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CKD and cardio

ShadowFury

ShadowFury

Active member
Hey people, I started doing CKD about 3 weeks ago, getting more used to it and having higher energy now, so that's a plus. I was wondering if doing HIIT or just medium-intensity cardio for about an hour is OK while doing CKD. And also what a good fat burner would be while on CKD, other than the ECA stack. I'm 150 lbs, 14%-15% BF
 
HIIT in the morning on an empty stomach + the CKD diet is great, altho I for one would not do an hour, I think 20-30mins is enough. Are you lifting weights at all?

What kind of fat burner did you have in mind a stim or a non stim? I like to use albuterol as my stim and use lean xtreme for its cortisol control and fat burning properties. I have yet to try DCP, but I have only heard great things about it, it is a non stim fat burner as well.

~GX
 
GXbcmFTO said:
HIIT in the morning on an empty stomach + the CKD diet is great, altho I for one would not do an hour, I think 20-30mins is enough. Are you lifting weights at all?

What kind of fat burner did you have in mind a stim or a non stim? I like to use albuterol as my stim and use lean xtreme for its cortisol control and fat burning properties. I have yet to try DCP, but I have only heard great things about it, it is a non stim fat burner as well.

~GX
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Agree with the HIIT.

Just wondering why you would suggest it on an empty stomach, anytime I hear the argument for empty stomach cardio its in favor because the body would burn more fat rather than anything else, essentially this is what we attain in keto.
 
That's what I'm looking for as far as supps, thanks :)

About the HIIT on empty stomach, like Thomas said, why empty stomach? I would just end up needing to eat more fat that day to make up for it right?
 
The main issue is the fact that you said you are on CKD. Low-carb diets and high-intensity cardio lead to muscle wasting. Whenever I am doing low-carb, I stick to medium-intensity treadmill work. 3mph @ 5-10% incline.
 
And to answer your supplement question, I prefer PAL Leviathan (though USP ReCreate was good as well). I am one of the very few people (maybe the only one?) that hasn't seen any added benefit from DCP, but it appears to be very solid from reviews. I used to use ECA stacks in the past, but I prefer the two mentioned above to ECA now.
 
tribaltek said:
The main issue is the fact that you said you are on CKD. Low-carb diets and high-intensity cardio lead to muscle wasting. Whenever I am doing low-carb, I stick to medium-intensity treadmill work. 3mph @ 5-10% incline.
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I tend to disagree slightly. Your endurance might suffer from ckd but I do not think 20min of intense cardio is going to cause muscle wasting on an empty stomach.
 
Regardless of our varying opinions, please make sure you have some BCAA's in you at the very least if you are doing any kind of "empty stomach" cardio.
 
SureShot said:
I tend to disagree slightly. Your endurance might suffer from ckd but I do not think 20min of intense cardio is going to cause muscle wasting on an empty stomach.
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I agree with this, endurance will most likely suffer, however 20-30mins of 400m sprints is not going to lead to much muscle loss if any, especially if you eat shortly there after. I would recommend BCAA's tho as tribaltek suggested.

~GX
 
GXbcmFTO said:
I agree with this, endurance will most likely suffer, however 20-30mins of 400m sprints is not going to lead to much muscle loss if any, especially if you eat shortly there after. I would recommend BCAA's tho as tribaltek suggested.

~GX
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Agreed completely. However, I am sure there were not bcaas around in bulk back when hunter gatherers had to probably do HIIT to kill their food for the day...and they were ripped.
 
Being "ripped" like a caveman (I assume you mean scrawny and starving?) and retaining a high percentage of LBM are two totally different ball games, bro.
 
tribaltek said:
Being "ripped" like a caveman (I assume you mean scrawny and starving?) and retaining a high percentage of LBM are two totally different ball games, bro.
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Point taken but I really do not think that using bcaas before/during 20min of total activity is going to make much of a difference. Are we talking performance or appearance here? I agree that for performance/endurance that bcaas as well as a carbo source will definitely help. I have done HIIT while drinking xtend for a month and done it for 2-3months 4-5x per week while drinking crystal light and have not noticed any difference.
 
