everyone, to make a long story short im a new the whole weight loss thing. I was always in shape or skinny. Now I am skinny fat. I am 5'5 160lbs with visceral fat(still have abs but a big stomach). I go to the gym 5 days a week(3 days lifting, 2 days cardio)..I am gaining muscle like crazy again but the belly fat is not coming down at all. I am looking to jump on clen. Everywhere im reading its 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, but I read about a 6 week cycle, so i am a bit confused here. Can you use clen for a month if possible? If so i was thinking of doing something like this:

Week 1: 20mcg
2: 40mcg
3: 80mcg
4: 80mcg (ramp up higher if i want to)
 
ShortMonster

ShortMonster

New member
Awards
0
Forgot to mention i have been using bronkaid(ephedra) 25mg twice a day plus caffiene on and off for two months now, it gives me energy but its not really helping me lose weight. It does suppress my appetite though.
 
Mathb33

Mathb33

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Anybody doing a prep / competition will use it for several weeks prior to the show.. we’re talking 8-10 weeks easily. You have to start low and go up every couple weeks to avoid your body getting used to it making it a lot less effective.
 
ShortMonster

ShortMonster

New member
Awards
0
Ok thought so, makes a ton of sense people use it for longer. I will stick to what i posted above then to see how it works for me, i can always run a second cycle if needed after taking a break
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I would not be taking ephedrine and clen together, you can, ppl do, but I would not. Also trying to use clen to burn fat while your also trying to build muscle makes no sense. Pick a goal and eat according to the goal.

Finally, clen should be the last resort. If your not already 10%bf or less you don't need clen, you need a better diet and more cardio. If your not trying to get bodybuilding stage ready leanness then you 10,000% do not need clen.

But, since your going to do it anyway, run it straight, the 2 on 2 off is inferior. Ppl stop feeling it work so they assume it's not working. If you ran the same dose for 4,8 or even 12 weeks straight it's still working the whole time, it will get slightly less effective as time goes on, but just because your not "feeling it" dose t mean it's not working, it always works and it works at any dose to some degree
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Ramping up the dose will work better then staying the same dose tho obviously
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Anybody doing a prep / competition will use it for several weeks prior to the show.. we’re talking 8-10 weeks easily. You have to start low and go up every couple weeks to avoid your body getting used to it making it a lot less effective.
Yep. Wife just did 8 weeks straight ascending from 20-60mcg over time for a competition cut.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Yep. Wife just did 8 weeks straight ascending from 20-60mcg over time for a competition cut.
Do you have any idea why women seem to respond so much better to clen? I mean I know it works and works well for pretty much everyone, but I feel like women get better results and seem to tolerate higher doses better than men
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Do you have any idea why women seem to respond so much better to clen? I mean I know it works and works well for pretty much everyone, but I feel like women get better results and seem to tolerate higher doses better than men
We’ve never used high doses so I can’t speak to that; her cap is 60 and mine 80mcg. We never felt like we needed to push the dose higher vs just eat less/add more cardio.

I can say in general her cardiovascular fitness as a strongwoman is solid, she was doing lots of LISS at the time, women generally carrying a lot less bodyweight/size and using massively less AAS so less heart strain there as well to compete with. So her bp and pulse are naturally lower before adding clen - my conjecture is that is what provides the tolerance.
 

croydon80

New member
Awards
0
Anyone know a reliable source for Clen here in the US?
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Anyone know a reliable source for Clen here in the US?
Only research chem companies, we're not allowed to give illegal sources on this forum.

The problem with using research liquid for things like clen and especially t3 is you have no way to get a accurate measure, every drop of liquid makes a difference and if the product settles and it's not shaken up good there's a even bigger risk.

I really urge ppl to not use research chem companies for things that are measured in micrograms
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Only research chem companies, we're not allowed to give illegal sources on this forum.

The problem with using research liquid for things like clen and especially t3 is you have no way to get a accurate measure, every drop of liquid makes a difference and if the product settles and it's not shaken up good there's a even bigger risk.

I really urge ppl to not use research chem companies for things that are measured in micrograms
My experience is that they work fine, liquids. People get too worried about the specifics but general consistency evens things out fine in practical effect. As long as they aren’t crashed, which you could see obviously.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
My experience is that they work fine, liquids. People get too worried about the specifics but general consistency evens things out fine in practical effect. As long as they aren’t crashed, which you could see obviously.
I'm not worried about whether or not they work, I'm worried about the huge margin for error. I've used them before Myself and they worked, and the end everyone can do whatever they want. But I don't personally like the idea of using something measured in micrograms that wasn't produced under strict guidelines with 100% accurate dosing. Basically if Im gonna use clen or t3 I want it to be pharma.

