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Christians and Steroids?

Coolkat

Member
Any body else out there a Christian and uses AAS to be the best you can?

For me at age 46, it is like, self HRT. I suspect Pat Robertson would not be opposed to HRT.

He admits to using Creatine.

Anybody else???
 
I think it's a personal decision. I don't think it's unethical or immoral. Some christians would say yes, others who are more educated on the subject may say no.

I don't think anyone who is thoroughly educated on AAS would fully condemn their usage--although they may not take them, they definately would not condemn them, atleast not 99% of those ppl anyway.
 
I think this topic is a powder keg. While the discussion will probably be interesting it will undoubtedly become very heated. It should probably be put in General Topics.
 
Coolkat said:
Any body else out there a Christian and uses AAS to be the best you can?

For me at age 46, it is like, self HRT. I suspect Pat Robertson would not be opposed to HRT.

He admits to using Creatine.

Anybody else???
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Can't speak for myself, but a friend of mine is a youth minister and I am sure he has run a few cycles over the years. We wrestled together in high school (he was in the 125 or 135lb weight class) and now is about 225 at @10-12%bf. He looks huge at 5'6 or 5'7 .Sucks that he is almost as big as me and I was the Heavyweight. He doesn't talk about it and I don't ask, but it is fairly obvious. He said he was thinking of competing again but wanted the church to give him thier blessing to do it.
It doesn't seem to bother him...
 
Christianity (as a way of life/faith/religion) would likely be against illegal activity. That said, if you believe in your heart of hearts that the government has no moral right to dictate/legislate your personal (God-given) freedom, then even Christ himself would probably encourage you to resist such a law. Jesus certainly had his own personal conflicts with governmental law/decree. Of course, it made his situation rather tenuous, as the steroid issue could certainly make yours. Bottom line, personal decision. And as Null suggests, probably a real can o' worms. Everybody be nice!!!
 
I think the issue isn't the use of steroids, but why you are using them. If it's solely for vanity then their may be moral, or ethical problems. Personally i don't have a problem w/it.
 
It's all about what religion means to you. If vanity is implemented in such a way that it can be looked at as getting what you want in a more or less "unpure" way, then yes, IMHO it isn't christian like. I've been a practicing catholic all my life. Have done all of the sacraments, yet I myself fall into this category. Vanity is a very hard thing to get by for myself. Male dominance is bliss in my mental being and that by itself will/has/can caus(ed) me many problems in my life. Being the best as an overall human being is often overlooked.
 
My question to you would be; do you want to discuss AAS with Christian users or Christianity with non Christian AAS users? If your intention is to instigate a conflict, with the insinuation of the hypocracy, selfrighteousness, etc., etc., I'll not be party to it. For that matter we could then discuss Christians and overindulgence in food. Christians and adultery. Christians and pornography. Christians and gambling. Christians and viewing network television.

"None are righteous and all fall short of the glory of God". This includes Christians.
 
Knowbull said:
Christianity in America is rapidly taking on the face of Fascism, let us all remember who the first steroid users in the world were: NAZIS!
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You're kidding right? I mean..this wasn't a serious post was it?

You made two connections betwen three things that were absolutely ridiculous. So, I'm assuming you forgot to put the smiley face next to the post.
 
milwood said:
Christianity (as a way of life/faith/religion) would likely be against illegal activity. That said, if you believe in your heart of hearts that the government has no moral right to dictate/legislate your personal (God-given) freedom, then even Christ himself would probably encourage you to resist such a law. Jesus certainly had his own personal conflicts with governmental law/decree. Of course, it made his situation rather tenuous, as the steroid issue could certainly make yours. Bottom line, personal decision. And as Null suggests, probably a real can o' worms. Everybody be nice!!!
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at right now myself. I think this qoute was the closest to an answer anyone's gonna get. I've been trying to find a moral loophole for this for a couple months now. I go back and forth and back and forth....just can't decide. I've been reading my Bible trying to find out what it's says about something specific to steroids. So far it's been a debate on vanity and legality. I'm more worried about the legalities. The bible calls for respect for the governent no matter what (except rejecting Christ). Here's the thing though: The government is beggining to get more and more strict on vitamins, pro-hormones, minerals, and OTC counter pharmaceuticals. When vitamin c starts to come under Gov authority, I will begin to look into juice. There's only soo much regulation that I can take. (or maybe i won't....even that sounds hypocritical!....dang....) :frustrate
 
