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Cissus vs. Supercissus

VtecTypeR

Member
Cissus vs. Supercissus(not working as well)

Hey guys I was just wondering what you guys thought of supercissus so far. I've been on it for 2 weeks and I feel that the old stuff was working better for my knees. Usually I dont have knee pain after 1 week on the regular cissus. I've been on the supercissus for 2 weeks now and I havnt felt any difference yet. I'm taking 3 pills a day of the super cissus. I took 4 a day of the old cissus and worked great. Just wondering if anyone has felt the same?
 
Same story here. I've had joint pain for the past ten years Ive tried glucosamine, chondroiten, MSM and Gelatin. MSM/ gelatin worked alittle but when I started an NHA/Powerful/CissusRx stack my joints were healed. Then I ran out of cissus-rx, ran a "cycle"of promagnon, and am now finishing up PCT(Toremifene/DHEA/GABA/Powerful/supercissus). My joints have been killing me. Infact I've left the DHEA in longer and am delaying the 6OXO to get a little more estrogen for my joints.
I've been mixing the super cissus with bulk cissus thinking maybe that would help, it didnt.
I just restarted MSM incase there was some synergistic effect, and, I just started some of the new Powerful. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
I am using 3 pills a day and it seems to be working just as well as 6 of the old formula.
 
This is totally anecdotal but, every time Ive tried to 'mega dose' cissus it's had the opposite effect as my usual, and effective 3-4g/day dose.

Decrease in libido, not much in the way of joint relief, etc. When I brought the dose back to normal, the positive effects kicked in once again.
 
BigVrunga said:
This is totally anecdotal but, every time Ive tried to 'mega dose' cissus it's had the opposite effect as my usual, and effective 3-4g/day dose.

Decrease in libido, not much in the way of joint relief, etc. When I brought the dose back to normal, the positive effects kicked in once again.
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You experienced a reduction in libidofrom cissus? Are you possitive that the cissus caused this? I don't doubt your word, I'm just currious. Has anyone else reported such a reaction? And do you or any of the reps know the method of action behind such a reaction?
 
You experienced a reduction in libidofrom cissus? Are you possitive that the cissus caused this? I don't doubt your word, I'm just currious. Has anyone else reported such a reaction? And do you or any of the reps know the method of action behind such a reaction?
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No idea bro, like I said its anectdotal. I was part of USP's 'megadose cissus' trial and was taking ~9g a day at one point. Its the only thing I was on at the time other than the essentials (multi,etc), and when I reduced the dose my libido surged back just like it does with Cissus at a normal doseage.

I thought I noticed a reduction in libido with thier old 'Synergy' product as well, which was a concentrated Cissus extract.

I found the old log if you're interested. Not a very detailed on Im afraid but it does chronicle the libido loss:

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BV
 
saludable24 said:
You experienced a reduction in libidofrom cissus? Are you possitive that the cissus caused this? I don't doubt your word, I'm just currious. Has anyone else reported such a reaction? And do you or any of the reps know the method of action behind such a reaction?
Click to expand...

Maybe from estrogen buildup? At least I have read that elsewhere, concerning cissus. "Some" estrogen production might could explain the joint/tendon relief some have described. There is no evidence of that, that I know of though. But then there is no evidence I know of that cissus can help joints and tendons, either. The only studies I have read about are the ones that suggest that it might aid in quicker healing of bones after surgery.

I have been using cissus for many months and have not really noticed anything in the way of sore joints/tendons relief. Started with the bulk cissus. Then got the Super Cissus, as well as the AP with the Synergy. Then I noticed that my nipples were getting really sore. Can't say for sure what is causing that, but could be from the same cause as what caused BigVrunga's loss of libido....maybe a little too much estrogen from using SuperCissus plus the Synergy in the AP?? I don't know, but I have started to cut back on the Cissus and last couple of days the soreness in my nipples has decreased.

It would have been great if BigVrunga could have had estrogen checked before and after that test.
 
GO_OUTSIDE! said:
Same story here. I've had joint pain for the past ten years Ive tried glucosamine, chondroiten, MSM and Gelatin. MSM/ gelatin worked alittle but when I started an NHA/Powerful/CissusRx stack my joints were healed. Then I ran out of cissus-rx, ran a "cycle"of promagnon, and am now finishing up post cycle therapy(Toremifene/DHEA/GABA/Powerful/supercissus). My joints have been killing me.
Click to expand...