Again, my preference and I think other's should do the same. But I'm not saying what I think matters lol. It's just how I feel
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I'm not worried about whether or not they work, I'm worried about the huge margin for error. I've used them before Myself and they worked, and the end everyone can do whatever they want. But I don't personally like the idea of using something measured in micrograms that wasn't produced under strict guidelines with 100% accurate dosing. Basically if Im gonna use clen or t3 I want it to be pharma.

Again, my preference and I think other's should do the same. But I'm not saying what I think matters lol. It's just how I feel
I would agree with that…provided you can trust your pharma gear isn’t faked. Not like you can inherently trust drug dealers. Even your direct connect can be a truly trustworthy friend/source, but they could have been duped by their supplier (speaking from experience).
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I would agree with that…provided you can trust your pharma gear isn’t faked. Not like you can inherently trust drug dealers. Even your direct connect can be a truly trustworthy friend/source, but they could have been duped by their supplier (speaking from experience).
Oh yeah, there's definitely fake pharma everything. I actually had a friend die About 2 weeks ago, he was hooked on prescription Percocets and the last batch he got was not really Percocets they were homemade looked exactly the same and they were full of fentanyl
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Oh yeah, there's definitely fake pharma everything. I actually had a friend die About 2 weeks ago, he was hooked on prescription Percocets and the last batch he got was not really Percocets they were homemade looked exactly the same and they were full of fentanyl
I’m sorry to hear that. Lost someone last year to a similar situation, fentanyl-laced heroine. That dealer was totally surprised too, & now he’s doing life for several ODs he never intended.

This also goes back, for us, to always testing small amounts first of new batches, vendors, etc. Better to take a tiny amount of dirty gear than 3ccs right away! Whatever the label says, do not assume 50mcg T3 is 0.25ml - take a small amount initially and make sure your heart isn’t going wild before taking the expected dosage.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I’m sorry to hear that. Lost someone last year to a similar situation, fentanyl-laced heroine. That dealer was totally surprised too, & now he’s doing life for several ODs he never intended.

This also goes back, for us, to always testing small amounts first of new batches, vendors, etc. Better to take a tiny amount of dirty gear than 3ccs right away! Whatever the label says, do not assume 50mcg T3 is 0.25ml - take a small amount initially and make sure your heart isn’t going wild before taking the expected dosage.
Ya it really sucks, I've got a lot of friends that still do coke and Ive been trying to tell them that it's time to stop, there's too much stuff laced with fentanyl. It's in everything. It's really sad but I know over the next few years I'm gonna be going to a lot of funerals.

The last part of your post, that's my main concern with bodybuilding stuff, I always do my first couple pins sub q, I'd rather get an infection in the fat then I would in the muscle. But with stuff like t3, for some crazy reason you think your taking 50mcg and end up getting 500 or more your probably gonna die.
 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
You should be fine with a Trusted RC Company!

 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
CubsFan312

CubsFan312

New member
Awards
0
Agree with @Smont. Too many stimulants, that's going to be very hard on your heart and blood pressure. Do you have a home blood pressure monitor? If not, I would get one. You can pick one up on Amazon for $30. I recommend the Omron brand with the cuff.

I actually bought some injectable clen and yohimbine combo, and that might be better suited for you if you're doing an ECA stack. Don't forget the aspirin bro! It actually helps! AA also sells injectable albuterol, which is a little less potent and doesn't last for 30 hours or whatever, only 4-6, so you could inject either of those into target areas you're looking to remove the fat from and it would work great.

Also, don't forget the ketotifen!!! Your beta2 receptors will down regulate after about 2 weeks and the clen will become ineffective. So you need to be taking 1mg of ketotifen every night before bed if you plan on running long cycles of clen.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Agree with @Smont. Too many stimulants, that's going to be very hard on your heart and blood pressure. Do you have a home blood pressure monitor? If not, I would get one. You can pick one up on Amazon for $30. I recommend the Omron brand with the cuff.

I actually bought some injectable clen and yohimbine combo, and that might be better suited for you if you're doing an ECA stack. Don't forget the aspirin bro! It actually helps! AA also sells injectable albuterol, which is a little less potent and doesn't last for 30 hours or whatever, only 4-6, so you could inject either of those into target areas you're looking to remove the fat from and it would work great.