Hmmmm, so BCAAs beforehand and how long afterwards should I eat? I'd be waking up around 5 or 5:30, then need to be at school which is a half hour away, at 8. I'd wanna eat around 6:40, would that be OK?

And thanks for the supp info again, I will prolly go with either DCP or Leviathan.

Some days I may do the medium-intensity cardio, then prolly 2-3 times a week do fasted HIIT. I do also do weights by the way, so the medium intensity will be on workout days, and the fasted HIIT will be in the mornings of my break days.

Would it be good for me to do HIIT on Fridays, after the final workout, but before my carb-up begins?(Goes till midnight sat)
 
SureShot said:
I tend to disagree slightly. Your endurance might suffer from ckd but I do not think 20min of intense cardio is going to cause muscle wasting on an empty stomach.
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I don't think CKD will cause any lapse in cardiovascular capability, endurance wise anyway. From all the CKD stuff i've read, endurance isn't effected.
 
ShadowFury said:
Hmmmm, so BCAAs beforehand and how long afterwards should I eat? I'd be waking up around 5 or 5:30, then need to be at school which is a half hour away, at 8. I'd wanna eat around 6:40, would that be OK?

And thanks for the supp info again, I will prolly go with either DCP or Leviathan.

Some days I may do the medium-intensity cardio, then prolly 2-3 times a week do fasted HIIT. I do also do weights by the way, so the medium intensity will be on workout days, and the fasted HIIT will be in the mornings of my break days.

Would it be good for me to do HIIT on Fridays, after the final workout, but before my carb-up begins?(Goes till midnight sat)
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Yes to all.
 
Alright, thanks.

Should I have my post-workout shake(100% Gold Pure Whey, or something like that) after I do HIIT? I'm thinking the food will be good enough, but just checking.
 
I still believe high intensity cardio on a low carb diet (on an empty stomach even) is not the way to go. You can tell me all day that it isn't catabolic, but I just can't agree.

Now if we were talking about a diet with "regular" 40/40/20 type macros, then I would totally agree with you. But seeing as he is going to be in a glycogen depleted state, catabolism is going to occur.
 
Well, I'm going to do it for 10-12 mins for a week or so and see what happens, or until we can get a definite answer on the " is it catabolic" question
 
I don't have a degree in the field or anything, I'm just telling you from personal experience.

Maybe Bobo or someone in that caliber can post and school us all.
 
I agree with trib. I have been doing CKD for 2.5months now and have lost 30lbs of fat and have gotten the strongest I have ever been. I would suggest doing 30-45min of elliptical or stairmaster after heavy weights.
 
SureShot said:
in a twenty minute HIIT session endurance is not a factor regardless.
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Endurance is always a factor, if someone is in poor cardiovascular shape, not necessarily overweight, just not in good condition, completing a 15 minute run might be hard, let alone putting sprints in there.


I don't see why HIIT would be catabolic, if diet and macro intake during CKD are spot on I can't really see why it would eat muscle. Especially if your eating right and have protein and fat available for digestion during the session. HIIT sessions are usually shorter than LI sessions, and would probably have either lower or similar calorie requirements.

HIIT increases beneficial hormones, increases how effectively glycogen is stored and increases EPOC for many hours after a session is completed, low intensity cardio just doesn't do that. Increased EPOC on top of the fat burning nature of CKD is a bonus, sure, weighlifting which is essentially the same concept periods of high intensity work with breaks in between action, raises EPOC as well, but performing HIIT on days where you haven't worked out, or haven't worked out too intensely can be a great asset.
 
i dont think your muscle will drop if you do HIIT before/after lifting on ckd. but if you are cutting on ckd and doing HIIT before/after lifting, its a nobrainer there will be catabolic effects. lifting is a HIIT pass in itself. and basically, if you want to lose bodyfat, that means you are cutting. so i vote for the low intensity 6-12% incline walk at 3-4mph.

edit: btw, if anyone disagrees that lifting isnt a HIIT. then you are lifting like a pussy
 
To Jester, I'm not going to do HIIT before/after my workout, but on my days off in the morning(So there would be around 10 hours from workout to HIIT)

I am not thinking doing HIIT is going to be catabolic in itself(Not done around lifting). I think the question now is if I should do it fasted or not. If HIIT was catabolic while on CKD, then wouldn't lifting be? Because if it is HIIT(A good, hard workout is, like you said, HIIT,in my oppinion). That's just what I'm kinda gettin from this whole thing.
 