No offense intended, but I just have to "love" statements like..."my joints were healed". How does one know that without a firm diagnosis from a qualified MD or Osteopath before hand, and after? "Relief of pain" could have been due to previous supps working over time, as well as the stack you mentioned.

In any event, I guess you were not really healed, since you then state that "My joints have been killing me." I just think that one has to be careful and realistic when making statements about healing, and people reading it should as well.

BTW, I do like your user name...go_outside. I agree. Gotta love the great outdoors.
 
kbp said:
Maybe from estrogen buildup? At least I have read that elsewhere, concerning cissus. "Some" estrogen production might could explain the joint/tendon relief some have described. There is no evidence of that, that I know of though. But then there is no evidence I know of that cissus can help joints and tendons, either. The only studies I have read about are the ones that suggest that it might aid in quicker healing of bones after surgery.

I have been using cissus for many months and have not really noticed anything in the way of sore joints/tendons relief. Started with the bulk cissus. Then got the Super Cissus, as well as the AP with the Synergy. Then I noticed that my nipples were getting really sore. Can't say for sure what is causing that, but could be from the same cause as what caused BigVrunga's loss of libido....maybe a little too much estrogen from using SuperCissus plus the Synergy in the AP?? I don't know, but I have started to cut back on the Cissus and last couple of days the soreness in my nipples has decreased.

It would have been great if BigVrunga could have had estrogen checked before and after that test.
Click to expand...


I'll investigate the estrogen connection, though it is extremely unlikely. Cissus' MOA is slightly more preventative in soft tissue as opposed to reparative as it is in bones. However, it should still deliver analgesic relief to tendons/ligaments. And some research is out there regarding the healing of ligaments/tendons, ya just gotta look ;)
 
kbp said:
Maybe from estrogen buildup? At least I have read that elsewhere, concerning cissus. "Some" estrogen production might could explain the joint/tendon relief some have described. There is no evidence of that, that I know of though. But then there is no evidence I know of that cissus can help joints and tendons, either. The only studies I have read about are the ones that suggest that it might aid in quicker healing of bones after surgery.

I have been using cissus for many months and have not really noticed anything in the way of sore joints/tendons relief. Started with the bulk cissus. Then got the Super Cissus, as well as the AP with the Synergy. Then I noticed that my nipples were getting really sore. Can't say for sure what is causing that, but could be from the same cause as what caused BigVrunga's loss of libido....maybe a little too much estrogen from using SuperCissus plus the Synergy in the AP?? I don't know, but I have started to cut back on the Cissus and last couple of days the soreness in my nipples has decreased.

It would have been great if BigVrunga could have had estrogen checked before and after that test.
Click to expand...


I'll investigate the estrogen connection, though it is extremely unlikely. Cissus' MOA is slightly more preventative in soft tissue as opposed to reparative as it is in bones. However, it should still deliver analgesic relief to tendons/ligaments. And some research is out there regarding the healing of ligaments/tendons, ya just gotta look ;)
 
It would have been great if BigVrunga could have had estrogen checked before and after that test.
Click to expand...

I really should have, in the past Ive been neglectful with bloodwork. I need to get on that:)
 
kbp said:
No offense intended, but I just have to "love" statements like..."my joints were healed". How does one know that without a firm diagnosis from a qualified MD or Osteopath before hand, and after? "Relief of pain" could have been due to previous supps working over time, as well as the stack you mentioned.

In any event, I guess you were not really healed, since you then state that "My joints have been killing me." I just think that one has to be careful and realistic when making statements about healing, and people reading it should as well.

BTW, I do like your user name...go_outside. I agree. Gotta love the great outdoors.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Its almost like stating cissus elevates estrogen because you heard it somwhere on a forum.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I'll investigate the estrogen connection, though it is extremely unlikely. Cissus' MOA is slightly more preventative in soft tissue as opposed to reparative as it is in bones. However, it should still deliver analgesic relief to tendons/ligaments. And some research is out there regarding the healing of ligaments/tendons, ya just gotta look ;)
Click to expand...

Cissus stimulates osteoblasts and osteoclast formation.

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Can tendon injuries cause bone loss?

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As far as healed I don't think that's going to happen with out going under the knife again. For pain however I do notice a great deal of relief from Supercissus. I take one in the morning before work with a sirplus and a couple of other perscription pills that have nothing to do with pain managment.
 