Also, don't forget the ketotifen!!! Your beta2 receptors will down regulate after about 2 weeks and the clen will become ineffective. So you need to be taking 1mg of ketotifen every night before bed if you plan on running long cycles of clen.
Can you show me any scientific evidence that the beta2 receptors down-regulate? Because they don’t. In fact, the body actually dynamically increases receptor number in an environment where there’s a need. Your muscles get bigger due to taking steroids, androgen receptors increase, thus you need larger androgen doses to keep forcing similar growth. They don’t down-regulate; they increase in number.

Ketotifen is unnecessary. Some competitors use Clen for months at times with continued fat loss. Dosage will generally need to creep up, but side effects shouldn’t be misconstrued for it being effective or not. I.e., you can no longer get feelings of stimulation from caffeine yet it continues to have the same metabolic effect.

Also, AA’s injectable Albuterol kicks my ass. 0.8-1mg puts my heart in my throat. Fair warning.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Agree with @Smont. Too many stimulants, that's going to be very hard on your heart and blood pressure. Do you have a home blood pressure monitor? If not, I would get one. You can pick one up on Amazon for $30. I recommend the Omron brand with the cuff.

I actually bought some injectable clen and yohimbine combo, and that might be better suited for you if you're doing an ECA stack. Don't forget the aspirin bro! It actually helps! AA also sells injectable albuterol, which is a little less potent and doesn't last for 30 hours or whatever, only 4-6, so you could inject either of those into target areas you're looking to remove the fat from and it would work great.

Also, don't forget the ketotifen!!! Your beta2 receptors will down regulate after about 2 weeks and the clen will become ineffective. So you need to be taking 1mg of ketotifen every night before bed if you plan on running long cycles of clen.
They don't down regulate and the clen does not become non effective, that's an old bodybuilding wise tale. You just get used to the way that it feels and you think that it's not working but if you took 20 or 40 or however many micrograms and ran it start to finish for 2 years straight it would still be working the entire time
 
Last edited:
CubsFan312

CubsFan312

New member
Awards
0
Do you have a source for that claim? Because that has been a well established fact for decades. From Anabolics 10th Edition:

Clenbuterol
The drug will usually elevate the body temperature shortly after therapy is initiated. The rise in temperature is commonly .5 to 1 degree, sometimes a little more. This elevation is due to one’s body burning excess energy (largely from fat), and is usually not uncomfortable. The number of consecutive days clenbuterol hydrochloride is now used is usually dependent on the response of the individual. To be clear, the athletic benefits of this drug will only last for a limited time and then diminish, largely due to beta-receptor downregulation. By most accounts clenbuterol hydrochloride seems to work well for approximately 4 to 6 weeks. During this period, users generally monitor their body temperature on a regular basis. We are given some level of assurance that clenbuterol hydrochloride is working by the temperature elevation. Once the temperature drops back to normal, receptor downregulation has probably diminished the efficacy of the drug. At this point increasing the dosage is usually not regarded as effective, and instead clenbuterol hydrochloride is discontinued for a period of no less than 4-6 weeks.

Many bodybuilding competitors enhance the fat burning effect of clenbuterol hydrochloride with the use of additional substances. Many have commented that when the drug is combined with thyroid hormones, specifically the powerful Cytomel®, the thermogenic effect can become extremely dramatic. Such a mix is often further used during a steroid cycle, helping the individual elicit a much more toned physique from the drugs. A clenbuterol/thyroid mix is also common when using growth hormone, which is believed to enhance the thermogenic and anabolic effect of HGH therapy. Lastly, ketotifen has also been a popular adjunct to clenbuterol hydrochloride, which is an antihistamine that upregulates beta-2 receptor density. It seems capable of not only increasing the potency of each dose of clenbuterol hydrochloride (allowing the user to take less clenbuterol), but also of perhaps even slowing receptor downregulation (see the Ketotifen profile for a more comprehensive discussion).
Ketotifen

Ketotifen fumarate alleviates allergy symptoms by blocking histamine H1 receptors, a property that is common to drugs of the antihistamine class. Its second and very unique mode of action, however, makes it useful in the treatment asthma. Ketotifen fumarate increases the concentration of beta-adrenergic receptors in the body (especially beta-2 receptors). Drugs that stimulate beta-2 receptors are commonly prescribed as bronchodilators, used to increase airflow to the lungs and counter the constriction caused by asthma. While potentially efficacious alone, one key therapeutic effect of ketotifen fumarate is to increase the sensitivity of the body to drugs of the beta agonist class.