i'm a christian, and i have no moral problems taking steroids. to me it is the same as taking vitamins, allergy medication, etc. if i feel that steroids were ever to lead me astray (i.e. cause me to sin in other ways) than i would stop. until that point, i have no second thoughts. the one thing that does come into play is 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. Peter states
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's
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Hahahahaa...speak of the devil :D I work @ a nutrition store, and a guy who happens to be a pastor to be just came in. He's on cycle right now :D He's going to stop once he starts preaching though. He has cycled for years too.

This also brings me to a point. I can't believe how many people have been cycling for years who dont even look like they work out much...WTF? :think:
 
I am a christian, and dont feel that taking steroids in and of itself is a sin necessarily, just because it is illegal does not necessarily mean it is a sin, I mean alcohol is legal and it wrecks more lives and causes people to do more immoral activities than do steroids. Prayer is now illegal in public schools, so is praying a sin? NO WAY! But where I feel that taking steroids could be a sin is the whole vanity part and becoming obsessed with yourself, that is where the problem begins. For looks is the major contributing factor for people to take steroids, but I dont think it is a sin to want to make yourself look good, just when you take it to excess. It is just like everything else, in moderation it is ok, but when taken to excessive levels problems arise. I had struggled with this decision for quite some time, but decided to do them and not let it take over my life. The body is a temple of God as the bible says, so any substance that is harmful to the body is a sin, as the way I take it, so be sure to take your liver protectants, bp meds, and AI's lol. Its not that easy. This is a very tough topic, so much to discuss. I believe what it all boils down to is your personal beliefs, and once it takes over your life then it becomes immoral.

This reminds me of a preacher that used to come to my gym last year, I only saw him a few times, but it was so obvious he was juiced to the gills, he had the most amazing physique I have ever seen in real life, so thick and full, but with paper thin skin and crazy vascularity. I never went up to talk to him, wish I would have.
 
A Christian is to be in submission to the government that is over him.

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers." This is speaking about a Christian's responsibility to government. It is not applicable to the non-Christian. Whatever government a Christian finds himself under, he is to be in submission and obedience to it. This was spoken by Paul who lived under one of the most tyrannical dictatorships of all time, Nero's rule of Rome. It was the Roman government that put Christ to death, and Nero later executed the Apostle Paul (this is good info for context).

Are they morally wrong in and of themselves? I am of the opinion that they are not.

Are they, strictly speaking, Biblically wrong? In this country, most certainly.

Tot the best of my knowledge, the only thing you can still take (and possibly even posses) and still be line with Biblical teachings is 1,4 AD (I think it's still legal right?).

This is not to condemn anyone either...this line of thinking is Biblically based. It's not based on my personal opinion (except possibly the 1,4 AD part).

So, can a Christian take AAS? Sure
Will he be living in accordance with the teachings of scripture? Not unless they are prescribed.
 
I think that I am more concerned with the laws of God than those of man. If you really think about it, the Top Ten

(10 commandments) are hard enough to maintain
 
It's all about your motivation.
If you going to use steroids to go out and fight little people at bars and dirty clubs - than that's probably an un-Christian thing.
If you're healthy and been training for a long time and want to blast through your own personal pleateus - than that's probably consistant
 
and ask yourself this question, if steroids were legal would you consider them 'bad' or in conflict with Christianity?

As long as your intentions are good, and you don't abuse steroids - it isn't in conflict with Christianity (in my opinion).


Abuse of anything is 'un-Christian' because it has taken over your life. Steroids, alcohol, crack, cigarettes, television, vitamin B12, sex, washing your hands - anything can be 'abused'.
 
supersize77 said:
A Christian is to be in submission to the government that is over him.