Thats right healed!!!!
OK... so I was taking liberty with the language. What I should have said is "Before: my left shoulder hurt so bad I couldnt train properly. After: I havent had any shoulder pain. I can box, lift, row and most importantly sleep on my side."
Too follow up, the new joint pain I have had is subsiding some, cant say if it is the added MSM, Powerfull or just plain time. How long is the new cissus supposed to take to "kick in"? My recollection is that the old cissus-rx started working within a few days.
 
USPLabs said:
I agree.

Its almost like stating cissus elevates estrogen because you heard it somwhere on a forum.
Click to expand...

Touché ..... or, maybe not?

It's almost like "stating" that someone made a "statement" from a "question". A statement is followed by a period. A question is followed by a question mark (?).

If one re-reads my post it is clear I make a question, not a statement. Then...I stated I had read that elsewhere. (I don't actually remember where...might have been on a forum). But notice that I then state..."There is no evidence of that, that I know of though".

It was a "question" concerning the reason why BigVrunga had a decrease in libido. There really is no way to know the answer without further testing and bloodwork. I personally would not think of Cissus as being an estrogen stimulator, but then, I am finding out that there are many things that do, that I would never thought to be the case, including certain plants and herbs.

Defense of the product by USP understood. No problem. Just do not want to be quoted as making a "statement" that I did not make.
 
GO_OUTSIDE! said:
"Before: my left shoulder hurt so bad I couldnt train properly. After: I havent had any shoulder pain. I can box, lift, row and most importantly sleep on my side."
Click to expand...

I have had a very similar experience with my left shoulder. Interesting. I too cannot do some things training. I can military press without too much trouble, but cannot even lift just the bar to do an upright row without a lot of pain...and then only half way. It all depends on the angle of my arm and elbow as to what I can do, or not. And I often awake at night with shoulder pain. Weird thing, just like you mentioned, I cannot sleep on my left side for very long without shoulder pain, plus I often wake up with my whole left arm very numb.

I have tried just about every supplement I know of and nothing has really helped, including Cissus. As far as I can tell the Cissus has not helped my other sore joints and tendons as well, but I continue to take it. It is fortunate for you that you have gotten the relief that you have. But if it works for you, I say, more power to you.

I finally realized that I have to get some medical intervention or risk permanent damage....it might already be too late. I saw a specialist this past week and she ordered x-rays. She thinks I have an impingement or a rupture. She says that if the rupture is over a year old, then even surgery may not completely remedy it. So we will see. Perhaps Cissus might be an aid in healing if I have surgery. But so far, unfortunately, for me I have not had the same success with Cissus that some others report.
 
BigVrunga said:
I have found that Cissus combined with Hyaluronic acid is the best joint care cocktail Ive ever used.
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How and at what level do you dose the Hyaluronic acid? Using the super cissus and it helps. But 4 knee surgeries later, my surgeon is looking at another or knee replacement and I am 29.
 
Yeah that sucks man, sorry to hear that. I dont have the mg's on me right now, but I use the Jarrow brand and take 4-6 caps a day.
 
For a further update... My joint pain is continuing to diminish, it's almost gone. I am currently using 3caps supper cissus, 3 caps powerful(new), 2gramsx2 MSM, NHA stack.
What is doing what is hard to say but if you dont care exactly which supplement is doing what, and you just want your joints to stop hurting, you might just try them all. If your on this site you'll appreciate the side effects (less fat, more libido, harder possibly larger muscles).
 
Obviously, it's very difficult to get blood flow into the joint, ligament, and tendon areas compared to muscle. Such difficultly tends to progressively worsen with aging. Cissus is one of the few supplements I've noticed to quickly exhibit noticeable effects when compared to other substances like Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM. The strength increases gained in training intensity, load parameters, and duration are very real, even at only 4 caps a day.

Concerning joint tissue and recovery, training loads definitely have to be managed with this area under consideration. For example, if someone is employing nearly all the effective supplements for joint healing and recovery, then it becomes imperative to use a progressively higher volume of lighter sets in the warm-up and at times even in the training set phases of workouts, over extended periods of time. Cissus alkaloid saturated blood flow will be better able to enter the surrounding areas, for more efficient healing, at the cellular level. As far as estrogen is concerned, I disagree that Cissus would likely have such effects, for the reason that its prohibitive action of glucocorticoids would indirectly better sustain testosterone levels, which in turn may hinder such aforementioned estrogenic activity.
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EDIT: Done. Next time, show some decency before deleting entire messages.

