Clean bulking

[Tra93ty]

Need advice from my endomorph brothers. Advice with clean bulking. Not trying to spike insulin levels, while supplying the body With adequate amounts of carbs. Maybe I'm over analyzing the situation, but preferably would cover all Angles before diverging into this journey. Thank you in advance.

 

[Gerbil]

Take your maintenance caloric intake increase it by 200 calories per day. So lets say you start at around 2500 then bump it to 2700. Carbs help with muscle glycogen stores. I usually recommend trying to consume carbs around your workouts. Also insulin is a very anabolic hormone (why modern pros use it) spiking your insulin around workouts can greatly aid in recovery. However constantly high insulin levels will most likely lead to being less sensitive to it.

The secret to clean bulking is don't chow down willy nilly also listen to your body if you are putting on too much excess fat lower your caloric intake. You will more than likely gain some fat bulking the secret is not going overboard.

 

[Tra93ty]

So without the availability of carbs, glycogen storage in muscles becomes much more difficult? So essentially a rich complex carb maybe 1 hour before working out will be suffice? Mainly attempting to minimize carb intake throughout the course of the day. Without falling into ketosis, but this could be a possibility as well. I have been studying the effects on muscle development with the carnivore "diet". Results are inconclusive at this moment.

 

[Gerbil]

Without the availability of carbs you will not have glycogen stores. Average human body can store around 350-500g of glycogen in muscle cells.

If you are trying to bulk you should be upping your carbohydrate intake to account for energy requirements due to working out as well as recovering glycogen stores.

You can start your day with complex carbs and consume quick acting carbohydrates around your workout to increase nutrient uptake of pre/peri/post workout nutrition.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

The above advice is good. Also, protein intake can be around .8-1gram per lb.
Protein can be broken down into glucose.. gluconeogenesis.

 

[Whisky]

The above advice is good. Also, protein intake can be around .8-1gram per lb.
Protein can be broken down into glucose.. gluconeogenesis.

Protein can be converted to glucose but I understand that to be an extremely inefficient process......over consumption of protein will lead to less fat gain than carbs or fat. There’s also the higher thermogenic effect of protein which is why personally I like protein up at 1.5g per lb plus whether cutting or clean bulking.

Agree with everything Gerbil says above

 

[ericos_bob]

How lean are you to begin with? It's much easier to bulk and minimize fat gain when you're in a lean condition to begin with. 10-12% is a good start point.

 

[Tra93ty]

I'm not lean at all. Honestly I'm trying to bulk as much as possible without adding too much more fat on.

 

[ericos_bob]

It's doable aswell especially if losing body fat isn't a primary concern. I don't like the psychological aspect of being fat for a long time which is the case when you bulk while already at a higher bf%. You could simply strip off that fat in a matter of months (depending on where you're at) and then bulk up to no more than 15% before repeating.

 

[Tra93ty]

Exactly ericos_bob pushing a bulk out 2 more months to cut for 6. The phycological aspect is torementing but it can easily be transfered into motivation.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Protein can be converted to glucose but I understand that to be an extremely inefficient process......over consumption of protein will lead to less fat gain than carbs or fat. There’s also the higher thermogenic effect of protein which is why personally I like protein up at 1.5g per lb plus whether cutting or clean bulking.

Agree with everything Gerbil says above

It is, but why would you think carbs can be converted to fat any less inefficiently as protein? Thermogenic effect of food is overhyped IMO. 1.5g of protein in a bulk is excessive why not do higher carbs, moderate protein, and low fat... Moderate protein .8-1g per lb. Fats roughly 30-50g. And the rest carbs. If cutting 1-1.2g per lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICPFut583U&t=338s

 

[muscleupcrohn]

It is, but why would you think carbs can be converted to fat any less inefficiently as protein? Thermogenic effect of food is overhyped IMO. 1.5g of protein in a bulk is excessive why not do higher carbs, moderate protein, and low fat... Moderate protein .8-1g per lb. Fats roughly 30-50g. And the rest carbs. If cutting 1-1.2g per lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICPFut583U&t=338s

Why bulk on such low fat? Eating 1/2 a pound of 80/20 beef puts you at 40g, and that’s one meal.

 

[Gerbil]

I'm not lean at all. Honestly I'm trying to bulk as much as possible without adding too much more fat on.

If you are not lean at all you can honestly make significant progress with a very simple diet.

I would just go with get protein intake around 1-1.5g/lb (I would stick with 1g/lb), cut out your overly processed carbs, don't eat fried foods, eat more veggies and then you should be pretty set.

Honestly unless you are trying to get to a sub 10% bf you can get really far just eating healthy, lifting weights and getting enough sleep.

If you follow the above advice you should cut fat while gaining a bit of muscle. If you notice you are not gaining muscle eat more, if you are getting fatter eat less.

 

[BarryScott]

Why bulk on such low fat? Eating 1/2 a pound of 80/20 beef puts you at 40g, and that’s one meal.

I've tried both ways and low fat/high carb just works better, low fat diets just aren't very fashionable now that everyone is all about keto, paleo, etc.

Higher fat intake definitely makes things more enjoyable though,.

 

[Chados]

What's your weight?

 

[BarryScott]

This might be of interest: https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing/

 

[TheSuppGuy]

I wouldnt advice anyone to go lower than 50g of fats a day. Thats just a lazy way of getting calories out of your diet. Ive heard of people getting their natural test production shut down because of lower than 50g fat diets. So 50+g of fat depending on weight etc. Around 200g of protein and rest carbs. If you stick to this I dont think you will get fat. Especially if you train hard and listen to your body. I think you cant get fat at a 100g carbs a day, so go from there.

 

[Jeremyk1]

This might be of interest: https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing/

References were pretty sparse in that article. Made a few inaccurate statements as well. Probably from a lack of references. Whoever wrote that needs to do better research.

 

[BarryScott]

References were pretty sparse in that article. Made a few inaccurate statements as well. Probably from a lack of references. Whoever wrote that needs to do better research.

You don't need to fill an article with links to studies for it to be useful. Mike Israetel is pretty well respected and is most likely taking based on his own experience coaching rather than parroting studies mindlessly like someone like Jeff Nippard does.

I would genuinely like to know what statements you think are wrong though.