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers." This is speaking about a Christian's responsibility to government. It is not applicable to the non-Christian. Whatever government a Christian finds himself under, he is to be in submission and obedience to it. This was spoken by Paul who lived under one of the most tyrannical dictatorships of all time, Nero's rule of Rome. It was the Roman government that put Christ to death, and Nero later executed the Apostle Paul (this is good info for context).

Are they morally wrong in and of themselves? I am of the opinion that they are not.

Are they, strictly speaking, Biblically wrong? In this country, most certainly.

Tot the best of my knowledge, the only thing you can still take (and possibly even posses) and still be line with Biblical teachings is 1,4 AD (I think it's still legal right?).

This is not to condemn anyone either...this line of thinking is Biblically based. It's not based on my personal opinion (except possibly the 1,4 AD part).

So, can a Christian take AAS? Sure
Will he be living in accordance with the teachings of scripture? Not unless they are prescribed.
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and therein lies the beauty of christianity; it's open to interpretation. if you feel that it is holding you back from your relationship with christ, than by all means don't use steroids. the scripture you posted brings up the whole debate of whether the bible is a literal work, or figurative. what if the government said lifting weights was illegal, would you stop? i sure as hell wouldn't. when a law unreasonably infringes on my personal freedoms, than i choose not to follow it.
 
supersize77 said:
A Christian is to be in submission to the government that is over him.

So, can a Christian take AAS? Sure
Will he be living in accordance with the teachings of scripture? Not unless they are prescribed.
Click to expand...
Christians were not in submission to the Roman government which was over them. They died as entertainment for the Romans because of it before the conversion of the Roman Empire.

Christians are to be in submission to the government that is over them so long as the government does not make laws contrary to Christian doctrine.

As far as making substances illegal and using a legalistic loophole to not make it a sin...Hogwash! Christianity was never about the law, not Government Law and it replaced Jewish Law with Grace. So, it isn't a sin if you can bribe a doctor or find a doctor to prescribe it but the same substance use is a sin without it...I don't think so. It doesn't wash with me. Either it is regardless of a prescription or it's not.

Personally, from a Christian doctrinal perspective, anything that harms the body in a direct way is probably a sin since the body is to be treated as a temple and as the Image of God. Now if one can argue that AAS is detrimental to the body or helpful to the body. I guess it's got to be individual. Some people can use and be healthy, others cannot.
 
exactly: use - and not abuse is the key to almost everything in life.
Moderation - i guess you can say.
 
OK then how does pride factor in here. Its already been stated that the reason most people take them is in fact vanity reasons. Therefore it falls under one of the seven deadly sins, infact it falls under the daddy of all the seven deadly sins. I think we would all have to agree that when on cycle it is feeling like superman and that in and of itself is pride.

What it is: Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

This is not to condemn anyone, I myself am not a Christian but it seems to me that regardless of legal reasons it is a sin - personal beliefs wether it is ok or not is totally irrelevant. This is of course if you are taking them for vanity reasons, ANY vanity reasons.
 
I'm new to the group but not to the love and passion of bodybuilding. I've grown up as a "Christian" and still am. I have and will continue to use supplements with no regrets or shame. THANK GOD FOR GIVING MAN THE IDEA!! I am proud of what accomplishments I have made in this sport. Some look at my choice to "use" as being abusive to my body. We build, not break down our bodies. Most of us here in this group are healthier than most of America. We work hard with BLOOD AND SWEAT for the results. I think that when God blesses us with a sound mind we should use it and be smart about what/how we take.
I like to think that whatever decision you make is "OK!" Just make sure to pray over your gear before using it!! :box:
 
Personally I don't think theres any way to reconcile the general use of steroids in our case with Christian beliefs.

If it were for HRT, only low/moderate test should be used. I don't how m-1-t/winstrol etc for HRT can be justified. Who even knows the long term effects of all the new steroids will be.

We use it for vanities sake and fix the damage with PCT.

Edit: Its true that many of us are healthier than the general pop. But its inspite of steroid use not because of it.
 