Thanks a lot rpen22. I appreciate you letting me know. Aside from that, I figured that I shed some light on how to make simple training adjustments to exploit the compound's effectiveness. I wanted to do this before I discussed how Cissus actually works. I see that I've also gotten off to a "great" start with whoever deleted my post. I guess we all have a bit of an edge.
 
Hey iFlex, unless you've already cleared it with Bobo, you might not wanna be advertising that(your?) supplement retail site in your posts. Just lettin you know.
 
kbp said:
I have had a very similar experience with my left shoulder. Interesting. I too cannot do some things training. I can military press without too much trouble, but cannot even lift just the bar to do an upright row without a lot of pain...and then only half way. It all depends on the angle of my arm and elbow as to what I can do, or not. And I often awake at night with shoulder pain. Weird thing, just like you mentioned, I cannot sleep on my left side for very long without shoulder pain, plus I often wake up with my whole left arm very numb.

I have tried just about every supplement I know of and nothing has really helped, including Cissus. As far as I can tell the Cissus has not helped my other sore joints and tendons as well, but I continue to take it. It is fortunate for you that you have gotten the relief that you have. But if it works for you, I say, more power to you.

I finally realized that I have to get some medical intervention or risk permanent damage....it might already be too late. I saw a specialist this past week and she ordered x-rays. She thinks I have an impingement or a rupture. She says that if the rupture is over a year old, then even surgery may not completely remedy it. So we will see. Perhaps Cissus might be an aid in healing if I have surgery. But so far, unfortunately, for me I have not had the same success with Cissus that some others report.
Click to expand...

kbp, I strongly believe that you should give up the upright rows, as they can only exacerbate the existing problem. Upright rows contribute to this risk, in large part, according to how the top of the shoulder bone turns into the rotator space when performing the movement. If you notice, whenever you perform a pushing movement, the positioning of the forearms, triceps, and delts relative to the resistance doesn't result in comparatively much pain. An alternative combination of movements may actually involve just using higher repetition military presses for direct shoulder targeting, and adjusting chest training towards bench presses and dips. In other words, the substitution of adequate pressing movements for the upright row should keep you on the development pace, while leveraging the healing process from any treatments you may undergo.

This is important for the reason that maximizing the joint regenerative properties of Cissus is highly dependent on the above and similar critical training adjustments, in effect targeting the affected area(s).
 
iFlex said:
kbp, I strongly believe that you should give up the upright rows, as they can only exacerbate the existing problem. Upright rows contribute to this risk, in large part, according to how the top of the shoulder bone turns into the rotator space when performing the movement. If you notice, whenever you perform a pushing movement, the positioning of the forearms, triceps, and delts relative to the resistance doesn't result in comparatively much pain. An alternative combination of movements may actually involve just using higher repetition military presses for direct shoulder targeting, and adjusting chest training towards bench presses and dips. In other words, the substitution of adequate pressing movements for the upright row should keep you on the development pace, while leveraging the healing process from any treatments you may undergo.

This is important for the reason that maximizing the joint regenerative properties of Cissus is highly dependent on the above and similar critical training adjustments, in effect targeting the affected area(s).
Click to expand...

amen to that!
 
iFlex said:
kbp, I strongly believe that you should give up the upright rows, as they can only exacerbate the existing problem..... An alternative combination of movements may actually involve just using higher repetition military presses for direct shoulder targeting, and adjusting chest training towards bench presses and dips.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input and suggestions. I have not done upright rows for quite some time. I am not a pain freak and avoid it when possible. From experience I have come to learn the difference in the kind of pain that comes from just a good burn and hard workout, vs. the kind of pain that comes from "hurting" yourself.

The thing with the shoulder problems...I am fairly certain this occurred over time doing upright rows at a weight that my tendons and ligaments could not comfortably handle, even though I had the muscle strength. There was not a specific time while lifting that I said.."ouch"...dang that hurt. But then I began to get pain in the shoulders while doing things like laying my arm up on the window sill while driving, or anything else where I would raise my elbow. Then I found that I could not do the same weight with the upright rows and it was painful. So I did not do them for many months, and then would try now and then with just a bar....still painful....so I have given up upright rows for now.

As far as shoulder exercises, and bench presses, etc., I now always take plenty of time to warm the shoulders really good with high reps of light weights and several movements, until I feel a good burn. I do several warm-ups and get the shoulders prepared for the heavier weights. I have found this really helps. Of course, I have always done warm-ups, but I just really take the time to do it well for the shoulders now.
 
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