CJC1295DAC experiences; hypo, lethargy, etc ...

Whisky

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What's "GH Bleed"?



Looks like according to that chart you should be injecting 250mcg. But I guess that's cost prohibitive?

Also just to clear up any misconceptions, I recently was flipping through Anabolics 11th Edition and read the following:





So, it sounds like you should buy a blood glucose meter and be checking your blood glucose regularly. I have no idea what you do if your blood sugar gets too high, but that was just a concern mentioned in the book.
mk, cjc etc (anything that elevates GH really) is known for causing insulin resistance with long term use.

the easiest and simplest way to address it is cycling usage (Mike Arnold now recommends this for mk whereas previously he used to say consistent use over the long term) and/or supplement with berberine (good supplement anyway, cheap and natural) or metformin (very effective in improving insulin sensitivity and has lots of studies backing up overall health benefits and longevity but it’s a prescription med).

gh ‘bleed’ simply refers to the way cjc dac (1 week approx half life) provides a steady ‘bleed’ of gh, as opposed to cjc non dac which provides a large spike. Theres opposing views on which is more beneficial but for me personally pinning non dac 3 x day would just be too big a pain in the ass hence I just use dac.
 
StarScream66

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mk, cjc etc (anything that elevates GH really) is known for causing insulin resistance with long term use.

the easiest and simplest way to address it is cycling usage (Mike Arnold now recommends this for mk whereas previously he used to say consistent use over the long term) and/or supplement with berberine (good supplement anyway, cheap and natural) or metformin (very effective in improving insulin sensitivity and has lots of studies backing up overall health benefits and longevity but it’s a prescription med).

gh ‘bleed’ simply refers to the way cjc dac (1 week approx half life) provides a steady ‘bleed’ of gh, as opposed to cjc non dac which provides a large spike. Theres opposing views on which is more beneficial but for me personally pinning non dac 3 x day would just be too big a pain in the ass hence I just use dac.
Metformin has a lot of unpleasant side I've read.

Also, there is no CJC without DAC. Read the quote I just posted from Anabolics 11th ed.
 
Alchemist11

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Metformin has a lot of unpleasant side I've read.

Also, there is no CJC without DAC. Read the quote I just posted from Anabolics 11th ed.
Watch those two like Sustanon and Test Prop.... long and short half-life, but same thing
 
Jinsun

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Metformin has a lot of unpleasant side I've read.

Also, there is no CJC without DAC. Read the quote I just posted from Anabolics 11th ed.
Yeah, there is no cjc w/o dac and no cjc with dac, but it's seldomly named that way bc there is a lot of confusion around it.
 
StarScream66

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Whisky

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Metformin has a lot of unpleasant side I've read.

Also, there is no CJC without DAC. Read the quote I just posted from Anabolics 11th ed.
yeah to be fair you are technically correct on cjc no dac but that’s just how it’s typically referred to so I’ve dropped into that habit.

the main downside to metformin for a lot of people is the gut distress but tbh I’ve never had that to any degree that would be an issue and it settles down within a few days. No other sides at all,

there is talk it can hinder peak aerobic performance (article below) but the degree to which it would is only relevant for the elite athletes. For me personally based on my current knowledge the pro’s far outweigh any cons


 

Rebuild

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Women secrete GH as a bleed, where men secrete in a pulsatile fashion. Inducing GH bleed in men via cjc dac will cause certain cytochrome P450 enzymes to change their concentration to resemble that of a woman's, leading to a change in how men metabolize hormones. The biggest change is a net increase in DHT. So probably not an issue unless someone already has shedding, prostate, or heart problems.
 
ValiantThor08

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Women secrete GH as a bleed, where men secrete in a pulsatile fashion. Inducing GH bleed in men via cjc dac will cause certain cytochrome P450 enzymes to change their concentration to resemble that of a woman's, leading to a change in how men metabolize hormones. The biggest change is a net increase in DHT. So probably not an issue unless someone already has shedding, prostate, or heart problems.
So GH bleed may result in higher DHT?
 
Whisky

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Women secrete GH as a bleed, where men secrete in a pulsatile fashion. Inducing GH bleed in men via cjc dac will cause certain cytochrome P450 enzymes to change their concentration to resemble that of a woman's, leading to a change in how men metabolize hormones. The biggest change is a net increase in DHT. So probably not an issue unless someone already has shedding, prostate, or heart problems.
I recall reading that the bleed was unlikely an issue but it being an issue is the only real argument for not using dac and pinning 1-2 times instead of 3x a day. Honestly it was a while back so I forget the detail but I recall being ok with it being no issue (I tend not to recall detail, just outcome).
 