Wouldn't using BCAA's before morning "fasted" cardio (and only BCAA's) make the body burn the BCAA's up for energy, resulting in a waste of money? Wouldn't it be just like consuming carbs?
 
Alright, just ordered PAL Levi, that should help out. I was eating too many peanuts a few days ago, and carbs were prolly around 40, so that was kinda bleh. I cut them out and swapped some stuff up, now I'm down to about 5-12 carbs. Keto test is somewhere between 80 and 160 for the ketostix now.

Back to the HIIT, if I did it an hour after I ate in the morning, then drank a protein shake on the way to school, would that be better than fasted? I'm also doing the 30-45 low-medium intensity after workout.
 
ShadowFury said:
To Jester, I'm not going to do HIIT before/after my workout, but on my days off in the morning(So there would be around 10 hours from workout to HIIT)

I am not thinking doing HIIT is going to be catabolic in itself(Not done around lifting). I think the question now is if I should do it fasted or not. If HIIT was catabolic while on CKD, then wouldn't lifting be? Because if it is HIIT(A good, hard workout is, like you said, HIIT,in my oppinion). That's just what I'm kinda gettin from this whole thing.
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really man, i cant belive you didnt understand what i wrote:

if you are doing TWO times HIIT while cutting. then its bad. if you are doing HIIT on a rest day and lifting on another day, while cutting, i think its okay. thats why i wrote HIIT before/after lifting.

everyone knows that gaining muscle while cutting is hard. you might even lose muscle if you're not stressing the details. so doing two HIIT exercises that probably span around 2hours is definetly gonna do you a catabolic favour.

i belive that HIIT on cutting and fasted is the same ****. okay you are on maintence, and your macro are correct. but you just had an 8hours sleep. and you probably didnt eat for 9hours. the catabolic effects have already kicked (unless you woke up in the middle of the night and chewed on some casein product). and then not eating breakfast and doing HIIT is just gonna rip your muscle apart. okay, you gonna eat 50p/50c/20f after the fasted HIIT? so what, the damage is already done. your muscle not gonna grow because you sprint. lifting grows your muscle.
 
ShadowFury said:
To Jester, I'm not going to do HIIT before/after my workout, but on my days off in the morning(So there would be around 10 hours from workout to HIIT)

I am not thinking doing HIIT is going to be catabolic in itself(Not done around lifting). I think the question now is if I should do it fasted or not. If HIIT was catabolic while on CKD, then wouldn't lifting be? Because if it is HIIT(A good, hard workout is, like you said, HIIT,in my oppinion). That's just what I'm kinda gettin from this whole thing.
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Don't do it fasted. The major effects from HIIT arise after performing it and not during it. On CKD your body uses fat as it's primary source of fuel. The usual argument towards fasted cardio is that it uses more fat because you are in a "starved" state so the fasted cardio would use fat and not glycogen/glucose. On CKD the main benefit of fasted cardio is irrelevant, if you use your glycogen stores up then thats more room for compensation during carb ups, which could mean a lower chance for calorie runover into fat. If fasted cardio could use more fat for energy than glucose then it really doesn't matter because fat on CKD is the main source of energy used.
 
So gentleman, to sum it up in one sentence.

Do HIIT with some food in you so you don't catabolise yourself to death.

Am i right? I went from understanding, to being confused, to thinking that I understand again :P
 
Lol, ya, that's how I was, now I think I understand it again >_< I'm going to eat my eggs/bacon/cheese at around 5:10, then do HIT around 6 or 6:10 for about 15 mins. Should I have my shake on the way to school after I do HIIT? Or just eat my norm mid morning snack? I usually just grab some almonds in a baggy, and eat em at school between classes.

Sorry for misunderstandin' your post BTW Jester, was still confused about the ones above yours, lol.
 