FrTimothy said:
As far as making substances illegal and using a legalistic loophole to not make it a sin...Hogwash! Christianity was never about the law, not Government Law and it replaced Jewish Law with Grace. So, it isn't a sin if you can bribe a doctor or find a doctor to prescribe it but the same substance use is a sin without it...I don't think so. It doesn't wash with me. Either it is regardless of a prescription or it's not.
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It doesn't have to wash with you to be Biblical. If the Bible says Christians are to be in submission to the government and they take illegal substances, they are not living in accordance with scripture. You may not personally agree with that but that is what the Bible teaches. I am not personally familiar with all of the nuances of prescriptions but as far as I know, if you have a valid prescription for something, it's legal.

As far as AAS harming the body...that is debatable. However, it is clear what the Bibles stance is on taking AAS without a valid prescription (in this country) or breaking any other law for that matter. You are correct that “Christians are to be in submission to the government that is over them so long as the government does not make laws contrary to Christian doctrine.� I'm pretty sure that laws against AAS are not against Christian doctrine so this principle does not apply to this particular situation. Please let me emphasize that this is not my opinion. Whether or not you agree with what the Bible says or believe in the validity of the Bible is another question. Don't take my word for it, read Romans 13 for youself. It says what it says.
 
I did not want to get into a argument and I still don't. But I wanted to contribute to the discussion a couple points.

If I believe correctly there were two laws. There was Roman law and Jewish law (disciples of Moses). I recall in John 9 when Jesus healed the blind man and the Pharasies claimed that he was not of God because he performed this miracle on the sabbath. He was a law breaker. Not only was he not of God, but he was a sinner as well. The Jews never, and still don't accept Jesus as the Christ. They adhere to the laws of Moses. But the law of Moses was the old covenant. Jesus, the Christ, was the New Covenant. This new covenant, abolished the old covenant and it's doctrines. The new covenant, in my opinion was the Spirit of what the law was to be rather than the-overzealous-to-the-letter-of-the-law that the Jews/Pharasies practiced.

My take on AAS as well as everything else that I encounter, engage in, participate in, view, listen to, consume, etc. is measured by the Spirit. The Spirit has fruit and the Spirit does grieve. I can judge whether my means justify the ends by the fruits of my labor. I mean much more than the acrual of LBM. I mean the fruitfulness of my family life, friendships, personal realtionships, my joy, my sensitivity, my temperment, my disposition, etc. I also take very seriously the conviction of the Spirit. If my Spirit is grieved it will be very evident to me. If I am born again I live by the Spirit. The Spirit IS God living in me.
 
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chasec said:
and therein lies the beauty of christianity; it's open to interpretation. if you feel that it is holding you back from your relationship with christ, than by all means don't use steroids. the scripture you posted brings up the whole debate of whether the bible is a literal work, or figurative. what if the government said lifting weights was illegal, would you stop? i sure as hell wouldn't. when a law unreasonably infringes on my personal freedoms, than i choose not to follow it.
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I stay out of religious discussions...

but what you call beauty; I call fallacy... interpretations of the original Word has created enough conflict... Catholicism vs Church of England anyone? thats just the tip of the iceberg...
cults and pseudo-religions are formed from "interpretation"

Its why I don't go to church anymore. "This is what it says, but this is what I think it REALLY says."
 
It doesn't have to wash with you to be Biblical. If the Bible says Christians are to be in submission to the government and they take illegal substances, they are not living in accordance with scripture. You may not personally agree with that but that is what the Bible teaches
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this is your opinion, and i respect it; however let me raise a question. lets say the government proposed an amendment and said "worshipping of god is hereby forbidden." would you follow it? no, because your intellect would tell you that the law isn't just, and therefore doesn't have to be followed. it is stated in the constitution of the US even. so how far of a stretch is it to do the same thing from a biblical standpoint? I am submissive to the government when it's laws don't infringe on my personal freedoms unnecessarily.

also, you are taking a very literal translation of the bible. do you also believe in the literal translation of Matthew 5:29-30, ? what about the whole eye for an eye doctrine? my point is most of the bible's lessons are taught in metaphors and are to be used according to the circumstances in modern society. the bit about being submissive to government is outdated, and was relevant in a time when the romans didn't dictate where you could buy your supplements, what you could and couldn't consume, and other miscellaneous laws that really are just plain trivial. back then they cared about murders, rape, etc.