Rebuild

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So GH bleed may result in higher DHT?
Yeah that's my understanding. If you have heard of datbtrue, he was very much against GH bleed due to cjc dac. He was considered the authority on peptides, but his forum went down a long time ago, and it is hard to find his info. However, I have used cjc dac along with ghrps with great success, and I have talked to an ifbb pro who has used cjc dac along with large doses of ghrp-2 or ipamorelin for long periods of time without issue. And he was given his protocols by a well known doctor at an anti aging clinic. He would not give me his exact dosages, but I believe they were:

1 mg of cjc dac per week along with either:

400 mcg ghrp-2, 2x per day

or

1 mg ipamorelin 2x per day

Also, as you guys have been talking about using mk-677 along with cjc dac, I thought I would mention the ifbb pro no longer uses mk as it destroys his insulin sensitivity and fasting blood sugar. I have also found the same and no longer use it. Definitely not a popular opinion around here, but definitely monitor blood glucose on mk-677.
 
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CroLifter

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Also, as you guys have been talking about using mk-677 along with cjc dac, I thought I would mention the ifbb pro no longer uses mk as it destroys his insulin sensitivity and fasting blood sugar. I have also found the same and no longer use it. Definitely not a popular opinion around here, but definitely monitor blood glucose on mk-677.
That is actually an argument for its high effectiveness.

The only way it can destroy insulin sensitivity is thrpugh constant elevation of gh, and mk produces constant pulses over the 24 hour period, unlike one big spike after a short acting peptide shot.

hence yes it should be cycled, 8 on 4 off has been suggested in the past, now i see 5 on 2 off, 4 on 3 off etc



Aas somewhat help the insulin resistance from mk for sure. Like i said, when exogenous testosterone is in the mix, even trt dose, i dont notice fat gain after i discontinue mk, but if i am off everything, yes, i gain some fat, mainly in the stomach region, after discontinuing mk,
 
Jinsun

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Women secrete GH as a bleed, where men secrete in a pulsatile fashion. Inducing GH bleed in men via cjc dac will cause certain cytochrome P450 enzymes to change their concentration to resemble that of a woman's, leading to a change in how men metabolize hormones. The biggest change is a net increase in DHT. So probably not an issue unless someone already has shedding, prostate, or heart problems.
This for real? Maybe this the reason why you feel more aggressive when on peps?
 

Rebuild

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This for real? Maybe this the reason why you feel more aggressive when on peps?
@Whisky
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EXOGENOUSLY ADMINISTERED GROWTH HORMONE LEADS TO FEMINIZED SECRETORY PATTERN AND ALTERED STEROID METABOLISM
Men and women release growth hormone (GH) in patterns unique to their sex. Adult men secrete growth hormone in a pulsatile pattern with well pronounced peaks of plasma growth hormone occurring approximately every 3.5 hours followed by periods without measurable growth hormone (GH off-time) lasting about two hours.
Male pulsatile GH release pattern

In contrast, adult females have a more frequent growth hormone release which results in near-continuous presence of GH in plasma.
Female continuous GH release pattern

These adult patterns of GH release are set during the first month of life by exposure to gonadal steroids, which program the hypothalamus and its regulation of pituitary GH secretion to behave in sexually distinct ways at the onset of puberty and during adulthood 1.
This difference in pattern has significant consequence primarily determined by the “off time” or period when no detectable GH is present in males or is elevated in females. This “off time”, a period when there is no (or very low) growth hormone present is required for the expression of male-specific liver enzymes, such as cytochrome P450 (CYP) 2C11 2. Without this off time those liver enzymes needed to metabolize male hormones do not get expressed to a significant degree. The reason for this failure appears to primarily result from the fact that the intracellular pathway STAT5b responsible for the synthesis of these enzymes needs time off. If it doesn’t get time off it fails to reset.
The following image will serve to give a quick understanding. Growth Hormone is a molecule that may be visualized as a peg which lands on a receptor where it flips a switch and sets things in motion. One of the things it sets in motion is an intracellular pathway known as signal transducer and activator of transcription 5b (STAT5b). This protein once activated moves to the cell nucleus and initiates the transcription of end product proteins such as liver enzymes. It then is deactivated returns to the receptor and is reactivated to again mediate transcription.
When a pulse of growth hormone activates growth hormone receptors it does so with a strong enough punch that STAT5b undergoes multiple rounds of activity during this single pulse. When a non-pulsatile more feminine continuous growth hormone “bleed” activates growth hormone receptors STAT5b activity is not as vigorous and this activity or mediating cycle is terminated more quickly.
GH receptor activity leads to Stat5b activity

When exogenous growth hormone is administered in a way that causes prolonged elevation of plasma growth hormone the GH pulse induced expression of male specific liver genes is reduced and if long enough completely abolished while the expression of female specific genes is significantly induced 3. This can primarily be attributed to the failure to give STAT5b an “off time” which reduces its activation and partially desensitizes it to growth hormone 4.
GH pulsation leads to greater Stat5b activity

The time period required to reset the STAT5b pathway after a GH pulse is two to three hours 5,6.