The beta-2 receptor upregulating properties of ketotifen fumarate make this drug of interest to the bodybuilding and athletic communities. This is due to the strong role of the beta-2 receptor in supporting fat loss. Although not a strong fat loss compound by itself, when taken with a beta-2 agonist thermogenic like clenbuterol, ketotifen fumarate may increase thermogenic potency and noticeably extend the window of active lipolysis. Clenbuterol and other beta-2 agonists normally have a limited duration of usefulness here because beta-2-adrenergic receptors decrease in number with regular stimulation. Within several weeks of initiating therapy with such a drug, it usually begins to diminish in effectiveness. Ketotifen may extend this time period considerably.

The ability of ketotifen to potentiate the effects of beta-2 agonist drugs has been demonstrated in a number of clinical studies. For example, one study published in 1990 demonstrated that when ketotifen and clenbuterol were taken together, there was a significant increase in beta-drenergic receptor density compared to the use of clenbuterol alone, which again decreases beta adrenoceptor density fairly quickly.692 Other studies with salbutamol (also referred to generically as albuterol) showed that beta adrenoceptor downregulation caused by long-term use of this beta-adrenergic agent could be rapidly reversed with as little as 2mg of ketotifen fumarate per day.693
His study is kind of sh!t, but I found some better ones. This is the reference he uses.

Effect of prednisolone and ketotifen on beta 2-adrenoceptors in asthmatic patients receiving beta 2-bronchodilators

The effect of ketotifen on bronchial beta-adrenergic tachyphylaxis in normal human volunteers (PDF)


The effect of ketotifen on bronchial @adrenergic tachyphylaxis was studied in healthy volunteers. In a 2-week pilot study, 19 volunteers inhaled 300 ug of salbutamol, four times a day. Ten subjects became tachyphylactic to inhaled salbutamol, assessed by a dose-response curve, before and after the 2 weeks of treatment from a metered-dose inhaler. These 10 subjects were then involved in a double-blind, crossover study comparing the effect of ketotifen, I mg in the evening during 1 week, and I mg, twice daily, during 3 weeks, and placebo on the bronchial P-adrenergic tachyphylaxis induced by the concomitant administration during the last 2 weeks of each treatment period of 300 pg of salbutamol, four times a day, from a metered-dose inhaler. The end of the pilot study preceded the double-blind study by at least 1 month. However, the salbutamol dose-response curve at the beginning of the double-blind study was still significantly decreased, compared to the dose-response curve before the pilot study. During placebo treatment, a further decrease in bronchial P-adrenergic sensitivity was observed. Treatment with ketotifen prevented the induction of further f3-adrenergic tachyphylaxis. Each 2 weeks of treatment with inhaled salbutamol increased significantly the baseline specific airway conductance; therefore, based on the present data, it is impossible to determine whether ketotifen also restores the sensitivity of an already desensitized P-adrenergic system in the airways. (J ALLERGY CLINIMMUNOL 1988;81:674-80.)
Effects of ketotifen and clenbuterol on beta-adrenergic receptor functions of lymphocytes and on plasma TXB-2 levels of asthmatic patients

"Applying ketotifen and clenbuterol together the beta-adrenergic receptor function increased compared to the values obtained after application of clenbuterol alone (intraindividual-control) as well as vs. the group of healthies (control). Data presented support the view that therapeutic doses of selective beta 2-agonists do not lead to damage of the beta-adrenoceptor function. The improvement of receptor function after parallel administration of clenbuterol and ketotifen may be a consequence of the participation of ketotifen in the control of beta-adrenergic receptor system. Thus it seems unlikely that down-regulation of beta-adrenergic receptors is responsible for the beta-agonist induced bronchial hyperreactivity."

But, I seriously don't want to get in this huge argument with you about something that has been known for decades and you pop in with no references, no sources, nothing and claim it's BS. So, if you don't want to take ketotifen with it, that's fine. It doesn't bother me a bit.
 
CubsFan312

CubsFan312

New member
Awards
0
Can you show me any scientific evidence that the beta2 receptors down-regulate? Because they don’t. In fact, the body actually dynamically increases receptor number in an environment where there’s a need. Your muscles get bigger due to taking steroids, androgen receptors increase, thus you need larger androgen doses to keep forcing similar growth. They don’t down-regulate; they increase in number.