My shake is around 130 I think, and has 4g sugar, so that's kinda bleh. Sometimes I can't get up to what I need to eat for certain meals, so the calories from it are alright. I try to have 30-40g of fat per meal, then 10 for 2 snacks. I am supposed to have around 135 or 138, so I will randomly snack on bacon or something to give me a little boost, because I rarely hit the 138 or so >_<
 
ShadowFury said:
My shake is around 130 I think, and has 4g sugar, so that's kinda bleh. Sometimes I can't get up to what I need to eat for certain meals, so the calories from it are alright. I try to have 30-40g of fat per meal, then 10 for 2 snacks. I am supposed to have around 135 or 138, so I will randomly snack on bacon or something to give me a little boost, because I rarely hit the 138 or so >_<
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if you're under your calorie limit for the day then you better be drinking those shakes! :cheers:
 
Will do :)

To doublecheck, I can eat about an hour before HIIT in the mornings right? And then shake directly after.
 
What does your shake look like anyways? I hope you're adding some fats into it to fit into the diet guidelines. Extra virgin olive oil is your friend in this diet, believe me. Add a bit to your shake and you're good to do.

Make sure you're eating fatty fish and/or taking fish oil caps as well.
 
Gonna start taking fish oil caps again, stopped once I started on the CKD. I have tuna, and some times talapia. I'll add the oil into the shake too, didn't even think about that :) Shake is 120 cal, 4g carbs, 1 sugar, 24g protein. (Gold Standard 100% Whey) Is that alright, or should I switch to a dif shake? I love the taste of it, and used to do Muscle Milk, which wasn't helping much and had a crapload of sugar. I'm about half way through this tub

EDIT: Basketball will be starting soon, and practice will be from 3 PM - 5 PM, should I try to have anything specific before/after practice? I still plan on coming home and doing some upper body.
 
ShadowFury said:
EDIT: Basketball will be starting soon, and practice will be from 3 PM - 5 PM, should I try to have anything specific before/after practice? I still plan on coming home and doing some upper body.
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A lot of people would recommend that you have some BCAAs. Get something inside you at least, to fuel your exercise with something other then your muscles :)

If you're going to workout afterwards you may as well have a shake and get some protein in you. Your barely meeting caloric requirements as it is right?
 
Alrighty, more BCAAs then, half hour before practice I'm guessing? And then the shake on my way home so I can start upper body right when I get home.

Ya, I barely hit it, because I'm always too worried to go over <_< I guess I do need to add more because of cardio/lifting though. I might hafta have 7 meals a day to get to my limit then.
 
Stopping fish oil when starting CKD was opposite of what you should have done. Get them in you ASAP. Remember that this diet is 60%+ fat. Put some extra virgin olive oil in your shake, along with some ground flax seeds. I also suggest Sesamin in either cap or liquid form (I put a few squirts in every shake).

It doesn't seem like you were ready for CKD. I suggest you study the principals more and start eating what it requires. Steak, burger, bacon, fatty fish, chicken thighs, whole eggs, etc. Talapia doesn't cut it in this diet. Most canned tuna has very little fast as well.
 
"Steak, burger, bacon, fatty fish, chicken thighs, whole eggs"
I eat all that but the fatty fish and chicken thighs... I did tuna for everything other than fat, the fat came with the other meat <_< I have eggs/bacon for breakfast, snack is almonds, lunch chicken/burger + pepperoni or cheese, dinner along the same lines of lunch, and then a snack of jerkey or something
 
Salmon is awesome for this diet, and you can buy it in bulk bags at Wal-Mart or similar stores for a good price.

I don't eat chicken thighs myself.
 
Salmon it is then, I only bought one box of tilapia, and that stuff sucked <_< I work at an Ihop till I graduate, and I either get a burger with no bun + cheese and some broccoli, or the tilapia, it's actually good there though.

I've heard some people eating a fruit or having some carbs before there workout, and only then. Is that OK? Or does it kick you out of ketosis? The broccoli is the only thing I have that has some carbs, only because it's fiber. I have it prolly twice a week, because I'm also taking a multi so I'm not too worried about fiber.

I'd like to just have a drink like a Monster or something before practice, but not sure if it's advised or whatever. Sorry for all the questions by the way, I've looked for all the CKD threads here and on 2 or 3 other sites, and most of them have the same stuff, so I'm forced to ask <_< And thanks for all the help :box:
 
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