Therefore it falls under one of the seven deadly sins, infact it falls under the daddy of all the seven deadly sins. I think we would all have to agree that when on cycle it is feeling like superman and that in and of itself is pride. What it is: Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. This is not to condemn anyone, I myself am not a Christian but it seems to me that regardless of legal reasons it is a sin - personal beliefs wether it is ok or not is totally irrelevant. This is of course if you are taking them for vanity reasons, ANY vanity reasons.
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hmn, i think that the bible makes clear that a sin is a sin, and all are equal in the eyes of god. whether you murder someone or stare for an extra second at that hottie in the mall, both make you unworthy of gods love. so the whole "7 deadly sins" idea is gone... the only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy against god ...
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the basis of your argument seems to be that anything done to improve self image is a sin; if this were true many of lifes pleasures which are harmless would be considered sins to you. the other part of your argument makes broad generalizations about the effects of steroids mentally, physically, and emotionally. i for one don't develop excessive belief in myself that would interfere with my relationship with christ. is my self confidence higher? absolutely, but it is for you when you buy that new pair of nike's, wear the new shirt you bought, drive a new car, etc. vanity has it's purposes and like anything else must be controlled and put in moderation. i don't think jesus's opinion of my life would change if i weigh 180 or 240. i'm still the same god fearing man i am today regarless of what ergogenic aids i take. they can even be used to glorify god. take for example the strong man teams that travel around doing feats of strength and then ministering to little kids after the shows. does that seem wrong to you? anything has the potential to be used for gods glory.
 
If you take them to glorify God then would that really be taking them for vanity reasons?
I also said that it only applies if you are taking them for vanity reasons, and yes buying those new Nike's, if you are doing it solely to wear them to make yourself look better, does fall under vanity and by many religious sects would be considered a sin. Say if you bought those new Nike's because they are the best shoe you can afford and you feel they protect your feet and knees and back while you run, or play sports then I dont think that would fall under vanity; that would fall under protecting your body. Steroids I dont see where they can be justified in that context except for competetive sports players (if I was going up against a 300lb juiced linebacker I would want to rely on more than football pads protecting me)

The seven deadly sins are sins that have been declared as detrimental to spiritual development, that is why they are called the Seven Deadly Sins not because they are unforgiveable. I think it was Dante who said that pride is the sin that cannot be overcome because it can always be justified and anything can be done for pride's sake.

I myself like Ghandi's list of sins better.

1.Wealth without Work
2.Pleasure without Conscience
3.Science without Humanity
4.Knowledge without Character
5.Politics without Principle
6.Commerce without Morality
7.Worship without Sacrifice

Now to shorten this up a bit, any responsible steroid user fits into these guidelines. Steroids wont give you one without the other, there are sacrifices and work that comes with steroids.

My post was also to show that I dont think legality has any role if they are a sin or not.

Peace
 
good points. mainly i feel it's a personal decison. if it hinders your walk with christ, drop it. if not, use responsibly!
 
chasec said:
good points. mainly i feel it's a personal decison. if it hinders your walk with christ, drop it. if not, use responsibly!
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Wow, brutal subject. I echo Chasec's point.

As far as the law goes, I'll give you my two cents coming from someone who works in the justice system and is also a Bible-believing Christian.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not immoral to a Christian's beliefs. Abortion is perfectly legal and I believe that most Christians are against it.

And I have never done AAS since about 1986-87 because it was out of control for me. My building of my temple became a god to me and I repented. Then with the advent of PH/PS, I used that, very responsibly I might add. Then as of 2005, that became an illegal act. Well, if CODEX gets ratified and vitamin C and zinc, etc., becomes an illegal act, where do we go from there?

I think the closest analogy would be the drinking of alcohol to a Christian. You have basically two camps when it comes to that subject. You have the total abstinence camp which says all alcohol is a sin and one should abstain. And you have the other camp that says it's okay to have a glass of wine or two with dinner, or some beer on a hot summer day and that there's nothing wrong with that.

But both camps would agree that if one were to get drunk every single day and start to see financial, health, legal, and family issues start coming up because of drinking, then it's time to let it go.