But, I seriously don't want to get into a 10 hour debate over this. If you don't believe it doesn't happen and don't want to show any references or sources for your claims, then fine. I throw up my hands and surrender, you win.

Also, AA’s injectable Albuterol kicks my ass. 0.8-1mg puts my heart in my throat. Fair warning.
Yeah, same to me, I couldn't use it. I couldn't use the injectable Clen or Yohimbine either. But, I thought @ShortMonster who's taking 80mcg of Clen and an ECA stack together might be able to tolerate something like this.
 
CubsFan312

CubsFan312

New member
Awards
0
I'm done with this discussion about ketotifen and Clen. There are the sources. Believe them if you want, or don't. I have other stuff I need to be doing rather than arguing debates that have been settled decades ago.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I'm done with this discussion about ketotifen and Clen. There are the sources. Believe them if you want, or don't. I have other stuff I need to be doing rather than arguing debates that have been settled decades ago.
I’m not arguing the Ketotifen makes it work better. What you posted is more than sufficient evidence of that for anyone who didn’t understand that it increases receptors.

My argument is that it’s not necessary because there is no such thing as down-regulation. There’s no science needed to show that because it’s not something that happens. Albuterol users do not need to substantially raise medically prescribed doses over time, as a practical example.

And there are many things notoriously wrong in Llewellyn’s books. Things like A:A ratios, AI misinformation, and lots of conjecture that didn’t hold up to the age of the internet as guys the world over were able to start sharing information better. The most recent 11th edition is over 2 decades old.
 

johnny412

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I'm done with this discussion about ketotifen and Clen. There are the sources. Believe them if you want, or don't. I have other stuff I need to be doing rather than arguing debates that have been settled decades ago.
same old starscream......this morning i accidentally saw an arguementative post of yours from 2020. you said the EXACT same thing smdh! something like i dont have time to argue with you guys i have better things to do.......after arguing all day.......and after you posted 20 study links and were proven wrong lol! good stuff keep it coming! ;)
edit: and i had to double check to make sure i wasnt reading the same post lol :ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:

johnny412

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I'm done with this discussion about ketotifen and Clen. There are the sources. Believe them if you want, or don't. I have other stuff I need to be doing rather than arguing debates that have been settled decades ago.
starscream from 2020......
dvw said:
You have proven what I have said all along to starscream66. That there is multiple studies on these compounds going back to the 1960's. When starscream66 sees this he's going to be looking real sick. LMFAO
Bro, let's just drop this and not start this argument again. I asked you for the research studies quoted in the advertisement you posted and you couldn't produce them.

"I never insulted you or called you names, but you called me plenty of names and was very nasty to me. I accepted your apology up above, and you're probably right, it can be hard to find Italian studies made in the 1960s. But that still doesn't mean that those studies are valid or even real.

Let's just let bygones be bygones and move away from this argument that we'll never resolve."
 
CubsFan312

CubsFan312

New member
Awards
0
My argument is that it’s not necessary because there is no such thing as down-regulation. There’s no science needed to show that because it’s not something that happens. Albuterol users do not need to substantially raise medically prescribed doses over time, as a practical example.
This I honestly don't know the answer to. Since you didn't include any references for your claim, I can only take it at face value.

And there are many things notoriously wrong in Llewellyn’s books. Things like A:A ratios, AI misinformation, and lots of conjecture that didn’t hold up to the age of the internet as guys the world over were able to start sharing information better. The most recent 11th edition is over 2 decades old.
You're more than welcome to post examples. We all know A:A ratios are meaningless. Yes, the book is 2 years old. That doesn't invalidate the information in it. Christ, he has to write a new edition every few years, look up the studies on EVERY SINGLE STEROID, SARM, AI, Fatloss drug, etc and see if there has been any new information/studies/references provided. That's not something that you can do in a few weeks or a month.

I consider it a valid source of quality information. Everything is sourced by studies, all the data is thoroughly researched, and he adds new chemicals, peptides, and whatever else the new flavor of the month peptide or GH booster, or whatever and find quality valid research on these compounds that usually don't exist because they're research chemicals and people are just reading the patent, synthesizing the chemical, and selling it on the open market. But, that's an argument for another time.