Specific Examples
The female P450 isoform CYP3A4 can be thought of as having a role in estradiol homeostasis. Specifically it hydroxylates estradiol at the 2, 4 and 16 alpha positions. It also catablyzes 6 beta-hydroxylation of testosterone which it converts to estradiol by the action of aromatase. This activity is welcome for mammary gland development and lactation if you are a female. But if you are a male with a lot of substrate in the form of testosterone you don’t want this enzyme to be active 15.
Yet patients suffering from acromegaly and men who are given continuous forms of GH treatment end up with greatly upregulated expression of this female liver enzyme 16,17. This female liver enzyme is suppressed by intermittent pulsatile GH 18.
The female P450 isoform CYP3A4 also metabolizes other steroids such as cortisol as well which is converted more rapidly in women then men 19.
Many of the male P450 isoforms have roles in testosterone metabolism such as CYP2C11 which hydroxylases testosterone and converts testosterone to androstenedione for use in resynthesis. This activity is lost when a female pattern of GH release is instituted.
The female GH release profile stimulates the full expression of testosterone 5 alpha reductase activity 20,21. In men with the substrate testosterone this female GH release profile can lead to a substantial conversion of testosterone to Dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
It is also thought that certain environmental triggers and food additives can trigger autoimmune diseases for those genetically predisposed. Alterations in GH release profile brought about by environmental factors make middle aged women more susceptible then men to such triggers as MSG and Aspartame in invoking auto-immune hepatitis 22.
The full treatment of this topic is beyond the scope of this review. This section was meant to underscore the fact that imbalances are created in ways not often considered. Health and a reduction in toxicity require countermeasures which could include the use of compounds such as the Arginine/Lysine combination to reduce cortisol or Sodium Glucuronate to bind and eliminate the byproducts of P450 enzymal activity. Of course another beneficial method would be to optimize sex specific GH release patterns rather then eliminate them.


Copied and pasted from: https://synthetek.com/en/the-science-behind-synthergine-liver-protectant/

The references are found on said page, I could not include them as the post was too long.
 

Rebuild

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Point taken, but there's not a peptide available that's been proven safe in the long term. They're all 'research' chemicals.
Thats not true at all. Sermorelin is widely prescribed before patients are put on actual growth hormone. Tesamorelin is prescribed for fat loss in HIV patients. Most of the other peptides are prescribed by anti-aging clinics. Definitely not just "'research' chemicals."
 
ValiantThor08

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Point taken, but there's not a peptide available that's been proven safe in the long term. They're all 'research' chemicals.
Ipamorelin and modGRF are able to be prescribed. The peptide society states they are effective and safe long term.
 
ValiantThor08

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I pinned 1mg CJC Monday, and today I am nauseous, and feel like I have acid reflux, and cloudy headed. If this imitates how how GH is released in women, how do they make it through the day lol?
 

CroLifter

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I pinned 1mg CJC Monday, and today I am nauseous, and feel like I have acid reflux, and cloudy headed. If this imitates how how GH is released in women, how do they make it through the day lol?
You sure those sides are from gh secretion and not the cjc itself?

perhaps that compound doesnt agree with your body.





Ps: i think i found out the reason for small anxiety attacks i sometimes get after dosing mk677. I never get those attacks during the day after my day dose, but only after my pre bed dose.


I am pretty sure its the drop in blood sugar, because i get shallow heartbeat and if i eat a little bit of bread i am fine.

Makes sense, as my glucose is much lower at 2 am when i havent eaten anything sugary for at least 6.5 hours than during the day.
 
ValiantThor08

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You sure those sides are from gh secretion and not the cjc itself?

perhaps that compound doesnt agree with your body.
I used to he modified GRF version without any issues at all. This is weird. Maybe it's also because tadalafil is in my system. Going to stop taking that.
 
Alchemist11

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I pinned 1mg CJC Monday, and today I am nauseous, and feel like I have acid reflux, and cloudy headed. If this imitates how how GH is released in women, how do they make it through the day lol?
Thats why I advocate to micro dose it every day instead of 1 or 2 mg all at once
 

Rebuild

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I pinned 1mg CJC Monday, and today I am nauseous, and feel like I have acid reflux, and cloudy headed. If this imitates how how GH is released in women, how do they make it through the day lol?
Those are strange sides. Diarrhea and a head rush are the more common sides from taking 1 mg+ cjc dac at a time.
 
Jinsun

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I used to he modified GRF version without any issues at all. This is weird. Maybe it's also because tadalafil is in my system. Going to stop taking that.
Weird you got those sides. Probably something wrong with your source. I never heard of somebody having such sides.
 
Alchemist11

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What kind of sides you get from a larger dose?
Never tried it, I just used common sense to spread it out in more daily injections and with that I felt really good. Plus it seemed way to awkvard for me to do more than 10-15 iu's sub-q
 
Jinsun

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Never tried it, I just used common sense to spread it out in more daily injections and with that I felt really good. Plus it seemed way to awkvard for me to do more than 10-15 iu's sub-q
15 iu's? That's not that much tbh, yuo can also pin it in two locations. I mix, however, 5mg's with 1ml. So it's not to much water.
 
ValiantThor08

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Weird you got those sides. Probably something wrong with your source. I never heard of somebody having such sides.
Could also be the superdrol, and the residual tadalafil I have in my body.
 
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