That's sort of how I see AAS use. A non-bodybuilder, whether Christian or secular could never see a reason to use AAS, and drinking would be the poorest analogy for them. But I take Chasec's viewpoint on this, that if AAS use interferes with your worship of God, then it's time to reevaluate. There was a similar thread on Shawn Ray's column at bb.com a few months ago on this topic.
 
this is your opinion, and i respect it; however let me raise a question. lets say the government proposed an amendment and said "worshipping of god is hereby forbidden." would you follow it? no, because your intellect would tell you that the law isn't just, and therefore doesn't have to be followed.

>My intellect would tell me not to do it because the Bible forbids obeying laws that are contrary to scripture. This is the only time that civil disobedience is Biblically justified. For me personally it wouldn’t have much to do with my subjective sense of right and wrong. My decision to not obey your hypothetical law would be based on what I believe to be the objective teachings of scripture. So to sum it up, from a Biblical perspective, the general rule would be for Christians to submit to the Government and the exception to this general rule would be when the Government is trying to force a Christain to do something that is contrary to scripture.

it is stated in the constitution of the US even.

>What is?

so how far of a stretch is it to do the same thing from a biblical standpoint? I am submissive to the government when it's laws don't infringe on my personal freedoms unnecessarily.

>Then you are basing your obedience on your subjective opinion which you have every right to do. I choose to base my decision on what I believe to be objective…the Bible. My opinions vary but the Bible remains the same.

also, you are taking a very literal translation of the bible. do you also believe in the literal translation of Matthew 5:29-30, ? what about the whole eye for an eye doctrine?

>Jesus was not advocating self-mutilation (the Bible teaches that this would not in fact cure lust, which is actually a problem of the heart). He was using this graphic hyperbole to demonstrate the seriousness of sins of lust and evil desire. The point is that it would be “more profitable� to lose a member of one’s own body than to bear the eternal consequences of the guilt from such a sin. Sin must be dealt with drastically because of its deadly effects. Jesus often spoke in parable/hyperbole throughout the New Testament.

my point is most of the bible's lessons are taught in metaphors and are to be used according to the circumstances in modern society. the bit about being submissive to government is outdated, and was relevant in a time when the romans didn't dictate where you could buy your supplements, what you could and couldn't consume, and other miscellaneous laws that really are just ðlain trivial. back then`they cared about murders, rape, etc.

>I personally don’t think that most of the Bibles teachings are taught in metaphor but a few most certainly are. If you believe that certain parts of the Bible are outdated you are certainly entitled to do so. I am curious about how you pick the parts that are still relevant. Do you just take what believe is currently valid and discard the rest? At any rate I respect your right to believe whatever you want to believe…my point in responding to this thread was never to convince anyone of the validity of the Bible it was to point out what the Bible says about the subject of Christians using AAS. I personally look at exposition from the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts when evaluating the Bible:

Romans
13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Note:
Be subject. This Greek word was used of a soldier’s absolute obedience to his superior officer. Scripture makes one exception to this command: when obedience to civil authority would require disobedience to God’s Word (Ex. 1:17; Dan. 3:16–18; 6:7, 10; Acts 4:19, 20; 5:28, 29). governing authorities. Every position of civil authority without regard to competency, morality, reasonableness, or any other caveat (1 Thess. 4:11, 12; 1 Tim. 2:1, 2; Titus 3:1, 2). there is no authority except from God. Since He alone is the sovereign ruler of the universe (Pss. 62:11; 103:19; 1 Tim. 6:15), He has instituted 4 authorities on earth: 1) the government over all citizens; 2) the church over all believers; 3) the parents over all children; and 4) the masters over all employees. appointed. Human government’s authority derives from and is defined by God. He instituted human government to reward good and to restrain sin in an evil, fallen world.

13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
Note:
resists the ordinance of God. Since all government is God-ordained, disobedience is rebellion against God. judgment. Not God’s judgment, but punishment from the government for breaking the law.
 
good support; i like arguing with you:thumbsup: . it's refreshing to disagree civily with somebody that has a strong opposing opinion.
 
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