It's not going to be completely up to date on every new research as books are a different medium than forums. A lot of stuff on forums is just anecdotal experiments people are testing on themselves. Anything that could possibly increase muscle or burn fat is tested by people who want to be guinea pigs for these compounds that could have been made in somebodies bathtub or kitchen. I prefer to use tested, well studied, and compounds that have been around for a long time and have good safety profiles, and have been used by many thousands+ people for decades. Peptide are fascinating, don't get me wrong, but I'm not going to run out an inject myself with something that's brand new that's never been studied and has no data on it. That's why BOOKS are good as reference material. They may not have the latest brand new study that just popped up, but it has solid data that substantiates the claims he makes.

So, you are welcome to disagree with my assertions, I really don't feel like getting into a whole new argument about it. But, when you look at information that the bodybuilding community has known for decades to be factual and then come along with no references or sources making claims like that, how am I supposed to know if that's true or not? Is there NEW information that shows the beta2 receptors don't down regulate? Or where are you getting this information from?
 
Last edited:

johnny412

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
"how am I supposed to know if that's true or not?"
im pretty sure at this point with your history nobody really cares ;)
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
This I honestly don't know the answer to. Since you didn't include any references for your claim, I can only take it at face value.



You're more than welcome to post examples. We all know A:A ratios are meaningless. Yes, the book is 2 years old. That doesn't invalidate the information in it. Christ, he has to write a new edition every few years, look up the studies on EVERY SINGLE STEROID, SARM, AI, Fatloss drug, etc and see if there has been any new information/studies/references provided. That's not something that you can do in a few weeks or a month.

I consider it a valid source of quality information. Everything is sourced by studies, all the data is thoroughly researched, and he adds new chemicals, peptides, and whatever else the new flavor of the month peptide or GH booster, or whatever and find quality valid research on these compounds that usually don't exist because they're research chemicals and people are just reading the patent, synthesizing the chemical, and selling it on the open market. But, that's an argument for another time.

It's not going to be completely up to date on every new research as books are a different medium than forums. A lot of stuff on forums is just anecdotal experiments people are testing on themselves. Anything that could possibly increase muscle or burn fat is tested by people who want to be guinea pigs for these compounds that could have been made in somebodies bathtub or kitchen. I prefer to use tested, well studied, and compounds that have been around for a long time and have good safety profiles, and have been used by many thousands+ people for decades. Peptide are fascinating, don't get me wrong, but I'm not going to run out an inject myself with something that's brand new that's never been studied and has no data on it. That's why BOOKS are good as reference material. They may not have the latest brand new study that just popped up, but it has solid data that substantiates the claims he makes.

So, you are welcome to disagree with my assertions, I really don't feel like getting into a whole new argument about it. But, when you look at information that the bodybuilding community has known for decades to be factual and then come along with no references or sources making claims like that, how am I supposed to know if that's true or not? Is there NEW information that shows the beta2 receptors don't down regulate? Or where are you getting this information from?
Check this out:


It’s only an abstract, but it’s really all you need to understand these two things:

- I was wrong: receptor count does decrease in response to B2-sympathomimetic drugs (which Clenbuterol is).

- Llewelyn was wrong: practical effects of this class of drug continue to function same as initially, even after 6 months of continuous application, DESPITE downregulation of receptor count.

Additionally, real world anecdotal application of Clenbuterol on athletes tells us that it keeps working. They still get leaner with or without Ketotifen, and when you pull the Clen weight will be gained if you don’t drop more calories to offset the increased burning it was accounting for, so you know it was still working in those athletes not using Keto.

I don’t feel I have any further contribution to make beyond this. And I appreciate you pushing me to dig deeper, for my own edification.
 

johnny412

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Check this out:


It’s only an abstract, but it’s really all you need to understand these two things:

- I was wrong: receptor count does decrease in response to B2-sympathomimetic drugs (which Clenbuterol is).

- Llewelyn was wrong: practical effects of this class of drug continue to function same as initially, even after 6 months of continuous application, DESPITE downregulation of receptor count.

Additionally, real world anecdotal application of Clenbuterol on athletes tells us that it keeps working. They still get leaner with or without Ketotifen, and when you pull the Clen weight will be gained if you don’t drop more calories to offset the increased burning it was accounting for, so you know it was still working in those athletes not using Keto.

I don’t feel I have any further contribution to make beyond this. And I appreciate you pushing me to dig deeper, for my own edification.
hyde dont let him bait you into postin a bunch of long studies. he posts enough for everybody! :p
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Alpha Gainz 1
Cycle Logs 15
Weight Loss 5
Anabolics 29
Anabolics 20

Similar threads


Top